69 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

So you think a comment like "Jinx wasn't classy" is racist?

[Tedley King]

Wai Lin for me, better actress, better script, better scenes, better directed, better played ... I'm not too keen on a Bond girl that is too much like Bond, in that she also struggles with relationships and so on and having Bond to rescue her constantly ... Wai Lin could fend for herself, Jinx struggled to.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by General Koskov
According to the media, the Limeys kiss the Yanks' more than Jinx delivers shoddy lines. They seem especially enthusiastic about selling out their colonies to Americans also, but I guess it doesn't seem so bad looking at it from your cushy palaces and gentlemen's clubs protected by your enforcers of snobbery: the Royal Navy (surmounted by the RAF).

It's an interesting question: Britain, the Greece to America's Rome, or the carpet to America's slippers?

[General Koskov]

I guess, my 'deviant post' was an outburst of opinon that the only thing worse than American World Domination, is Britain forgetting that Canada got the brunt of American and British wars (Loyalists, War of 1812, et cetera) and then, as I said, kissing the Americans' and making Canada look unBritish because we don't (so far).


That said, I am proud of my British heritage, and wish Canada was less separate from the UK. So? I'm schizophrenic!

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by General Koskov
My opinion of Jinx:

she was the most overrated Bond girl ever!

Has Eon got a severe bout of amnesia? Are they so friggin' retarded, and engrossed in CGI, that they can't remember the first Bond girl ever was a British agent, and even by 1954, Gala Brand was Bond's equal. Not to mention--for those Eon employees who are illiterate and could not've known the examples I just gave--we had Paula as the first agent, and then of course XXX was the most famous 'Bond's equal'. So I restate my question: did Berry or Eon actually believe what they were saying when Berry states in interviews, 'we're doing something different with Jinx--she's Bond's equal.'

I agree she was over-hyped and over rated . she was there just to sell tickets .The Oscar win also helped , she has a large fan base world-wide . As a African-American male personally . The women does nothing for me . It was also insulting to Gloria Hendry the first black female in a Bond (LALD 1973) . She never got the hype ,nor made as much money as Berry . Eon has hyped every Bond girl since Barbara Bach as Bond equal . And the only problem is they continue to disappoint. It was a reaction to the women's movement of the later 1970's to move the women for the "bird with the broken wing " jazz . To a female more to Bond equal. The problem is no one at Eon has realized that it's OLD . The film may have worked ,if "Jinx" was the villianness . As originally planned , and Frost (Gala Brand ) the heroine .

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Loomis
So you think a comment like "Jinx wasn't classy" is racist?

No i do not think that a comment , in a fan post should have that much "weight" it was not racist . We are on the brink of world war 3. Which my country will more than likely start over nothing. As i post before i read this one . "You momma" is a commom american expression. Even James Cagney used it in the 1930-40 "yur mutha" . Look americans have destroyed the english language i.e. "weapons of mass destruction" . Just listen to Clinton , Bush , his father . It was not the witty thing to say in a James Bond film. We need the chanel the ghost of Maibaum ,into Purvis and Wade. I am sure he would have come up with some thing better. May be "diamonds aren't for every one" , "you look better in pearls" , " aren't rubies you true birthstone" .

[Loomis]

Fair enough. Not really trying to start an argument with you. As you point out, there are larger issues out there.

[kevrichardson]

all agreed , hay look i was stunned when they casted her. I thought long and hard about skipping this one and catching it on cable TV forget , the DVD . Her screen time was not that painful . Still home girl is not a great screen presence , perhaps that reflexs on the "Romantic Leading Man" . Which is what the gentleman who plays Bond is. I could not see her casted against a Connery or a Dalton . Too intense , too overpowering , i think this is a trend in the films since Moore. Poor old Lazenby had to contend against Dian Riggs of all people. And as much as i love OHMSS ,well he look's "like the deer in the headlights" in some scenes . It fact if i was a "alien from out space", and saw the scene were Bond asks Tracy to marry him I would wonder how the huma species continued , well a school boy on his first date with a female has more assurance than old George . It does out work like the book. It's like could you please give kiss me , i think i may love you . This may also explain the "girl who is Bond's equal" thing . Since the last two real Bond women where Solitaire (Jane Seymore) and Britt Ekland (Mary Goodnight) . Out side of Stacey Sutton (Tanya Roberts ,please don't laugh) ,every one else has been the equal of Bond.

