388 replies to this topic

[hilly]

I'm a bit bored of the whole Bond backstory thing now.

I really enjoyed Spectre, but I would now like to see the series move towards standalone adventures again. I think that Bond's origins have been explored to death

We obviously have the potential for a recurring villain, so why not have him pop up as an occasional baddie (every other film or so) rather than trying to tie all the elements of the films together every time. Spectre just about managed this, but seemed to be straining at times to knit everything together.

The Craig films have successfully introduced a new timeline and reworked M, Moneypenny and Q. They've done it brilliantly, but I now think it's time to move on

[Harmsway]

I'd like more creativity in the action sequences. There was impressive stuff in SPECTRE but, with the exception of the opening in Mexico City, it all seemed to play out fairly predictably.

Yes.

[coco1997]

I can't see a standalone Craig movie at this point. Before seeing SPECTRE I would've described SKYFALL as Craig's GOLDFINGER, but now that EON has decided to connect every single of Craig's movies together, it would be surprising to see a Craig movie that doesn't share any common story threads with the previous films. Hopefully when all is said and done the "continuity Bond" will be unique to Craig's tenure and future Bond films will be standalone adventures. 

[Professor Pi]

You could argue that Goldfinger was the only truly standalone Bond film for Connery.  TB/YOLT/OHMSS are connected and DN/FRWL to a lesser extent.  The other actors' movies are the only truly standalone adventures, with MR and TMWTGG sort of being 'loose' sequels to their predecessors.  Skyfall still stands on its own in that its story is resolved by the ending.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Very easily. I've chosen not to go see it. I've only been two the theater twice since Quantum of Solace was released seven years ago.

I'll see it probably later this month or the first week of December, but I absolutely refuse to go when films are early in their theatrical runs. I'm not paying $12 a ticket plus another $5+ for a drink only to have to listen to someone talk through the film while another jerk plays with his cell phone for the entire thing. Not worth the time or the effort, especially when the reviews from both critics and Bond fans alike have been abysmal.are

 

I don't blame you. I rarely go to the cinema anymore for the very reasons you stated. The high prices plus the rudeness of other cinema patrons are big deterrents for me. This year, I've only gone to the cinema to see The Man From UNCLE and SPECTRE. I did enjoy seeing SPECTRE in IMAX though. 

[S K Y F A L L]

CRAIG ERA

2018 / BOND 25 : Craig, Harris, Kinnear, Waltz, Batista, Wright ; final film.

 

BOND 7

2022 / BOND 26 : M (Fiennes) but no Q like DN*/LALD/CR, Introduce a new MP (60TH ANNIVERSARY)

2024 / BOND 27 : Q (Whishaw) returns, Introduce a new Felix

2026 / BOND 28 : Introduce a new Charles Robinson ! 

2028 / BOND 29 : Introduce a new Tanner, Re introduce SPECTRE

2030 / BOND 30 : Introduce a new Blofeld

 

BOND 8

2033 / BOND 31 

2035 / BOND 32  

2037 / BOND 33 : 75TH ANNIVERSARY

2039 / BOND 34 

2041 / BOND 35

 

I'm a little back and fourth on this...

Edited by S K Y F A L L, 22 November 2015 - 03:53 AM.

[Surrie]

Right.  Maybe Bond just comes back - and tells no one what happened to Madeleine.  Because that will always remain his secret.  He has set her up with a new identity and given her a new life, something he is unable to have.  But she is the one he really was able to save.  And that is enough for him.

 

Maybe a small scene at the end could be added in which we see Madeleine in her new life, reading about a crises that was averted by Bond (maybe even destroying the Spectre network).  And she knows it was him and it was right to let him go.

 

I really like this idea. The death of someone Bond loves as motivation has been overused now, and I would like Madeleine ride off into the sunset as it were! I'm very much against another reboot (at least for another 15 years!), and I don't like the idea of re-making an older film. Sleeping dogs should be left to lie. 

