108 replies to this topic

[Professor Pi]

Don't think they wanted to reference Quantum of Solace that much.  They did show Greene along with Silva and Le Chiffre when Q analyses the ring.

[Vauxhall]

Don't think they wanted to reference Quantum of Solace that much.  They did show Greene along with Silva and Le Chiffre when Q analyses the ring.

 

Agreed. The film was long enough already without Bond walking past a never-ending selection of photos taken from past movies' publicity stills.

[Krilencu]

Not a loose thread, rather a missed opportunity.

Wouldn't it be nice touch, if MI6 wall of rememberance, in addition to all those SPECTRE film crew members, contained the name of agent Ronson, killed by Patrice in the PTS of Skyfall... 

 

Edited by Krilencu, 10 November 2015 - 04:54 PM.

[Vauxhall]

Or even Silva - as M says in SKYFALL she plans to get his name struck off.

[Dustin]

Come to think of it...it's a pretty hypocritical and dishonest thing if Silva's name was there in the first place. After all he was betrayed to the Chinese by his own handler and then they didn't even have proof of his death.

[Professor Pi]

Not a loose thread, rather a missed opportunity.

Wouldn't it be nice touch, if MI6 wall of rememberance, in addition to all those SPECTRE film crew members, contained the mame of agent Ronson, killed by Patrice in the PTS of Skyfall... 

 

 

I've been perusing the names too, hoping for a touch like that. 

 

Imagine the continuity conspiracy had they thrown in "Alec Trevelyan"!

[deth]

Here's a question:

 

Why did Bond have an official "Q" scene at all... he was grounded at the time, so they wouldn't send him to Q for any reason except to get the chip implanted. However he should have just left directly after that, surely.

[coco1997]

- Why was Dominic Greens's photo omitted from the lot in the holding cells scene within the old MI6 building?

 

Probably because he was the least memorable of the previous three Craig villains and casual moviegoers who loved CR and SKYFALL have all but forgotten about QOS.

[Tiin007]

With the constant mentions of those whom Bond had lost, I'd have appreciated at least one nod towards Mathis. In some ways, Mathis served as a mentor figure to Bond, the older agent passing on what he has learned from his experiences ("you haven't been keeping secrets for as long as I have" and "as one gets older, it becomes more difficult; the heroes and the villains get all mixed up"). Certainly felt like his death had more of an impact on Bond than, say, Silva's.

 

I thought I may have briefly spotted him in the title sequence (although less prominently than Silva or Vesper or M). Am I crazy, or was he there for a brief second? 

[seawolfnyy]

I don't remember if he was, though I don't believe so. A nod to Mathis would've been nice, especially after the hell Bond put him through. Felix even got a name drop, for like no reason since he's supposed to be the section chief of South America, not Italy.

[AMC Hornet]

"My, they do get around..."

[Silva25]

Lets see here:

 

Spoiler

 

-Why couldn't Bond go to MI6, or at least M, with the previous M's last message?  The whole arc for Mallory in SF was proving that he was trustworthy, he even risked his own neck TWICE (once to take a bullet for M and the second to help Bond, Q, and Tanner in their off the books trap for Silva).  Yet here it's back to "you can't trust anyone," which is weird.

 

-I would have liked to see some actual film agents on the memorial wall, for fun easter eggs.  Show us Strangways name, and Alec Trevelyn, Ronson, "Tiago Rodriguez," etc.

 

-The whole Nine Eyes plot was poorly explained.  First of all, not government in the world is ever going to agree to something like that.  Two, I don't get why SPECTRE even needed it since they already have people everywhere and are spying on people.  And third, it doesn't actual say anything interesting about the nature/morality of surveillance.  It basically is like "it's bad, because an evil guy is behind it and it could shut down the 00 program)."  Which isn't "commentary," it's strawman.  And given that this is a franchise centered around people who spy on people, kill them sometimes, and do all kinds of shady things for "the greater good," this idea seems even more out of place.

 

-The Silva connection also didn't work imo.

 

-Madeleine Swann seems to change her mind at the drop of a hat, and it's poorly justified by the narrative.

 

-Etc. 

 

Basically, there were A LOT of holes in this story (not surprising given the script issues that I've heard about).

Edited by Silva25, 10 November 2015 - 06:02 AM.

[Vauxhall]

Here's a question:

Why did Bond have an official "Q" scene at all... he was grounded at the time, so they wouldn't send him to Q for any reason except to get the chip implanted. However he should have just left directly after that, surely.

Omega insisted.

