513 replies to this topic

[univex]

Everybody knows it. Including Colin Salmon.

True. This makes me realize just how old this rumour is. It´s not even a rumour really.

[FOX MULDER]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Is nothing sacred in this politically correct age?

The day Bond becomes black, oriental, or a woman - I'm done.

[Dustin]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Is nothing sacred in this politically correct age?

The day Bond becomes black, oriental, or a woman - I'm done.

I don't think this is about political correctness. It's simply a fact that for many people today the tone of Bond's skin isn't an issue any more, they have no problem imagining a black Bond. At the same time it's highly unlikely this is going to happen in the foreseeable future as a black Bond would not be universally accepted yet. This is not a 'racist' issue as such, as the character simply is established as a white male with audiences. A change of this characterisation would most likely only be accepted once race and skin tone are no longer defining traits of a person in our society, something hardly conceivable in our current times.

[Hockey Mask]

I wouldn't want this anymore than Bond being played by a woman. Bond has become a "real" figure. It would be like making a movie where JFK is black. Scooby Doo is a Great Dane not a Dalmation.

[Peckinpah1976]

Regardless of his racial heritage, Elba has got the definite old school presence and charisma of a Sean Connery which is a rare quality in an actor these days. It'll never happen but it's not ludicrous as these types of stories go.

[supernova]

James Bond is a multi-billion pound franchise -- the producers are not going to put any actor in the title role unless they are sure it means box office success. Bond will remain white and male -- and I think that's a very good thing. If there is an appetite to cast ethnic actors in such films -- why not start a new franchise? It makes sense.

[Scrambled Eggs]

He'd be very good but i doubt he'll get it.

I suspect he has some very good PR people on his side. They've done a great job of getting this in the papers at the perfect time.

[FOX MULDER]

I don't think this is about political correctness. It's simply a fact that for many people today the tone of Bond's skin isn't an issue any more, they have no problem imagining a black Bond.

Sure about that? What do you base that on?

The character is a white man. End of story.

Give me one good reason to change that.

[Chief of SIS]

I don't think this is about political correctness. It's simply a fact that for many people today the tone of Bond's skin isn't an issue any more, they have no problem imagining a black Bond.

Sure about that? What do you base that on?

The character is a white man. End of story.

Give me one good reason to change that.

...Because a black man may have the potential to actually be a better actor to portray the character.

Hopefully that reason wasn't that hard for most to think of.

[FOX MULDER]

Since the character is white, no black man is going to be "a better actor to portray the character" - no matter how good an actor he may be.

James Bond, the character, is white.

I'm not sure how this can even be up for debate.

[Dustin]

I don't think this is about political correctness. It's simply a fact that for many people today the tone of Bond's skin isn't an issue any more, they have no problem imagining a black Bond.

Sure about that? What do you base that on?

The character is a white man. End of story.

Give me one good reason to change that.

I primarily base that on my ability to read, it's really a great help in life overall. If you read some of the responses here the answer is obvious. A lot of people don't have a problem with a black Bond. Likewise a lot of people don't get over the - obvious - fact the character is defined as white, you amongst them. Which is why it won't happen in the foreseeable future. And I guess a significant number of fans don't care either way, as I do for example.

And the obvious characterisation as white male will only ever change if the 'white' doesn't mean anything any longer - something nobody alive today is very likely to ever see. So the fuss is hardly called for, is it?

Since the character is white, no black man is going to be "a better actor to portray the character" - no matter how good an actor he may be.

James Bond, the character, is white.

I'm not sure how this can even be up for debate.

Nobody asks you to debate it then.

[FOX MULDER]

Likewise a lot of people don't get over the - obvious - fact the character is defined as white, you amongst them.

What an odd thing to say. Why on earth would anyone have to "get over" the fact that Bond's white? I daresay, a fictional character's race is not usually 'up for grabs' like this.

I'm looking forward to Idris Elba as 'Bond', Dicaprio as 'Shaft', and Jet Li as Superman.

[Dustin]

Likewise a lot of people don't get over the - obvious - fact the character is defined as white, you amongst them.

What an odd thing to say. Why on earth would anyone have to "get over" the fact that Bond's white?

What's odd about it? To primarily define the character by the tone of his skin? Instead of various other more important traits? Frankly, I couldn't care less any more. For me the main reason against it would be the accusations of stunt casting. Elba is a terrific actor that would surely be up for it. Nonetheless it still won't happen, mainly because the idea would not connect with the audience. So do calm down, you won't have to get over anything.

I daresay, a fictional character's race is not usually 'up for grabs' like this.

A fictional character's ethnicity is far easier to change than a real character's.

I'm looking forward to Idris Elba as 'Bond', Dicaprio as 'Shaft', and Jet Li as Superman.

And I bet you're really, really going to like them, won't you?