 

I would want Blofeld back in Bond 25 and his menace explored further - but only if Christoph Waltz was playing him. 

[tdalton]

The death of someone Bond loves as motivation has been overused now,

It has indeed, which is probably why we'll see it as a basis for whatever Bond's personal mission in Bond 25 ends up being, assuming that Craig returns to the role. EON has already shown a willingness to run the rogue and personal elements into the ground since the series returned in 1995, so I could easily see them returning to this theme again.

And, I'm OK with that, as long as it leads to an adaptation of You Only Live Twice. If it doesn't, and we're just treated to a personal story that's personal for the sake of it, then I'm pretty much on board with you and everyone else who is tired of it and wants to see something else.

[Harmsway]

I'd handle it this way:

Spoiler

Kill Madeleine in the PTS, perhaps courtesy of Hinx, then fast-forward a few years.

[Surrie]

I'd handle it this way:

Spoiler

Kill Madeleine in the PTS, perhaps courtesy of Hinx, then fast-forward a few years.

 

For me, that's just too predictable of the Craig era. I would be disappointed if they started Bond 25 like that. 

Edited by Surrie, 16 November 2015 - 07:24 PM.

[Harmsway]

For me, that's just too predictable of the Craig era. I would be disappointed if they started Bond 25 like that.

Well, I don't think the romance us actually interesting enough to pursue further, and you have to do something to raise the stakes in Bond's battle with SPECTRE.

So a flash-forward would be the best way to approach it, getting us past the initial grief period so that we don't get a QOS retread.

[Dustin]

How about if they

Spoiler

just let her disappear, without any explanation? No body, no blood, no trace at all. And none of Bond's adversaries in the least responsible for it.

[Surrie]

 

For me, that's just too predictable of the Craig era. I would be disappointed if they started Bond 25 like that.

Well, I don't think the romance us actually interesting enough to pursue further, and you have to do something to raise the stakes in Bond's battle with SPECTRE.

So a flash-forward would be the best way to approach it, getting us past the initial grief period so that we don't get a QOS retread.

 

 

I don't think they should pursue it any further at all. 

 

How about if they

Spoiler

just let her disappear, without any explanation? No body, no blood, no trace at all. And none of Bond's adversaries in the least responsible for it.

 

That's better. 

[Harmsway]

How about if they

Spoiler

just let her disappear, without any explanation? No body, no blood, no trace at all. And none of Bond's adversaries in the least responsible for it.

I don't think they can. Not if they want to respect what came before.

[Dustin]

Well, I admit it would be a stunt. But I'd rather see them pulling a stunt than a predictable and overused story of revenge again.

[Surrie]

Agreed. In my opinion, predictability in the Craig era would see it come to a disappointing end. 99% of us are all in agreement that we wouldn't want to see another reboot with a new Bond actor, so for Craig to end his time as Bond with something rather different would leave it nicely open for a new actor to pick up the role and add their own spin on at. 

 

Another interesting thought - if they let Swann live, having just driven off into the sunset with Bond not be mentioned again, would be true to most of the past Bond girl endings. That way Swann would be eternalised by the franchise (along with other notable Bond girls) and this would strike some past similarity to the films throughout all actor eras - allowing the franchise to potentially pick up from the old timeline before Craig. 

 

Thoughts? 

[Harmsway]

Well, I admit it would be a stunt. But I'd rather see them pulling a stunt than a predictable and overused story of revenge again.

I wouldn't want a revenge story, necessarily. Hence the flash-forward I recommended, which should allow the story to go other places.

[tdalton]

allowing the franchise to potentially pick up from the old timeline before Craig. 
 
Thoughts?

I think the best way forward for the franchise would be to treat Craig's films as though they happen in their own timeline, completel independent of Dr. No through Die Another Day. Granted, this could be seen as something that's difficult to do due to the incessant tributes, homages, etc to those films that make up a good chunk of screen time during the Craig films. Still, I think that Casino Royale clearly shows us the beginning of Bond's time as a Double-oh, so they should continue on with Bond #7 as though he's following on only from where Craig left off and not from any of the other actors.