[Silva25]

So we could get more Ben Whishaw, and that's never a bad thing.

[SecretAgentFan]

Lets see here:

 

Spoiler

 

-Why couldn't Bond go to MI6, or at least M, with the previous M's last message?  The whole arc for Mallory in SF was proving that he was trustworthy, he even risked his own neck TWICE (once to take a bullet for M and the second to help Bond, Q, and Tanner in their off the books trap for Silva).  Yet here it's back to "you can't trust anyone," which is weird.

 

-I would have liked to see some actual film agents on the memorial wall, for fun easter eggs.  Show us Strangways name, and Alec Trevelyn, Ronson, "Tiago Rodriguez," etc.

 

-The whole Nine Eyes plot was poorly explained.  First of all, not government in the world is ever going to agree to something like that.  Two, I don't get why SPECTRE even needed it since they already have people everywhere and are spying on people.  And third, it doesn't actual say anything interesting about the nature/morality of surveillance.  It basically is like "it's bad, because an evil guy is behind it and it could shut down the 00 program)."  Which isn't "commentary," it's strawman.  And given that this is a franchise centered around people who spy on people, kill them sometimes, and do all kinds of shady things for "the greater good," this idea seems even more out of place.

 

-The Silva connection also didn't work imo.

 

-Madeleine Swann seems to change her mind at the drop of a hat, and it's poorly justified by the narrative.

 

-Etc. 

 

Basically, there were A LOT of holes in this story (not surprising given the script issues that I've heard about).

 

"No government in the world is ever going to agree with that."?

 

Um, have you been asleep since 9/11?

[stromberg]

 

Lets see here:

 

Spoiler

 

-Why couldn't Bond go to MI6, or at least M, with the previous M's last message?  The whole arc for Mallory in SF was proving that he was trustworthy, he even risked his own neck TWICE (once to take a bullet for M and the second to help Bond, Q, and Tanner in their off the books trap for Silva).  Yet here it's back to "you can't trust anyone," which is weird.

 

-I would have liked to see some actual film agents on the memorial wall, for fun easter eggs.  Show us Strangways name, and Alec Trevelyn, Ronson, "Tiago Rodriguez," etc.

 

-The whole Nine Eyes plot was poorly explained.  First of all, not government in the world is ever going to agree to something like that.  Two, I don't get why SPECTRE even needed it since they already have people everywhere and are spying on people.  And third, it doesn't actual say anything interesting about the nature/morality of surveillance.  It basically is like "it's bad, because an evil guy is behind it and it could shut down the 00 program)."  Which isn't "commentary," it's strawman.  And given that this is a franchise centered around people who spy on people, kill them sometimes, and do all kinds of shady things for "the greater good," this idea seems even more out of place.

 

-The Silva connection also didn't work imo.

 

-Madeleine Swann seems to change her mind at the drop of a hat, and it's poorly justified by the narrative.

 

-Etc. 

 

Basically, there were A LOT of holes in this story (not surprising given the script issues that I've heard about).

 

"No government in the world is ever going to agree with that."?

 

Um, have you been asleep since 9/11?

 

Most obviously. For those who don't know: Nine Eyes does exist. It's just that South Africa isn't part of it:

https://en.wikipedia...ure_enlargement

[Guy Haines]

Not a loose thread, rather a missed opportunity.
Wouldn't it be nice touch, if MI6 wall of rememberance, in addition to all those SPECTRE film crew members, contained the mame of agent Ronson, killed by Patrice in the PTS of Skyfall... 
 

 
I've been perusing the names too, hoping for a touch like that. 
 
Imagine the continuity conspiracy had they thrown in "Alec Trevelyan"!

They missed a trick in the past film references in not including John Strangways and Mary Trueblood, if you think about it.

[Mike00spy]

I have a small collection of minuscule questions:


- Why was Dominic Greens's photo omitted from the lot in the holding cells scene within the old MI6 building?

I have a small collection of minuscule questions:


- Why was Dominic Greens's photo omitted from the lot in the holding cells scene within the old MI6 building?

Greene never really had a psychological impact in Bond. Silva makes sense: he beat Bond by killing M. Le Chiffre makes sense: he literally beat Bond. Plus, he was his first mission and that mission ended with Vesper's death.

[Gobi-1]

Something I just noticed tonight on my third viewing.

 

Is Blofeld in Cape Town, South Africa after the bombing? When Q turns on the tv and shows Bond what's going on in Cape Town the news coverage shows a helicopter flying away. It looks like Blofeld's copter from later in the film during the London climax.

