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SPECTRE's Impact on OHMSS


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#1 Hockey Mask

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 02:54 PM

OHMSS is my favorite Bond movie. I love the cinematography, the music, and the story most of all. Lazenby's performance was more than passable although Connery would have been spectacular.

All that said, if SPECTRE or Bond 25 ends up being a remake of OHMSS and does it better, do you see that impacting how you see OHMSS?

I can't help but think OHMSS will drop in its rankings for me if I can get my fix with SPECTRE.

Hopefully this makes some sense.

#2 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 03:10 PM

I don't think SPECTRE will be a remake/reimagining of OHMSS - we might get some similar imagery but the storyline won't be similar. I don't think they will remake the Tracy plotline. They might tie Vesper's death to the plot though. What I think we're getting is Thunberball with OHMSS visuals.

 

Of course "remakes" are nothing new in the franchise: TSWLM was a "remake" of YOLT which was a "remake" of Dr. No.


Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 06 December 2014 - 03:16 PM.


#3 Trevelyan 006

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 06:50 AM

Nothing will ever replace the original for me.

 

In fact, if this film does end up being a story "remake" of sorts, I'm not sure I'll like it very much at all. There are many different ways they could go as far as reworking the same story. So, all in all, I'm not too worried.



#4 tdalton

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 06:56 AM

I'm hoping that they revisit the Tracy elements of On Her Majesty's Secret Service at some point during this new SPECTRE timeline, as EON really owes it to the material to have it performed in a capable manner.  On Her Majesty's Secret Service could have been, hands down, the best of the Bond films had we gotten even just a decent performance from the lead, but instead the film manages to get the acclaim that it does get due to Rigg and Savalas completely carrying the film on their shoulders.  

 

Craig is the kind of actor that we need in the role to make that material what it should have been in the first place.  I think it would be fantastic if they could get him to agree to stay on through Bond 26 and revisit the Tracy material in Bond 25, setting Bond 26 up to be You Only Live Twice.



#5 007jamesbond

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 07:00 AM

there won't be any remakes but likely influenced used for Bond 25 like material that has yet to be adopted to the movies 



#6 mdileo007

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 06:39 PM

I'm hoping that they revisit the Tracy elements of On Her Majesty's Secret Service at some point during this new SPECTRE timeline, as EON really owes it to the material to have it performed in a capable manner.  On Her Majesty's Secret Service could have been, hands down, the best of the Bond films had we gotten even just a decent performance from the lead, but instead the film manages to get the acclaim that it does get due to Rigg and Savalas completely carrying the film on their shoulders.  

 

Craig is the kind of actor that we need in the role to make that material what it should have been in the first place.  I think it would be fantastic if they could get him to agree to stay on through Bond 26 and revisit the Tracy material in Bond 25, setting Bond 26 up to be You Only Live Twice.

Agreed.  If they are going to revisit the Tracy story, they would be crazy not to do it with Craig.   And it would be great to see the same actor who lost Vesper, lose Tracy as well.  It has more impact as than if they do the story with Craig's successor.



#7 Tiin007

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 07:22 PM

As much as I'd love for them to one day revisit the Tracy storyline (with the proper adaptation of Fleming's You Only Live Twice, of course), I think Bond 25 would be too soon. Vesper was central to the plot of QoS, meaning that we'd only have two Bond films (SF and SP) in between the Vesper and Tracy storylines. Seems a bit redundant to me, even if done differently. The Bond series should not be defined by Bond repeatedly losing "the love of his life." Somehow detracts from his womanizing, in my opinion. In my mind, having the Vesper scenario be the cause of Bond's womanizing makes the most sense, as he refuses to allow himself to get emotionally attached again.

 

If they're going to revisit the Tracy storyline, I'd rather save it for Craig's successor at the earliest- say, Bond 30?



#8 SkyfallCraig

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 07:45 PM

Yeah but we don't really know how much years passed between QOS and Skyfall in this timeline. Could be 5 for what we know.
Plus, Vesper is probably his first love, but we had two films and a 9 years gap, they could easily introduce Tracy in this film, maybe at the end, without being ridondant. It is quite what happens in real world. Or you have a certain time to wait between two love? Bond 30 will be around 2027. A little bit late, don't you think?

