56 replies to this topic

[DaveBond21]

I always enjoy the PTS of FYEO.

 

To me, it is a big middle finger to Kevin McClory, and also a way of getting revenge on the Blofeld, sadly missing from DAF, who killed Tracy, hence he resembles Telly Savalas (complete with neckbrace) and speaks like Largo!

 

It is also a good way of showing this is the same good guy - hence the shot of Tracy's grave.

 

Sad news about Robert Rietty - RIP.

 

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[FlemingBond]

i think the fact that John Glen worked on OHMSS probably something to do with him wanting to bring that story full circle.

[DavidJones]

Killing Blofeld in FYEO was a way to make NSNA illegitimate. They knew Blofeld would appear in NSNA and so killed him off - without referring to him by name, of course - in FYEO. It was done in such a perfuctory manner because they couldn't use the character proper and it was only a flippant thing to do, they weren't going to spend too much time over it.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I like the PTS of For Your Eyes Only except for the stupid, inane "I'll buy you a delicatessen in stainless steel" line. Otherwise, it's very enjoyable. I just wish Irma Bunt would have been a part of it (or for that matter, Diamonds Are Forever).

[glidrose]

Killing Blofeld in FYEO was a way to make NSNA illegitimate. They knew Blofeld would appear in NSNA and so killed him off - without referring to him by name, of course - in FYEO.

Not sure I buy that theory. FYEO began shooting in the summer of 1980. The script was probably finished earlier that year. By this point "Warhead" was dead in the water. I don't think Jack Schwartzman had yet contacted McClory.

[DavidJones]

 

Killing Blofeld in FYEO was a way to make NSNA illegitimate. They knew Blofeld would appear in NSNA and so killed him off - without referring to him by name, of course - in FYEO.

Not sure I buy that theory. FYEO began shooting in the summer of 1980. The script was probably finished earlier that year. By this point "Warhead" was dead in the water. I don't think Jack Schwartzman had yet contacted McClory.

 

 

Eon knew McClory had been trying to make his own Bond since 1976. They were trying to put the nail in the coffin.

[glidrose]

 

 

Killing Blofeld in FYEO was a way to make NSNA illegitimate. They knew Blofeld would appear in NSNA and so killed him off - without referring to him by name, of course - in FYEO.

Not sure I buy that theory. FYEO began shooting in the summer of 1980. The script was probably finished earlier that year. By this point "Warhead" was dead in the water. I don't think Jack Schwartzman had yet contacted McClory.

 

 

Eon knew McClory had been trying to make his own Bond since 1976. They were trying to put the nail in the coffin.

 

 

Yeah, I know that McClory had been trying to make his own Bond since 1976. However your theory still holds no water. By 1980/1981 McClory's hopes appeared to be dead in the water. And your credible source for Eon's intentions is...?

[sharpshooter]

I always enjoy the PTS of FYEO.

It's one of the better ones. I think most of the best pre-title sequences revolve around a single idea/stunt. Be it using a jetpack, ski jumping off a cliff or freefalling without a parachute. FYEO has Bond outside a remote control helicopter, which is amazing. It's so good I don't think the delicatessen line, while odd, factors in all that much. I've always thought of the villain in the PTS as 'Blofeld without it being Blofeld'.

[DavidJones]

 

 

 

Killing Blofeld in FYEO was a way to make NSNA illegitimate. They knew Blofeld would appear in NSNA and so killed him off - without referring to him by name, of course - in FYEO.

Not sure I buy that theory. FYEO began shooting in the summer of 1980. The script was probably finished earlier that year. By this point "Warhead" was dead in the water. I don't think Jack Schwartzman had yet contacted McClory.

 

 

Eon knew McClory had been trying to make his own Bond since 1976. They were trying to put the nail in the coffin.

 

 

Yeah, I know that McClory had been trying to make his own Bond since 1976. However your theory still holds no water. By 1980/1981 McClory's hopes appeared to be dead in the water. And your credible source for Eon's intentions is...?

 

 

Not wishing to be unpleasant, but it's really perfectly obvious that this is why Eon did it. Why else would they?

[David_M]

I certainly wouldn't discount the notion that the PTS is a poke at McClory, but at the time -- and pretty much still -- I thought it was there for a very different reason.

