37 replies to this topic

[SecretAgentFan]

"Tomorrow Never Dies" (re-watch)

 

One of those Bond films I seem to like more the more I watch it.

 

When I saw it for the first time in an advance screening at midnight I was either too tired or too conceited to really enjoy it.  But the relentless action (with very impressive and inventive ideas masterfully pulled off) and the simple plot really turn this film into one of the most fast-paced Bonds of the franchise, and its over-the-top villain is outfitted with a timely and interesting obsession to ground him again.  Sure, this is high concept-Bond and more shameless escapism than "Goldeneye" but I cannot help being constantly entertained.

 

The reportedly difficult shoot with constant script revisions somehow gelled into something that holds the attention, amuses and thrills.

 

And Brosnan once again is a fantastic Bond, tougher than I had remembered, enjoying himself, delivering one-liners with aplomb, convincing in the fight scenes and oozing arrogant self-confidence just as Bond should.

 

Fast food Bond? Well, maybe.  But it´s delicious, and right now, I do rate it even higher than "Goldeneye".

[Call Billy Bob]

Fast food Bond? Well, maybe.  But it´s delicious, and right now, I do rate it even higher than "Goldeneye".

I never thought of it as "fast food," and I wish I thought more highly of it. If it had not immediately followed GoldenEye, I might give it a bit more praise - it is a great film! But the close association with its predecessor brings it down a few notches in my book (If it and TWINE switched places in release order, I might have TND in my top 10!)

[AMC Hornet]

I too prefer it it GE - and I only have praise for GE.

 

The only evidently 'Die Hard'-influenced Bond film is a hoot from start to finish. I especially enjoyed David Arnold's score, for both it's John Barry tributes (White Knight) and his own distinctive style (Back Seat Driver).

 

Sheryl Crowe should have taken a back seat to k. d. lang, though.

[tdalton]

Tomorrow Never Dies had a good premise going for it, but it suffers too much from being just a rather generic action film with some rather obligatory (and extremely obvious) "Bondian" things thrown into the mix:

 

• Over-the-top villain bent on world domination? Check.  
• Red Grant-style henchman? Check.
• Massive overuse of the James Bond Theme? Check.
• Silly gadgets? Check. 
• Copying a previous Bond film's villainous scheme? Check.

I think had they tried to do a serious espionage film centered around a Rupert Murdoch type villain bent on starting WWIII for ratings, that could have been one of, if not the, best entries in the franchise.  Instead, the film tries so hard to be "Bond with a capital 'B'" (what with the never-ending use of the Bond theme) yet still manages to somehow come across as a somewhat generic 1990s action film.  

 

Still, that's not to say that it's not without its merits.  I remember quite enjoying the film in the theater back in 1997, seeing the film on my birthday with my dad (and, amazingly, to a somewhat empty theater as everyone else was there for Titanic), but I can't say that time has been too terribly kind to Tomorrow Never Dies.  Still, it's an infinitely better entry than the two films that would follow it.

[sharpshooter]

I also prefer TND to GE. It's Brosnan's best Bond film in my opinion.

[DaveBond21]

 

I watched them all recently too and with this one, I enjoyed it even though the start and end are very action-oriented.

 

I loved the scenes in Hamburg, especially knocking Gupta's satellite over, Dr Kaufmann, the car chase, every time Bond annoys Carver, the motorbike chase and the drop using the Carver banner.

[David_M]

On first viewing, I liked this one a lot.  It might've helped that I got to see an advance screening with a theater full of Bond fans.  I liked that Brosnan seemed to have relaxed into the role since GE.  In his first film, it felt like he was trying too hard to live up to some perceived image of who Bond is, whereas with this one, he's more like, "Hey, James Bond is ME."

 

I also liked the kinetic nature of the film; everyone's on the move constantly.  Even the "briefing from M" scene happens in a moving vehicle.  I was in the mood for an action film, and that's what I got.

