45 replies to this topic

[rubixcub]

Has this been leaked yet? Odd that they would announce the casting but not the name, as though the name would spoil anything (most likely). What's in a name?

Dave

[007jamesbond]

No we probably wont learn until near the end of production.........they keeping their lips sealed

[Quantumofsolace007]

not yet no

[The Shark]

Dave

His name's Dave?

[MattofSteel]

Didn't someone in another thread say something about a rumour that his name was 'David Ristori' ?

[Pussfeller]

Yes, and that turned out to be the name of a blogger or something.

[Vauxhall]

Yes, and that turned out to be the name of a blogger or something.

Correct. Blogger and seemingly a former CBn forum member!

[killkenny kid]

Yes, and that turned out to be the name of a blogger or something.

Correct. Blogger and seemingly a former CBn forum member!

My my, you can't make some of this stuff.

[Captain Tightpants]

Odd that they would announce the casting but not the name, as though the name would spoil anything (most likely).

EON very deliberately didn't announce any names. If appears that some of the actors were allowed to give details of their characters away, but some actors - like Ralph Fiennes - have character names that fans might recognise. In order to keep everything under wraps for as long as possible, most of the names have been kept secret so that the list of potential characters for each actor to be playing is broadened.

What's in a name?

Everything, really. A character's name should fit them like a tailored suit. When Ian Fleming created James Bond, he chose the name because it was simply - two syllables - but decidedly masculine. The image your mind's eye sees when you hear the name "James Bond" is very different to the image you would see if you heard the name "Percival St. Clair".

The names of Bond villains tend to fall into three groups. The is what I call the "harsh name", which often uses harder constonants and unusual combinations of letter. Karl Stromberg is the prime example of this; you have the hard "K" sound tapering of into "arl", while "Stromberg" has the uncommon "mb" sound in it.

The second group is the "subtle name", which are names that are written one way, but pronounced another. Emilio Largo is the best example of this - both uses of the "i" in his name are pronounced with an "e" sound. So, while his name is "Emilio", it is pronounced "Eh-mee-lee-oh". It's very fitting, because the first time we see Largo, he is visiting an aid agency in Paris, only to use a hidden door to access the SPECTRE meeting.

Finally, there is the "weak name". These aren't bad names, but names that are made up of softer sounds. Le Chiffre is the most notable version of this. No one sound dominates his name, so it comes across as weak and insipid - just as Le Chiffre himself is.

So, what's in a name? I'd argue everything. A name should conjure up an image in your mind the moment you hear it. The name isn't the character, but it should go a long way to establishing the character's physical appearance. A lot of this will hinge on the nationality of Bardem's character - he could reasonably play someone from anywhere in the Mediterranean or Latin America. He could be a Cuban, a Cypriot, a Moroccan or a Chilean.

[RJJB]

How is the pronunciation of Emilio Largo's indicative of anything hidden or secretive? You need to face reality that different vowels can have different sounds, especially in foreign languages. Talk about a waste of time. That's time with a long "i", not "teem".

[Captain Tightpants]

How is the pronunciation of Emilio Largo's indicative of anything hidden or secretive?

Because, as you say:

different vowels can have different sounds

Different vowels can have different sounds. Emilio Largo's name is pronounced slightly differently to the way it is written; in other words, what you see and what you get are not the same - just as the building Largo visits appears to be an aid agency, but actually houses the SPECTRE high command. Bear in mind that this is not something that film makes an issue of; my point was more to demonstrate that one of the naming conventions of Bond villains. Alec Trevalyan is another example - his name is spelt "Trevalyan", but many pronounce it "Tre-valley-enn".

[ggl]

And what about someone called Dr. Julius No or Auric Goldfinger?

A little obvious nowadays, but in the 50´s or 60´s those were really amazing and thrilling names...

[Jim]

How is the pronunciation of Emilio Largo's indicative of anything hidden or secretive?

Because, as you say:

different vowels can have different sounds

Different vowels can have different sounds. Emilio Largo's name is pronounced slightly differently to the way it is written; in other words, what you see and what you get are not the same - just as the building Largo visits appears to be an aid agency, but actually houses the SPECTRE high command. Bear in mind that this is not something that film makes an issue of; my point was more to demonstrate that one of the naming conventions of Bond villains. Alec Trevalyan is another example - his name is spelt "Trevalyan", but many pronounce it "Tre-valley-enn".

Entertaingly preposterous theory. NB it's Trevelyan.

[Captain Tightpants]

Well, we're drifting away from from the point: there are three kinds of Bond villain names - those with hard sounds and unusual letter combinations, those that are written one way and pronounced another, and those that have no realy dominant vowel sounds to them.

[Pussfeller]

What about "Brad Whitaker"?

[Captain Tightpants]

He falls into the first category. There's a hard "t" and a hard "k" sound in his name.

[Jim]

Ralph Fiennes?

[Captain Tightpants]

The name of the actor, not the character. Even so, he pronounces it "Rafe Fines", in which case the 'a' and the 'i' sounds are dominant.

[Jim]

This is fun.

Daniel Craig

[SecretAgentFan]

EON very deliberately didn't announce any names. If appears that some of the actors were allowed to give details of their characters away, but some actors - like Ralph Fiennes - have character names that fans might recognise.

Well, that´s why I still think that these names are for characters that are well known in Bond fandom. Why else would they want to keep the names secret? Would it have spoiled anything if I had known before that the villain in AVTAK was names Zorin? Or that the codename for Vesper was Stephanie Broadchest?

Naw. They keep it secret because otherwise we would go: Fiennes is "Messervy", Harris is "Moneypenny", Finney is "Blofeld" and Bardem is... well, don´t know.