 

Namely, at the time FYEO was being put together, Roger Moore's participation was not at all a sure thing.  I believe the PTS was written to introduce a new lead actor.  By having a well-suited, handsome chap leave flowers at Tracy's grave, and fight "Blofeld" (or a reasonable facsimile), they'd be (1) letting us know the guy we're looking at is the new Bond, without him actually having to say "My name is Bond..." and (2) sending a signal that they're shifting gears away from 70s spectacle-and-levity back to the tradition of OHMSS and the early films.  Yes, "Keep your hair on" and the "bombs away" sound effect are jokey, but they also could've been easily tacked on once Roger re-entered the picture (or even in post-production) to add the "Moore" imprimatur.

 

As it stands, the PTS works nicely with Roger in place because it lends to a subtext running through the film that Bond is growing older and feeling the effects of so many years in the spy biz (as witness his rejection of Bibi as too young even for him, and the "what's the point of it all, anyway" ending where he tosses the ATAC away), and also because it nicely sets up his relationship with Melina, whom he tries to dissuade from the soul-eating pursuit of personal vengeance (he's been there himself, after all). Nonetheless, I still think FYEO would've worked just as well, with a slight shift in tone, to introduce a new, younger Bond, and the PTS would have been an important step in that process.

[DavidJones]

Yes, I'd buy that.

[glidrose]

Killing Blofeld in FYEO was a way to make NSNA illegitimate. They knew Blofeld would appear in NSNA and so killed him off - without referring to him by name, of course - in FYEO.

Not sure I buy that theory. FYEO began shooting in the summer of 1980. The script was probably finished earlier that year. By this point "Warhead" was dead in the water. I don't think Jack Schwartzman had yet contacted McClory.

 
Eon knew McClory had been trying to make his own Bond since 1976. They were trying to put the nail in the coffin.

 
Yeah, I know that McClory had been trying to make his own Bond since 1976. However your theory still holds no water. By 1980/1981 McClory's hopes appeared to be dead in the water. And your credible source for Eon's intentions is...?

 
Not wishing to be unpleasant, but it's really perfectly obvious that this is why Eon did it. Why else would they?

Not wishing to be equally unpleasant, but it's not really perfectly obvious that this is why Eon did it. The fact that you have to ask "Why else would they?" proves it's not anywhere near close to being a fact.

If the PTS was in any way a poke at McClory, it was for a much different reason then what you cite - which let's face it would mean the producers had a crystal ball. AVTAK and LTK clearly prove that they don't.

But I thought long and hard about your pet theory and this is what I came up with. By this point Paramount and Sean Connery had conclusively walked away from Warhead. And yes, Warhead is the project's title and not Never Say Never Again. Without a studio and without Connery, McClory's pet project was dead in the water. Therefore this conclusively proves that EON could not know that Blofeld would appear in NSNA as they had no reason to believe that NSNA could happen. Again, they'd need that crystal ball. However, let's pretend that Blofeld is - warning, pretentious literary term coming up! - an objective correlative for Kevin McClory himself. Blofeld is Bond's enemy. McClory was Ian Fleming's and EON's enemy. McClory had a hand in Ian Fleming's death (as did the smokes and booze). Therefore IF equals Tracy Bond. Bond visits Tracy's grave. The Bond producers pay tribute to the memory of IF by exhuming Fleming's short story collection for a back-to-the-basics film that has more Fleming in it than anything we've seen in over a decade. McClory tried to hijack the Bond franchise. Blofeld tries to hijack Bond's helicopter. Blofeld is in a wheelchair, thanks to Bond. McClory is an Irishman, whoops, let's try that one again. McClory is hamstrung thanks to EON's lawyers and that "ten year non-exploitation" clause. (Now you know the real reason the producers excised the infamous "I thought we should celebrate the tenth anniversary of our last meeting." Believe me, it had nothing to do with DAF!) Bond foils Blofeld and dumps him down the chimney stack. The Bond producers (and their high-priced lawyers) foil McClory's plans dumping Warhead's prospects down a chimney stack. The end for both.

At which point I can hear John Glen saying "Don't be so bloody daft. We didn't give it that much thought. It just seemed a nice idea for a bit of action, really."

I too think the PTS was nothing more than a way to introduce a new Bond actor while saying, don't worry, it's the same old Bond.

