69 replies to this topic

[Xenobia]

I would take Wai Lin over Jinx for several reasons:

1) Michelle Yeoh was no overhyped the way Halle Berry was. True, Yeoh hadn't just won an Oscar when she started to play Wai Lin, but I got the vibe that there was an expectation that Berry could do more with Jinx because she was an Oscar calibur actress. She *could* have done that, had she material to work with, which Berry did not.

2) Jinx was not as well defined at Wai Lin was. We never really knew why the Americans were involved, other than the fact that they set Bond up, and lied about Frost's activities with Colonel Moon. At least with Wai Lin, we knew the Chinese were afraid of internal strife and were trying to stop it.

3) Wai Lin and Bond had fun. That bike ride in what I guess is Vietnam, the chase between them in Hamburg, the boat ride to James Bond Island -- those two agents had fun with each other and what they were doing. Bond and Jinx never got to have a fun game of cat and mouse, or some wild chase through some exotic locale. They were either playing (as someone ingeniusly called it) "Me Tarzan, You Jane" or they were trying not to crash a plane. No fun there.

4) Wai Lin got to kick butt. I would have liked to have seen more of Jinx fighting...and that fight between her and Frost was not nearly as cool as it could have been. Jinx's fight scenes were poorly planned. Yes, I know Michelle Yeoh is a professional fighter, and Halle Berry isn't, but Halle was willing to train, and they could have done more between Berry and Pike than what we got.

So just to make it clear...my vote goes to Wai Lin.

-- Xenobia

[kevrichardson]

Look Halle Berry is "overrated" , she is just the "Hot Black Actress" for the moment. She had some things in her favor . A large following , this helped DAD in America. She won a Oscar , well when was the last time the Oscars were give for talent. Angela Bassett gave a superior performance in the "Tina Turner" story. Berry won for let's say "political"reason. Remember all the "confussion" about her role. I feel that she was "originally" to play the villianess . But perhaps Wilson and Broccolli got cold feet. she had already signed a contract and just had her role re-written. This would also explain how Gala Brand became Miranda Frost. Gala Brand was the heroine of the novel "Moonraker". And most Bond fans would not stand for the name of a Fleming creation use for the minor villian. Overhyped , well both Michelle Yeoh and Halle Berry are international box -office draws in their respected countries. In Yeoh's case if might have been more overkill in Asia, than in america or Europe. One would have too look at the box-office of TND in Asia.

[ChrisMarvel2002]

All right let's stop using any kind of racism against Halle Berry. I think
she Is overhyped. As both a Bond,and X-men fan I don't think she really
helped eather film at the box office(when a movie not Bond,or X-Men
makes over a hundred Million dollars at the box office that she Is In
then we can say she has a appeal) yes Halle Is attractive but In X-Men
I liked Anna Paquin,and Famke Janssen better,and In DAD I liked Rosamund Pike better. hell I thought Madonna nearly tied her In sex appeal In DAD,and she only had a cameo. And Jinx was going to be a
villianess originally. It was only when Michelle Yeoh couldn't return as
Wai Lin that Jinx was beefed up to replace Wai Lin. Gale Brand was
probally a secondy Bond Girl that was undercover,and sleeped with Bond,
and was killed by Jinx before Bond discovered that Graves was Sun In the original script. When they beefed up Jinx to replace Wai Lin Brand
was rewritten to become the villianess. Michael WIlson probally had
Puris,and Wade rewrite the script turning Brand Into Frost so they
would not have to hear complets from die hard Bond Fans who read
Moonraker that would not like Brand as a Villianess.

[kevrichardson]

I am not being a RACIST . (It's a little difficult , why you ask ? i am African -American) . Halle Berry was and will all way remain a minor character in DAD. Just read the post on www.mi6.co.uk , now she "has" second thoughts about continuing as "Jinx" after all that "Hype". Yes originally Wai Lin was to reappear in a future Bond . What ever happen , hey who knows. Let's agree on one thing the "Super Bitch", in a Bond movie is overdone. Famke Janssen is very hot , sorry for my sexist outlook. In hindsight Michelle Yeoh is also , i think that the problem the Bond films face is a total lack of a female screenwriter. Remember Johanna Harwood any one ??? In a attempt to "present a femenist perspective ,it would be nice to have a women on the screenwrting team. If you thought that Madonna has "Sex Appeal" that nearly tied Halle Berry . Well then "old boy" western civilization is truly at it's end. Madonna did not look that sexy to me , and i am sure not to Guy Richie neither. Just look at the tailspin his career has taken.

