35 replies to this topic

[quantumofsolace]

theguardian 4 August 2013

http://www.theguardi...er-david-arnold

[Guy Haines]

I read the paper based version of that article. Very interesting. With Sam Mendes installed as director for Bond 24 though, one wonders when (if?) David Arnold will return to scoring Bond?   I'll be surprised if Thomas Newman isn't back to write the score for the next film.

 

I got the impression, reading between the lines of the article, that Arnold is resigned to a lengthy gap until his next Bond assignment. That said, there were gaps in the 1970s and early 1980s when John Barry didn't score Bond (For quite different reasons, not unrelated to tax problems!) , so Arnold could be back. The Bond producers have tended to show a certain loyalty to production team members in the past - or are, perhaps, comfortable with continuity in certain areas, such as music scores.

 

For myself, I'm not too vexed if David Arnold or Thomas Newman were to continue scoring the films - or any other decent composer - provided the end result is recognisably a Bond score. Always a tricky job - doing "the same" but "different".

[Walecs]

I'd be surprised as well to see Arnold coming back, but in a good way. Let's hope he'll be back.

[Belmont]

Hope David Arnold returns - I thought QoS was his most inventive and interesting Bond score since TND. Newman's score had its moments, but never felt quite right... or even especially Bondian.

Edited by Belmont, 08 August 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[Bill]

I also hope he returns.   Now that the reboot is done and Bond is back to being Bond (thank God) it is time we get another real Bond score.  Arnold did a terrific job with the Brosnan films (with TND sounding the most like a traditional Bond score) and the first two Craig films were also well done, but unfortunatey hampered by the lack of the Bond theme, which made sense under the circumstances.  Indeed, his score to QOS was one of the very few good things about the film. 

 

I liked Skyfall quite a bit but while Newman's score was serviceable, it did not have the bombastic Barry like sound, at which Arnold is quite adept at recreating and enhancing with his own take on 007.  Now given that Skyfall is far different in tone then the other films in the series, I guess the lack of a grand Bond score makes sense.  As I said, though, Bond 24 should be a return to normalcy, and while Newman may be capable of giving us a John Barry like score, David Arnold definitely is. 

[Satorious]

Interesting times. I highly suspect Arnold's return to the series hinges on the director who takes the reigns after Mendes and also the availabilty/popularity/cost of Newman when this happens. But I wouldn't be surprised to see them settle on a different composer either.

 

Whilst we have Mendes I'd be surprised to see any composer other than Thomas Newman. But I would recommend caution getting your hopes up that David Arnold is going to automatically return to the series (unless the planets all seem to align - which I guess isn't entirely impossible).

Edited by Satorious, 12 August 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[ggl]

Perhaps we are being very confident with the Mendes-Newman "affair"...

 

Apparently, Newman hadn´t the best of the relationship with the producers... if that means something.

[Satorious]

I'm not sure where your evidence of this is - although it is clear that the producers seemed to get on well with Arnold. Perhaps that small matter of an Oscar nomination might mean something to them also though?

[ggl]

I'm not sure where your evidence of this is - although it is clear that the producers seemed to get on well with Arnold. Perhaps that small matter of an Oscar nomination might mean something to them also though?

My "evidence" is just a commentary from somebody linked to EON who is a member from another forum...

 

And, about the Oscar, well that´s good and all that, but remember Marvin Hamlisch...

[glidrose]

 

I'm not sure where your evidence of this is - although it is clear that the producers seemed to get on well with Arnold. Perhaps that small matter of an Oscar nomination might mean something to them also though?

My "evidence" is just a commentary from somebody linked to EON who is a member from another forum...

 

And, about the Oscar, well that´s good and all that, but remember Marvin Hamlisch...

 

 

Whose Bond work didn't win him an Oscar. For all we know Hamlisch had no interest in scoring another Bond film. Likewise, Newman may not want to score a second Bond film.

 

I'm not sure how much weight - if any - we should put on somebody who supposedly is linked to EON and posts on another forum. I find it hard to believe anybody that closely connected to EON spends time posting to internet message boards.

 

Besides, the producers didn't exactly get along with Brosnan from '97 onwards - according to rumor - yet they brought him back.

 

And while people may not have the best relationship, that doesn't mean they hate each other.

 

Here's a great story. As some of you know, screenwriter Robert Towne and director Roman Polanski had a falling out during the making of Chinatown. Towne swore he would never work with Polanski again. At some awards ceremony, Towne couldn't understand why staff didn't want to sit him at his assigned table. Somebody on staff explained that Polanski was at that table. Towne replied, "I said I'd never make another movie with Roman. I didn't say I wouldn't have dinner with him." Despite this, Towne did work with Polanski again on another movie (Frantic).

