70 replies to this topic

[Hansen]

With the announcement of Purvis and Wade taking over Logan, I have vivid discussions about plotholes in Skyfall, which I think are huge and not respectful of the BOnd character as we know it.

I would be happy if you could help me to list them.

Key ones I see are the following :

- The list of undercover agents that is totally forgotten at mid-film

- Behaviour of Bond after being shot. Getting drunk on some godforsaken beach (b*tch ?) whereas he should report (he is a top 00. He should know the risk and should definitely have accepted them)

- Scene of the yacht. I still do not know how he get caught after sneaking him and how easily he accept that, when he was suppose to help Severine.

- Death of severine. A climax that it is absolutely not used going further

- Stupidity of Q plug in Silva PC in the system

- The metro explosion that seems to come from nowhere.

- And of course the stupidest idea of all of taking M to Skyfall and unsuccessfully trying to protect her with Home-Alone tricks and an elderly sidekick instead of taking her to a high security blockhaus.

Any others you could think to add ?

[DamnCoffee]

None of these are plot holes but one. They're just the cause of not fully understanding the film. 

 

1. The list was used to bring Bond to Silva, Silva was captured, and the MI6 mentions that the list is in their hands. 

2. Bond is a broken man. His shooting made him turn to drink and drugs. He's depressed. It probably happens to people after they've been shot. 

3. Does it matter? He's getting taken to Silva anyway. Why would he resist?

4. Severine's death was great. Bonds victory was getting Silva brought into custody. It was a nice moment. 

5.  It's more of a character default than a plot hole. Q is learning. 

6. Okay, I give you this one. Most of Silvas plan in London relies a lot on coincidence, but it doesn't bother me. It's a great set piece. 

7. One of the best action sequences in the past 10 years. It's mean to be a deliberate nod back to the 60's. Bond is completely away from technology. That's the point. 

[Colossus]

The train popping out of nowhere was the what thhhhhe moment that stuck out most. I found the reverse-lair of the finale to be unique even though the soap opera ending afterward was blah.

[MkB]

4. Severine's death was great. 

 

I'm sure she would beg to disagree.

 

5.  It's more of a character default than a plot hole. Q is learning. 

 

I would like to insist on how unsettling and disagreeable this habit of screenwriters is, to be totally oblivious of the basic facts of IT. I'm sure that a "general audience" is oblivious too, but screenwriters should keep in mind that nowadays a growing part of this "general audience" is familiar with geeky IT things. 

Such absurd writing makes us groan, and makes suspension of disbelief a lot harder to us. 

 

More generally, Skyfall has plotholes like any Bond films, but what annoys me most is that Mendes did with a lot of care and talent a film with which I disagree. 

[Professor Pi]

If it were realistic IT, we'd be waiting five minutes for the darn thing to load.  No one wants to sit through that!

 

Though I'd add the MI6 office gas leak to the list of plot holes. 

 

Skyfall's strength is in telling the story metaphorically, not realistically.

[MkB]

If it were realistic IT, we'd be waiting five minutes for the darn thing to load.  No one wants to sit through that!

 

Though I'd add the MI6 office gas leak to the list of plot holes. 

 

Skyfall's strength is in telling the story metaphorically, not realistically.

 

I still don't see any need for absurd writing when it could easily be avoided. It's a film, not a play, so the film-maker's job is to reduce to a minimum the necessary amount of suspension of disbelief. If a film is supposed to be set in Paris with a boat chase on the Seine, but you can see Big Ben in the background and it's clearly the River Thames, won't you groan and be upset at the clumsiness of this film? IT-aware people feel the same when an alleged computer securiy expert plugs an infected laptop directly on the main network of his institution, or when code-breaking is presented in the absurd light it is when Bond "cracks" the Tube code, etc. It's an unwelcome distraction for us. 

[Guy Haines]

A few points.  The stolen "agent list" isn't forgotten mid film - by then it's done its job, which is to lead MI6 and Bond in particular to Silva to allow the latter to be captured and put his assassination plan in place. Up until then it's part and parcel, right down to the BBC News broadcasting the death of an MI6 agent on the list.

 

Getting on that yacht - Bond tends to be good at that sort of thing, he's a trained agent, and its not the first time in the films he's gone from one place to another with no linking scene. (In TMWTGG, Bond goes from an agent in shirtsleeves who's dropped his gun, to a "dummy" in suit, collar and tie who suddenly turns round and shoots the villain. How did he get there? We aren't told.)

