56 replies to this topic

[Gothamite]

Just watched FYEO again and I noticed that Blofeld wasn't in the credits. I had remembered him being there as '?' but perhaps I'd misremembered that.

What's the official stance on who that character is supposed to be? Has John Glen ever acknowledged that it was in fact Ernst Stavro Blofeld and that that was supposed to be Bond finally doing away with him, or have they always remained quiet about it? I've never watched any of the commentaries on FYEO, so perhaps they say something about it there.

Personally, while I like the sequence, once Bond gets the upper-hand the rest is all played for laughs ("All right, keep your hair on!") culminating in a cartoon death that's once again, fairly inconclusive and fairly out-of-sync with the deadlier atmosphere of the rest of the film. Also, did anyone else think the guy providing Blofeld's voice sounded like whoever it was that dubbed over Adolfo Celi in TB? I'd actually swear it was him. They should have tried to get Eric Pohlmann back. But I digress.

An interesting bit of trivia is that in "The Essential Bond" by Lee Worrall and Dave Pfeiffer, they refer to the character as "Villain in Wheelchair" and make no reference to the fact that he's obviously at least a reference to Blofeld. So the legal problems surrounding the character were abound even in 1997 when that book was being written.

Just wondering if anyone has any more information.

Edited by Gothamite, 19 October 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[Dustin]

My impression always was they - they being Eon, Glen and so on, all the involved people - could not acknowledge it was supposed to be Blofeld because the cinematic rights at the time were still with McClory. Dumping that character in that chimney however was of course a direct jab at the contender (who had been working on his TB remake since 76 and had given Eon a hard time during TSWLM production).

[Gothamite]

My impression always was they - they being Eon, Glen and so on, all the involved people - could not acknowledge it was supposed to be Blofeld because the cinematic rights at the time were still with McClory.

Certainly that would appear to be the case, but it's strange that nobody has said anything about over the intervening thirty years (and the conclusion of the Kevin McClory case). John Glen seems to pop up at conventions here and there, I would have thought someone would think to ask him.

Dumping that character in that chimney however was of course a direct jab at the contender (who had been working on his TB remake since 76 and had given Eon a hard time during TSWLM production).

Ahhh...that never occurred to me.

[Dustin]

It's mentioned in Steve Rubin's book. McClory had to wait a full ten years until he could legally do a remake. Of course he was eager to get started as soon as possible, but the project didn't really take off until he could get Connery to become involved during the outline. That must have been around 1976, and once Eon got wind of it they tried to blow McClory out of their waters by the courts. McClory of course was already used to legal shenanigans and took a close look at some of Eon's script versions for TSWLM and found there... - hijacking nuclear submarines and a Blofeld-like villain called 'Stavros'. Surprise, surprise. After that McClory of course threatened to ground Eon's production and there were a number of changes to TSWLM's script that were forced on them in order to stay in business. 'Stavros' became 'Stromberg', all signs of SPECTRE disappeared and even Stromberg's guards got red uniforms instead of the familiar black SPECTRE attire.

Edited by Dustin, 19 October 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[Armand Fancypants]

Just watched FYEO again and I noticed that Blofeld wasn't in the credits. I had remembered him being there as '?' but perhaps I'd misremembered that.

Blofeld gets the "?" in FRWL.

Also, did anyone else think the guy providing Blofeld's voice sounded like whoever it was that dubbed over Adolfo Celi in TB?

Yep, Robert Rietty, who did a ton of Bond voices, including Largo and Tanaka. I think he did work on all the 60s Bond films, but could be wrong there. He dubbed voices on a lot of films in that period, anyway. Can't remember which film it was, but there's one where it seems like every second character is dubbed by Rietty.

Ironic that the one time he ever was on-screen in a Bond film is NSNA.

On the subject of Stromberg/Blofeld, perhaps EON should have just called him Shatterhand. Could McClory have done anything in that instance?

[Dustin]

Can't say, no idea if that would have been possible. Ultimately the sequence is short and to-the-point and no giving the character a name is actually the more elegant solution in my view.

[Armand Fancypants]

Can't say, no idea if that would have been possible. Ultimately the sequence is short and to-the-point and no giving the character a name is actually the more elegant solution in my view.

I meant for TSWLM.

[Dustin]

Can't say, no idea if that would have been possible. Ultimately the sequence is short and to-the-point and no giving the character a name is actually the more elegant solution in my view.

I meant for TSWLM.

Sorry, didn't get that.