[007luvchild2]

I would prefer Jinx over Wai Lin, because I feel Berry and Brosnan had more of a good chemistry. However, I think the most underrated Bond girl who I consdier to have been Bond equal in the series is Holly Goodhead played by Lois Chiles. I find myself the only person liking her. I know I suppose to respect other people opinion, but I'm only a female (kidding), I didn't like Bach performance in TSWLM. I would have find it more convincing if Caroline Munro was Triple X and Bach was Naomi. In the Moore era I think there was only three Lois Chiles, Caroline Bouquet, and Maud Adams (Octopussy). Though the only thing that bother me about EOn casting Halle Berry was they could have given that role to any Black Actress who weren't as high profile as Berry and would probably would have done a better job. Angela Bassett, I agree would have been perfect, not only that I wanted her to be Storm in X-men movie. She's a surperb actress and I think should have won the Oscar in her role as Tina Turner in "What's Love got to do with it" not just because she was Black, but because she was darn good in that film. Vanessa L Williams could have done just as good as Halle Berry. Sally Richardson (Family Law, Posse, It's a low Down Dirty Shame, and Jungle Fever) would have been perfect. Out of the Brosnan Era, I liked DAD, just for the fact the women didn't nag like the others.

[ChrisMarvel2002]

I prefer Wai Lin over Jinx. I find Michelle Yeoh to be more desiable than
Halle Berry. And I wish Jinx would have been the Villianess she was
Intended to be. She was too hyped,and took attention away from Bond,
and some tried to make It a Halle Berry star verhicle. I hope Jinx doesn't
return for Bond 21 however I would like to see Wai Lin again.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by ChrisMarvel2002
I prefer Wai Lin over Jinx. I find Michelle Yeoh to be more desiable than
Halle Berry. And I wish Jinx would have been the Villianess she was
Intended to be. She was too hyped,and took attention away from Bond,
and some tried to make It a Halle Berry star verhicle. I hope Jinx doesn't
return for Bond 21 however I would like to see Wai Lin again.

I find that both characters , Win Lin and Jinx to be basically the same .Only differance is ethinic . Asian , or African -American. Only a foolish person would find one more desirible than the other. DAD was not a Halle Berry film. It was Brosnan's. She did serve a prepose , and that was for box-office. Whicn enhanced itself more after she won the "Oscar".

[iceberg]

Originally posted by ChrisMarvel2002
And I wish Jinx would have been the Villianess she was
Intended to be.

Do we know this for a fact? No, really, I want to know. I'd heard she Jinx was a villainess, but I thought was deliberate misinformation so that the mystery surrounding the traitor would remain just that.... If she was intended to be the villain, then it had to mean that Miranda was the good Bond girl.

[Jamie007]

Neither. I hate that trailor trash ghetto way that Jinx talks. What happened to the classy Bond girls? I also find her looks overrated.
I dont ike Wai Lin either, she had the charisma of a doorknob. Which isnt rare for a Bond girl, but in this case she didnt have the looks to validate her appearance in the film.
Jim

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Jamie007
Neither. I hate that trailor trash ghetto way that Jinx talks. What happened to the classy Bond girls? I also find her looks overrated.
I dont like Wai Lin either, she had the charisma of a doorknob. Which isnt rare for a Bond girl, but in this case she didnt have the looks to validate her appearance in the film.  
Jim

There are no "trailor" in the "Ghetto" . Only apartments. You should keep you "RACIST" comments to yourself. I guess that Win Lin has the charisma of a DOORKNOB , because she is asian . Nothing wrong with the looks of Halle Berry . Get a damn life. She was chosen , for talent , looks and box-office. Mission complete.

[RITZ]

Wai Lin. She was more subtle than Jinx and a lot craftier - loved the martial arts. Good dialogue and possesed some wit.

I felt Jinx was a too OTT. Clumsy dialogue

[Joyce Carrington]

Originally posted by brendan007
michelle yeoh was much more believable as a secret agent, but jinx is a funner character. as both characters are supposed to be bond equals, i nominate wai lin as the better woman, because she was much more believable as being bonds equal.

I totally agree, Brendan007.
Sidenote: Jinx' humour got a bit irritating. So she was funny, but she actually wasn't funny.