 

Severine's death is a shocker, and Bond could have done more to help. Admittedly, she's no angel, setting up a man to be assassinated by Patrice. But more could have been done for her. (A bigger plot hole is how Silva could have planned that 1. fragments of a bullet in Bond would lead him to Patrice, 2. that Bond would catch up with Patrice, 3. that in the event of Patrice being killed rather than questioned Bond would know where to go next - the Macao casino. Then again Silva's plan didn't bank on Bond being shot by his own side.)

 

Q plugging into Silva's laptop. All those warnings about computer bugs and viruses ignored! Silva was clearly banking on Q's curiosity getting the better of him.

 

The London scenes - what I found curious is how Silva would know that M was appearing before the enquiry, and all that followed depended on it.

 

The showdown at Skyfall - I liked the idea of the villains attacking Bond's HQ rather than the usual order of things. That said, heading up there expecting to find the gun cupboard fully stocked and not having backup probably wasn't a good idea. One plot problem which, as I recall, a Member of Parliament who had seen the film pointed out was that, having deliberately  put the head of MI6 in harms way, Bond would be up on a disciplinary and be lucky not to be sacked or worse.

 

Finally, Bond's drink problem and going AWOL. It's not being disrespectful to Fleming's creation, it's "character development". Ian Fleming himself, in his last two novels had Bond go far from what we expected - "hitting the bottle" and being on the verge of a breakdown following Tracy's death, losing his memory, then returning to London as a brainwashed assassin. I think there were hints, in the pre title credits before he got shot, of tension between M and Bond. It looks like being (accidentally) shot did it for him, and only by watching TV in a drunken haze did Bond come to his senses. Now there's a bit of a plot hole - Bond only finds out about MI6 being blown up by chance through 24 hour rolling news?

 

I should add - none of the above ruined my thoroughly enjoying the film!

[saint mark]

With the announcement of Purvis and Wade taking over Logan, I have vivid discussions about plotholes in Skyfall, which I think are huge and not respectful of the BOnd character as we know it.

I would be happy if you could help me to list them.

Key ones I see are the following :

- The list of undercover agents that is totally forgotten at mid-film

- Behaviour of Bond after being shot. Getting drunk on some godforsaken beach (b*tch ?) whereas he should report (he is a top 00. He should know the risk and should definitely have accepted them)

- Scene of the yacht. I still do not know how he get caught after sneaking him and how easily he accept that, when he was suppose to help Severine.

- Death of severine. A climax that it is absolutely not used going further

- Stupidity of Q plug in Silva PC in the system

- The metro explosion that seems to come from nowhere.

- And of course the stupidest idea of all of taking M to Skyfall and unsuccessfully trying to protect her with Home-Alone tricks and an elderly sidekick instead of taking her to a high security blockhaus.

Any others you could think to add ?

-The lists theft is solved according to M, and we are left in the dark how this is as most of us know that anything on the internet will never get off. Not a plot hole but a serious suspense of disbelieve.

- For me the plothole is how a man can get shot twice falls of a train, the man being a member of the Intelligence service, dissapears and then appears to be recovered/healed without the help of anybody who gets mentioned?? His behavior on that beach is Fleming worthy as Dr Moloney from the books would attest to. He then travels back to London and is able to infiltrate the home of the boss of MI6 just after having  an attempt on her life. Bond is also the invisible man? or any protection of MI6 is totally worthless.

- Bonds infiltration of the yacht is his work and the death of Severine is a risk of his job, even if I disliked his quip about her death.

- the plug in was deadly stupid but part of the plot to let Silva escape.

- The metro explosion was part of Silva's plot to drag away policemen to the site of accident and make the appearance of strange and unknown policemen plausible when he would attack M. How he would able to arrange all this would aquire a fairly good medium, so yeas a plothole that would explain as easily as the construction of Drax's spacestation (but then again space stations are cool!)

- Dragging M to Skyfall without any protection is indeed the stupidest idea the franchise had so far, but Mendes tried to make it look cool, in which he failed imho.

 

Mendes and Craig made a movie based upon what would look nice and have the rest rest be defended by goobledigook and fanboys. AN EXERCISE IN STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE in my humble opinion.

[Dustin]

AN EXERCISE IN STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE in my humble opinion.

 

 

Not exactly a privilege of Skyfall alone...

 

[saint mark]

 

AN EXERCISE IN STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE in my humble opinion.

 

 

Not exactly a privilege of Skyfall alone...o

 

But when talking SF plotholes it is one of the major  factors why this movie is so disappointing.

 

Boyles Olympic little movie was perhaps the only perfect product that DC has delivered.

 

SO I would trade Mendes in for Boyle under a nano-second.

