155 replies to this topic

[Eric Stromberg]

LTK just plain looks bad. It's the only Bond movie I can't sit through. It's a waste of Dalton which pisses me off. And I don't want to see American sitcom actors in 007 movies.

[Shamelord]

LTK is not as traditional as - let's say - the TLD cocktail, yet it is the best Bond movie of the eighties by far IMHO thank to its dramatic strenght only.

[archer1949]

LTK was the first Bond movie I saw in the theater. It was really the movie that made me a fan of the character. Through the years, I still think, if nothing else, Dalton still really holds up, especially since I have read Fleming's original stories.

[DR76]

For me LTK looks like something that Miami Vice was doing at the time, only they made it look good and glamerous.

LTK is not among my top favorite Bond movies. It's a bit too "Miami Vice" for my tastes. And Bond's main opponent is a drug lord who is a bit out of his depth in dealing with a rogue MI-6 agent. But I still enjoyed it, because I liked the story and Dalton's performance.

[Major Tallon]

I've been reading this "Miami Vice" criticism for years, and I've always wondered whether people would feel better about the film if, instead of drugs, Sanchez had been smuggling biological warfare samples. Would it really make that much difference?

[DR76]

I've been reading this "Miami Vice" criticism for years, and I've always wondered whether people would feel better about the film if, instead of drugs, Sanchez had been smuggling biological warfare samples. Would it really make that much difference?

Probably.

[Jim]

I've been reading this "Miami Vice" criticism for years, and I've always wondered whether people would feel better about the film if, instead of drugs, Sanchez had been smuggling biological warfare samples. Would it really make that much difference?

It would add that Batman Begins would have ripped off part of its plot; but it wouldn't rescue it from its cheap look, foul score and sense of utter desparation and barrel-scraping monotony.

So, no, not really.

[Napoleon Solo]

I don't know about the score being foul, but there are stretches where it's not that Bondian. On the DVD commentary, John Glen says John Barry wasn't available so they selected Michael Kamen because he was the next best thing (or words to that effect).

Kamen had scored Lethal Weapon and Die Hard, two successful action movies and, at that time, seen as fresh new takes on familiar genres. My guess is those credits had a lot more to do with Kamen's selection. His LTK score doesn't seem that much different than the other two films, except when he integrates the James Bond Theme into the score.

His gunbarrel arrangement certainly was different and he became the first composer since Marvin Hamlisch to use an electric guitar for the gunbarrel.

[Lachesis]

I happen to really like LTK and consider it probably the only truely original Bond we have seen since the 60's, but for all its many positives (and Dalton is imo a massive positive) there are imo a few negatives, the Miami Vice tone being one, the slightly cheap feel to the production is another (possibly by virtue of the stock compliment of sub 80's TV stars in the cast) and the Tanker Stunts at the end are over contrived imo. Its how influential these negatives are that really make a difference, I can easily overlook all of them but I'm a Bond fan and hence give it a second look, the general public is not nescessarily so accomodating.

What this really means is that the concept of overated or underated is an unworthy one, the general perception is, the general perception. If your whole argument to it's 'true' place is just based on your own opinion then you are assuming too much. There's your opinion and there's everyone else's none of which are either better or worse, its just something to live with and 'Hate' is really too strong and emotive a term to apply to a movie.

[Mr. Blofeld]

His gunbarrel arrangement certainly was different and he became the first composer since Marvin Hamlisch to use an electric guitar for the gunbarrel.

You've left out Bill Conti; he also had an electric guitar in his gunbarrel, albeit in a disco style...

[Napoleon Solo]

His gunbarrel arrangement certainly was different and he became the first composer since Marvin Hamlisch to use an electric guitar for the gunbarrel.

You've left out Bill Conti; he also had an electric guitar in his gunbarrel, albeit in a disco style...

It was more in the background as opposed to the main section of the gunbarrel arrangment (i.e. when the blood comes down). But I'll concede it's there.

[Trevelyan 006]

If I Am To Through My Two Cents In, I'd Say That Dalton's Performance Is The Only Thing That Saves This Movie For Me. I Also Much Prefer The Living Daylights (Except For Necros..), And Just Wish Dalton Would Have Left On A Stronger Note Than LTK. No Disrespect To Pierce's Performance, But Imagine If He Would Have Done GoldenEye!


Dalton Made A Great Bond, And Starred In Two Memorable Bond Films,
So Whether You Like LTK, Or Not, The Issue Is Nothing Worth

Losing Your Head Over.