[Mr_Wint]

One could suspect that Newman has mixed feelings about the "collaboration" with EON. We all know how producer-driven these films are, and the music is something of a holy grail. For instance, it is very hard to believe that Newman wanted Arnold's Bond theme in his score... And we know that the producers "helped him" with the music for the Macau scene (Adele's theme). This could mean nothing, or it is just the tip of the ice berg.
 

[ggl]

One could suspect that Newman has mixed feelings about the "collaboration" with EON. We all know how producer-driven these films are, and the music is something of a holy grail. For instance, it is very hard to believe that Newman wanted Arnold's Bond theme in his score... And we know that the producers "helped him" with the music for the Macau scene (Adele's theme). This could mean nothing, or it is just the tip of the ice berg.
 

Voila! Rumour says that Newman did not want Bond theme... at all!

[Walecs]

^One more reason not to have him back.

[Rich Douglas]

 

Why... what...ugh... Newman is a great composer, he of all people should know that you've GOT to use the damn theme in a Bond film, at least once.  It has been written, and therefore must be done.  We can only hope that things go back to "normal", but I somehow doubt they will at all during the Craig era.  How the hell long does this reboot need to be anyway?  

[Orion]

Newman spent his entire Classic fm interview (the one him and Arnold did together) talking about the importance of the Bond theme in a Bond score, he agreed with Arnold that it's needed or its just any old action movie, the trick was trying to find new ways of using it but still keeping it as part of the scores DNA. Where has this "Newman didn't want the Bond theme!!!" nonsense come from?

 

As for the idea that he wouldn't work on Bond 24 because he might have disagreed with producers at some points during Skyfall's production - Newman, after two decades averaging 4 films/tv series a year, can be considered an industry veteran. He'd know better than anyone that if you're working on a project with a large number of people,especially on creative project where its all about personal taste, you are going to disagree with someone at some point. The fact Newman still does 4 or 5 things a year after 20 years would indicate he doesn't take it personally when someone says he or she doesn't like a piece he just composed.

[Walecs]

Where has this "Newman didn't want the Bond theme!!!" nonsense come from?

 

Umm... from the score?

[The Shark]

It's all over the score. Probably the most prominent usage since DIE ANOTHER DAY.

Nah, the "Newman didn't want to use the Bond theme" crap comes from internet hearsay on forums like Film Score Monthly. Someone saying, "I have friends in the industry and they tell me..." Just fanboy S*** stirring.

[Satorious]

Lots of speculation, but nothing to back-up Newman didn't want to use the Bond theme - quite the opposite in fact. That said it did appear he drop the ball when incorporating the main-title/Adele theme (I forget where I read/heard this now - it might have been the commentary track, hence the track Komodo Dragon was created). Keeping on topic, the biggest problem I have with his score is actually related to the Bond theme. I would have preferred his own interpretation of the theme, not just some tired and lazy rehashing of the Arnold orchestrations. That was my biggest gripe really... Hopefully if he comes back he might address this.

[ggl]

Newman spent his entire Classic fm interview (the one him and Arnold did together) talking about the importance of the Bond theme in a Bond score, he agreed with Arnold that it's needed or its just any old action movie, the trick was trying to find new ways of using it but still keeping it as part of the scores DNA.

And that´s why he used Arnold´s Bond theme??

[Orion]

 

Newman spent his entire Classic fm interview (the one him and Arnold did together) talking about the importance of the Bond theme in a Bond score, he agreed with Arnold that it's needed or its just any old action movie, the trick was trying to find new ways of using it but still keeping it as part of the scores DNA.

And that´s why he used Arnold´s Bond theme??

 

I think he was referring to how he used it outside of the end credits and "Breadcrumbs" though I should point out those are both new recordings which credit Arnold because they take the added slow build to the Bond theme from "The Name's Bond, James Bond" then he strips it down for use over the last scene. "Breadcrumbs" also features Barry's "Bond back in action", we just didnt know that till the film came out because Barry, for obvious reasons, isnt on twitter to let us know that he'd been asked...

[The Shark]

Keeping on topic, the biggest problem I have with his score is actually related to the Bond theme. I would have preferred his own interpretation of the theme, not just some tired and lazy rehashing of the Arnold orchestrations.

Well, we do hear Newman's reinterpretation in cues like the very on Someone Usually Dies (3 note chromatic vamp is in 6/4 while the bass guitar remains in 4/4 - creating a slight polyrhythmic effect) and when Bond's Aston is destroyed in She's Mine (Bond theme in wild 12/8 groove).

