84 replies to this topic

[Hockey Mask]

Just watched Spectre again, after deciding to ignore the critics and nit-pickers (are you there, Jim?)
 
It's a young wine, but it's improving with age.

Drink it up!

[SecretAgentFan]

Let´s see it this way: it´s the only new wine in the cellar for probably two or three more years.

[DaveBond21]

Let´s see it this way: it´s the only new wine in the cellar for probably two or three more years.

 

Sad but true. Skyfall still seems new to me though.

[The Dove]

Is it a good or bad thing that Goldeneye still seems new to me? lol...

[Tiin007]

Is it a good or bad thing that Goldeneye still seems new to me? lol...

 

I think the six year gap (which included the end of the Cold War, major changes behind and in front of the camera for EON, and numerous technological advances) will always make the shift from LTK to GE feel like the official transition from classic Bond to modern Bond. Stylistically and tonally, the series modernized at this point, which is why Bond fans old enough to remember the transition will, I presume, always view GE as new. As for me, I view GE as new in the sense that it was the first Bond movie released in my lifetime, serving as my introduction to the franchise. 

 

Only a larger gap between future Bond movies (with similarly monumental changes, both in the world and in series) could potentially supplant GE in this respect. 

[Surrie]

 

Is it a good or bad thing that Goldeneye still seems new to me? lol...

 

I think the six year gap (which included the end of the Cold War, major changes behind and in front of the camera for EON, and numerous technological advances) will always make the shift from LTK to GE feel like the official transition from classic Bond to modern Bond. Stylistically and tonally, the series modernized at this point, which is why Bond fans old enough to remember the transition will, I presume, always view GE as new. As for me, I view GE as new in the sense that it was the first Bond movie released in my lifetime, serving as my introduction to the franchise. 

 

Only a larger gap between future Bond movies (with similarly monumental changes, both in the world and in series) could potentially supplant GE in this respect. 

 

 

You have perfectly surmised my thoughts on GE. This too was the first Bond film released in my life-time and it will remain my favourite. 

[Tiin007]

It's funny. For YEARS, GE was my favorite film in the franchise by a long shot. It wasn't until I was around 20 that I began to see some of its flaws (most notably pacing issues-- a long stretch of nothingness followed by nonstop action until the end). Whereas the film used to feel different in the sense that there was always something special / sentimental about it (it was my first Bond after all, and I had seen it more times than most of the other films, plus I had always been a big fan of the video game), it now feels different in the sense that something just feels off about it-- as if it doesn't quite fit in with the series as a whole (I partially blame Serra's score for this, but I think it's more than that). Even when compared to Brosnan's other three entries, GE seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. Now I'm not even sure if I'd rank it in my top ten. It went from my favorite film in the franchise to a middle of the road entry. I don't think any other Bond film has shifted that drastically in my rankings. 

[Surrie]

It's funny. For YEARS, GE was my favorite film in the franchise by a long shot. It wasn't until I was around 20 that I began to see some of its flaws (most notably pacing issues-- a long stretch of nothingness followed by nonstop action until the end). Whereas the film used to feel different in the sense that there was always something special / sentimental about it (it was my first Bond after all, and I had seen it more times than most of the other films, plus I had always been a big fan of the video game), it now feels different in the sense that something just feels off about it-- as if it doesn't quite fit in with the series as a whole (I partially blame Serra's score for this, but I think it's more than that). Even when compared to Brosnan's other three entries, GE seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. Now I'm not even sure if I'd rank it in my top ten. It went from my favorite film in the franchise to a middle of the road entry. I don't think any other Bond film has shifted that drastically in my rankings. 

 

For me, it's a shame you feel that way. If I ever feel like that about GE it'll be a sad day. I grew up playing the video game, and I've seen it more times than all the others put together (and that's a lot!). It's sentimental for me too, and I think marks a very important shift in the franchise, historically and production wise too. I can sense Brosnan's enjoyment in playing Bond, and Natalya is the perfect girl to introduce the 90s style Bond women. GE optimizes Bond, for me anyway. 

[Tiin007]

 

It's funny. For YEARS, GE was my favorite film in the franchise by a long shot. It wasn't until I was around 20 that I began to see some of its flaws (most notably pacing issues-- a long stretch of nothingness followed by nonstop action until the end). Whereas the film used to feel different in the sense that there was always something special / sentimental about it (it was my first Bond after all, and I had seen it more times than most of the other films, plus I had always been a big fan of the video game), it now feels different in the sense that something just feels off about it-- as if it doesn't quite fit in with the series as a whole (I partially blame Serra's score for this, but I think it's more than that). Even when compared to Brosnan's other three entries, GE seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. Now I'm not even sure if I'd rank it in my top ten. It went from my favorite film in the franchise to a middle of the road entry. I don't think any other Bond film has shifted that drastically in my rankings. 