[Vauxhall]

Never noticed that - definitely needs further inspection, but great spot if true!

[Mr. White's Son]

It's strongly indicated that Bond quit. The setup for that moment (the train convo and Madeleine's departure) frames it as Bond leaving that life behind.

Yes, with definite (and deliberate?) echoes of similar moments with Vesper. Mendes says in the Empire interview that Bond quitting is his interpretation, as well.

[Jim]

Lets see here:
 

Spoiler

 
-Why couldn't Bond go to MI6, or at least M, with the previous M's last message?  The whole arc for Mallory in SF was proving that he was trustworthy, he even risked his own neck TWICE (once to take a bullet for M and the second to help Bond, Q, and Tanner in their off the books trap for Silva).  Yet here it's back to "you can't trust anyone," which is weird.
 
-I would have liked to see some actual film agents on the memorial wall, for fun easter eggs.  Show us Strangways name, and Alec Trevelyn, Ronson, "Tiago Rodriguez," etc.
 
-The whole Nine Eyes plot was poorly explained.  First of all, not government in the world is ever going to agree to something like that.  Two, I don't get why SPECTRE even needed it since they already have people everywhere and are spying on people.  And third, it doesn't actual say anything interesting about the nature/morality of surveillance.  It basically is like "it's bad, because an evil guy is behind it and it could shut down the 00 program)."  Which isn't "commentary," it's strawman.  And given that this is a franchise centered around people who spy on people, kill them sometimes, and do all kinds of shady things for "the greater good," this idea seems even more out of place.
 
-The Silva connection also didn't work imo.
 
-Madeleine Swann seems to change her mind at the drop of a hat, and it's poorly justified by the narrative.
 
-Etc. 
 
Basically, there were A LOT of holes in this story (not surprising given the script issues that I've heard about).

 
"No government in the world is ever going to agree with that."?
 
Um, have you been asleep since 9/11?

Most obviously. For those who don't know: Nine Eyes does exist. It's just that South Africa isn't part of it:
https://en.wikipedia...ure_enlargement

Slightly terrifying, that.
I wondered whether it was some sort of reference to the nine brains of an octopus. Might go on thinking that as it's less unpleasant than the reality.

[Wronschien]

[Edit : I hadn't noticed the specific thread, I let this post here but the answers are on the other one]

 

 

There's something suddenly coming back to me about the way Q discovers everything and even more about the ring, he is a tech genius indeed but technology has limits.
What exactly is the link he discovers between all previous villains and Oberhauser ? Especially as Oberhauser is supposed to be dead so he shouldn't (I think) be registered in any IS file, and certainly with no DNA sample !
Q draws a nice little graphic with an octopus and all, but that's not much of an explanation, I don't remember he elaborates much about the nature of the link he finds.
How is there any intel on the ring about all these people ? Is that they all wore the exact same ring and left fingerprints or DNA ? (I really hope not, that would be stupid !) If other rings were discovered on these other fellows surely anyone should have already had a hint they were all connected (and not only through Quantum).

Maybe there is something I missed but as I remember it was just like magic.
I know it's only a plot device so that Bond discovers they were all part of it but still…

Edited by Wronschien, 15 November 2015 - 09:02 AM.

[whaleman]

Why/how did Blofeld's entire complex explode so readily?

How could Bond escape while employing John Rambo style tactics of standing still in the middle of an open yard and picking off enemies who had the high ground? Presumably the enemies had fired a gun at some point prior?

This almost led me to think that Blofeld's plan was for some reason to allow Bond to escape - though I cannot comprehend a reason for this motive.

[Vauxhall]

[Edit : I hadn't noticed the specific thread, I let this post here but the answers are on the other one]

 

 

There's something suddenly coming back to me about the way Q discovers everything and even more about the ring, he is a tech genius indeed but technology has limits.
What exactly is the link he discovers between all previous villains and Oberhauser ? Especially as Oberhauser is supposed to be dead so he shouldn't (I think) be registered in any IS file, and certainly with no DNA sample !
Q draws a nice little graphic with an octopus and all, but that's not much of an explanation, I don't remember he elaborates much about the nature of the link he finds.
How is there any intel on the ring about all these people ? Is that they all wore the exact same ring and left fingerprints or DNA ? (I really hope not, that would be stupid !) If other rings were discovered on these other fellows surely anyone should have already had a hint they were all connected (and not only through Quantum).