[Dustin]

I actually like the new-Bond idea, I never before thought of that. Back in the day - with little factual coverage of FYEO's production in Germany - it seemed a given to me Moore would return after MR.* Today of course hindsight would suggest FYEO might have been a good point to introduce a younger actor. The graveyard scene, despite being so brief, would have gone a long way in giving a new face a proper start.


*Only now I see that Steve Rubin's chapter on FYEO already mentioned rumours about Broccoli supposedly being at an end with Moore and allegedly/hypothetically preferring Lord Lucan for the role; I have totally forgotten about this. Sadly, Rubin doesn't elaborate on the background to this particular PTS.

[0072]

I actually like the new-Bond idea, I never before thought of that. Back in the day - with little factual coverage of FYEO's production in Germany - it seemed a given to me Moore would return after MR.* Today of course hindsight would suggest FYEO might have been a good point to introduce a younger actor. The graveyard scene, despite being so brief, would have gone a long way in giving a new face a proper start.


*Only now I see that Steve Rubin's chapter on FYEO already mentioned rumours about Broccoli supposedly being at an end with Moore and allegedly/hypothetically preferring Lord Lucan for the role; I have totally forgotten about this. Sadly, Rubin doesn't elaborate on the background to this particular PTS.

Yes, well... this explanation certainly seems to make the most sense.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I certainly wouldn't discount the notion that the PTS is a poke at McClory, but at the time -- and pretty much still -- I thought it was there for a very different reason.

 

Namely, at the time FYEO was being put together, Roger Moore's participation was not at all a sure thing.  I believe the PTS was written to introduce a new lead actor.  By having a well-suited, handsome chap leave flowers at Tracy's grave, and fight "Blofeld" (or a reasonable facsimile), they'd be (1) letting us know the guy we're looking at is the new Bond, without him actually having to say "My name is Bond..." and (2) sending a signal that they're shifting gears away from 70s spectacle-and-levity back to the tradition of OHMSS and the early films.  Yes, "Keep your hair on" and the "bombs away" sound effect are jokey, but they also could've been easily tacked on once Roger re-entered the picture (or even in post-production) to add the "Moore" imprimatur.

 

As it stands, the PTS works nicely with Roger in place because it lends to a subtext running through the film that Bond is growing older and feeling the effects of so many years in the spy biz (as witness his rejection of Bibi as too young even for him, and the "what's the point of it all, anyway" ending where he tosses the ATAC away), and also because it nicely sets up his relationship with Melina, whom he tries to dissuade from the soul-eating pursuit of personal vengeance (he's been there himself, after all). Nonetheless, I still think FYEO would've worked just as well, with a slight shift in tone, to introduce a new, younger Bond, and the PTS would have been an important step in that process.

I believe that Dalton was considered for the role at that time. It's interesting to think how that might've turned out:

https://iansadler.fi...y-dalton-2.jpeg
 

[Dustin]

I haven't heard about Dalton at the time, I'm still not sure the search for an alternative was really on until after FYEO. It became a bit difficult to justify the polo necks when they were quite out of fashion outside Bond's world. But overall I suppose at Eon they were willing to give Moore the role as long as he was civil about his paycheque - within limitations.

[AMC Hornet]

I remember an entertainment section headline in 1980: "Roger Moore cries 'foul!' and quits', followed by an article about Moore learning that Broccoli was secretly auditioning for a replacement and saying 'fine, we're done.'

 

According to Moore's own memoirs, this was a dance they engaged in every two years after his initial contract was completed. Even after Michael Billington had been 'announced' as the next Bond, Roger said "Cubby does this every two years - he dusts off his candidates, takes a look at them, then calls me."

 

Being 'civil' about his paycheck meant getting more. He needed it, too, as he claims Cubby always won it back playing Backgammon.

[Dustin]

That about sums it up, a regular game between two old friends who were fierce gamblers - but also kind of 'family'. The benchmark I think always was the Connery phenomenon: as long as there were people willing to see him back - and studio execs who seriously pursued the matter - the feeling was obviously that Moore was still good for the gig. Once that was taken care of after OP the pressure was on to find somebody else. And still Moore got one more go, which leads me to believe Cubby enjoyed the game with his lead actor much more than mere figures can tell.