[Jriv71]

The lesser of two evils...Jinx. I thought she, (someone mentioned Rosie Carver earlier,) like Rosie, was given crappy lines. Very over-the-top. She's not necessarily a great actress, but I don't think the script helped her.
Wai-Lin was given good fight scenes, which works in her favor since she's a great martial-artist, but I thought her acting (verbiage) was just awful. Made her really tough to watch. I wanna vomit every time I hear her say "I wuk a-wone!"
Not a huge fan of either role.
Also, not a huge fan of Jamie007 right now. Do you know what year this is?

[kevrichardson]

Look Halle Berry is not a great actress in the Vanessa Redgrave mode. But she has box-office appeal . Which to many of you , might not account for much . Still i doubt that any of you can match what is has done in her profession . Michelle Yeoh also was chosen for box-office since she is one of the biggest female stars in Asia since Angela Mao-Ying. These post border on the sexist and racist.

[Doubleshot]

I prefer Wai Lin. Perhaps the chemistry between her and Brosnan's Bond seemed lacking, but I much prefer the clever dialogue given to her than the trashy lines like "Yo' Mama!" and "Read this... bitch!". Halle Berry is a great actress and one of the most exotic Bond beauties to grace the screen, but her character was poorly written and detracts from the qaulity of an otherwise-great film.

[ChrisMarvel2002]

I too prefer Wai Lin. Michelle Yeoh Is more appealing to me than halle
berry. And I resent them trying to turn DAD Into a Halle Berry Star
vehicle(when see Is In a move not bond,or x-men that makes money
we can discuss weither or not she brings people In)

[Adam]

Originally posted by ChrisMarvel2002
(when see Is In a move not bond,or x-men that makes money
we can discuss weither or not she brings people In)

That's actually a good point

[Doubleshot]

I don't think "X-Men" was ever a star vehicle for Berry. The promise in its marketing campaign was that this famous and much sought-after comic book was finally being made into a movie with well-known actors like Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen. Hugh Jackman, at that time, hadn't made his mark on Hollywood and Halle Berry herself was recovering from the bad press and turmoil of her car wreck. I think in "Die Another Day"'s campaign she was certainly a big name, but in "X-Men", she is merely a player among many well-known names.

[ChrisMarvel2002]

The point I was trying to make Is Halle Berry has never been In a movie
that she brought people In to. I saw X-Men,and DAD because I am a
fan of both. Now swoadfish may have been helped by the press of her
nude scene but It was only a modest hit. Monster's Ball will always be
remembered for her nude scene and not her oscar win. I didn't like how
they tried to put her on equal footing with Pierce In the ad campagin.
This Is his franchise as long as he plays Bond(let's hope Bond 21 comes
out In 2004 so he can do two more films) but Halle Is not proven herself
yet. And X-Men 2 will do good but not because of her(believe me many
X-Men fans don't like her downplaying X-Men,and will not be sorry that
she will not return for X-Men 3) and as a Bond fan I don't want her
back for Bond 21. I would prefer Michelle Yeoh back. And I will not see
any Jinx spin off film.

[Thunderball8]

Wai Lin over Jinx any day.

I think Halle Berry's a great actress but she had the wrong mix for Die Another Day. She's too much of an individual character in that film, leading her own adventure it would seem. Worst of all, Jinx seemed to contribute so little to the conflict diamonds investigation.

If she did, it wasn't apparent.

So there we have Jinx's problem: Not romantically linked to the lead, and not significant to the adventure at hand. In short, Jinx's position in DAD seemed weak...It's almost as if they just had to add her at the last minute.

[Jamie007]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
There are no "trailor" in the "Ghetto" . Only apartments. You should keep you "RACIST" comments to yourself.  I guess that Win Lin has the charisma of a DOORKNOB , because she is asian .  Nothing wrong with the looks of Halle Berry . Get a damn life. She was chosen , for talent , looks and box-office. Mission complete.