Well, as far as TSWLM was concerned the trouble never was what McClory could have won in the courts in the long run, but what Eon might have lost if their running production had been grounded for an indefinite period by a lawsuit. The way I understand the situation they didn't battle it out simply because a lawsuit might have ended the production for good, and perhaps even the whole series - regardless of the eventual outcome. Eon did the only sensible thing, they steered clear of any potential trouble by eliminating all traces of elements McClory might claim intellectual property of. Eon didn't want to explore the boundaries of how close they could sail the SPECTRE/Blofeld shore, they just wanted to get their landmark Bond film done.

[QuantumOfRoyale]

Can't say, no idea if that would have been possible. Ultimately the sequence is short and to-the-point and no giving the character a name is actually the more elegant solution in my view.

I meant for TSWLM.

Sorry, didn't get that.

Well, as far as TSWLM was concerned the trouble never was what McClory could have won in the courts in the long run, but what Eon might have lost if their running production had been grounded for an indefinite period by a lawsuit. The way I understand the situation they didn't battle it out simply because a lawsuit might have ended the production for good, and perhaps even the whole series - regardless of the eventual outcome. Eon did the only sensible thing, they steered clear of any potential trouble by eliminating all traces of elements McClory might claim intellectual property of. Eon didn't want to explore the boundaries of how close they could sail the SPECTRE/Blofeld shore, they just wanted to get their landmark Bond film done.

That may be so, but what purpose REALLY did having this PTS have? Now, I'm not the biggest fan of DAF as a conclusion to the Blofeld-storyline, but at least it was A conclusion, and allowed the filmmakers to move on and try some new stories for the next four movies. Why all of a sudden did they decide that TEN YEARS LATER, they needed to wiggle their way around a lawsuit to give this storyline ANOTHER conclusion? It's actually quite baffling.

Plus, people constantly praise FYEO as being Moore's gritty, serious, down to Earth Bond film, but this PTS is anything but! It's got bad puns, cartoonish villains, out-of-this-world stunts, and a conclusion that's laughable. It completely doesn't work in the context of the series or even in the movie it's in!

In my honest opinion, the one good part of this PTS was showing Moore Bond mourning over Tracy's grave. I always found that to be the most poignant moment of the entire film.

[Dustin]

I think the only reason for FYEO's pts was to have the last laugh on McClory, show him they weren't afraid of his project. McClory had sold his rights to Schwartzman and became executive producer for the remake in exchange, a crucial step for the whole venture, indicating it now really was to become reality - if Connery would agree to come back. Connery had played coy about that since the mid-70s, but everybody in the business seemed to be sure it was merely a question of the figure on his paycheque. So during the entire production of FYEO Eon was aware the contender was getting ready to play ball. The pts was their way of saying 'So what?'

[Single-O-Seven]

Can't say, no idea if that would have been possible. Ultimately the sequence is short and to-the-point and no giving the character a name is actually the more elegant solution in my view.

I meant for TSWLM.

Sorry, didn't get that.

Well, as far as TSWLM was concerned the trouble never was what McClory could have won in the courts in the long run, but what Eon might have lost if their running production had been grounded for an indefinite period by a lawsuit. The way I understand the situation they didn't battle it out simply because a lawsuit might have ended the production for good, and perhaps even the whole series - regardless of the eventual outcome. Eon did the only sensible thing, they steered clear of any potential trouble by eliminating all traces of elements McClory might claim intellectual property of. Eon didn't want to explore the boundaries of how close they could sail the SPECTRE/Blofeld shore, they just wanted to get their landmark Bond film done.

That may be so, but what purpose REALLY did having this PTS have? Now, I'm not the biggest fan of DAF as a conclusion to the Blofeld-storyline, but at least it was A conclusion, and allowed the filmmakers to move on and try some new stories for the next four movies. Why all of a sudden did they decide that TEN YEARS LATER, they needed to wiggle their way around a lawsuit to give this storyline ANOTHER conclusion? It's actually quite baffling.

Plus, people constantly praise FYEO as being Moore's gritty, serious, down to Earth Bond film, but this PTS is anything but! It's got bad puns, cartoonish villains, out-of-this-world stunts, and a conclusion that's laughable. It completely doesn't work in the context of the series or even in the movie it's in!

In my honest opinion, the one good part of this PTS was showing Moore Bond mourning over Tracy's grave. I always found that to be the most poignant moment of the entire film.

I think there is also a purposeful metaphor with the pretitles sequence. As you mentioned, it's over the top and pun-riddled, much like Moore's past two films. They quickly do away with that style of film by tossing out a nameless Blofeld-type figure who might be seen as something of the archetype of those big villains and outlandish plots. Once that is complete, the story is free to settle back to Earth and pursue human villains in a less fanciful way. Just my tuppence.

[Gothamite]

Blofeld gets the "?" in FRWL.