[SolidWaffle]

Elba is a great actor. He would fit the role perfectly. I don't think he'lll get it because Bond's white in everyone's mind's eye. I think the mixed reactions in this thread are evidence of that.

This is NOT political correctness. He's a great actor. He's brilliant in The Wire (top notch series, by the way) and Luther.

That being said, he should totally be in the Bond series. A villain maybe. I think he should be an ally.

[Dustin]

Elba is a great actor. He would fit the role perfectly. I don't think he'lll get it because Bond's white in everyone's mind's eye. I think the mixed reactions in this thread are evidence of that.

This is NOT political correctness. He's a great actor. He's brilliant in The Wire (top notch series, by the way) and Luther.

That being said, he should totally be in the Bond series. A villain maybe. I think he should be an ally.

This.

[Chief of SIS]

I don't think this is about political correctness. It's simply a fact that for many people today the tone of Bond's skin isn't an issue any more, they have no problem imagining a black Bond.

Sure about that? What do you base that on?

The character is a white man. End of story.

Give me one good reason to change that.

I primarily base that on my ability to read, it's really a great help in life overall. If you read some of the responses here the answer is obvious. A lot of people don't have a problem with a black Bond. Likewise a lot of people don't get over the - obvious - fact the character is defined as white, you amongst them. Which is why it won't happen in the foreseeable future. And I guess a significant number of fans don't care either way, as I do for example.

And the obvious characterisation as white male will only ever change if the 'white' doesn't mean anything any longer - something nobody alive today is very likely to ever see. So the fuss is hardly called for, is it?

Dustin with claws. Logical claws. Thank you for articulating what I could not.

Now let me re-banish myself for a few weeks from here. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for further developments.

Edited by Chief of SIS, 26 October 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Iceskater101]

I think he definitely could be a villain.

[The Shark]

Dustin could be one of the best.

[RJJB]

Why is it that when the race of a fictional character is changed, that is labeled "progress?' How about we remake The Color Purple with a white cast? You can't because the race of the characters is an element of the story. Sorry, but it's the same with white people. Our racial heritage should be no less disposable. The movies do not feature " a James Bond." They feature James Bond. His roots are that of a literary character and he is white. If someone wants to develop a series featuring a character of a certain race or gender, and try to have that series last for 50 years, go right ahead. Shaft debuted 41 years ago, but the series never made it past three movies. Beverly Hills Cop was also ony good for three movies. Do not try to highjack the Bond series just because you can't create a sustainable character that has the legs to last.

[Dustin]

Dustin could be one of the best.

Villains??? And I thought that casting was for M...

Why is it that when the race of a fictional character is changed, that is labeled "progress?' How about we remake The Color Purple with a white cast? You can't because the race of the characters is an element of the story. Sorry, but it's the same with white people. Our racial heritage should be no less disposable. The movies do not feature " a James Bond." They feature James Bond. His roots are that of a literary character and he is white. If someone wants to develop a series featuring a character of a certain race or gender, and try to have that series last for 50 years, go right ahead. Shaft debuted 41 years ago, but the series never made it past three movies. Beverly Hills Cop was also ony good for three movies. Do not try to highjack the Bond series just because you can't create a sustainable character that has the legs to last.

I don't think the label 'progress was mentioned as yet. 'Ongoing process' would probably be a better description. The point is, the character is defined by certain aspects of its literary and cinematic heritage. It now is debatable which of these aspects are crucial - vital elements without which you don't get the result 'BOND' any more. We learn from experience that these vital elements are not an adamant given, certain aspects have seen change, at time even considerably so. Now the question is if the race - the colour of skin being the prime trait there - is an unalterable quality or could be subject to change. Evidently for some it is, likewise evidently for some it isn't.

The discussion about Elba or not Elba isn't actually an item; it's most likely a PR stunt by Elba's agent and as such a very good one indeed. The basic facts about the discussion remain unchanged, there will not be a black actor in the role as long as the idea isn't accepted by the vast majority of the audience. This in turn can only ever happen if the skin colour of an actor isn't an issue any more in general, a situation we are evidently still generations away from.

Nonetheless Elba would have been doubtlessly an improvement in the role for some films.

Edited by Dustin, 26 October 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

Elba is a great actor. He would fit the role perfectly. I don't think he'lll get it because Bond's white in everyone's mind's eye. I think the mixed reactions in this thread are evidence of that.

This is NOT political correctness. He's a great actor. He's brilliant in The Wire (top notch series, by the way) and Luther.

That being said, he should totally be in the Bond series. A villain maybe. I think he should be an ally.

This.

I second that. Elba would make a wonderful villain.

[YOLT]

We had a black Felix, we have a black .... (spoiler ). Time will come, be it 50 years or 100 years...