[Revelator]

Most of the criticism directed at LTK has never sounded convincing to me. The Miami Vice complaint is negligible--yes, it takes place around Florida and Caribbean and involves a druglord and 80s fashions--so what? It's no more obnoxious than LALD's blatant blaxploitation, MR's Star Wars aping, or TMWTGG and TND's Kung Fu posturing. Ditto for the complaints about the supposedly bad editing and direction--neither are any worse than they were in TLD, and no one has ever pointed out enough examples to make a case that the movie continually suffers from them. The movie doesn't look any cheaper than DAF or TMWTGG did. The locations are fine as well--the Key West scenes convey the feel of the tropics and Isthmus City is appropriately seedy, with a few oases of glamor (Sanchez's compound and the casino). And the dry, mountain scenes toward the end serve the scorched earth climax well, while Sanchez's drug lab is more impressive than whatever that building was that blew up in QOS.

The movie's strengths are obvious, starting with the intensity of Dalton's performance. The rest of the cast is quite good too, aside from the stiffness of the actress playing Lupe. Sanchez is one of the most charismatic Bond villains--one of the best in years actually--and Davi is excellent in the role. It's a nice change from the weak villains of TLD, a movie that is quite overrated. And in contrast to TLD's pointlessly convoluted plot, LTK has a clear and coherent narrative line, rather than a muddled FRWL-wannabe plot or a Moore-ear clothesline for stunts. The script skillfully integrates elements from Fleming's LALD, TMWTGG, and Yojimbo, and even complicates Bond's certainty by showing how his actions screw up other people's plans to get Sanchez. Pam is one of the best 80s Bond girls, and her complicated feelings toward Bond are one of the highlights of the film. Q's extended role might be implausible, but it's also oddly moving, because Q's attitude towards Dalton's Bond is genuinely affectionate. Bond's character also progresses--starting out alone and determined to wreak revenge on his own, he gradually learns to accept the help of others, and realizes how to better coordinate himself with his true allies. Lastly, the climax is both "realistic" (involving nothing more than trucks) and wonderfully fun and over-the-top (truck wheelies!), ending in a very Flemingian manner with a bruised and battered Bond, and one of the best revenge killings in any action movie, thanks to that lighter. LTK is an actual movie, not a bunch of stunts and quips, and it's the best Bond film made between FYEO and Casino Royale.

Edited by Revelator, 07 December 2011 - 08:49 PM.

[The Shark]

[...] and it's the best Bond film in between FYEO and Casino Royale.

What about the two most frequently cited - OHMSS and FRWL? They've always struck me as much more compelling, soulful Bond films, especially the former.

[univex]

[...] and it's the best Bond film in between FYEO and Casino Royale.

What about the two most frequently cited - OHMSS and FRWL? They've always struck me as much more compelling, soulful Bond films, especially the former.

Those 4 plus TLD make my 5 favourite Bond films

[Miles Miservy]

If I Am To Through My Two Cents In, I'd Say That Dalton's Performance Is The Only Thing That Saves This Movie For Me. I Also Much Prefer The Living Daylights (Except For Necros..), And Just Wish Dalton Would Have Left On A Stronger Note Than LTK. No Disrespect To Pierce's Performance, But Imagine If He Would Have Done GoldenEye!


Dalton Made A Great Bond, And Starred In Two Memorable Bond Films,
So Whether You Like LTK, Or Not, The Issue Is Nothing Worth

Losing Your Head Over.

Aptly put... Were any other actor to play 007 with that script, I don't think it would have worked as well. I just wish he and Sanchez fought for longer than a few seconds. Even Roger Moor had a considerable amount of hang-time on the Golden Gate Bridge w/Christopher Walken before the villain met his end.

[mttvolcano]

[...] and it's the best Bond film in between FYEO and Casino Royale.

What about the two most frequently cited - OHMSS and FRWL? They've always struck me as much more compelling, soulful Bond films, especially the former.

You do realize he said between FYEO and CR right? lol
just poking fun at you, those are good films as well of course!

Thanks Revelator for your objective and great assessment of LTK!

[Revelator]

What about the two most frequently cited - OHMSS and FRWL? They've always struck me as much more compelling, soulful Bond films, especially the former.

They're the best Bond films ever made, and certainly better than LTK, but I think LTK is the best Bond film made in the years between FYEO and Casino Royale. The Bond series itself tends to split between the models of FRWL and Goldfinger, and while LTK might not be even third place on the list of FRWL-style films, I much prefer it to the majority of GF-style take-offs.

[Trevelyan 006]

If I Am To Through My Two Cents In, I'd Say That Dalton's Performance Is The Only Thing That Saves This Movie For Me. I Also Much Prefer The Living Daylights (Except For Necros..), And Just Wish Dalton Would Have Left On A Stronger Note Than LTK. No Disrespect To Pierce's Performance, But Imagine If He Would Have Done GoldenEye!


Dalton Made A Great Bond, And Starred In Two Memorable Bond Films,
So Whether You Like LTK, Or Not, The Issue Is Nothing Worth

Losing Your Head Over.

