55 replies to this topic

[Jim]

Don't know about that but the button remains unpushed - and the departing Prime Minister has left others to push the button, so it'll be on their heads if they don't, and on their heads if they do. All very complex.

[Surrie]

Frankly, I have zero idea where all this is going to lead to. I never expected the establishment in the UK to do such a lousy job of relating the benefits of Europe to their electorate. Or to let the opposition get away with an 11.00pm pub version of their vision for the country outside their natural habitat. I lived there for a time in that far away country of the 1980s. Baffling to think some of the people I knew back then now stand before this situation and will have to deal with it. I do not recognise Britain any longer, it definitely has changed in ways I wouldn't have thought possible.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. Leave campaign put forward a romanticised version of the UK that pulled on heartstrings - remain campaign flopped. Remain campaign discussed facts, leave campaign used passion and nostalgia, and a different approach to politics. Leave campaign rode on the wave of fear generated by the tabloid newspapers in this country (one of which is the biggest selling paper in the UK). I do feel like a stranger in my own land, and now faced with a political party, and movement that have won, but without a plan in place to implement. 

[Dustin]

Don't know about that but the button remains unpushed - and the departing Prime Minister has left others to push the button, so it'll be on their heads if they don't, and on their heads if they do. All very complex.

Stalling now is one of the worst options since it doesn't provide stability and confidence. London can now only do two things, push forward and take the consequences. Or announce they will ignore the referendum in the interest of the nation - and take the consequences. No amount of feet dragging is going to make it any easier either way. And it will have an impact on world economy, too. Waiting till October and then maybe sending some kind of letter to Brussels is definitely not a way to contain the damage.

[Jim]

One of the most baffling things is this "take back control" assuming a ) there's a lovely big bag of "control" (whatever that is) that can be neatly packaged up to "take back" and b ) that in such an unlikely event, it was the EU in possession of the bag. That'll be a ) no and b ) no.

[Dustin]

Just so.

[Dustin]

Frankly, I have zero idea where all this is going to lead to. I never expected the establishment in the UK to do such a lousy job of relating the benefits of Europe to their electorate. Or to let the opposition get away with an 11.00pm pub version of their vision for the country outside their natural habitat. I lived there for a time in that far away country of the 1980s. Baffling to think some of the people I knew back then now stand before this situation and will have to deal with it. I do not recognise Britain any longer, it definitely has changed in ways I wouldn't have thought possible.

Couldn't agree with you more. Leave campaign put forward a romanticised version of the UK that pulled on heartstrings - remain campaign flopped. Remain campaign discussed facts, leave campaign used passion and nostalgia, and a different approach to politics. Leave campaign rode on the wave of fear generated by the tabloid newspapers in this country (one of which is the biggest selling paper in the UK). I do feel like a stranger in my own land, and now faced with a political party, and movement that have won, but without a plan in place to implement.

This baffles me the most, did nobody actually have some kind of plan ready for this outcome? By any means, for months it's been said it would be a close call. The least you could expect is a sheet of paper with some thoughts on it how to proceed in case of option out. Evidently no such thing has been prepared, by nobody. This is nothing short but unbelievable.

[SecretAgentFan]

It seems as if nobody really expected this to happen.  Now they drag their feet, maybe hoping that either it can all be overturned or dressed as a trendsetter when other countries opt out, too.

[Dustin]

It may turn out to do even greater damage this way since uncertainty is the worst for all sides. Once decisions are made people can start dealing with them, individuals and the economy as a whole. As long as nobody knows how it's going to go on from here nobody can do much of anything in the way of adapting. This is going to put a huge dent into investments, on top of the impact on most people's lives. One should think somebody in London would start taking the responsibility and try to keep the damage as small as possible. It's not likely anything changes for the better by just ignoring what happened.

[SecretAgentFan]

True.  But maybe someone will take responsibility.  It´s still early, only three days since the referendum.  And I find it encouraging that already more than three millions have mobilised to push for a new referendum and that London´s new mayor is very vocal in stressing the fact that London, as the country´s economic engine, should have more influence on these decisions.

 

Even if this (not binding but unfortunately not easily ignored) referendum should force the brexit, London might negotiate many deals that lessen the impact of this idiocy.

 

The grueling part of all this is the growing hate.  Those that feel encouraged to become violent against immigrants seem to raise their ugly heads with pride now, as reports suggest. And even if the government manages to avoid the worst economic consequences, they still have to deal with the nationalist extremism.  Something that seems to spread like wildfire across the world.

[Surrie]

 

 

Frankly, I have zero idea where all this is going to lead to. I never expected the establishment in the UK to do such a lousy job of relating the benefits of Europe to their electorate. Or to let the opposition get away with an 11.00pm pub version of their vision for the country outside their natural habitat. I lived there for a time in that far away country of the 1980s. Baffling to think some of the people I knew back then now stand before this situation and will have to deal with it. I do not recognise Britain any longer, it definitely has changed in ways I wouldn't have thought possible.

Couldn't agree with you more. Leave campaign put forward a romanticised version of the UK that pulled on heartstrings - remain campaign flopped. Remain campaign discussed facts, leave campaign used passion and nostalgia, and a different approach to politics. Leave campaign rode on the wave of fear generated by the tabloid newspapers in this country (one of which is the biggest selling paper in the UK). I do feel like a stranger in my own land, and now faced with a political party, and movement that have won, but without a plan in place to implement.

This baffles me the most, did nobody actually have some kind of plan ready for this outcome? By any means, for months it's been said it would be a close call. The least you could expect is a sheet of paper with some thoughts on it how to proceed in case of option out. Evidently no such thing has been prepared, by nobody. This is nothing short but unbelievable.