Edited by SkyfallCraig, 07 December 2014 - 07:49 PM.


#9 tdalton

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 07:50 PM

As much as I'd love for them to one day revisit the Tracy storyline (with the proper adaptation of Fleming's You Only Live Twice, of course), I think Bond 25 would be too soon. Vesper was central to the plot of QoS, meaning that we'd only have two Bond films (SF and SP) in between the Vesper and Tracy storylines. Seems a bit redundant to me, even if done differently. The Bond series should not be defined by Bond repeatedly losing "the love of his life." Somehow detracts from his womanizing, in my opinion. In my mind, having the Vesper scenario be the cause of Bond's womanizing makes the most sense, as he refuses to allow himself to get emotionally attached again.

 

If they're going to revisit the Tracy storyline, I'd rather save it for Craig's successor at the earliest- say, Bond 30?

 

I'd prefer they wait until the next Bond as well, but I do think that they could get away with it.  There's been a lot of what they've done over the past several films that has been rather redundant (the personal angle, trust issues, etc.), so having another redundant element work its way into the mix wouldn't be the end of the world.



#10 Tiin007

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 07:58 PM

That's precisely why they need to steer clear of this redundancy. I think EON needs to seriously consider the long-term direction they are planning on taking the series. Repeating the tired motifs of trust, betrayal, and revenge may seem enticing at first, but I fear could seriously degrade the series. We need a good combination of some fresh ideas and traditional missions.



#11 tdalton

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 08:18 PM

That's precisely why they need to steer clear of this redundancy. I think EON needs to seriously consider the long-term direction they are planning on taking the series. Repeating the tired motifs of trust, betrayal, and revenge may seem enticing at first, but I fear could seriously degrade the series. We need a good combination of some fresh ideas and traditional missions.

 

I think they've already reached that point, to be honest.  We will now have gone three decades since the last mission that didn't feature some kind of "this time, it's personal" element by the time EON has a chance to stop that trend with Bond 25.  



#12 SkyfallCraig

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 08:23 PM

Yeah, this is a fan view. But don't forget they are in the business to make money. And the big money comes from the not fan. And they like big actors and big stories. Just like Skyfall. So I can see them going with Tracy or everyone else, if this brings them money. Especially once they have to establish a new 007 in the role.
Listen to me: a quick-3-movies arc that had its origin in fleming's Blofeld's arch, than new 007, very big name, and new films

#13 Agent 76

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 10:37 PM

That's precisely why they need to steer clear of this redundancy. I think EON needs to seriously consider the long-term direction they are planning on taking the series. Repeating the tired motifs of trust, betrayal, and revenge may seem enticing at first, but I fear could seriously degrade the series. We need a good combination of some fresh ideas and traditional missions.

hear,hear



#14 tdalton

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 10:50 PM

Well, all I can say is that this is a large portion of the reason that I'm against the return of SPECTRE and Blofeld and all of that in the first place.  And now we know that, from the official synopsis of SPECTRE, that the film is going to be personal yet again.  EON doesn't know how to make a good standalone film anymore, and we're not going to see one until at least Bond 26, sometime probably after the year 2020, which will mean that we'll have had about three and a half decades of Bond films all featuring a "this time, it's personal" bent to it.

 

Now, with all of that said, since they're hellbent on making SPECTRE yet another personal film for Bond, then I think that they need to do it right by having things end up with a faithful adaptation of You Only Live Twice.  If we're going to be forced to sit through more of this "this time it's personal" nonsense, at least use it as an excuse to give us the brilliant unused material from Fleming that we'll probably never get to see on the big screen if they don't take this opportunity to adapt it.



#15 FlemingBond

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:08 PM

I don't mind them giving us a multi-picture arc, the Bond films are one of the few along with Star Wars that can do that because of the guaranteed box office, but yes i'm tired of the 'personal'  storylines. 