[ChrisMarvel2002]

All right I agree with a lot you said. About Madonna I am not one of her
biggest fans(I prefer Christina Aguilera and Mariah Carey) but she can
at times look hot and she did In DAD(Hated her song though) and personally I don't think Madonna Is too bright(why work In the Entermainment Industy If you don't want your children to watch TV?
She would be nowhere If others took that advice) And let's be honest
Halle Berry only did DAD to help her career. She will not return for a
Jinx film(thank god) anymore than she will do X-Men 3. You are right
that we need a Bond leading lady that Is not a superbitch(Famke,and
Michelle are better than Halle though) I am a white American who can't
stand that lying thief Bush so I don't want others calling me a racist
since I don't prasie Halle Berry(She looked good nude In Swoadfish,and
Monsters Ball,and good In the Bikini In DAD but I am not her biggest fan
although I am a X-Men,and Bond Fan) let's hope that Bond 21 comes out In 2004(without Halle Berry) so Pierce can do two more films as Bond.

[kevrichardson]

I seen one other Halle Berry movie. Personally , if we were the last two(2) humans on earth (i a African-American male) . And all of human life despond upon her and myself "hooking up" . I would have to think about. I gave serious thought as too not seeing this film because of her. Thanks to her she put more "talented" African-American actress out of work. If nudity is her "thing". Hey , any one can take their "breast out for a fee". I missed both "Swoadfish" and "Monster's Ball" . I sat through "Introducting Dorothy Danridge" , one reason was i read the book and i watch some of Danridge's movies (Porgy and Bess , Carmen Jones both from the 1950's) . Hey yeah , homegirl looked hot . But then i am writing post in "defense" of Denise Richards. Who looks even hotter, but then that part of Bond movies all the women look hot. They are are "fantasy women", just look at the names of the forerunners i.e. (Pussy Galore , just think of the number of 6 / 7 year old boy , myself include who asked they father what her name means) . The whole idea behind the posting is for pure fan enjoyment.

[Thunderball8]

I think Jinx was better off accepting the role as villainess. Halle's acting and the Jinx character did seem to fit more the mold of villainess in DAD.

Is it true they re-wrote Jinx simply as an afterthought? That probably explains why some parts of it didn't seem to feel right....

I would want to see Wai Lin again in another Bond film, even if she's played by someone else.....like what happened to Felix Leiter later on....

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Thunderball8
I think Jinx was better off accepting the role as villainess.  Halle's acting and the Jinx character did seem to fit more the mold of villainess in DAD.
Is it true they re-wrote Jinx simply as an afterthought?  That probably explains why some parts of it didn't seem to feel right....
I would want to see Wai Lin again in another Bond film, even if she's played by someone else.....like what happened to Felix Leiter later on....

I firmly believe that "Jinx" was the villianess. It would help to explain some off her actions . Like how the hell , did she just jump into bed with Bond? Also she is the only Bond Girl who does not have any interaction with the "Main Villian". Weird when you think about it. But Halle Berry cost over $4 million dollar. Some one at EON realized that it would not be good box-office if she was the villianess. I feel that the "catfight" Frost had a different end.

[Thunderball8]

Well...Rosamund did seem more like the "expected" Bond girl. The one you expected to have some kind of romantic link with 007.

I liked it how she was supposed to be your average MI-6 agent, wanting to avoid Bond and then getting squeezed in with him in Iceland and finally falling for him....But then, the movie lets us all down when Miranda had to be the bad girl (she didn't seem at home with it either...she had this blank looking expression when Graves revealed the truth to Bond).....

That "western informant" COULD have been Jinx. She was CIA, and they did lose an American operative in Korea after Bond was captured. And like I mentioned elsewhere, she just "pops up" everywhere and nearly kills James with a bomb in Los Organos. That's suspicious behavior.

No offence to Halle...but I really feel a twinge of misgiving at the final result. I was geared towards having a CIA-gone-bad.

I guess my vote to Wai Lin is sort of influenced by the writing that went on behind Jinx. Halle's great, but her character in DAD confused me and lacked substance.

[kevrichardson]

It would have made more sense "dramatically" had they followed the original plan . Remember Colonel Moon (Graves) tell Bond early in the pic , the he "studied " at both Harvard and Oxford. Much later "M" tells Falco about having with held information about both Moon/Graves and Frost were both on the Harvard fencing team. In many way it's makes no sense . It would have work more so ,if "Jinx" and Moon/Graves had been on the Harvard team. You don't pay $ 4 million dollars to some just to be the "Bad Bond Girl" , and the spin-off was just a cover-up. remember EON said the same thing about Michelle Yeoh.