 

 

Unbelievable exactly. Even more so that the leave campaign now claim that the current government should be prepared and have a plan, not them. We are in this situation because of them, and our quickly deteriorating government decided to appease them in the hope it would all just fizzle out. The government underestimated the fear, and casual racism that has been established over the last 2 to 3 years.

 

True.  But maybe someone will take responsibility.  It´s still early, only three days since the referendum.  And I find it encouraging that already more than three millions have mobilised to push for a new referendum and that London´s new mayor is very vocal in stressing the fact that London, as the country´s economic engine, should have more influence on these decisions.

 

Even if this (not binding but unfortunately not easily ignored) referendum should force the brexit, London might negotiate many deals that lessen the impact of this idiocy.

 

The grueling part of all this is the growing hate.  Those that feel encouraged to become violent against immigrants seem to raise their ugly heads with pride now, as reports suggest. And even if the government manages to avoid the worst economic consequences, they still have to deal with the nationalist extremism.  Something that seems to spread like wildfire across the world.

 

If brexit does happen, and a plan is implemented to deal with this, and lessen the impact then it is not the leave campaigners that are prepared to do this. But, they will glad to champion brexit if we clean up their mess and push forward to salvage what is left of democracy. 

[Vauxhall]

[SecretAgentFan]

Makes one want him to come back as Blofeld all the more.

[sharpshooter]

A pissed off warrior Blofeld, played by Waltz, would be a joy to see. He was very much the smug, overconfident type in SPECTRE.

[Surrie]

Hopefully he does return, and exactly how you describe him. Blofeld believed in his smugness that he was better than Bond. Now, he's pissed. 

[sharpshooter]

Hopefully he does return, and exactly how you describe him. Blofeld believed in his smugness that he was better than Bond. Now, he's pissed. 

Yes. He looked content flying away in the helicopter. His demeanor changed on the bridge, when Bond walked away the winner. 

[Dustin]

Like a select number of other institutions it is not, in general, CBn's policy to comment on a certain type of person; their habits, follies, characters - should there actually be any - are thankfully not for us to ponder, nor is their nature a subject of our interest. They exist in a different hemisphere and any contact, however fleetingly, leaves behind the unpleasant feeling of a vaguely soft and sweaty handshake, something one wants to avoid wherever possible. In short, we are largely glad not even to ignore such folk.

However, if one was absolutely pressed for an opinion of a kind, in this particular case one wonders if you could possibly phrase it better than Herr Waltz did.

[Jim]

If he'd performed with that level of ferocity in the film, would have been a marked improvement.

[Dustin]

Definitely!

[Jim]

A moment of reflection upon Boris Johnson now technically having MI6 and GCHQ within his oversight.

 

James Bond's boss. (Yes, I know he's fictional).

 

Boris Johnson. (Yes, I know he's fictional).

 

Can't decide whether it's perversely magnificent, or terrifying.

[Dustin]

It's called Ministry of Silly Talks, no?

From a purely observant perspective it's difficult to see how anything fictional could ever hope to have similar entertainment value as this epic we get to watch for free now. In most other regions of the world this would be material for Amazon Prime or Netflix. I seriously do hope this show comes with 24/7 coverage from Chevening - although I suspect I already know the cliffhanger for the end of season one...

[stromberg]

... although I suspect I already know the cliffhanger for the end of season one...

 

This one?

 

[Dustin]

Spot on!

Only in the Secretary's office with him on the red line talking to either
a ) the President of the USofA,
b ) the head of the European Commission,
c ) the hairdresser he just hired from Paris,
depending how the season develops...

[glidrose]

We are not a politics place - there are plenty of other fora for that - we are first and foremost a Bond place, so consequently our focus isn't on politics and we generally avoid the less savoury side of things, i.e. anything that would threaten to unduly influence the political process in budding young democracies is strictly off limits. From what I gather on the waterholes there is some kind of election-thingy or other going on this year that we will ignore, mainly because

a ) it's none of our business and
b ) at least one person involved would not be fit to be a member of CBn.

Raises the interesting question how many Bond alumni would not be fit to be a member on CBn. Imagine Kingsley Amis and his Bond fan pal Philip Larkin - if they were still alive - on these fora. Amis when he got to drinking - which was most of the time - could be quite a handful. And as for Larkin, well read this article-

http://www.slate.com...n_reviewed.html

-in particular the poem

Prison for strikers,
Bring back the cat,
Kick out the n******,
How about that?

Lazenby is another one who might get into the occasional tiff that requires moderator intervention and cautions.

[Dustin]

Most interesting article, I was only dimly aware of Larkin's unsavoury side.

Of course lots of characters from the past would struggle to fit into our day and age, from Luther to Wagner, from paupers to kings. Small wonder, we see contemporaries fail the same test, though without having the benefit of being born centuries ago and at least theoretically able to draw from history lessons in some form or other...

[Dustin]

Well, next year Fleming would be 110, he was himself raised and educated by people born in the 19th century. It stands to reason he wouldn't recognise our world and would very likely doubt it could have derived from his own. And given his attitude towards modern architecture and city development in general his verdict about London 2018 A.D would perhaps be rather unforgiving.

Such is life.

[Dustin]

I suppose he would also have been very much in favour of joining up with the EU back when the English Patient badly needed it. And I remember a letter-to-the-editor of his about traffic and noise in London, read quite a bit like an early manifesto of the Green party.

Frankly, he was already at odds with the reality of 1964, nobody can expect him connecting with 2017. And in spite what some may tell us about globalisation and immigration, I suspect smart phones and high speed internet uplinks changed our lives much more - and in a more fundamental way - than a barrista with a Polish accent or a competent electrician from Hungary or an actually working plumber from Romania. Though these three surely strike me as a benefit when I compare them to the alternative from the good old days...