 

In that vein, it's easily the least pretentious of the Brosnan films, and that makes it my favorite.  We're spared the "you're a dinosaur," "boys with toys" and "It's what keeps me alive" dime store psychoanalysis of GE, and the tacked-on angst of TWINE and DAD.  Even the subplot of Paris Carver as "the one who got away" doesn't drag this one down into the "This Time It's Personal....AGAIN" tedium of most latter-day Bonds.  Also, the obligatory "killing joke" is better than most, and apropos for once, as Bond tells Carver, "Give the people what they want!"

 

That said, when I went back for a second viewing (the first Bond I'd done that for since TLD), it wasn't nearly as much fun.  Maybe that's because making a film all-action-all-the-time means that it's only going to completely work the first time you see it.  Plus with the adrenaline turned off, you notice how daft the plot is.

 

Moneypenny's "pumping" joke was really crude in this one, soon to be outdone by the "cunning linguist" line.  Intellectually, I know this is down to the adolescent sensibilities of Purvis and Wade, but I can't help thinking less of Samantha's Moneypenny, anyway.  I can't imagine Lois Maxwell being nearly so tacky and low-class.

 

After two dud musical scores in a row, I was inspired to actually buy the CD of Arnold's TND score.  Last week I pulled it out and listened for the first time in years, and I only made it part way through.  Everything he did sounded the same to me, and this remains the last Bond soundtrack in my collection.

 

All in all, still my favorite Brosnan entry.  

[SecretAgentFan]

Um, Purvis and Wade did not write TND, Bruce Feirstein did.

[David_M]

Good.  Then that's one less thing I can blame on the poor guys.

 

Well, that's not fair, I do kind of like the script for TND, even if I liked it better when it was called YOLT.  And TSWLM.

 

Mostly I just object to the trashy Moneypenny line.  And maybe the "never grew up" line from Bond, which was about as out-of-character as possible.

[Call Billy Bob]

Well, that's not fair, I do kind of like the script for TND, even if I liked it better when it was called YOLT.  And TSWLM.

Though I'll admit the similarities between YOLT and TSWLM/MR, I never saw TND as in the same boat.

[glidrose]

Mostly I just object to the trashy Moneypenny line.  And maybe the "never grew up" line from Bond, which was about as out-of-character as possible.

Bruce Feirstein objected to that line. Apparently Daniel Petrie Jr. wrote it. Feirstein believed strongly that it's precisely because Bond grew up - had to grow up - at such an early age, being an orphan and all.

[David_M]

 

 

Though I'll admit the similarities between YOLT and TSWLM/MR, I never saw TND as in the same boat. 

 

 

I'm thinking Carver's "let's manipulate the world powers into a war for our own ends" gag was lifted from Blofeld and Stromberg, abeit each baddie with different ultimate motives.

 

Also, the "female agent from another country" routine was from TSWLM.  I'm undecided on how well it worked, here.  On the one hand, Wai Lin is more capable than XXX, but on the other hand I never really feel any chemistry between her and Bond.  When they finally go into a kiss at the end, I'm thinking, "Wait, were they supposed to have a romantic connection, there?"

 

 

 

Bruce Feirstein objected to that line. Apparently Daniel Petrie Jr. wrote it. Feirstein believed strongly that it's precisely because Bond grew up - had to grow up - at such an early age, being an orphan and all. 

 

You guys obviously know way more about this period of the series than I do.  Whoever wrote it, it's a shame it got in.

 

Good on Feirstein, though.

[Call Billy Bob]

I'm thinking Carver's "let's manipulate the world powers into a war for our own ends" gag was lifted from Blofeld and Stromberg, abeit each baddie with different ultimate motives.
 
Also, the "female agent from another country" routine was from TSWLM.  I'm undecided on how well it worked, here.  On the one hand, Wai Lin is more capable than XXX, but on the other hand I never really feel any chemistry between her and Bond.  When they finally go into a kiss at the end, I'm thinking, "Wait, were they supposed to have a romantic connection, there?"

See, I never saw the plans as the same. Blofeld and Stromberg want the world for themselves (or, for whoever hired SPECTRE). The end game was to "rule the earth." Carver just wants mass chaos so he can make billions off of it. To me, that's different enough. There's only so many evil villain plots you can do. As Connery says in DN, "World domination. Same old dream."