 

For me, it's a shame you feel that way. If I ever feel like that about GE it'll be a sad day. I grew up playing the video game, and I've seen it more times than all the others put together (and that's a lot!). It's sentimental for me too, and I think marks a very important shift in the franchise, historically and production wise too. I can sense Brosnan's enjoyment in playing Bond, and Natalya is the perfect girl to introduce the 90s style Bond women. GE optimizes Bond, for me anyway. 

 

 

I agree with you 100% about Natalya, who is still one of my favorites. My ideal Bond girl is one who is smart and capable, yet not exactly "Bond's equal" in the secret agent department. Pussy Galore, Tracy, Octopussy, and Vesper are also favorites of mine for the same reason. 

 

And I'd also give GE credit for having perhaps the best assortment of actors / characters of any film in the franchise (barring Octopussy, perhaps). Trevelyan, Xenia, Ouromov, and Boris make a GREAT ensemble of villains. 

[Surrie]

 

 

It's funny. For YEARS, GE was my favorite film in the franchise by a long shot. It wasn't until I was around 20 that I began to see some of its flaws (most notably pacing issues-- a long stretch of nothingness followed by nonstop action until the end). Whereas the film used to feel different in the sense that there was always something special / sentimental about it (it was my first Bond after all, and I had seen it more times than most of the other films, plus I had always been a big fan of the video game), it now feels different in the sense that something just feels off about it-- as if it doesn't quite fit in with the series as a whole (I partially blame Serra's score for this, but I think it's more than that). Even when compared to Brosnan's other three entries, GE seems to stick out like a sore thumb to me. Now I'm not even sure if I'd rank it in my top ten. It went from my favorite film in the franchise to a middle of the road entry. I don't think any other Bond film has shifted that drastically in my rankings. 

 

For me, it's a shame you feel that way. If I ever feel like that about GE it'll be a sad day. I grew up playing the video game, and I've seen it more times than all the others put together (and that's a lot!). It's sentimental for me too, and I think marks a very important shift in the franchise, historically and production wise too. I can sense Brosnan's enjoyment in playing Bond, and Natalya is the perfect girl to introduce the 90s style Bond women. GE optimizes Bond, for me anyway. 

 

 

I agree with you 100% about Natalya, who is still one of my favorites. My ideal Bond girl is one who is smart and capable, yet not exactly "Bond's equal" in the secret agent department. Pussy Galore, Tracy, Octopussy, and Vesper are also favorites of mine for the same reason. 

 

And I'd also give GE credit for having perhaps the best assortment of actors / characters of any film in the franchise (barring Octopussy, perhaps). Trevelyan, Xenia, Ouromov, and Boris make a GREAT ensemble of villains. 

 

 

Couldn't agree more regarding the villains. Another factor that makes GoldenEye so good is that we see life from the villains perspective as well as the heroes. Something which Craig's era has lacked since CR.

[DaveBond21]

I was 20 when Goldeneye came out and it was the first Bond movie that I'd seen in the cinema for 8 years!! I was just too young to see LTK at the time because of its 15 certificate so didn't get to see it until it premiered on British television, in January 1994.

 

It will always be special for me because in 1992, for example, I really thought the last Bond movie had been made.

 

Fastforward 20 years I hope we don't have the same size gap now.

[byline]

Count me in as one who enjoys SPECTRE. Starting with that long, sustained shot (edited, yes I know, yet the illusion still holds) in Mexico, all the way through to the quiet ending, I like it. There are some spots which are not my favorite moments, like Daniel's clunky delivery on the "Of course, Mr. White!" line, but for me that's a minor quibble. I was afraid the film would not be able to hit a balance of humor with levity, action with character development, but by and large I think they got it right. Also, I wish that Lea Seydoux's Madeleine Swann had been more fully developed. But even with that, I felt that she did a solid job with her character. I will never consider her an equal to Eva Green's Vesper Lynd, but the more I watch Seydoux in this role, the more I appreciate her.

[Surrie]

Seydoux was my favourite part of SPECTRE. I'm not sure many other actresses would have been able to develop the character so well, with so little to work with. 

[sharpshooter]

Eva Green is still the Craig era gold standard for me, however Seydoux would be second place. 

[SecretAgentFan]

Same for me.

[Orion]

Eva Green is still the Craig era gold standard for me, however Seydoux would be second place. 

I'd agree. It's not really a criticism of Seydoux (who is brilliant), it's purely that Vesper, and Green's performance, set a very high bar.

[sharpshooter]

Indeed. I really liked Gemma Arterton. It's just a shame she didn't have more screen time, and that goes for Bernice Marlohe as well. 

[Vauxhall]

Seydoux was my favourite part of SPECTRE. I'm not sure many other actresses would have been able to develop the character so well, with so little to work with. 

 

Still my opinion too. I watched SPECTRE again last week, and Seydoux remains a stand-out performance.

[Surrie]

 

Seydoux was my favourite part of SPECTRE. I'm not sure many other actresses would have been able to develop the character so well, with so little to work with. 

 

Still my opinion too. I watched SPECTRE again last week, and Seydoux remains a stand-out performance.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Watched it again last week and every time she just get's better. 