Maybe there is something I missed but as I remember it was just like magic.
I know it's only a plot device so that Bond discovers they were all part of it but still…

 

I can answer part of this: the bodies of the dead SPECTRE members from previous films all contained traces of the same rare metal which Sciarra's ring was made of. It's visible briefly on Q's computer screen, and Sam Mendes explained it on the Empire spoiler podcast.

[Wronschien]

Thank you, I can understand that for the previous villains but Oberhauser ? Ah well.

Which reminds me, we don't have much time to see what has to be seen on his screen, and even less time as the octopus detracts attention from anything else.
In the same way, there's the photograph of the crater shown to M that also cuts out too quick I thought.

[Mr. White's Son]

 

Lets see here:

 

Spoiler

 

-Why couldn't Bond go to MI6, or at least M, with the previous M's last message?  The whole arc for Mallory in SF was proving that he was trustworthy, he even risked his own neck TWICE (once to take a bullet for M and the second to help Bond, Q, and Tanner in their off the books trap for Silva).  Yet here it's back to "you can't trust anyone," which is weird.

 

-I would have liked to see some actual film agents on the memorial wall, for fun easter eggs.  Show us Strangways name, and Alec Trevelyn, Ronson, "Tiago Rodriguez," etc.

 

-The whole Nine Eyes plot was poorly explained.  First of all, not government in the world is ever going to agree to something like that.  Two, I don't get why SPECTRE even needed it since they already have people everywhere and are spying on people.  And third, it doesn't actual say anything interesting about the nature/morality of surveillance.  It basically is like "it's bad, because an evil guy is behind it and it could shut down the 00 program)."  Which isn't "commentary," it's strawman.  And given that this is a franchise centered around people who spy on people, kill them sometimes, and do all kinds of shady things for "the greater good," this idea seems even more out of place.

 

-The Silva connection also didn't work imo.

 

-Madeleine Swann seems to change her mind at the drop of a hat, and it's poorly justified by the narrative.

 

-Etc. 

 

Basically, there were A LOT of holes in this story (not surprising given the script issues that I've heard about).

 

"No government in the world is ever going to agree with that."?

 

Um, have you been asleep since 9/11?

 

And about to get even more relevant. 

[sharpshooter]

I know Bond tossed his gun away on the bridge and that Q says that he'd thought Bond had gone, but I still don't think it's necessarily implied that he has left the service. I look at it as him going away on leave with Madeleine and the filmmakers are being purposefully coy about the issue particularly with the possibility of SPECTRE being Daniel Craig's last 007 film (although I believe he will do 1 more) 

I agree. I think Bond's seeing where it goes with Madeleine, if stopping is a good idea for him - ala the conversation on the train. If Craig doesn't return, that's his ending. And if he does, they can elaborate on it. 

[Double-Oh Agent]

Why/how did Blofeld's entire complex explode so readily?

How could Bond escape while employing John Rambo style tactics of standing still in the middle of an open yard and picking off enemies who had the high ground? Presumably the enemies had fired a gun at some point prior?

This almost led me to think that Blofeld's plan was for some reason to allow Bond to escape - though I cannot comprehend a reason for this motive.

I think I mentioned this on another thread, but I believe that the entire complex exploded so readily because Blofeld self-destructed it a la at the end of You Only Live Twice. He did it to destroy evidence, cover his tracks by leaving his fate up in the air, and give him time to escape undetected. It had nothing to do with Bond's actions other than he and Madeleine getting away.

 

Bond escaped the gunmen simply because he is a better shot than they are. Maybe not wholly realistic, but that's the gist of it.

 

And no, Blofeld did not let Bond escape.

[Professor Pi]

Why/how did Blofeld's entire complex explode so readily?

Same construction codes used for Franz Sanchez meditation center and the Hotel De Las Perlunas.

 

How could Bond escape while employing John Rambo style tactics of standing still in the middle of an open yard and picking off enemies who had the high ground? Presumably the enemies had fired a gun at some point prior?

Stormtrooper school of marksmanship.  Or ...

http://www.ew.com/ar.../spectre-ending

 

This almost led me to think that Blofeld's plan was for some reason to allow Bond to escape - though I cannot comprehend a reason for this motive.

"Better than an easily escapable overly elaborate death."  -- Austin Powers

 

When Moneypenny and Q meet M at his dinner, it seemed that would have been an opportunity to have an army attack the crater.  M doesn't out of fear that C watches everything, though why not call Felix and the Americans in at this point?  He was already name dropped.  It seemed here we could have had a big army battle, which EON hasn't given us since 1987.