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Whats the best Bond novels Fleming wrote?


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#1 BarbarasBallGown

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:21 AM

Have to be honest. I've never read a Bond novel.....ever. I own all the movies, but have never had any ambition of reading the original books.....UNTIL NOW!!!
Whats the best novels Flemming did, and what more, whats the most recomended to read first?
Please...

#2 Cabarita Island

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:34 AM

I would regard Casino Royale, Live and Let Die, Moonraker, OHMSS and You Only Live Twice as the best of the Fleming novels.
From a View to a Kill is my favourite short story.
They are all enjoyable though in my opinion and fairly accessible too.
It is certainly worth starting with Casino Royale and reading them all including the shorts in order as there are references to past stories in some of the novels.
I have just re-read them all again in order and can really recommend it.
Best of luck and enjoy!

#3 Major Tallon

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

I'd read them in order, but if you want to read books that are close to the films in plot (and therefore will be more familiar to you), you can read From Russia, With Love, followed by Doctor No. Another couplet of novels, again close to the films in story line, are Thunderball, followed by On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

As for the "best" book, we'll all have our particular favorites, but mine is OHMSS. It's got a great, suspenseful plot, with an exotic setting and a couple of great action set pieces. The character of James Bond is well developed, and the heroine is very appealing.

But whatever book you choose, I've every confidence you'll enjoy them. They're great reads! And if you have questions or comments, please feel free to let us know.

#4 Walecs

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:24 PM

My two favourite ones are Casino Royale and OHMSS, and I'd suggest you to read the books in order. I also love FRWL, DN, GF and YOLT.

#5 tdalton

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

I'd have to go with either Casino Royale or You Only Live Twice.

#6 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

I'd have to go with either Casino Royale or You Only Live Twice.


Excellent choices! I would add FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.

#7 PPK_19

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:09 PM

From Russia with Love is my favourite.
Hang in there, because Bond doesn't appear for 80-100 pages or something. The first part of the book concerns the Russians' plans. But it's still my favourite Bond book.

But start with Casino Royale.

#8 jsteed

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

My favorite is Moonraker but am reading You Only Live Twice currently.

#9 R. Dittmar

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

May I be a contrary voice and suggest you NOT start with "Casino Royale". After Bond gets tortured, there's about 50+ pages of him sitting around with Mathis pondering What It All Means to be a secret agent. I don't want to say it's boring necessarily, but it could give you the wrong idea about the rest of the books which are quite action packed. I'd also stay away from "The Man With the Golden Gun" at least initially. I'm not sure that Fleming really wrote it at all. I think they hired a ghost writer to flesh out a draft that Fleming wrote before he died.

The best to read first in my mind is "From Russia With Love" especially for the surprise ending. "You Only Live Twice" is the best book, but you really should probably read "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" first or at least watch the movie. In fact, you should probably read a lot of the others first to appreciate it. The suggestions above about "Moonraker" are also great. It's a very good book and nothing like the movie.

Edited by R. Dittmar, 28 November 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#10 Dustin

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

I'd also stay away from "The Man With the Golden Gun" at least initially. I'm not sure that Fleming really wrote it at all. I think they hired a ghost writer to flesh out a draft that Fleming wrote before he died.


To the best of our knowledge Fleming did write TMWTGG himself, and alone. Only he was already seriously ill at the time, had practically ended the series with YOLT already and had to be talked into producing one more against his own better judgement. The novel itself is the best testament to that; a real bang of an opening, followed by a - relatively speaking - vastly inferior two thirds of main plot. To me this completely debunks any suspicions or rumours about ghost writers or editing by Amis. This result simply isn't what you would realistically expect when heavy editing or 'fleshing out' by a third party was involved. There are various ways the book could have been improved. It didn't happen because Fleming had an appointment to keep, plain and simple. We shouldn't spread such unfounded speculations when all evidence points the other way, this was all Fleming's ill health allowed him to come up with.

#11 Bucky

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:30 PM

my favorites are Casino Royale, From Russia with Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, and You Only Live Twice

#12 plankattack

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Personally fond of DN, and the aforementioned FRWL. I also think TB is a terrific read. With it's roots as a screenplay, it really moves along well.