[DCI_director]

Im ready for the series to finally get on with stand alone movies. Lets finally get a Bond film where Bond gets his mission from M, gadgets from Q and a little flirting between him and Moneypenny and then he has to go out and stop a serious threat to the country of England. And I do mean a serious threat. Not something involving another country's water supply or a NATO spy list. I dont want to see M,Q and Moneypenny out in the field anymore like its some Mission Impossible movie. Let Bond be a spy again and working alone. No more of Bond's past. That's done and over with. Im also ready for a new director and composer. And I certainly don't want another reboot!

[hoagy]

Surrie --

 

Quite right, and I think the producers are sensitive to the fact that Bond already just recently (films, and years-wise) suffered through the loss of Vesper.  Here's hope Madeleine does not take a swan dive off a cliff, so to speak.

 

By the way -- I found their attraction for each other quite sincere and convincing, and largely on the wonderful Lea Seydoux's facial expressions and eyes.  When she and Bond started embracing in the train car after Mr. Hinx got hung up by his unavoidable attendance at a kegger during the in-motion cargo delivery, there was a moment when Swann looked at Bond, so directly and sincerely it appeared Ms. Seydoux was not acting at all.  She looked right into his eyes, as they paused briefly in their passionate flurry, and smiled barely.  It.  Knocked.  Me.  Out.

[Professor Pi]

Mr. Hinx got hung up by his unavoidable attendance at a kegger during the in-motion cargo delivery,

 

LOL!  Thanks for that, hoagy.

[Surrie]

 

allowing the franchise to potentially pick up from the old timeline before Craig. 
 
Thoughts?

I think the best way forward for the franchise would be to treat Craig's films as though they happen in their own timeline, completel independent of Dr. No through Die Another Day. Granted, this could be seen as something that's difficult to do due to the incessant tributes, homages, etc to those films that make up a good chunk of screen time during the Craig films. Still, I think that Casino Royale clearly shows us the beginning of Bond's time as a Double-oh, so they should continue on with Bond #7 as though he's following on only from where Craig left off and not from any of the other actors.

 

 

In total agreement here tdalton. Craig's films should stand alone in the franchise, and I truly think this decision was made as soon as they decided to do CR. With regards to the homages etc. I am comfortable with these, after all we're still watching the character of James Bond so we can expect tributes to the previous time-line movies. 

 

Surrie --

 

Quite right, and I think the producers are sensitive to the fact that Bond already just recently (films, and years-wise) suffered through the loss of Vesper.  Here's hope Madeleine does not take a swan dive off a cliff, so to speak.

 

By the way -- I found their attraction for each other quite sincere and convincing, and largely on the wonderful Lea Seydoux's facial expressions and eyes.  When she and Bond started embracing in the train car after Mr. Hinx got hung up by his unavoidable attendance at a kegger during the in-motion cargo delivery, there was a moment when Swann looked at Bond, so directly and sincerely it appeared Ms. Seydoux was not acting at all.  She looked right into his eyes, as they paused briefly in their passionate flurry, and smiled barely.  It.  Knocked.  Me.  Out.

 

I really hope Madeleine lives eternally within the franchise now (romantic, I know). Reasons being because the producers have overused the revenge story and Bonds pain to motivate him on. But, mainly because of how Lea Seydoux played Swann's character. She is a brilliant actress, who worked well with Craig and certainly made me believe she had infinite fondness for him.

[sharpshooter]

How about if they

Spoiler

just let her disappear, without any explanation? No body, no blood, no trace at all. And none of Bond's adversaries in the least responsible for it.

Spoiler

I'd keep Madeleine alive, personally. I actually think there's an interesting angle to pursue. How long can James Bond be domesticated? Can he truly give up the life of an assassin or is it engrained into his soul? Perhaps he can move on but he's never given the true chance given the constant enemy intervention. So instead of killing Madeleine, I'd have Bond losing his memory ala YOLT. And at the end, Bond looks into her eyes and doesn't remember who she is - the opposite of SPECTRE's torture. That could be as sad as Swann biting the dust. And it's something different.