I'm quite sure he was credited as 'Ernst Blofeld......?' in FRWL. That's probably where the confusion came from.

Edited by Gothamite, 20 October 2012 - 03:01 PM.

[Tony_OO_Black]

I've always taken it as a big joke, an excruciatingly bad one, but a joke nonetheless. Could well have been at Kevin McClory.

There's no mention of this as I recall, but check out The Battle for Bond by Robert Sellers for some great detail at McClory's attempts to make a Bond film in the 1970's.

[Scottlee]

It's obviously Blofeld in the PTS! Bond kills him and that's that; he hasn't been seen in Bond films since. Because he's dead.

I've never noticed the rest of the film's tone not being in sync with the PTS. Is it really cartoony to kill someone (a wheelchair bound person, no less!) by dropping him into a chimney stack after he's begged for mercy? I wouldn't say so. This is far more a vicious death than Loque's, and yet Loque's has always drawn the most attention.

Also, consider this, would Bond even kill this guy if it wasn't Blofeld? Would he seriously drop him if he was just a non-entity in a wheelchair? I don't think so. I think he'd scare the pants off him and then drop him, safely, into a haystack from about ten feet off the ground. It's the guy who murdered his wife though, so Bond drops him into a chimney stack, in doing so inflicting one of the nastiest deaths in the series.

[lazenbyland]

I remember watching a clip from the FYEO Blofeld scene when they showed the premiere highlights in the UK. I thought it looked fantastic and after Moonraker I was really looking forward to seeing a down to earth Bond film again with SPECTRE. I wasn't aware of the legal shenanigans at the time. I thought the helicoptr scene would be in the main plot of the film.

When I got round to seeing it at the cinema, I agree it was good to see Bond visit Tracy's grave which I thought was to set the plot for the film but then to have the whole Blofeld/chimney stack was just dreadful. A real waste of what could have been a fabulous part of the film. And the injuries to Blofeld were from OHMSS whereas in DAF, Blofeld was injury free.

It was good to see some decent action scenes in the film and elements of the Fleming novels used but when I saw the film I was waiting for Blofeld and SPECTRE to appear again in a plot twist but they never did. A real disappointment.

And the Thatcher scene should have been left on the cutting room floor. That ruined the rest of the film.

I remember John Glen saying that it was most like OHMSS. It was NOTHING like OHMSS. I much prefer Octopussy to FYEO.


I preferred FYEO to Moonraker at the time but after many years I much prefer Moonraker which at least kept a constant theme.

[Turn]

I've read there was a line in the script that the Blofeld character mentions the 10th anniversary of their last meeting that was later eliminated for legal reasons. It also appears in the Marvel Comics adaptation of FYEO. I wonder how that slipped through.

I agree with the above mentions of the PTS being a perfect example of going against the supposed serious tone of the film when it seemed they were reluctant to go all out and kept in the goofy humor. OP is a better blend IMO, and MR a lot more fun. The serious stuff in MR seems to make more of an impact in that film as opposed to the goofieness in the "serious" FYEO.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

On his commentary track Sir Roger refers to him as Blofeld who was not called Blofeld.

[L4YRCAKE]

I've always taken it as a big joke, an excruciatingly bad one, but a joke nonetheless. Could well have been at Kevin McClory.

There's no mention of this as I recall, but check out The Battle for Bond by Robert Sellers for some great detail at McClory's attempts to make a Bond film in the 1970's.

'The Battle For Bond' is a terrific book, I recommend it highly. I believe I'm correct though that since its publication Eon has (fairly recently) finally regained the rights to SPECTRE & Blofeld.

The opening sequence of FYEO is a direct middle finger to McClory et. al. from Eon; he has the neck brace from the ending of OHMSS, Bond visits Tracy's grave, which has the quote 'We Have All The Time In The World', etc., etc. Dropping the character down the chimney was Eon's way of saying, 'Fine. We didn't need you anyways.'

[Shaun Forever]

Mr Booooooooooooond!

[Kelly Smith]

I always thought it was possible Blofeld's condition in FYEO was a result of Bond smashing his bathosub(sp?) repeatedly against the control room wall in DAF.

[Peckinpah1976]

While all of the above Re it being a dig at Kevin McClory is true; the whole point of the PTS was to establish that the new actor in the lead role was the same character from the previous films (he is of course visiting Tracy's grave at the start) but this idea was redundant once Moore decided to continue after MR.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I always thought it was possible Blofeld's condition in FYEO was a result of Bond smashing his bathosub(sp?) repeatedly against the control room wall in DAF.

That's the way I've always looked at it.

[Revelator]

While all of the above Re it being a dig at Kevin McClory is true; the whole point of the PTS was to establish that the new actor in the lead role was the same character from the previous films (he is of course visiting Tracy's grave at the start) but this idea was redundant once Moore decided to continue after MR.