Agreed with all on TMWTGG, and the TSWLM is, well, it is what it is.

#13 R. Dittmar

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

... and the TSWLM is, well, it is what it is.


Good point. We probably can't stress enough not to start with "The Spy Who Loved Me". That was an experiment the success of which you might want to judge at some point, but don't let that be your introduction to the books.

#14 tdalton

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

I have to admit that I rather enjoyed The Man With the Golden Gun. The opening, as already stated, was great, and something that should eventually make its way into one of the films. The rest of the novel, while obviously not ranking up there with the likes of CR, FRWL, and YOLT, does a good job of bringing Bond back into the fold in an interesting way after the obvious attempt at a conclusion to the series in YOLT. I certainly enjoy Fleming's take on the story much more than I do EON's attempt at "adapting" it for the big screen.

#15 R. Dittmar

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:07 PM

I'd also stay away from "The Man With the Golden Gun" at least initially. I'm not sure that Fleming really wrote it at all. I think they hired a ghost writer to flesh out a draft that Fleming wrote before he died.


To the best of our knowledge Fleming did write TMWTGG himself, and alone. Only he was already seriously ill at the time, had practically ended the series with YOLT already and had to be talked into producing one more against his own better judgement. The novel itself is the best testament to that; a real bang of an opening, followed by a - relatively speaking - vastly inferior two thirds of main plot. To me this completely debunks any suspicions or rumours about ghost writers or editing by Amis. This result simply isn't what you would realistically expect when heavy editing or 'fleshing out' by a third party was involved. There are various ways the book could have been improved. It didn't happen because Fleming had an appointment to keep, plain and simple. We shouldn't spread such unfounded speculations when all evidence points the other way, this was all Fleming's ill health allowed him to come up with.


Let me stress that I don't want to be insulting to anyone or spread any untrue accusations. I just remember hearing back in the day (and I’m an old man so that was long, long, long ago back in the day) that the publishers had used some ghost writers to finish or flesh out the book. I thought it plausible after reading it because there are some very un-Fleming like passages in it. In particular, there’s a lot of unpleasantly graphic violence that’s found in that book and none of the others.

That said though, I know very little about the circumstances that surrounded the publication of the book. I think we can both agree though that it’s definitely not the first book that someone new to Fleming wants to pick up.

#16 Dustin

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:46 PM


I'd also stay away from "The Man With the Golden Gun" at least initially. I'm not sure that Fleming really wrote it at all. I think they hired a ghost writer to flesh out a draft that Fleming wrote before he died.


To the best of our knowledge Fleming did write TMWTGG himself, and alone. Only he was already seriously ill at the time, had practically ended the series with YOLT already and had to be talked into producing one more against his own better judgement. The novel itself is the best testament to that; a real bang of an opening, followed by a - relatively speaking - vastly inferior two thirds of main plot. To me this completely debunks any suspicions or rumours about ghost writers or editing by Amis. This result simply isn't what you would realistically expect when heavy editing or 'fleshing out' by a third party was involved. There are various ways the book could have been improved. It didn't happen because Fleming had an appointment to keep, plain and simple. We shouldn't spread such unfounded speculations when all evidence points the other way, this was all Fleming's ill health allowed him to come up with.


Let me stress that I don't want to be insulting to anyone or spread any untrue accusations. I just remember hearing back in the day (and I’m an old man so that was long, long, long ago back in the day) that the publishers had used some ghost writers to finish or flesh out the book. I thought it plausible after reading it because there are some very un-Fleming like passages in it. In particular, there’s a lot of unpleasantly graphic violence that’s found in that book and none of the others.

That said though, I know very little about the circumstances that surrounded the publication of the book. I think we can both agree though that it’s definitely not the first book that someone new to Fleming wants to pick up.


I agree that TMWTGG would not be a perfect place to start reading Bond (much like THE LONELY SILVER RAIN would be a bad start for the McGee series). Better perhaps to start with MOONRAKER or LIVE AND LET DIE. My first one was MR indeed, and this still has a special place in my heart, especially since it provides the reader with a rare glimpse on the more ordinary side of Bond's office life.


