104 replies to this topic

[JimmyBond]

Had Spottiswoode taken the offer, TWINE could have been even better of a film.

Wow, i never knew he'd been asked.

I know they ask back every director they work with. Even Forster was given an offer to direct Skyfall, can you imagine how that would have gone over with a faction of the Bond community?*

*My opinion of Quantum is still that it's a very good movie.

[Odd Jobbies]

I agree QoS is indeed a good movie - miraculous considering the writers' strike. If not for that it may have been a great movie. Then again the strike had nothing to do with Forster's inexperience covering action scenes.

However, he's obviously a smart guy - he's made a few really good films - so he would doubtless have improved/learnt from his mistakes. GE is a very good Bond movie, but CR is truly great. A lot is down to the presence of Craig and Haggis, and the fun of a reboot, but i think it's a better directed film than GE.

So i guess i'm saying i agree with the idea of getting directors back for another go - it would likely always be an improvement. But only an improvement within that director's current trajectory. I think Mendes is in another league (most of the time) to any Bond director thus far, so i'm very pleased he's onboard instead of any of the previous directors and i hope he has another go at it, regardless of Skyfall's success.

Maybe next time the timing will work out better and Mendes will manage to snag his oft colleague Kevin Spacey for a villain role. In anyone else's hands Spacey might deliver a hackneyed 'Spacey' performance, but with the partnership that produced Spacey's Lester Burnham in American Beauty as well as an apparently impressive Richard III, it could be a real treat.

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 02 August 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[Henry-Jones-Sr]

I agree with some of the above contributors that The World Is Not Enough is a very drab film.

As soon as the Thames chase begins, David Arnold's most boring piece of music ever begins and accompanies the entire scene. So that, together with the brown/grey cinematography, makes what should have been a thrilling sequence one of the dullest.

The same goes for the microlight snow attack. It just flatlines.

Which brings me on to Vic Armstrong. The man is a great stunt co-ordinator but a deathly dull second unit director. It was always drives me nuts that every Bond film employs a 2nd U/D to handle the action because the film always ends up feeling pretty anonymous and off the shelf. I'm thrilled Sam Mendes is doing the whole thing himself and I hope it sets a new precedent.

Even the title sequence was a let down! It started fantastically with the black oil on white background, but as soon as it turned into oily colour it just looked ugly.

Apart from that, it's a not a bad film at all. I liked the dynamic between Bond and the villains, it just needed an adrenaline shot.

[DamnCoffee]

Finally got some inspiration to continue with my Bond 50 Trailers. Here's one I just cooked up for TWINE.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Nice work Mharkin, I have just spend an hour watching all of your Bond 50 trailers. Keep them coming.

[Trevelyan 006]

I'm a Robert Carlyle fan and I love Istanbul as a Bond location. I'm a fan of The World Is Not Enough, naturally.

The Nintendo 64 game was great too...

[bey-columbo]

Sophie Marceau does not act goodly. His acting is weak and superficial.
Same remark to Denise Richards.
But they are both sexy.

Robert Carlyle is better, but not as good as Jonathan Pryce or Toby Stephens or the Robert Carlyle we can see in Trainspotting.

Pierce Brosnan, Judi Dench and Robbie Coltrane are really good.
"The insurance compagny is never going to believe this !" LOL

A very interesting question about TWINE :

Who's really the mean ? Is it Renard or Elektra ?? Renard is present in the action like Jaws or Necros, but he seems to be presented as the main bad guy, the brain of the operation. But there is no introducing class conversation between him and Bond, as the 007 "tradition" wants.
Conversation with Goldfinger in the golf, with Largo in his villa, with Stromberg, Drax, Zorin, and even Sanchez... not with Renard.

However, Elektra has got a conversation with Bond in Azerbaidjan, like a Goldfinger or a Drax. And she is the manager of the firm, like Drax, Zorin, Goldfinger, Carver...

Is Elektra the first woman to stand as the mean in the saga ?? Or is Renard the mean ??

Edited by bey-columbo, 16 October 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[Pussfeller]

I've always seen Renard as a glorified henchman. He's a stock character, his persona is cartoonish, and he doesn't initiate the villainous scheme. He merely facilitates it. Also, his whole character is based around a physiological gimmick, which is typical of a henchman. On the other hand, Elektra is the architect and beneficiary of the whole plot, and her character is much more fully realized and three-dimensional. She's one of the more interesting villains of the series. It's a shame that she unravels completely in the third act. Once Bond has escaped from the torture chair, Elektra has a clear opportunity to escape and carry on with her plan. But she inexplicably (and conveniently) transforms from a machiavellian mastermind into a suicidal ditz. Instead of escaping or summoning a few more goons, she runs to a room and waits for Bond to come and shoot her.