[SPECTRE ASSASSIN]

In this brave new world of reboots and loose canons, a racial change is no biggie. Just retcon Monique Delacroix to be Haitian or Congolese or something. Some people would complain that it's stunt casting, but no one would complain too loudly, and people would get used to the idea pretty fast. Having said that, I can't believe that Idris Elba has a chance at the role. He's already forty, and will be nearer fifty by the time Craig hangs up the tux. And he's already too high-profile. Once news articles are being written about how a certain actor might play James Bond, he's probably well past the point in his career where he might actually have been cast as James Bond.

Yes agree with you on all counts. Just another hodge podge article to start something that what not happen. Like the idea however. Elba is a capable actor, has the pedigree and is handsome enough. But very wishful thinking.

[Tony_OO_Black]

Highly doubt this would ever happen once Craig left, precisely because 'black Bond' could so easily become just a gimmick.

I don't think Wilson/Broccoli will ever follow this route. Fleming never wrote Bond as black (he'd probably spin in his grave at the thought! ) so I doubt his estate or future producers will go against that.

[archer1949]

Highly doubt this would ever happen once Craig left, precisely because 'black Bond' could so easily become just a gimmick.

Yes, exactly. A gimmick. You could get Idris Elba, who is a great actor, but all anyone would see is a desperate pandering.

Frankly, all I think of when I hear "Black Bond" is visions of XXX running through my head. Remember that?

Edited by archer1949, 27 October 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[smudge76]

This topic is a joke commented on by some people who have not got a clue. The ones i am talking about are those that seem to think that black men in british society only fit into certain jobs certainly not ones like 007. I'll blow your little bubbles out the windows as i know several black men and mixed race who are memebers of different branches of United Kingdom Special Forces (more than handful by way).
As for intelligence services of united kingdom i have met a few while on tours afghan who are black. So there may not be a black bond in future but for some you idiots on here that have never done a thing for the United KIngdom just understand there are black men and women, mixed race and other races who have risked all, given all and done more than you ever will.
Funny thing is as much as in the times of Ian Fleming they looked on blacks in certain way i have no doubt he would look at some of you (only those who made stupid remarks about blacks not been in certain positions in society) as weak, un adventurous , with little or no courage.

[freemo]

I am not / am (circle as applicable) a racist but...

Let's have a black Bond, if for no other reason than to put an end to the rumours and discussion threads about the subject. Worth it just for that (Live and Let Die with a black Bond and an all-white cast of villians. I'm there!).

We've had Bond's of different hair colour, different eye colour, different heights, different weights. The physical description of Bond in SMERSHs dossier of him in Fleming's From Russia With Love (6 ft, 76 kgs, black hair, etc) doesn't exactly shout Daniel Craig, and that's turned out okay.

If Fleming were alive today, I have no doubt that he'd think what I require him to think in order to back up my arguement. He'd most certainly be appalled at the things I am appalled at.

EDIT:
To those against the idea of a "Black Bond". Just say so. "I don't want a Black Bond". You don't have to apologise for it or quantify the statement. A perfectly reasonable, valid arguement can be made for Bond's ethnicity being a core part of his identity (see WaltherPPKs post #26). Don't cower in fear. Just as bad as "political correctness gone mad" is when people accept the "PC" framing of the issue, even when they know it to be wrong. Just as complicit as the "thought police" are those who cede juristiction to them.

We haven't had a black main villian since Yaphet Kotto. What's up with that?

[DamnCoffee]

I agree. I am by no means racist, but I would never want a 'black Bond.'

I just don't think the character should be black. I know that is extremely controversial of me, and I really do not mean that in a bad way. Far from it.

[jamie00007]

Frankly I always find the find the notion that a white characters race and heritage are meaningless and can be swapped and changed willy nilly to be quite offensive. You wouldn't say that about a black or Asian character. Just another part of western societies rush to throw away its own culture and identity.

I wont see a movie with a black Bond. Because its not Bond, just a new character with Bond's name. Its not a racial thing, Id line up to see a Leiter spin-off with Jeffrey Wright, who I think is the best Leiter of them all. But he was a minor character who really didnt have much of an identity to begin with and could really be re-imagined in anyway. But Bond is a white British male. That is the core of his identity. Bond is a holdover of traditional British colonialism, best typified by the typical white Englishman. His personality, tastes, everything makes the character James Bond is the result of his traditional, upper class aristocratic family background. Taking that away from Bond would be just another step into generica. Do we really want that for Bond? To be a generic action hero whose basic traits are thrown away for the sake of being trendy or politically correct?

Elba is fantastic and I really hope to see him in some leading film roles soon. I'll be there to see them. But he is not James Bond.

Edited by jamie00007, 28 October 2012 - 12:54 AM.

[sharpshooter]

I agree. I am by no means racist, but I would never want a 'black Bond.'

I just don't think the character should be black. I know that is extremely controversial of me, and I really do not mean that in a bad way. Far from it.

Agreed. Just as I wouldn't want a white actor playing Barack Obama in a film about his life.

Edited by sharpshooter, 28 October 2012 - 12:58 AM.