About TMWTGG, I too have heard numerous rumours in my time. Most often the claim about Amis' involvement comes up. But Amis himself criticises the book in his JAMES BOND DOSSIER and points out various shortcomings. Had he had his pen in TMWTGG he'd surely have tackled these points himself, wouldn't he? In the end this is also what - to me - logically excludes another author: anybody else would most likely have delivered a work both more extensive and better connected to Bond's time with the KGB. There is far more potential in that element, yet it wasn't used in the further plot of the novel. I find it hard to believe such potential wouldn't be used by somebody who hasn't to fight his own ill health as Fleming had to. To me the fact TMWTGG is what it is proves it was written under extremely difficult circumstances.

#17 Trevelyan 006

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:10 PM

Definitely read them in novel order. They all are a great read but, as far as my favorite goes: OHMSS.

#18 R. Dittmar

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

I agree that TMWTGG would not be a perfect place to start reading Bond (much like THE LONELY SILVER RAIN would be a bad start for the McGee series).


Travis McGee! That's another great series of books that we should encourage the young man who started this thread to look into!

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Travis_McGee

Just start with anything other than "The Lonely Silver Rain" or "The Green Ripper" and you'll be hooked. For those two, you'll have to read some stuff in order.

#19 perdogg

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

Have to be honest. I've never read a Bond novel.....ever. I own all the movies, but have never had any ambition of reading the original books.....UNTIL NOW!!!
Whats the best novels Flemming did, and what more, whats the most recomended to read first?
Please...


Read them in order however, there is some advice you follow:

1. Read them slowley, even the "boring" parts. Take in Fleming's musings.
2. Understand the era before you read them. The last one was written nearly 45 years ago.
3. Forget the movies, there are no Volcano lairs or space based weapon systems.

#20 seawolfnyy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

I agree with many here, OHMSS is my personal favorite. I think Fleming had the perfect juxtaposition of action and dialogue. FRWL is a classic and a personal favorite of one President Jack Kennedy (if anybody didn't know that;)). I always felt the problem with TMWTGG was simply that Fleming died before he could revise it. Obviously, it has arguably the best intro in the series, but the rest of it just feels meh (much like the film). Dr. No is one of the more violent books along with LALD. I think Thunderball plays out much like the film. Goldfinger is odd and
Spoiler
. Casino Royale is good and Moonraker blows the water out of either of the two film adaptations, MR and DAD. I would probably start from the beginning though. I am currently reading through them again. You will need to forget about the films as you read them though, they are vastly different.

#21 freemo

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:14 AM

I think Casino Royale, From Russia With Love, Doctor No (my favourite) and You Only Live Twice make up his top tier, with Live and Let Die and OHMSS just a touch beneath.

Also very fond of Goldfinger, even if the whole thing is just an excuse for the author to write about whatever he felt like writing about that day - canasta, golf, a bit about gold, etc. Atypically unambitious, but very readable.

#22 seawolfnyy

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:10 AM

True, Goldfinger seems to be one of the oddities of the Fleming novels. It is also by far the most implausible, but I agree that it is still enjoyable.

#23 Walecs

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:49 AM

From Russia with Love is my favourite.
Hang in there, because Bond doesn't appear for 80-100 pages or something. The first part of the book concerns the Russians' plans. But it's still my favourite Bond book.

But start with Casino Royale.


In my edition is 80 pages- Anyway, Bond gets still mentioned a lot, as well as his previous adventures.

May I be a contrary voice and suggest you NOT start with "Casino Royale". After Bond gets tortured, there's about 50+ pages of him sitting around with Mathis pondering What It All Means to be a secret agent. I don't want to say it's boring necessarily, but it could give you the wrong idea about the rest of the books which are quite action packed.

I remember I read more than half of the book (I think from where Vesper gets kidnapped till the end) in just one day. It's not anywhere boring definitely.

Edited by Walecs, 30 November 2012 - 09:51 AM.


#24 Howland

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:21 AM

My all time favorite is Casino Royale. But for a newcomer to the books, I would recommand maybe Moonraker, because if you seen all the movies, it is a fresh story.

#25 archer1949

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:54 AM

Mooraker for me. Thunderball is also a favorite of mine.



