133 replies to this topic

[Orion]

Ooooo, mysterious

[Harmsway]

[blueman]

Lol, my horse is low.

[MISALA1994]

I think Knight is too busy, EON should continue with Butterworth...

[rubixcub]

I think Knight is too busy, EON should continue with Butterworth...

 

I would not be in favor.  Between "Black Mass" and "SPECTRE", Butterworth has a tendency to tell rather than show, IMO.

 

Dave

[tdalton]

 

I think Knight is too busy, EON should continue with Butterworth...

 

I would not be in favor.  Between "Black Mass" and "SPECTRE", Butterworth has a tendency to tell rather than show, IMO.

 

Dave

 

 

I'd have to agree.  I'd rather not have anyone involved in the writing of Spectre take a crack at the next one.  If Butterworth is as good as he's made out to be (can't say I know anything about him), then maybe bring him back a bit down the line, let there be a bit of distance between Spectre and his next contribution.

[SecretAgentFan]

As much as I defend P & W, as much as I point out that Haggis, Butterworth and Logan were not as crucial or even good as their reputations compelled people to believe, I would prefer BOND 25 to really start fresh with a writer who loves Bond and does not want to impose his own style or themes.

[MISALA1994]

No more P&W, thanks.

Edited by MISALA1994, 12 November 2016 - 10:14 AM.

[Odd Jobbies]

As much as I defend P & W, as much as I point out that Haggis, Butterworth and Logan were not as crucial or even good as their reputations compelled people to believe, I would prefer BOND 25 to really start fresh with a writer who loves Bond and does not want to impose his own style or themes.

I think i feel the same way about a fresh start. But there's perhaps a debate to be had about a 'good' writer always bringing something unique to the table. Finding a writer with 'a Voice' (such as Knight) is very important imo, but i completely agree that Eon should avoid getting bogged down by weighty melodrama.

 

I imagine it's a hard task for Eon to nail down a writer with both  a great Voice and a light touch.

 

Knight certainly has the Voice and has exhibited a lightness of touch in Eastern Promises and the sublime Dirty Pretty Things. However of late he's been steeped in melodrama (i love Peaky Blinders but it's the epitome of melodrama - dependent upon those long story arcs and emotional entanglements of their melodramatic narratives; it's basically violent, highly stylised soap opera).

 

If instead he could bring the delicate touch of Promises and DPT to the table in the shape of wit and grit instead of tears and slo-mo then his Bond could be a real treat.

 

Looking for another example of a writer that possess both a strong, indelible Voice and a deft, lightness of touch Shane Black comes to mind - Kiss Kiss Bang Bang nails it's weightier moments without straying into melodrama. As does his Iron Man 3, in which he brought grown-up wit to a spandex-movie in the way Pixar and recently The Lego Movie have for kid's animations.

 

But i'm sure there's others out there, if to some readers here Black seems the wrong fit. Personally i don't see him as the right fit, but paradoxically i'd love to see what he'd do with Bond.

 

So far for Craig CR had some deft moments, such as the hotel room scenes with Vesper, particularly the clothed shower in silence. SF had Silva's entrance - a joy to watch; laugh out loud witty at times, but never once realising that essential tension.

 

Lesser Bond writers have been capable of doing little more than making punchlines to scenes, moving from melodrama to broad humour like slapping chocolate icing on an omelette! (with perhaps the exception of Brosnan's first meeting with M and his sauna tussle with Onatopp ("No more foreplay")

 

The likes of Black and Knight (if the latter can tap into the frame of mind that Produced Eastern Promises and DPT many years ago), could in all likelihood produce a script with this kind of author driven high wit-real grit forming the character of the story on every page, rather than islands of idiosyncratic excellence in an otherwise by-the-numbers melodrama/punchline-melodrama/punchline affair.

[SecretAgentFan]

My personal opinion is that for Bond writers and directors who have too much of a personal approach are wrong.  

 

Bond does not need a raw and edgy angle, nor does he need personal melodrama or Shakespearean weight.

 

It is pulp fiction, formula, folks.  And it needs to adhere to its own formula to be everything it needs to be.  Stray too far from that and it will wobble.

 

The last decade was all about personal melodrama and dark, gritty pessimism in popular cinema.  Bond tried this on as well.  Some of it worked, some of it didn´t.  But it seems to have arrived at a point where going back to the same well will be as tired as the earlier escapistic, parodistic tone of the 70´s and early 80´s.

 

To freshen things up Bond needs to be more fun again, IMO.

[Odd Jobbies]

Well said.

 

I think Bond needs to be fun with grown up and clever wit, rather than the broad slap stick of the majority of the output throughout the 70s-90s. I love those movies, but that stuff won't fly now.

 

Making formulaic stuff fresh and witty (as in clever) is a tall order. I mention Black because he's one of the few who achieve it; his scripts for Last Boy Scout, Long Kiss Goodnight and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang are great fun, but smart fun - not lowest common denominator gags that past Bonds have made their meat and potatoes.

 

The truly impressive thing is that while being fun and witty, there's also plenty of grit - a really tough balancing act that black pulls off more often than not. That's exactly what Bond needs.

[Red_Snow]

The same reddit user claims to have more information on Bond 25:

https://www.reddit.c...rn_for_bond_25/

[Harmsway]

The same reddit user claims to have more information on Bond 25:
https://www.reddit.c...rn_for_bond_25/

Well, it's all vague and obvious enough to be made up, but it all sounds plausible.