Correct. Moore had made noises about making his last Bond film, and my suspicion is that FYEO was initially written to break in a new Bond with a back-to-basics approach. When Moore stayed on as Bond, the script was probably re-tailored slightly toward Moore (including the cartoonish turn taken by the pre-credits scene), but the realistic approach stayed for the most part. The sequence therefore emphasizes the continuity of Bond's history and also blows a raspberry at the awful McClory. Interestingly, it does so by pretending Diamonds Are Forever never existed--in OHMSS a bald Blofeld is left in a neck-brace, just like FYEO version. Considering how DAF pretended that OHMSS didn't exist, it might be rough justice.

I forget where I read it, but one author suggested that the stainless-steel delicatessen line was suggested by Moore. A rare lapse in Sir Roger's wit. Imagine how good that scene would have been if Blofeld hadn't turned into such a yapping buffoon.

[Dustin]

Most interesting, this never occurred to me. Indeed, there has been talk about Lewis Collins at the time, but I always supposed that was for the most part smokescreen to keep Moore from too outlandish demands. I never looked at FYEO as having been written for someone else.

[doublenoughtspy]

Correct. Moore had made noises about making his last Bond film, and my suspicion is that FYEO was initially written to break in a new Bond with a back-to-basics approach. When Moore stayed on as Bond, the script was probably re-tailored slightly toward Moore (including the cartoonish turn taken by the pre-credits scene)

The Tracy grave scene was put in to provide continuity for a new actor, but they left it in even when Roger signed. There is no indication in the drafts I've read that they became jokier with Moore back on board. Of course the ad libs...

There was a specific reference to "the 10th anniversary of our last meeting" but that line wasn't filmed.

I forget where I read it, but one author suggested that the stainless-steel delicatessen line was suggested by Moore. A rare lapse in Sir Roger's wit. Imagine how good that scene would have been if Blofeld hadn't turned into such a yapping buffoon.

Regardless of where you read it, it isn't true. The line came from Cubby Broccoli. (Source: FYEO audio commentary)

[OHMSS Fan]

Please note that Robert Rietty , who provided the voice for blofeld in pre-credits sequence, and tanaka, commander strangways, and Largo has died Aged 92, april 2015.

[glidrose]

I recall an interview John Glen gave to Starburst (?) magazine where he said the PTS was his idea. He thought it would be a nice way to introduce a new Bond. Tho' Albert Broccoli wasn't too fond of the pts idea at first.

 

Here's another theory (or two). Bond gets revenge against the man who killed his wife in the PTS. Melina gets revenge (by proxy) against the man who killed her parents. A neat bookend structure.

 

Consider Bond's line to Melina: "Before setting out on revenge, you first dig two graves."

 

Has anybody ever realized just how dumb and drippy Bond's lines & sentiments are? If he had let Melina kill Kristatos the British would have had a much easier time retrieving the ATAC. That's good ol' British Intelligence for you!

[stromberg]

Please note that Robert Rietty , who provided the voice for blofeld in pre-credits sequence, and tanaka, commander strangways, and Largo has died Aged 92, april 2015.

Sad news. He was the "Nikki van der Zyl of the male Bond actors" (and they were good friends - he knew her father). But contrary to her, he actually got to play small roles in Bond movies: a casino employée in OHMSS (the one who gets upset because Tracy has got no money) and an Italian minister in NSNA.

 

R.I.P.

[Dustin]

Very sad to hear about Rietty, I never knew how much work he actually did on the series.

RIP

Consider Bond's line to Melina: "Before setting out on revenge, you first dig two graves."

Has anybody ever realized just how dumb and drippy Bond's lines & sentiments are? If he had let Melina kill Kristatos the British would have had a much easier time retrieving the ATAC. That's good ol' British Intelligence for you!

Indeed. On the other hand I took that sentiment to be mainly a show of Bond's protective feelings for Melina, not any kind of actual operative professionalism. Chances are once Melina pokes Kristatos with an arrow she might not be able leave the premises without undue furore. Like, a ski-motorcycle chase across a well-populated ski resort or a car chase with a series of shootouts and explosions. Can't trust a civilist with that...

[dtuba]

Sad about Robert Rietty, but he shouldn't have had to do all those voices. The producers should have cast actors who can speak their own lines, rather than dubbing fake "ethnic" voices. I'm just glad Akiko Wakabayashi got to keep her own speaking voice on camera.

 

Regarding FYEO, I always felt like it was a genuine attempt to address the events of OHMSS rather than to give them fleeting lip service (TSWLM) or to outright ignore them ( all the rest).