[Pussfeller]

A theory just occurred to me: Given that a substantial part of the film looks to be set in Turkey, and parts of it in China, I bet that Bardem will play a renegade Turkish military man associated with the Grey Wolves (or a fictionalized version thereof). This group is pan-Turkist, with a history of supporting the Turkic Uyghurs in Xinjiang against the PRC government; they are also hardline anti-European nationalists, and opposed to the moderate faction that currently governs Turkey. The Turkish authorities would probably not object to this kind of villain, as long as their own people are shown to be incorruptible, wise, and handsome. Bardem could easily pass for a Turk, and he's the right age to be a colonel or something.

[Captain Tightpants]

I could see him as a Turk ... but I can't see the plot hinging on ethnic politics. And I don't think Turkey would be too upset with a Turkish villain so long as he did not commit his acts in the name of Turkey and/or he was supported by the government in Ankara. I'm also having trouble seeing where the "Skyfall" might fit into that, but if I may borrow some of your ideas, I do have a theory. About six weeks ago, I came up with this theory about what "Skyfall" is, hypothesising that it might be a way of harnessing mass hysteria and paranoia, using it as a weapon:

When news first broke that BOND 23 could be SKYFALL, a lot of people turned to Chicken Little and the saying "the sky is falling, go and tell the king". But what if there is no king to tell? "Skyfall" could be a Cold War-era plan to capitalise on the power of paranoia and hysteria - to stage an attack on Russia that would force the Soviet high command to double back and regroup, creating a vacuum in leadership. While the Russians are in the process of evaluating the situation, MI6 moves to mislead Soviet citizens into believing they are leaderless through a disinformation campaign. When the Russian high command finally comes back on-line, they find that the Soviet Union is fractured into hundreds of stateless pockets of people, and they have to spend time getting everything back in order, distracting them from the rest of the world. It would be a way of incapacitating the government without actually firing a single shot. "Skyfall" would take advantage of paranoia and hysteria, leading people to believe they are in a crisis and have no-one to lead them. The plan, however, would never have been put into action - until the events of SKYFALL, when someone uses it against London. With information that the attack is real, MI6 and the government are forced to suspend their operations, regroup, and await futher intelligence. In the meantime, England is rudderless.

This connects to Turkey quite nicely through the Ergenekon, a deep-state ultranationalist movement whose existence has never been proven despite the Turkish government prosecuting more than five hundred people for it. Ergenekon has also been accused of masterminding every terrorist attack in Turkey for the past thirty years, but there has been no conclusive evidence to support their existence. Ergenekon supposedly has similarities to Counter-Guerilla, an anti-communist force left in Turkey after the end of the Second World War, which itself was born out of NATO's Operation Gladio, which achieved similar aims in Italy. It is named for a mythical, inaccessible mountain valley in the Altai Mountains, near the place were Russia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia and China all meet.

What if Javier Bardem is a part of Ergenekon, the current name of Counter-Guerilla? Turkey was a major strategic stronghold during the Cold War - American Minuteman missiles were stationed there (before being removed as a result of the Cuban Missile Crisis). Counter-Guellia would have been supported by MI6 during the Cold War to maintain a presence in Turkey without appearing to do so, to gather intelligence on Soviet activities, and to prevent Turkey from undergoing a coup that could have aligned the country with the USSR. MI6 may have even trained them as a stay-behind force so that in the event Turkey was over-run, Counter-Guerilla could keep the Soviets busy for years. But with the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Counter-Guerilla was a highly-trained force with nowhere to go. They would rename themselves Ergenekon, and hold England accountable. Wanting to establish their own state, they would turn on MI6 to try and force their hand.

[univex]

Nice, very nice. Thumbs up for that Cap.

[Captain Tightpants]

Well, it took me a while to get it all together. But the problem with the Ergenekon as a villainous group is that they're really limited to Turkey, and there is no real proof that they exist - a lot of people believe that they are a phantom organisation, created to scare the population into submission. It's a problem because people reacted negatively to the way Bond was fighting for Bolivia in QUANTUM OF SOLACE. The plot worked because Bolivia is a developing country, too far away from anything of note to reasonably affect things, so the likes of MI6 and the CIA would not really have a problem with a coup there. But at the same time, it did alienate Bond a little bit - he's a British secret agent, and a lot of people felt he should be dealing with threats to England, not Bolivia (although Quantum were a threat because they could mislead England into doing something relatively wrong). So I think that Counter-Guerrilla would be a better model for a villainous Turkish group, but they haven't been active in decades, so it's a little difficult to see how someone as young as Javier Bardem would be leading them.

Anyway, back to the actual topic: if Bardem is Turkish, then what would his name be? I think the Turkish language has some potential for some good Bond villain names, but it's easy to get garried away and make something too complex, like "Ozcelikoglu". This is a list of given names in Turkish, and this is a list of Turkish surnames, and I've looked through them to make some names that I like to give a feel for how a Turkish villain's name might sound:

Levent ("handsome") Kundakci ("master of the rifle")
Ilhan ("ruler") Burakgazi ("warrior of faith")
Altan ("red dawn") Karga ("crow")

[univex]

I remember us playing the name game before Captain, didn´t we? I think we came up with some very decent names, but I can´t remember if they were Turkish. Do you remember something of the sorts? BTW, Altan seems nice.

[Royal Dalton]

Mustafa Kreppe.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Krabcake Dujour.

Krem Delacrem.

Banana Pancake.

[Pussfeller]

Bob Johnson

[MattofSteel]

Carl Icahn.

[univex]

No-name villain, like Craig in Layer Cake. You know, XXXX.