[Dustin]

It's genuine, has to be. 'No word on release date' is a dead giveaway. This is a pro-insider.

[MISALA1994]

Who want's Mendes or P & W back?

[Dustin]

There are good reasons for starting with a fresh team. And then there are good reasons for keeping the crew on board. Especially Purvis and Wade had to take some heavy flack from fans over the years. But at the moment I wager a large number of just those same fans would be glad if there was to be any kind of progress on Bond whatsoever.

It is fair to assume there may be going on some early preparations, although it seems unlikely these would be going on without reasonable chance a studio is going to make good use of this work within the near future. But when the day comes I imagine a return of Mendes and/or P&W would not be seen as a mistake by many.

[Odd Jobbies]

Who want's Mendes or P & W back?

The former, perhaps. The latter, meh!

[DaveBond21]

 

The same reddit user claims to have more information on Bond 25:
https://www.reddit.c...rn_for_bond_25/

Well, it's all vague and obvious enough to be made up, but it all sounds plausible.

 

 

I agree this sounds plausible, especially the part about Mendes and Craig having an idea (possibly constructed loosely during the filming of SPECTRE) but need a script. And the part about an initial script being thrown out.

 

Interesting to read but not optimistic.

[dtuba]

I'm not clear on this, it says that Mendes and Craig are working on a script idea, but they are also talking to "speculative" directors? Does this mean that Mendes might work on the script but not direct? Would he and Daniel act as producers? I would think if Daniel and Mendes are working on a treatment that would automatically mean Mendes would come back and direct.

 

Personally, I'd rather Mendes not return. I thought SP was mostly a lifeless mess with a few high points, one being Daniel's performance. I really do not want Newman to return. He does not "get" Bond at all in my book.

[SecretAgentFan]

I don´t believe anyone saying "I know people in the industry" and then writing on reddit about his intel.

 

I also don´t think that Mendes actually would sit down with Craig and craft a story.  I would believe however that Mendes does feel the need to exploit a chance to go for the big money again - since even with his status setting up projects these days is tough and landing a hit almost impossible... unless you sign on for an established franchise.

 

So I do believe that Mendes has talked to Craig, telling him his idea for BOND 25, and Craig agreeing to come back if Mendes is on board. 

 

The plausible thing is for EON to now get a writing team to work with Mendes to actually script this idea.  And I would not be surprised if they went to their go-to-guys for that.

[S K Y F A L L]

At least there is a rumor out now... Awesome! I have a hunch they only got themes and a few ideas in mind for Bond 25 and not a plot so to speak. They 'had ideas' for SP during SF so why not again during SP? These inner circle Bond film politics disappoint me though, I don't want to read more headlines again whether Mendes will return or not again while he negotiate a better deal. Someone new I'd welcome. 

[sharpshooter]

Either way, I think Bond 25 will be a long game.

[SecretAgentFan]

Unfortunately, yes.

 

And I suspect that the waiting for BOND 25 might include another impasse and ultimately another re-cast.

 

Unless Craig soon feels the need to do one last film (unlikely) he will not accelerate the process - and therefore EON will not do it either.

 

It´s really ironic: the Craig era will be remembered as the one that brought welcome change and huge box office returns - but also doubts, less movies and uncertainty despite all the legal hurdles that plagued Bond films before have been done away with.

 

I hope that the next actor will love his job so much that he commits to the role without hesitating to do film after film.

[MajorB]

General question: Given the limbo state of the studio situation, would anybody actually be contracted to write anything right now? Without a studio, it's not a "go" project, is it? In which case EON couldn't guarantee to be able to pay anyone, would they? I don't really know, but IIRC, the MGM bankruptcy stalled things because EON couldn't officially move forward until that was resolved. Or is this something different?

[Dustin]

Not sure about the details. From what we know - guess more like - one could technically commission a script for a film about a secret agent and pay for it privately - but it can only be a James Bond script if MGM is on board i.e. if it's Danjaq-commissioned (IIRC, I may well mix that up.)

At the time of the last 'inconvenience' the problem was that MGM could not well commit to a project with substantial funds while its creditors had to write off part of their investment. So the whole machinery had to be put on hold till that was sorted.

[Orion]

EON can hire writers and "script consultants" out of their own pocket, the same way any independant company could, but they can't technically hire a director or actors, for the obvious reason that you need to know exactly when you'd be filming to know what dates to book them for - There are of course ways round that (wave hello to Mendes being hired as "a consultant with an eye to direct" on Skyfall), but until you have confirmed funding and dates to film, writers are the only people than can really be hired.

[SecretAgentFan]

EON can absolutely hire and develop Bond stories and scripts - and that´s what they are in business for.  In fact, MGM and any distributor would be rightfully angry if they said: okay, make BOND 25 happen - and EON said: Oh, we don´t have any idea lying around, we probably should develop something now.

[Shrublands]

Yes, Eon absolutely have the right to commission James Bond scripts, no question about it. 

[Dustin]

Eon by now must have whole warehouses full to the rafters with scripts, treatments, outlines and whatnot. They could probably kick off two other series just with the material they didn't use - not counting non-commissioned stuff which they probably send back unread.

[DaveBond21]

Eon by now must have whole warehouses full to the rafters with scripts, treatments, outlines and whatnot. They could probably kick off two other series just with the material they didn't use - not counting non-commissioned stuff which they probably send back unread.

 

I would guess that Wilson and Broccoli have some ideas that they still want to use in the next two movies at least. Sometimes movie makers and writers talk about having an idea for years and then are finally able to realise them.

 

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