[Vauxhall]

I love Istanbul as a Bond location.

Me too. Istanbul is one of my favourite cities in the world, but I think they absolutely wasted it in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH. Most of the main cast didn't even film there, and lots of it was second unit work with extra plates taken around the Bosphorus and Maiden's Tower. That was disappointing to me.

[JimmyBond]

After I saw the film in theaters for the first time, I had it in my head that after Bond is captured in Istanbul, there's a shot of him held at gunpoint on the boat as they make their way to Maiden's Tower. Obviously it was a false memory, but I can't help but think that would have been a striking shot, and I can't imagine why they didn't have something like that in the film initially.

[Iceskater101]

In the World is not Enough, I consider Electra to be the main bond villain. She is the one who comes up with the plan on killing her father and taking the oil. I see Renard as more of a henchman even though he psychologically and physically abused her and made her think that her father was the bad guy, still I consider him as the henchman. I have a sweet spot for this film, my mom doesn't like it to much but I do. I mean I think it is cool that there is a main bond villain that's a girl. I think it is sad what happened to her, but it makes her a better villain. It would have been cool if she would have run from Bond and there would have been a fight scene or something, but that's just me.

[seawolfnyy]

In the World is not Enough, I consider Electra to be the main bond villain. She is the one who comes up with the plan on killing her father and taking the oil. I see Renard as more of a henchman even though he psychologically and physically abused her and made her think that her father was the bad guy, still I consider him as the henchman. I have a sweet spot for this film, my mom doesn't like it to much but I do. I mean I think it is cool that there is a main bond villain that's a girl. I think it is sad what happened to her, but it makes her a better villain. It would have been cool if she would have run from Bond and there would have been a fight scene or something, but that's just me.

I see Renard and Elektra as both main villains. The reasoning being that while Elektra is the one who comes up with the plot, Renard is the one who kidnaps and brainwashes her. And on top of that he gets so much screen time to consider him more than a henchman. I see FRWL the same way, as while Red Grant is considered a henchman, he gets more emphasis in the story than Rosa Klebb making them more of equals than villain/sidekick.

[JimmyBond]

Renard never brainwashes Elektra, it's the other way around. Bond believes he's the cause of it, but as Elektra explains to Bond when she's torturing him, she's the one that turned him.

[seawolfnyy]

Renard never brainwashes Elektra, it's the other way around. Bond believes he's the cause of it, but as Elektra explains to Bond when she's torturing him, she's the one that turned him.

So was kidnapped part of her plan then? I thought it was stockholm syndrome and her mind had just deteriorated so much at the end, that she thought she was the one who was leading everything.

[JimmyBond]

The kidnapping wasn't planned. But from Elektra's point of view, it was a happy accident. Once kidnapped she seduced Renard and got him to go along with her plan of revenge against her father.

[seawolfnyy]

Hmm, I guess I never saw it that way.

[SolidWaffle]

I really like this film as well. I just watched it again last night. I think it plays with who James Bond is in a lot of ways, most notably through Elektra being the real villian. The idea of the MAIN Bond girl being the villain is cliche now, but I think it effectively explores Bond and M. I don't think Denise Richards did a good job and that's the main issue with the film. What this film accomplishes is a great balance of action, of story, and fun. It's no Casino Royale, Goldfinger, or From Russia With Love. And I'll always like GoldenEye because it has a special place in my heart. But TWINE definitely falls under my category of Bond films worth watching.

[JimmyBond]

Hmm, I guess I never saw it that way.

It's not an interpretion, it's information the movie reveals.

Edited by JimmyBond, 16 October 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[seawolfnyy]

Hmm, I guess I never saw it that way.

It's not an interpretion, it's information the movie reveals.

Well I always thought that the moment Elektra changed was when her father refused to pay up.
Bond "You killed your father."
Elektra "He killed me. He killed me the day he refused to pay my ransom."

[JimmyBond]

You're correct on that one. It has been a while since I've seen the movie. It was that point when she decided to turn Renard and get revenge on her father. Though before that she did have a grudge against her father because she felt he stole the Oil that belonged to her mother's family.