Dont call me a racist you ignorant bastard. Where is one racist commment in my post? People like you make me laugh, yeah I dont think Wai Lin has charisma, I must be a racist! I said the exact same thing about Christmas Jones in another thread, so Im racist against white people too huh? Your telling me to get a life? Haha, someone who gets offended if someone else says they dont like some actress is telling me to get a life? The irony of it all.
So the new rule on this message board is that we cannot criticise black or asian actors, only white actors? Now who is the racist.
In fact your post is the most racist thing I have read on this board, I made a post about an ACTRESS, I never mentioned race, YOU did.
I said I dont like trailer trash or ghetto speak, I didnt say anything about race, you did, your post suggests that only blacks talk like that.
Face the fact that others may have different opinions then yourself you arrogant prick, it doesnt make them a racist. In fact go and find some reviews of TND, Im sure you'll find the critics general evaluation of Michelle Yeoh's performance is the same as mine. But I guess they were all racists writing their articles between KKK meetings and cross burnings.
Thats all I have to say on the matter, except that I am shocked by your arrogance, ignorance and racist tendencies. Race never enetered my mind, I was taliking about their acting, you made it about their race. Grow up.

[kevrichardson]

The Venom in your post says it all. What was racist about my post?? What is "Trailor Trash" or "Ghetto Speak" . Since you are from "down under" . And the only contract you have with Americans is from TV. Blacks in general do not speak or talk "Trailor Trash" .

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Jamie007
 ignorant bastard.  The irony of it all.  
So the new rule on this message board is that we cannot criticise black or asian actors, only white actors? Now who is the racist.
In fact your post is the most racist thing I have read.  
I said I dont like trailer trash or ghetto speak, I didnt say anything about race, you did, your post suggests that only blacks talk like that.
Face the fact that others may have different opinions then yourself you arrogant prick, But I guess they were all racists writing their articles between KKK meetings and cross burnings.
Thats all I have to say on the matter, except that I am shocked by your arrogance, ignorance and racist tendencies. Race never enetered my mind, I was taliking about their acting, you made it about their race. Grow up. [/B]

**** you. you are a ****ing NAZI.

[Kristian]

Now, now, kids....

Truth be told, here's how it breaks down:

Jinx: Good concept, but really.... if you're going to set up a character as a female Bond is it necessary for to be the damsel in distress two setpieces in a row? All flash no substance.

Wai Lin: Good concerpt, but really.... if you're going to set up a character as a female Bond is it necessary to let us know little more than that she doesn't have a litttle red book? Too underwritten....

Back to the laptop, hackboys.....

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Kristian
Now, now, kids....
Truth be told, here's how it breaks down:
Jinx:  Good concept, but really.... if you're going to set up a character as a female Bond is it necessary for to be the damsel in distress two setpieces in a row?  All flash no substance.
Wai Lin:  Good concerpt, but really.... if you're going to set up a character as a female Bond is it necessary to let us know little more than that she doesn't have a litttle red book?  Too underwritten....
Back to the laptop, hackboys.....

Well , "damsel in distress" very right. makes no sense!!! Win Lin was underwriten as you said. The problem is no one can equal Bond. so the "female Bond" thing is old . It been around since TSWLM. Let's have a domino or Tracy for Bond 21. Also let establish what Halle Berry really was , SHE WAS THE EYE CANDY. Just look at the dress she wore in the "Ice Palace".

[iceberg]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
Well , "damsel in distress" very right. makes no sense!!!  Win Lin was underwriten as you said. The problem is no one can equal Bond. so the "female Bond" thing is old . It been around since TSWLM. Let's have a domino or Tracy for Bond 21. Also let establish what Halle Berry really was , SHE WAS THE EYE CANDY. Just look at the dress she wore in the "Ice Palace".

I think sexy dresses are par for the course in Bond films. And to a certain degree, all the women -- even the strongest ones like Tracy ad Elektra and Pam Bouvier -- have a certain "eye candy" requirement expected of them.

But I do agree with you that the female bond thing is so OVER. So sick of it. Made even worse by the repeated trumpeting in the media of Jinx as "Finally! A woman to equal Bond! Strong, tough, and independent. Takes care of herself. Is not wimpy." Should have just wrote "s on the first date! Eats fruit during foreplay!"

Excuse me, you idiot journalists (not including you DLN), but have you seen any Bond films, at all. Let me introduce some women to you:

"Idiot journalist, allow me to present Tracy Di Vicenzo, Melina Havelock, Anya Amasova, Pam Bouvier, Natalya Simonova, Wai Lin, Christmas Jones, and Elektra King."

So, yes, no more "A-lister hot property flavor of the month dating Ben Affleck this week" women. And no more female agents until the next decade. More women like Tracy, Natalya, Melina, Pam, Christmas, and Tracy.