I don't think they'll revisit Tracy, but i do wonder if Blofeld's Garden of Death will finally show up.  :P



#16 Tiin007

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:11 PM

If the "personal" angle of SP is related to Vesper (i.e. SPECTRE was behind Quantum the whole time, and this is the connection to Bond's past), then I'd be fine with it, as it doesn't reek of unnecessarily shoehorning in something just to make it personal. And it unites the whole Craig era into a cohesive unit.

 

But having Blofeld be responsible for the deaths of Bond's parents? I really hope not. Too far.



#17 The Shark

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:44 PM

Since I've done my best to wipe both CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE from memory, I'd have no problem with Craig falling and love and losing all. If it anything, it'd be a way of correcting mistakes made last time round. That said, something tells me Mendes didn't return to Bond to remake a 45 year old (and by many, highly regarded) film. He would want something more challenging.



#18 seawolfnyy

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:49 PM

Well, all I can say is that this is a large portion of the reason that I'm against the return of SPECTRE and Blofeld and all of that in the first place.  And now we know that, from the official synopsis of SPECTRE, that the film is going to be personal yet again.  EON doesn't know how to make a good standalone film anymore, and we're not going to see one until at least Bond 26, sometime probably after the year 2020, which will mean that we'll have had about three and a half decades of Bond films all featuring a "this time, it's personal" bent to it.

That's a bit harsh I think. Especially coming off the heels of the most successful Bond film of them all. One that is, in fact, a standalone film. Nor do I see Skyfall as a "this time it's personal" type of story. It actually feels like something a spy agency would do: they screw up, get attacked and have to respond to it. It may have been personal for the villain, which actually was (IMO) a nice break from the hero making it personal.



#19 Tiin007

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:57 PM

I think Bond's need to prove himself capable (and prove the relevancy of the 00-section), his return to his family estate (and parents' graves), and his need to save M's skin ("you're sentimental about him") make Bond's mission in Skyfall QUITE personal.



#20 tdalton

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 12:04 AM

I think Bond's need to prove himself capable (and prove the relevancy of the 00-section), his return to his family estate (and parents' graves), and his need to save M's skin ("you're sentimental about him") make Bond's mission in Skyfall QUITE personal.

 

Agreed 100%.  Skyfall is probably the most personal of the whole lot of Bond films.

 

And, I'd say that I'm not really being overly harsh on EON with regards to Skyfall and not knowing how to make a good standalone film anymore.  For my money, Skyfall isn't a particularly good film and is easily the weakest of Craig's films thus far.  



#21 coco1997

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 03:39 AM

Well, all I can say is that this is a large portion of the reason that I'm against the return of SPECTRE and Blofeld and all of that in the first place.  And now we know that, from the official synopsis of SPECTRE, that the film is going to be personal yet again.  EON doesn't know how to make a good standalone film anymore, and we're not going to see one until at least Bond 26, sometime probably after the year 2020, which will mean that we'll have had about three and a half decades of Bond films all featuring a "this time, it's personal" bent to it.

 

Now, with all of that said, since they're hellbent on making SPECTRE yet another personal film for Bond, then I think that they need to do it right by having things end up with a faithful adaptation of You Only Live Twice.  If we're going to be forced to sit through more of this "this time it's personal" nonsense, at least use it as an excuse to give us the brilliant unused material from Fleming that we'll probably never get to see on the big screen if they don't take this opportunity to adapt it.

I agree with this, t. I don't want a remake of OHMSS and I can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would. The last three Bond films proved that the right writers can still come up with original stories that don't lean too heavily on the classic films. I would much rather be impressed by Logan, Purvis and Wade coming up with a completely new story on the emotional level of OHMSS but which doesn't involve Craig's Bond losing his heart to a woman again. That already happened with Vesper. 

However, I would love to see a faithful adaptation of Fleming's "YOLT" using untapped ideas such as the Garden of Death, Doctor Shatterhand, a return to Japan, etc. Maybe even combine the plot of Bond 25 (assuming it is, in fact, at least loosely based on Fleming's "YOLT") with the opening of Fleming's  "TMWTGG" by including a brainwashed Bond's failed assassination attempt on Fiennes' M. 