Edited by saint mark, 30 June 2014 - 02:43 PM.

[Dustin]

Phew, legit. Though I have to admit I didn't feel a need to watch Skyfall over and over again, I still felt entertained sufficiently enough by the romp. But I wouldn't exactly have moved heaven and hell just to get the same team at it again, that's probably more to do with the overall hype that Skyfall started with the general audience.

But as Bond films go I still suppose Mendes is amongst the more promising directors. Perhaps that's the crucial point with many critics of Skyfall whom I know personally to be amongst the more level-headed and - for lack of a better word - 'intellectual' fans: with the names that produced the last film one automatically tended to raise one's expectations of the product. While the final result still was found lacking...

Trade Mendes for Boyle? Well, I don't know, perhaps that would lead to even higher expectations, doubtlessly bound to lead to even greater disappointment. And frankly, that little Olympic finger exercise was nifty, but hardly an indicator of what a full-length feature would have to be.

[jamie00007]

-The lists theft is solved according to M, and we are left in the dark how this is as most of us know that anything on the internet will never get off. Not a plot hole but a serious suspense of disbelieve.

 

Silva didnt leak the whole list, only a couple of names.  She means its been solved by stopping any more names being released.

 

He then travels back to London and is able to infiltrate the home of the boss of MI6 just after having  an attempt on her life. Bond is also the invisible man? or any protection of MI6 is totally worthless.

 

He's James Bond. Surely we expect him to be able to do something like that? Craig's Bond having a way of sneaking into M's private quarters has now also become something of a running gag.

 

- Dragging M to Skyfall without any protection is indeed the stupidest idea the franchise had so far, but Mendes tried to make it look cool, in which he failed imho

 

The idea was that Silva is able to use all of MI6's technology against them, so Bond needed to get her to a place where technology was taken out of the equation to even the odds. An unrealistic scenario but the stupidest in the franchise? More so than Bond mentally giving himself a heart attack to escape MI6? More than turning Bond into a Japanese man for no reason? Dumber than Jaws falling in love, turning good and saving the day? I think you exaggerate.

 

 

Mendes and Craig made a movie based upon what would look nice and have the rest rest be defended by goobledigook and fanboys. AN EXERCISE IN STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE in my humble opinion.

 

Style over substance in a Bond movie? Good heavens, whatever next.

[saint mark]

 

-The lists theft is solved according to M, and we are left in the dark how this is as most of us know that anything on the internet will never get off. Not a plot hole but a serious suspense of disbelieve.

 

Silva didnt leak the whole list, only a couple of names.  She means its been solved by stopping any more names being released.

 

Anyhow considering its importance they caught the crook and left most of the lists issue for what it was, somewhat poor imho. But it was hardly worth getting worked up about it as it belonged to a larger plan to get captured and confront M and then kill her. As said before Silva must have had a very decent medium in his services.

 

He then travels back to London and is able to infiltrate the home of the boss of MI6 just after having  an attempt on her life. Bond is also the invisible man? or any protection of MI6 is totally worthless.

 

He's James Bond. Surely we expect him to be able to do something like that? Craig's Bond having a way of sneaking into M's private quarters has now also become something of a running gag.

 

I understand the gag, considering the circumstances of 007's disappearance and heightened security it still felt cool but totally unbelievable. Mendes missed here the chance of using TMWTGG and letting 007 return under a cloud of suspicion. His solution was Bond back no explanation necessary was a betrayal of Fleming and any decent spy novelist. 

 

 

- Dragging M to Skyfall without any protection is indeed the stupidest idea the franchise had so far, but Mendes tried to make it look cool, in which he failed imho

 

The idea was that Silva is able to use all of MI6's technology against them, so Bond needed to get her to a place where technology was taken out of the equation to even the odds. An unrealistic scenario but the stupidest in the franchise? More so than Bond mentally giving himself a heart attack to escape MI6? More than turning Bond into a Japanese man for no reason? Dumber than Jaws falling in love, turning good and saving the day? I think you exaggerate.

 

REally and the British goverment would allow that including a fully armed battle helicopter in their nation, it was quite preposterous really and annoying as well. STYLE over substance and reality.

 

Giving a heart attack was quite out there I admit

Bond turning into a Japanese man, I found Fleming did explain the how and why pretty convincing in his YOLT.

Jaws in love was not such a big leap, and his turning was done quite clever, it never bothered me too much. Met the man and he is a gentle giant, they did him a service.

 

 

Mendes and Craig made a movie based upon what would look nice and have the rest rest be defended by goobledigook and fanboys. AN EXERCISE IN STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE in my humble opinion.