Good point on the non-chemistry between Bond and Wai Lin. I guess that's why I never made any connection between her and Anya before.

[DaveBond21]

Good.  Then that's one less thing I can blame on the poor guys.

 

Well, that's not fair, I do kind of like the script for TND, even if I liked it better when it was called YOLT.  And TSWLM.

 

Mostly I just object to the trashy Moneypenny line.  And maybe the "never grew up" line from Bond, which was about as out-of-character as possible.

 

That line is not trashy. It's a typically British response.

 

I think you'd find most of us trashy if you think that line is crass!

 

You can say F*** on TV too.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[SecretAgentFan]

The "never growing up at all"-line is, of course, very self-aware, and I understand why people can object to it.

 

I did enjoy it, and it is also connecting to "the boys with toys"-line in GE.

 

But I also enjoy the "cunning linguist"-line, so... maybe that´s just silly me.

[DaveBond21]

By the way, SecretAgentFan, I am still really enjoying your reviews. I'm going to miss them when you finish.

[Jim]

Agreed!

[SecretAgentFan]

Thank you so much, they are only some cryptic, spontaneous and highly subjective remarks born out of fanboyish enthusiasm.  But I´m delighted if these may encourage to freshen up the discussion of the films on these board.

 

If anybody wants to read something really worthwhile, written with intelligence, wit and perspective - download Mr. Stewart´s "007-minute"! 

 

It actually inspired me to look at the films again - so you´re to blame for that, Jim. 

[David_M]

That line is not trashy. It's a typically British response.

 

I think you'd find most of us trashy if you think that line is crass!

 

You can say F*** on TV too.

 

 

 

Oh, I don't doubt lots of Britishers would say just that.  So would a lot of Americans, and probably half of them women.  But there's "British humor" and then there's "British humor." Personally, I'd rather a Bond film aim for Noel Coward than Benny Hill.  You know you're in trouble when you look back on "Keeping the British end up" as comparatively subtle wit.

 

Also, historically there had been a tendency to lay off the sex jokes in front of "M," just for propriety's sake.  I couldn't picture Bond going into "wink, wink, nudge, chortle, chortle" territory during a briefing from M, so I really didn't expect it from Moneypenny, who you kind of associate with professionalism.

 

That said, I will admit to a double-standard, here.  I tolerate all kinds of inanity from Bond that suddenly becomes objectionable when other characters get into the act.  I'm not sure why that is, really.  Also, I admit to taking an immediate dislike to Samantha Bond's Moneypenny in GE, and I never got over it.  Right out of the gate, she hits Bond with a nasty attitude that, on paper, I think was supposed to make her seem "feisty" and "Not your father's Moneypenny." Maybe in some odd way it was even supposed to be "flirty."  But it just came off as abrasive and arrogant, and left me thinking, "Hold on, sister.  What makes you so sure he'd want you anyway, when he's surrounded by women who are actually attractive?"  That "dislike at first sight" no doubt prejudiced me against all her subsequent appearances.

 

I have to say that while I don't like everything about the Craig era (far from it), one thing I really DO appreciate is the absence of incessant locker room humor and the need to throw Bond in bed with a new partner every 15 minutes, after a "seduction" scene that amounts to, basically, "Hello, my name is James Bond.  Let's shag."  

[David_M]

Oh, and you might be able to say "F***" on TV, here, too.

 

The other night I was watching "The Daily Show" and when John Stewart said "Sh**" they bleeped him out, but then the word "A**hole" was uttered twice in five minutes by two different people and it wasn't censored at all.  So who knows what the rules are these days?

[Call Billy Bob]

So who knows what the rules are these days?

Just don't say sh**, pi**, f***, c**t, co**su**er, motherf***** and t**s and you'll be fine! Thanks, George Carlin!

[DaveBond21]

 

That line is not trashy. It's a typically British response.

 

I think you'd find most of us trashy if you think that line is crass!