[Iceskater101]

^ Yeah. I mean I think she always didn't like her father and then when she got kidnapped, she was like well maybe this guy can help me. I didn't always see it that way, I had to watch it a few times before to see that this isn't the classic case of stockholm syndrome, she had a grudge against her father before.

[seawolfnyy]

You're probably right on the rest too. The thing about TWINE for me is that it is the one Bond film that seems to get worse every time I watch it. When it originally came out I thought it was great. It seemed to be a more down to Earth entry and tried to explore Bond's character. However, the more I watch it the more I only seem to see it's faults. Many people give Brosnan a lot of credit for his portrayal, but I think it's his weakest turn as Bond. He justs seems nervous and twitchy the whole time. Granted, the scene when he shoots Elektra is brilliant. The PTS is WAY TOO long. Istanbul is misused. Denise Richards is terrible. The chemistry between Brosnan and Marceau is non-existant. Robert Carlyle is a weaker choice for a villain than Mathieu Almaric. I just think TWINE spends far too much time taking itself too seriously and trying to be a classic Bond film. The best parts are easily the Q scene, Elektra's death and the title song, which I think is the strongest of the Brosnan era. From what I've gathered about Skyfall, it seems to be the film that TWINE was trying to be.

[Iceskater101]

I disagree about Marceau and Pierce not having chemistry. I think that is the opposite, I think they had a lot of chemistry. I think Denise Richards is bad and I agree with you there.

[S K Y F A L L]

I thought Marceau was a fine actor and worked well for the film but I'm not a fan of hers or most of the TWINE cast for that matter. Denise Richards a bio-chemist or whatever, who's the joker who made that choice? They must have been a big fan of 'Wild Things.'

[Belmont]

Of all of the Bond films, this one is the most strangely average. It exists in that strange, nebulous zone in which nothing is especially bad or good about it - Just average in every department. Not even the score can rise above the sea of gray.

Exceptions:

- Pierce Brosnan is great as Bond, and this is his most nuanced and confident performance. It's his best work in the role.
- Renard, as written and portrayed, is a total misfire.
- The "Scotland castle" branch of Mi6. Nice callback to the days where the office would move to unusual locations.

Edited by Belmont, 17 October 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[seawolfnyy]

Of all of the Bond films, this one is the most strangely average. It exists in that strange, nebulous zone in which nothing is especially bad or good about it - Just average in every department. Not even the score can rise above the sea of gray.

Exceptions:

- Pierce Brosnan is great as Bond, and this is his most nuanced and confident performance. It's his best work in the role.
- Renard, as written and portrayed, is a total misfire.
- The "Scotland castle" branch of Mi6. Nice callback to the days where the office would move to unusual locations.

I may be alone in thinking this, but I just don't think Pierce gives a good portrayal in this film. Like the whole film itself, he seems to be trying too hard. TWINE tries too hard to be a classic Bond film and just falls flat. I do like the Scotland field office though and am glad to see it's back in Skyfall. The parallels between the two films are interesting: Istanbul, MI6 attack, M targeted, Scotland, mysterious Bond girl played by a French actress, a new Q. I still think Skyfall will be the film that TWINE tries so hard to be.

[00 Brosnan]

I want to like TWINE, there are definitely parts I like and that standout to me, but overall the film is a let down for me. Overall it just comes off as sort of boring. I mean, Sophie Marceau does a wonderful job as the villain and I have no issues with Brosnan, but the script just doesn't do it for me.

I really enjoyed the river chase and the shootout underground was fun. One of the better title songs of the last 20 years as well.

It's my least liked Brosnan Bond film.

[seawolfnyy]

Agreed on the title song. I also think it's the best since The Living Daylights.

[Miles Miservy]

In the World is not Enough, I consider Electra to be the main bond villain. She is the one who comes up with the plan on killing her father and taking the oil. I see Renard as more of a henchman even though he psychologically and physically abused her and made her think that her father was the bad guy, still I consider him as the henchman. I have a sweet spot for this film, my mom doesn't like it to much but I do. I mean I think it is cool that there is a main bond villain that's a girl. I think it is sad what happened to her, but it makes her a better villain. It would have been cool if she would have run from Bond and there would have been a fight scene or something, but that's just me.

Spot on.
That's what sets it apart from all the others.

[Iceskater101]

Spot on.
That's what sets it apart from all the others.

Yeah and that's why I like it.