[sharpshooter]

I think SPECTRE's quieter scenes deliver the goods. Bond going across the lake, sneaking through the house and chatting to White has a great atmosphere. Felt like old school Bond to me. The meteorite at the SPECTRE base obviously evokes Doctor No, and I like the brief chat Bond and Madeleine have when Bond presents her with the gun. I think atmosphere was created quite effectively by Mendes, and this was signposted straight away with the opening tracking shot.

[DaveBond21]

I think SPECTRE's quieter scenes deliver the goods. Bond going across the lake, sneaking through the house and chatting to White has a great atmosphere. Felt like old school Bond to me. 

 

Yes, this is a very effective sequence  - there is something very Bondian about it that other movies can't quite evoke.

[sharpshooter]

Yes, this is a very effective sequence  - there is something very Bondian about it that other movies can't quite evoke.

Even the simple fact Mr White appears again makes it memorable. He goes from being the ultra-confident hitman to the afraid and dying man on the run. 

[Surrie]

 

Yes, this is a very effective sequence  - there is something very Bondian about it that other movies can't quite evoke.

Even the simple fact Mr White appears again makes it memorable. He goes from being the ultra-confident hitman to the afraid and dying man on the run. 

 

 

It's quite a stark contrast actually. White's character has developed tremendously from CR to SP!

[Eskyfall]

My thoughts on SPECTRE are that, while it is solidly number 3 for the Craig era, that is nothing to scoff at. We've gotten 2 of the series' greatest entries in this generation in Casino Royale and Skyfall. SPECTRE falls outside of those 2, but I'd still rank it middle of the pack for the entire Bond canon (sorry Quantum of Solace). SPECTRE certainly has some redeeming qualities such as the Whitehall brigade all being far more fleshed out. Ralph Fiennes is excellent as M and Ben Whishaw continues to show that he is the perfect Quartermaster. The PTS is arguable one of the best, if not, the best in the entire series. The gadgets returning was great as was much of the humor that has been missing from the Craig entries ever since Bond told Le Chiffre how he would die.  However, the film just tried too hard to make the story between Bond and Blofeld personal. There is no reason that they should have brothers. Having Blofeld hate Bond for continuing to ruin Blofeld's plans over the years would have sufficed, IMO. Also, the finale in London is just too much. It feels tacked on, needlessly. I just rewatched the film and found it to be enjoyable, but not the best.

[Surrie]

I'd agree with this summary apart from the Skyfall part. Skyfall is a great movie, but least Bondian IMO. Too much focus on Bond second guessing himself, rather than conveying the arrogance and humour we are so accustomed to. But, that's just me. 

[Eskyfall]

Actually, the fact that Skyfall kind of went against the Bond mold was really what made it stand out to me. We saw how Bond reacts to failing a mission and how he has to prove himself. Though, I am getting tired of everyone asking Bond in every movie why he would choose this line of work.

[Surrie]

I can see you point and do get why the Skyfall tone appealed to many. I just think they have opened a can of worms in terms of "Is Bond good enough?!", and it's plagued the Craig era now. 

[Dustin]

I agree that the motif of Bond being too seasoned/old/worn-out for his task comes at least one film too early in SKYFALL, all the more so since ultimately it leads to nothing. There are some splendid images of Bond adrift and without purpose hanging out on some beach, there is the sequence at headquarters where he's not performing as we could rightfully expect - but all of it dissolves into nothing once Bond is out in the field again.

The death of M on the other hand isn't about Bond not being good enough - it's her punishment for building her career on selling Silva to the opposition; made worse by the fact that her favourite agents tend to have parental issues and see her as a mother figure.

The theme of Bond not being good enough any more could have been used for SPECTRE more effectively since he would have reason to question himself then.

[sharpshooter]

I maintain the whole relevancy issue in Skyfall was commenting on the franchise as a whole given the 50th anniversary. It worked for me. As for Bond's injury being brushed off too soon, I think they did enough. At the end of the day, we want to see our heroes strut their stuff. The big drama moment was on Silva's island. Bond misses the shot and Silva mocks him for it. When all seems lost, Bond comes alive and turns the tables. Bond was always good enough, he just had to find a way to overcome his injury. There's also a small but lovely moment of drama where Bond loses his grip while hanging underneath the elevator. That could have been due to his shoulder pain, too.

[dtuba]

I maintain the whole relevancy issue in Skyfall was commenting on the franchise as a whole given the 50th anniversary. It worked for me. As for Bond's injury being brushed off too soon, I think they did enough. At the end of the day, we want to see our heroes strut their stuff. The big drama moment was on Silva's island. Bond misses the shot and Silva mocks him for it. When all seems lost, Bond comes alive and turns the tables. Bond was always good enough, he just had to find a way to overcome his injury. There's also a small but lovely moment of drama where Bond loses his grip while hanging underneath the elevator. That could have been due to his shoulder pain, too.

I agree with this 100%. Great points.