 

You can say F*** on TV too.

 

 

 

Oh, I don't doubt lots of Britishers would say just that.  So would a lot of Americans, and probably half of them women.  But there's "British humor" and then there's "British humor." Personally, I'd rather a Bond film aim for Noel Coward than Benny Hill.  You know you're in trouble when you look back on "Keeping the British end up" as comparatively subtle wit.

 

Also, historically there had been a tendency to lay off the sex jokes in front of "M," just for propriety's sake.  I couldn't picture Bond going into "wink, wink, nudge, chortle, chortle" territory during a briefing from M, so I really didn't expect it from Moneypenny, who you kind of associate with professionalism.

 

That said, I will admit to a double-standard, here.  I tolerate all kinds of inanity from Bond that suddenly becomes objectionable when other characters get into the act.  I'm not sure why that is, really.  Also, I admit to taking an immediate dislike to Samantha Bond's Moneypenny in GE, and I never got over it.  Right out of the gate, she hits Bond with a nasty attitude that, on paper, I think was supposed to make her seem "feisty" and "Not your father's Moneypenny." Maybe in some odd way it was even supposed to be "flirty."  But it just came off as abrasive and arrogant, and left me thinking, "Hold on, sister.  What makes you so sure he'd want you anyway, when he's surrounded by women who are actually attractive?"  That "dislike at first sight" no doubt prejudiced me against all her subsequent appearances.

 

I have to say that while I don't like everything about the Craig era (far from it), one thing I really DO appreciate is the absence of incessant locker room humor and the need to throw Bond in bed with a new partner every 15 minutes, after a "seduction" scene that amounts to, basically, "Hello, my name is James Bond.  Let's shag."  

 

 

Fair enough. 

[ChickenStu]

Yeah, I'm fond of this one. This was the second one I saw at the cinema after Goldeneye and I was really really into action movies back then. I went and saw this with a friend and I just ATE it up! To this day I still think it probably has the best pre credit title sequence. It was after seeing this one and playing the Goldeneye 007 game that I purchased them all on VHS (and would naturally later upgrade to DVD and Blu Ray).

As a 19 year old kid I LOVED it. Now I'm 37 my opinion on it is that whilst it's no classic it's huge fun and has some great action sequences. Brosnan is in total command of the part here and seems more natural and relaxed (although his tenseness is Goldeneye helped that movie IMO). No probs with this. 

[DaveBond21]

Den of Geek have finally gotten to this one:-

 

http://www.denofgeek...rrow-never-dies

[Hockey Mask]

TND was the first Bond movie I came out of the theater completely disappointed. The entire movie and its components were subpar. It checked every box for what is needed in a Bond film but did nothing very well.

[SecretAgentFan]

Strangely, I was disappointed as well  But the film grew on me with each subsequent viewing.  And now, I do strongly believe it´s the best Brosnan Bond and one of the most entertaining films in the series.

[Pierceuhhh]

For me, this was the first Bond movie not to have any personality. I appreciate the workmanlike competence and it's shot with some flair in spots, which puts it above TWINE, but otherwise this movie curls up and dies as soon as Bond hits the water after the HALO jump and it never recovers.

The blue shirt/boat shoes combo Brosnan wears during the bike chase is the fashion low point of the entire franchise. Awful costuming. Lindy Hemming's departure from the series after CR was a massive boost for me, and I never realised what a negative subconscious influence she had on the movies until Craig started dressing like a grown man in QOS.

Gotz Otto is the unsung MVP for me. The older I get, the more he makes me lol. Vincent Schiavelli is in a league of his own.

[SecretAgentFan]

The blue shirt/boat shoes combo Brosnan wears during the bike chase is the fashion low point of the entire franchise. 

 

You must really like the safari suit.

[Pierceuhhh]

Brosnan looked like a 5 year old at a maritime-themed birthday party. Dreadful! And don't get me started on Jonathan Pryce's collection of boring black tunics!

[SecretAgentFan]

I wish I had looked like that as a 5 year old.  Or rather as a 40 year old.