[Satorious]

I know it's in there - I just question why he even bothered to rehash the Arnold orchestration for the Aston/Gun Barrel scenes. He was more than capable of doing his own take on it. I loved the way that all the John Barry scores all the way up to Octopussy had their own personal identities and intepretations of the theme (ignoring any shoe-ins of the 1962 version over the top).

Edited by Satorious, 15 August 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[PeterGreenhill]

I agree with the opening post that reading between the lines of The Guardian interview, Arnold appears to accept that he won't be scoring Bond 24. For me, five Arnold Bond scores is enough. He's done some good cues but his action music all sounds the same and is out of control, headache inducing, overloud noise. In no way is it 'Bondian'.

 

To have Newman back on Bond 24 will be great news and must be 99% certain, the only issue might be, does Newman want to score another one, even with Mendes on board?

 

If Newman says no, then Eon should go for the best, Alexandre Desplat.

[When In Egypt]

Let's have a completely different composer.

 

Henry Jackman's score for X-Men First Class was very, very strong.  Magneto's theme was stylish, immense, and immediately memorable.  I'd be more than happy if he got the job.

[Guy Haines]

 

 

I'm not sure where your evidence of this is - although it is clear that the producers seemed to get on well with Arnold. Perhaps that small matter of an Oscar nomination might mean something to them also though?

My "evidence" is just a commentary from somebody linked to EON who is a member from another forum...

 

And, about the Oscar, well that´s good and all that, but remember Marvin Hamlisch...

 

 

Whose Bond work didn't win him an Oscar. For all we know Hamlisch had no interest in scoring another Bond film. Likewise, Newman may not want to score a second Bond film.

 

I'm not sure how much weight - if any - we should put on somebody who supposedly is linked to EON and posts on another forum. I find it hard to believe anybody that closely connected to EON spends time posting to internet message boards.

 

Besides, the producers didn't exactly get along with Brosnan from '97 onwards - according to rumor - yet they brought him back.

 

And while people may not have the best relationship, that doesn't mean they hate each other.

 

Here's a great story. As some of you know, screenwriter Robert Towne and director Roman Polanski had a falling out during the making of Chinatown. Towne swore he would never work with Polanski again. At some awards ceremony, Towne couldn't understand why staff didn't want to sit him at his assigned table. Somebody on staff explained that Polanski was at that table. Towne replied, "I said I'd never make another movie with Roman. I didn't say I wouldn't have dinner with him." Despite this, Towne did work with Polanski again on another movie (Frantic).

 

"The fact that I was never asked to do another Bond film escapes me. I don't know what more you can do; you can deliver a score. You can deliver an Oscar-nominated song. You can deliver a number two record, and it still ain't good enough." A quote from Marvin Hamlisch, taken from John Burlingame's "The Music Of James Bond". I think that indicates he was interested in returning to Bond. Proof you can be one of the biggest names in musicals and film music and still be overlooked for an encore.

 

Also on this thread mention has been made of disharmony between producers and music composers. This is nothing new in the Bond series. John Barry had a famous row with Harry Saltzman over the lyrics for "Diamonds Are Forever", and Saltzman reputedly hated the song "Goldfinger" and wanted it removed from the film's titles. (Again, you can read about this in John Burlingame's book.) None of this prevented Barry from scoring eleven Bonds and being asked to return when other composers such as Marvin Hamlisch could have easily taken up the baton.

[glidrose]

Let's not forget that Shirley Bassey unsuccessfully sued the producers (and possibly John Barry)... and they still brought her back twice more.

[dtuba]

I know it's in there - I just question why he even bothered to rehash the Arnold orchestration for the Aston/Gun Barrel scenes. He was more than capable of doing his own take on it. I loved the way that all the John Barry scores all the way up to Octopussy had their own personal identities and intepretations of the theme (ignoring any shoe-ins of the 1962 version over the top).

This.

-Barry had his jazzy version

-George Martin shook it up with the funky wah-wah guitar

-Hamlisch had the disco-rific Bond '77

-Bill Conti's added trumpets a.k.a. Rocky

-Arnold had Moby's version

 

Newman had a great oppotunity and squandered it.

Edited by dtuba, 28 September 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

Your assessment is very limited and mis-leading, IMO.

[marktmurphy]

Must admit I'd prefer another Newman score to an Arnold one. His Skyfall score just had a sort of depth to it that an Arnold one doesn't. I'm not musical so I can't describe it. Just feels classier, somehow.

[Walecs]

I hope they'll hire Arnold as the composer of November Man.