 

Style over substance in a Bond movie? Good heavens, whatever next.

 

More Mendes that is what is next.

 

[Hansen]

It seems the producers are blinded by the success of SF and they think that the same recipe can work / fool twice.

As mentionned, I really think that this is the weakest script of the franchise, BUT there are great things in the film (direction, cinematography and music are top notch). EoN seems not to be self-critical on the film and be able analyze with perspective.

 

In regards of Jamie007 remark about "stupidest" ideas, I agree that the ones you mention are far-fetched but the context of those Bond films were not as "serious" and down-to-earth as Skyfall was supposedly sold.

 

About the list, I am very surprised to se how lazy were the scriptwriters not to close that. One sentence at the end of the film would just have worked fine "by the way, we retrieved the hard drive and recall our agents for safety reasons" or something like that

[tdalton]

I'm certainly not much of a fan of Skyfall, but P&W and Logan's script is nowhere near the worst script in the franchise.

[Hansen]

Let's say that the gap between the promise and the delivery is the widest.

[Mr_Wint]

The thing that hurts the film the most is the main plot twist: The villain intentionally got himself captured so that he could kill M. It just not believable in any possible way.

The other things (how did Bond survive the fall, why didn't Eve kill Patrice, what happened to the list etc. etc.) are just nitpicking. You can find logical gaps like this in any movie.

But Silva's plan, that's a real game changer. You either suspend your disbelief and accept it or you don't. And if you don't, it kinda kills the movie.

It is somewhat pointless for me to do comparisons between the new and the old Bond movies as I am so totally into the latter. But let's say this, Skyfall sometimes feels like a modern Goldfinger (especially in relation to CR). Some style and swagger. A critic's favourite. Lousy narrative. Overated.

[Dustin]

The thing that hurts the film the most is the main plot twist: The villain intentionally got himself captured so that he could kill M. It just not believable in any possible way.

The other things (how did Bond survive the fall, why didn't Eve kill Patrice, what happened to the list etc. etc.) are just nitpicking. You can find logical gaps like this in any movie.

But Silva's plan, that's a real game changer. You either suspend your disbelief and accept it or you don't. And if you don't, it kinda kills the movie.

It is somewhat pointless for me to do comparisons between the new and the old Bond movies as I am so totally into the latter. But let's say this, Skyfall sometimes feels like a modern Goldfinger (especially in relation to CR). Some style and swagger. A critic's favourite. Lousy narrative. Overated.

I think this probably nails it, also with regard to the Goldfinger comparison.

[QLink]

 

4. Severine's death was great. 

 

I'm sure she would beg to disagree.

 

5.  It's more of a character default than a plot hole. Q is learning. 

 

I would like to insist on how unsettling and disagreeable this habit of screenwriters is, to be totally oblivious of the basic facts of IT. I'm sure that a "general audience" is oblivious too, but screenwriters should keep in mind that nowadays a growing part of this "general audience" is familiar with geeky IT things. 

Such absurd writing makes us groan, and makes suspension of disbelief a lot harder to us. 

 

More generally, Skyfall has plotholes like any Bond films, but what annoys me most is that Mendes did with a lot of care and talent a film with which I disagree. 

 

This. Q made the kind of mistake the guy doing computer fornisics for the local sheriff's department wouldn't make. It was a very cringable moment in and otherwise very cool movie.

[Hansen]

I do not agree on the comparison with Goldfinger.

GF script is pretty straightforward. Of course, it goes beyond probable but not impossible. There are no major "suspension of dibelief" (I love that expression).

On the opposite, SF shows 2 of them and they are huge : Silva's plan (which is honestly absurd) and the final act with Bond taking M to Scotland (which is stupid). It is a lot for one film and huge for a bond

[Odd Jobbies]

Some style and swagger. A critic's favourite. Lousy narrative. Overated.

'Some style and swagger' is a huge understatement. It has the best photography in the franchise (by a country mile) and the best score in since LALD. It also has a great director who knows how to get the best from his cast.

 

Sure Logan's script has plot holes, but i'll take that in exchange for the above virtues every time. And anyhow, the plot holes where no doubt created by fudge-master writers P&W (whom fudge-master supremo Damon Lndelof no doubt understudied), so it's good to know they're not involved in Bond 24.... .... ....what's that? You're joking...REALLY? ...OH ***K !

This. Q made the kind of mistake the guy doing computer fornisics for the local sheriff's department wouldn't make. It was a very cringable moment in and otherwise very cool movie.