#22 007jamesbond

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 03:56 AM

There is zero evidence that spectre is yet another personal mission just because a message from the past is sent......come on every connery movie was personal direct and indirectly.......Dr. NO quarrel death GF Tiff FRWL Bray 



#23 sharpshooter

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 03:58 AM

Since I've done my best to wipe both CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE from memory

Someone not liking QoS isn't really a surprise, but you aren't a fan of Casino Royale, Shark?



#24 The Shark

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 04:21 AM

 

Since I've done my best to wipe both CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE from memory

 

Someone not liking QoS isn't really a surprise, but you aren't a fan of Casino Royale, Shark?

 

Nope. Never have been either.



#25 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 05:14 AM

There is zero evidence that spectre is yet another personal mission just because a message from the past is sent......come on every connery movie was personal direct and indirectly.......Dr. NO quarrel death GF Tiff FRWL Bray 

Hear, hear! Bond has a beef with Mr. White, that's the connection. I don't buy the idea of Blofeld being responsible of Bond's parents death - how old would Ernst have been then when it happened? 15? 16? Criminal mastermind or not, that's quite young to be a double murderer, besides what would've been the motivation? Illicit relationship with Monique Delacroix?


Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 08 December 2014 - 05:14 AM.


#26 Guy Haines

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 07:14 AM

The plot idea of Blofeld being responsible for the deaths of Bond's parents could work - just. There's a twelve year age gap between the actor playing Bond and the one we assume is playing Blofeld, so if those ages are set in place, or Christoph Waltz is playing someone older and Bond lost his parents just before his teens, then Blofeld would have been in his twenties - and we are told in the book Thunderball that Blofeld became a criminal almost from starting work after university. Did he kill Hannes Oberhauser, and Mr & Mrs Bond for some reason. (Nazi gold, for example?)

 

So, it could just about work, but as I've commented elsewhere on this site, it seems too much like the origins of the feud between The Joker and Batman. I'm beginning to think the message from Bond's past either has something to do with Vesper Lynd, or Oberhauser alone - or since we know he's now in it, Mr. White. A neat reversal of that mobile phone call - "Mr. Bond, we need to talk." ?

 

(Just going back to the "age gap" - Javier Bardem is, I think, one year younger than Daniel Craig, yet he played an agent who was M's favourite from 1986 to 1997. Going by his own age, that means Bardem's Silva started working for Station Hong Kong at age 17. Possible, I suppose for a computer whiz, but I think he was clearly playing a character older than Bond, imho.)



#27 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 07:51 AM

I think Blofeld being responsible of Hannes Oberhauser's death is more probable than Bond's parents - besides that would be much closer to Fleming. The other scenario reeks too much like soap opera or some infantile comic book. 


Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 08 December 2014 - 07:55 AM.


#28 sharpshooter

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 07:54 AM

I agree. Still impacting Bond personally, if that's what they want, but not so directly.



#29 Shrublands

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 10:26 AM

Since I've done my best to wipe both CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE from memory, I'd have no problem with Craig falling and love and losing all. If it anything, it'd be a way of correcting mistakes made last time round. That said, something tells me Mendes didn't return to Bond to remake a 45 year old (and by many, highly regarded) film. He would want something more challenging.

 

My theory is that we are not looking at a remake as such, but a film that takes characters and situations from Bond lore and places them in a fresh storyline.

Looking at what Mendes and John Logan cooked up with Penny Dreadful, I can see an approach like this appealing to them. 



#30 Harmsway

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 12:07 PM

I think Blofeld being responsible of Hannes Oberhauser's death is more probable than Bond's parents - besides that would be much closer to Fleming. The other scenario reeks too much like soap opera or some infantile comic book.

Yeah, Mendes showed a lot of restraint with that material in Skyfall. I don't think he'd support such a narrative maneuver here. The Oberhauser connection is already personal enough (definitely brings in the "father figure" aspect), and, with Quantum back, I'm guessing Vesper gets a nod, too.

Still, it's hard to get a fix on the shape of this story when we know so little about it. Why are Mexico City, Rome, and Morocco involved? What roles do the Bond girls have this time out?