[Dustin]

How about if they

Spoiler

just let her disappear, without any explanation? No body, no blood, no trace at all. And none of Bond's adversaries in the least responsible for it.

Spoiler

I'd keep Madeleine alive, personally. I actually think there's an interesting angle to pursue. How long can James Bond be domesticated? Can he truly give up the life of an assassin or is it engrained into his soul? Perhaps he can move on but he's never given the true chance given the constant enemy intervention. So instead of killing Madeleine, I'd have Bond losing his memory ala YOLT. And at the end, Bond looks into her eyes and doesn't remember who she is - the opposite of SPECTRE's torture. That could be as sad as Swann biting the dust. And it's something different.

Good idea there! I was toying with

Spoiler

leaving her alive but let her be blinded in Hinx-manner. I thought we didn't see enough of that monster and was privately hoping he'd show up with Felix at the Rome meeting. The outcome of that would have included some of the fate the literary version of Leiter went through. But Bond losing his memory and not knowing her any more would be doubly sad as that was Oberhauser's aim in the first place.

[Professor Pi]

They could invert the ending of the YOLT novel.  Like Kissy, Madeleine gets pregnant but after an attempt on their lives, she leaves Bond to protect the safety of their child.  "She's smarter than me, she knows how to hide."  Then Bond realizes he must eliminate Blofeld if he's ever to have a normal life and get Swann back.  But, in so doing, he's knocked into his amnesiac state during the castle battle.  Swann hears of his success eliminating their enemy and sends a card or message (ala Gala Brand in the novels.)  At this point, Madeleine leaves to raise her child and makes the choice that she cannot be with Bond, his personal life forever linked to his deathly profession much like her father's.  Even though James is "a good man", too much death grows in his garden like an undertaker's wind sweeping over Jamaican islands. 

 

Bond 25 "The Garden of Death" ends with CraigBond therefore having fulfilled his promise to protect Mr. White's daughter by eliminating Blofeld, only the tragedy is that he doesn't remember this redemption, or the one woman he finally saved.  Bond struggles to remember and pursues this Proustian lead of Madeleine's message only to fall into a trap by SPECTRE, whose new leader, Irma Bunt, seeks revenge using Bond's amnesia to brainwash him in their plot to assassinate M.  Bond 25 ends with "James Bond Will Return" now taking on a foreboding twist.

 

Bond 26 "The Undertaker's Wind" begins with a new Bond actor, changed physically and psychologically at the hands of his enemy, sent to MI6 to carry out the assassination attempt on M.  When the plot is foiled, Bond recovers and is sent on a mission to finally destroy SPECTRE and its new leader once and for all. Having defeated their attempts at Counter-Intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge, and Extortion, James Bond Will Return in Bond 27 "The Property of a Lady" where he is restored/resurrected as secret agent 007 of her majesty, the queen, and future standalone missions, such as Bond 28 "Risico", of which there is much in this business.

 

Meanwhile, somewhere out in the world Madeleine watches her son play in a garden.

[Surrie]

They could invert the ending of the YOLT novel.  Like Kissy, Madeleine gets pregnant but after an attempt on their lives, she leaves Bond to protect the safety of their child.  "She's smarter than me, she knows how to hide."  Then Bond realizes he must eliminate Blofeld if he's ever to have a normal life and get Swann back.  But, in so doing, he's knocked into his amnesiac state during the castle battle.  Swann hears of his success eliminating their enemy and sends a card or message (ala Gala Brand in the novels.)  At this point, Madeleine leaves to raise her child and makes the choice that she cannot be with Bond, his personal life forever linked to his deathly profession much like her father's.  Even though James is "a good man", too much death grows in his garden like an undertaker's wind sweeping over Jamaican islands. 