#26 Peckinpah1976

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:55 AM

Diamonds are Forever, Goldfinger, Dr.No and The Spy Who Loved Me are 'lesser' novels IMO, everything else is pretty much first rate (including the vast majority of the short stories). 



#27 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:14 PM

OHMSS & YOLT...

 

They really have to be read as one story split in two. Sublimely tragic (far more so that CR). We really delve into Bond's fractured psyche this time in YOLT and highly inventive in resolution of the 'Broken Bond'. YOLT's Garden of Death is one of Eon's greatest pieces untapped Fleming source material.

 

FRWL: The structure of the first part is again inventive, daring, and refreshing (seeing Bond from the SMERSH point of view).

 

Also, Fleming writes great cliffhanger endings (only ever reflected in the epilogue of the CR movie). FRWL and YOLT are the best, the latter setting up a fantastic opening for TMWTGG. Probably the best literary end line i've ever read is that CR. It's sends chills down the spine, re-defining the proto-Bond in an instant, from the innocent world view of good guys and bad guys into the ruthless, realist, pragmatic Bond that trusts no one. 


Edited by Odd Jobbies, 31 December 2012 - 12:16 PM.


#28 seawolfnyy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

Also, Fleming writes great cliffhanger endings (only ever reflected in the epilogue of the CR movie). FRWL and YOLT are the best, the latter setting up a fantastic opening for TMWTGG. Probably the best literary end line i've ever read is that CR. It's sends chills down the spine, re-defining the proto-Bond in an instant, from the innocent world view of good guys and bad guys into the ruthless, realist, pragmatic Bond that trusts no one. 

Agreed, the final line in CR is a great one. Although it does work well how it's used in the film. One line from the novel that I would like to see in a film at some point is "3030 was a double." Always loved that line.



#29 007jamesbond

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:29 AM

The best Fleming book is definately From Russia with love, the ultimate Cold War novel East vs West, orient express, etc

 

Casino Royale is another one though not much action with Bond hardly using a weapon is brilliant and the first in the series is usually one of the best. Moonraker I like too because of the blade game......need to see that in the movie some day Dr.No is another brilliant novel the ostracle course, and giant squid I think great descrition....

 

overall, the best Fleming are the early ones in the series and the quality is not the same as the later one



#30 Odd Jobbies

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

 

Also, Fleming writes great cliffhanger endings (only ever reflected in the epilogue of the CR movie). FRWL and YOLT are the best, the latter setting up a fantastic opening for TMWTGG. Probably the best literary end line i've ever read is that CR. It's sends chills down the spine, re-defining the proto-Bond in an instant, from the innocent world view of good guys and bad guys into the ruthless, realist, pragmatic Bond that trusts no one. 

Agreed, the final line in CR is a great one. Although it does work well how it's used in the film. One line from the novel that I would like to see in a film at some point is "3030 was a double." Always loved that line.

 

 

Yep, '3030' is dead cool as well. But i wish they'd kept that whole chunk of dialogue intact in the movie; he should've been on the phone to an HQ operator rather than M and delivered those lines straight from the book, no reply- hangs up. No txt clues left from a remorseful Vesper, just cut straight to the Mr White getting shot scene. There are other ways they could've laid the ground work for how Bond located White.

 

Personally i thought they threw away the 'Bitch is dead now' line - it got lost in the sentimentality of M's effort to console Bond. The effect was that we see Bond from M's point of view - that Bond's cold veneer is a front he's putting on to hide the grief and as a result of this we pity Bond. In the book we don't pity him - we fear him. The reader is devastated and grieving for the couple's lost love and is shocked by Bond's pragmatic, ruthless telephone call to HQ. In an instant Bond becomes unpredictable, dangerous and compelling. This is far more exciting and teasing to the reader than a sad hero - he's out for vengeance and we can't wait for the next book.

 

Sure Bond's no doubt hurting and acting out his anguish and grief, but that's all in the subtext. In the movie, M saying this subtext out loud - trying to rationalise the situation and console Bond dilutes the very point of having that line, 'The bitch is dead now' there in the first place and the line comes across as oddly out of place.

 

This was the only part of CR (the movie) where i felt let down.