 

 

I think the point being made was that Q suffered a moment of hubris. It was established that he was new and very young, but that he had an ego which compensated. This scene tested him by having hi fall victim of his hubris, but managing to cope - we saw him 'cut his teeth'. For me this made it a good scene.

[Guy Haines]

I may not see eye to eye with some here about SF because in spite of certain plot holes - one in particular - I still enjoyed it very much indeed. But I must agree with Hansen about GF.

 

Certainly, as mentioned on other Cbn threads, GF appears to show Bond as  passive in the plot once in Goldfinger's clutches, although he's piecing together the threads of Operation Grand Slam before trying to get word of it out to the CIA, and it's only Mr Solo's unfortunate appointment with a vehicle crusher that stops him. And the reason for the failure of Goldfinger's plan is confined to the Delta 9 gas on the flying circus 'planes being switched - we're not even told how Pussy Galore got away with that.

 

But GF improves on the novel in one area - there's no way Goldfinger's team could have moved that much gold out of Fort Knox, and the "clean" nuclear bomb to be used to blow the gates off the depository would surely have done a lot more damage than that. So the plan to irradiate the gold , destroy its value and sink the western world's economies makes much more sense.

[Hansen]

Indeed, the irradiation plan is a clear improvement on the novel. Same can be said about Le Chiffre business in CR vs the novel

[Guy Haines]

In reply about CR, one thing about the film is that it is Bond himself who upsets Le Chiffre's plan to make a killing on the stock market by blowing up the airliner, without realising the implications until M briefs him afterwards. In the book, when it came to a bad bet, Le Chiffre was the author of his own misfortune - he gambled on brothels and lost -  and 007 is simply sent out to finish him off at the gaming table, knowing already that Le Chiffre is in trouble.

 

Whereas, from the moment Bond bumps off the bomb-maker in Madagascar, and without realising it, he causes things to go from good to bad to worse for Le Chiffre.

[FlemingBond]

There are a lot of plot holes, but there are in a lot of action movies. Why would Bond take off and pretend to be dead? How can Silva be anywhere and not get caught? Why wouldn't Bond whisper to another agent to follow him and M to Skyfall a few hours later?

It's the same thing in The Dark Knight , that so many feel Skyfall borrows from. How could the Joker really have so many irons in the fire at once, so to speak, and anticipate everything that happens? He couldn't ; it's a movie.

[SirCliff]

The plot holes are quite gapping in SF. The idea that after that disc had been in Silva's hands for however long and there would be no copy or back up of it is ridiculous.

There in lies my problem with SF. The plot is too weak and borrowed from other movies such as the dark knight and mission impossible. One of my favourite parts of a bond movie is watching the master plan take shape...and here the big scheme is to kill M...that's it

[Colossus]

The thing that feels like a cop-out in SF is the villain, clearly they wanted to give him someone more aggressive i.e. badass moreso than the passive-aggressiveness urbane nonchalance of Le Chiffre or the non-entity Greene -- so instead of really do something they… do the MI6 agent gone bad route. Scratch that, if they are doing this as an ode, then thank you for doing that again because it only reaffirms and cements further the greatness of Goldeneye as they pay tribute to it! They love it, they truly love it!

[Zen Razor]

Most people already commented on it but let me just say that taking Silva to Skyfall was not an idiotic idea. Bond being aware that Silva can control technology and use it to his advantage he took Silva somewhere where technology does not control. Honestly these sound like complaints instead of plotsholes.

Most people already commented on it but let me just say that taking Silva to Skyfall was not an idiotic idea. Bond being aware that Silva can control technology and use it to his advantage he took Silva somewhere where technology does not control. Honestly these sound like complaints instead of plotholes.

Most people already commented on it but let me just say that taking Silva to Skyfall was not an idiotic idea. Bond being aware that Silva can control technology and use it to his advantage he took Silva somewhere where technology does not control. Honestly these sound like complaints instead of plotholes.

Most people already commented on it but let me just say that taking Silva to Skyfall was not an idiotic idea. Bond being aware that Silva can control technology and use it to his advantage he took Silva somewhere where technology does not control. Honestly these sound like complaints instead of plotholes.

[tdalton]

Taking Silva out to the middle of nowhere might not have been a dumb move, but deciding to go it alone was dumb mistake.  Bond and a 77-year old woman versus a former MI6/Double-oh operative and his henchmen.  The fact that it ended with only one of them deceased is astounding.  

 

And, yes, I know M gave him the order that it would be just the two of them.  But, given her actions throughout the film, Bond should have ignored her orders and arranged for some kind of backup.

[007jamesbond]

Don't care about plotholes in skyfall because the brilliant movie makes up the flaws