[trevanian]

Has anyone seen a script for FYEO that has different dialog for the PTS? I mean, the dialog for the comic adaptation reads a lot more Maibaum-serious than what is in the film, and the tone of the comic is what one might expect in a film, with the movie offering more of a comic book / jokey version of same. I remember having a good feeling about FYEO after glancing at the comic's opening, but then rolling my eyes and shaking my head upon seeing the film in the theater a few days later. I kept thinking Moore lightened it up himself, actually, and it put me in a bad mood for the whole viewing. Wasn't even able to enjoy FYEO's more-realworld aspects till the 2nd viewing, the opening bugged me that much, though I remember being impressed at the subtle way they indicated Kristatos was the actual villain, with his choice of wine being too scented for Bond's palate. Also have always wished they didn't ICE STATION ZEBRA the ending with detente, considering how many bodies pile up along the way, which makes the whole thing seem kind of cynical in a way that didn't feel right at all for the Moore era, just as 'friends in low places' seemed like something out of a much more serious movie when in turned up in MR. 

[Dustin]

Not sure about an actual line-by-line influence of Moore on his dialogue, I would have thought that kind of thing was a job for the writers of the final shooting script. Would be interesting to hear about the origin of the deli in stainless steel one day.

I don't buy the concerns about the detente ending though. Indeed, there have been various deaths already on both sides. But nearly all of them were either low key players nobody expects to come through in the end (like the motorcycle attackers or the car crew from Goons-are-Us), freelance agents the KGB and MoD outsourced their operational potential to (the Havelocks, Kristatos' crew) or agents whose raison d'être is to die a violent death at the hands of the opposition sooner or later anyway (like that East-German killer the KGB borrowed from the Stasi; and Bond of course).

So on balance I'd say the body count is roughly in the region of what you would expect from such a jolly venture anyway, just another ordinary working week in the intelligence services. Given the hints about the USSR's knowledge of highly restricted weapons know-how in TSWLM it's perfectly viable that a department inside the Russian apparat is already familiar with the ATAC and that the KGB mounted the operation to retrieve the system from the sunken St Georges only to keep the British side in the dark about the fact. Which the MoD was probably fully aware of. But to keep up appearances - and not alarm the Russians to their own knowledge about theirs - they had to make a show of trying to fetch this Atari console from the sea themselves. And later make a move to prevent it getting to Moscow so the Russians don't smell anything fishy about the affair.

Which explains why all sides used largely personnel they wanted to get rid of anyway...

[SecretAgentFan]

I actually love that "detente" ending.  Unexpected, original and very timely (early 80´s).  One of the best things about FYEO in my mind.

[S K Y F A L L]

I like the PTS of For Your Eyes Only except for the stupid, inane "I'll buy you a delicatessen in stainless steel" line. Otherwise, it's very enjoyable. I just wish Irma Bunt would have been a part of it (or for that matter, Diamonds Are Forever).

I never got that line. Is it a British thing?

[bribond]

My thoughts on it are this:

 

The opening scene at the graveside were written for a new actor but I am not sure about the rest of the sequence.

 

Moore is nicely restrained and serious while at the grave.

 

There is little doubt that the villain is Blofeld with the white cat, and that he is taunting Bond at the site of his wife's grave since his wife died because of Blofeld.  Even though Bond never calls him by name and the villain is speaking in an Italian accent instead of his middle European or British one.

 

The sequence is pretty suspenseful and tightly directed but turns too cheeky once Bond gets the upper hand.

 

The sequence does seem to serve the purpose of saying to McClory either we don't need Blofeld or we are killing him off so audiences won't buy it if you use him in your Thunderball remake (which was in the works at the time).  Ultimately though McClory did have Blofeld in Never Say Never Again but despite casting him well with Max Von Sydow Blofeld made little impression since his scenes were so brief and did not contain any menace.

[AMC Hornet]

Unlike the 'Ice Station Zebra' scenario, the joke in "that's detente, comrade: you don't have it, I don't have it" is that the British still had other ATACs in use - it's really only the Russians who don't have it. Gogol knew it too, hence his amenable departure.

[Vauxhall]

I like the PTS of For Your Eyes Only except for the stupid, inane "I'll buy you a delicatessen in stainless steel" line. Otherwise, it's very enjoyable. I just wish Irma Bunt would have been a part of it (or for that matter, Diamonds Are Forever).

I never got that line. Is it a British thing?

No. It's just nonsense.

[AMC Hornet]

It's an American gangster thing that Cubby wanted to use.

[S K Y F A L L]

I'll buy you a deli all in stainless steel?... I guess that could be enticing... I want a sandwich!