 

Bond 25 "The Garden of Death" ends with CraigBond therefore having fulfilled his promise to protect Mr. White's daughter by eliminating Blofeld, only the tragedy is that he doesn't remember this redemption, or the one woman he finally saved.  Bond struggles to remember and pursues this Proustian lead of Madeleine's message only to fall into a trap by SPECTRE, whose new leader, Irma Bunt, seeks revenge using Bond's amnesia to brainwash him in their plot to assassinate M.  Bond 25 ends with "James Bond Will Return" now taking on a foreboding twist.

 

Bond 26 "The Undertaker's Wind" begins with a new Bond actor, changed physically and psychologically at the hands of his enemy, sent to MI6 to carry out the assassination attempt on M.  When the plot is foiled, Bond recovers and is sent on a mission to finally destroy SPECTRE and its new leader once and for all. Having defeated their attempts at Counter-Intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge, and Extortion, James Bond Will Return in Bond 27 "The Property of a Lady" where he is restored/resurrected as secret agent 007 of her majesty, the queen, and future standalone missions, such as Bond 28 "Risico", of which there is much in this business.

 

Meanwhile, somewhere out in the world Madeleine watches her son play in a garden.

 

Brilliant! I certainly hope that the producers read these forums for ideas! 

[Professor Pi]

Thanks, Surrie.  If only I could figure out a plot twist to cast Monica Bellucci as Irma ... ("I was the one who sent the message to your lady M to kill my husband so I could be with my true love.  I never called Felix because I didn't need his protection.  It was a trap to kill you.  But you imprisoned my beloved and then strangled my dear Ernst ... ")

 

I will forego all copyright claims if they actually do this story!

[Guy Haines]

I'd suggest one more thing about Madeleine and how we can get around a re-run of what happened to Tracy and Vesper;

She, Madeleine, knows about SPECTRE. Maybe too much about SPECTRE. Which makes her an asset for our side - together with her professional training. She doesn't want Bond's way of life - but she knows he can't really change, and at the same time she'll never be completely safe.

So, they do with her what we're told happened to Tatiana Romanova in the novel FRWL or at least hinted at, and I think mentioned in John Pearson's biography of Bond; a new identity, new location - but no Bond. He can't protect her because even if he wanted to quit the service he can't escape his past - there are villains out there starting with SPECTRE who would form a disorderly queue to get rid of him, and in the process Madeleine might get harmed or even killed - and that without even stopping to think that as Mr. White's daughter she may have been inadvertently privy to information about SPECTRE.

Too bad for Bond - back to being 007 again. But at least Madeleine would still be out there - and, as others have mentioned above, might be pregnant with our man's child, just like Kissy Suzuki once was.

[Surrie]

If I sit in the cinema in 3 or so years time and any of the above mentioned occurs I will think of you!

I'd suggest one more thing about Madeleine and how we can get around a re-run of what happened to Tracy and Vesper;

She, Madeleine, knows about SPECTRE. Maybe too much about SPECTRE. Which makes her an asset for our side - together with her professional training. She doesn't want Bond's way of life - but she knows he can't really change, and at the same time she'll never be completely safe.

So, they do with her what we're told happened to Tatiana Romanova in the novel FRWL or at least hinted at, and I think mentioned in John Pearson's biography of Bond; a new identity, new location - but no Bond. He can't protect her because even if he wanted to quit the service he can't escape his past - there are villains out there starting with SPECTRE who would form a disorderly queue to get rid of him, and in the process Madeleine might get harmed or even killed - and that without even stopping to think that as Mr. White's daughter she may have been inadvertently privy to information about SPECTRE.

Too bad for Bond - back to being 007 again. But at least Madeleine would still be out there - and, as others have mentioned above, might be pregnant with our man's child, just like Kissy Suzuki once was.

 

Very much on board with the idea of Madeleine falling pregnant. Although she won't get her happy ending with Bond, she'll always have a part of him with her... and she doesn't have to die - hooray! 

[Dustin]

I'm strongly suspecting we will not see Bond actually reproduce ever in the films....