Aptly put... Were any other actor to play 007 with that script, I don't think it would have worked as well. I just wish he and Sanchez fought for longer than a few seconds. Even Roger Moor had a considerable amount of hang-time on the Golden Gate Bridge w/Christopher Walken before the villain met his end.

I Can Agree With This Point As Well, I'm Sure If Sanchez And Bond Had A Bit Longer, And More Of A Physical Fall-Out, This Would Have Not Only Improved The Ending Scene, But Would Have Heightened The Personal Vendetta Of The Story. More Of A 'Fight' Followed By Sanchez Going Up In Flames Would Have Really Drove The Point Home. At Least I Think So..

[robertcampbell]

I remembered that it was touted as a more violent and realistic Bond adventure and the end results was just a flicker of the early word.It was indeed violent by 007 standards but way too tame from the post "Die Hard" and "Lethal Weapon" era when it was released (1989).I think that the interjection of the Leiter mauling straight from the Fleming book("LALD")was inspired and was a logical motivation for Bond to be a rogue agent.But still there were some bits which it could have been improved.I always wondered how Della (Felix' bride for a few hours)was killed.In the John Gardner novelization-her throat was slit.I think that the music of the late Michael Kamen can be relegated next to Eric Serra's score for "Goldeneye".Totally lacked the zip of the Barry and David Arnold repertoires.Timothy Dalton was great but I wished that they could have paid more attention to his make up.He was sporting a Clooney like Cesar bangs cut(maybe to hide a receding hairline?)and his slick back look somehow reminded me of Dracula.I am not trying to be funny-I'd just prefer his looks from "TLD".I also think that the film went downhill when Bond went to the fictional "Isthmus" city.The truck climax was a mixed bag.Somehow violent and kinda reminded me of a Keystone Cops caper.(Check the Sanchez thugs when the plane unload some dirt on them!)The fight with Sanchez was over too quick and I wished that it was a more mano a mano fight to the death.Then there was the cringe-worthy lines of "I love James so much" and "We're gonna give you a nice honeymoooon!"-Richard Maibaum must be turning in his grave.It was a brave attempt to shake up the series and somehow with the debate of it's merits and flaws still in dispute to this day-I can say that the folks from EON have succeeded in giving this entry longevity in controversy.

[Pussfeller]

People vaguely accuse LTK of being overly violent and "dark". It is unquestionably violent, but it certainly isn't dark. It's loaded with broad, cheesy humor, schlocky eighties action tropes, and moments that can only be described as cartoonish. There's the Saturday morning anti-drug fantasy, the hastily invented black best friend, the "I told you this was a mistake!" in-law, the swordfish-as-weapon, the perfectly circular hole made by a shotgun, the sniveling yuppie, the goofy televangelist, Q in a silly costume, the cartoonish X-ray snapshot, Asians who turn out to be kung fu masters... The characters and the tone of the film are just as silly as anything from the Moore era. It's just that the deaths are gorier, and Bond himself is a glaring, high-strung sourpuss.

The fundamental change in tone didn't come until Brosnan. That's when everything went from lighthearted to gloomily self-serious.

[The Shark]

People vaguely accuse LTK of being overly violent and "dark". It is unquestionably violent, but it certainly isn't dark. It's loaded with broad, cheesy humor, schlocky eighties action tropes, and moments that can only be described as cartoonish.

That's what doesn't work for me. What you mentioned doesn't really gel with Dalton performance, or the attempt at gravitas. It comes and fits and starts, bouncing back between moments of brilliance and downright incompetence.

If the "Bond experience" is a gourmet meal, then LTK is a trip down to the local Taco Bell.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

Most of the criticism directed at LTK has never sounded convincing to me. The Miami Vice complaint is negligible--yes, it takes place around Florida and Caribbean and involves a druglord and 80s fashions--so what? It's no more obnoxious than LALD's blatant blaxploitation, MR's Star Wars aping, or TMWTGG and TND's Kung Fu posturing.

True. But the Miami Vice fashion and the whole style from the (american) action movies of the eighties is one of the tackiest style ever seen (at least, imo), hence it's the most unproper trend to follow for Bond movies, having in mind the elegance that has been one of the main distinction of 007 as a character and even as a series.

[Revelator]

True. But the Miami Vice fashion and the whole style from the (american) action movies of the eighties is one of the tackiest style ever seen (at least, imo), hence it's the most unproper trend to follow for Bond movies, having in mind the elegance that has been one of the main distinction of 007 as a character and even as a series.

Maybe, but Bond has never been limited to solely glamorous locations or settings. The Florida setting of Fleming's LALD is no less tackier than LTK's, as is Las Vegas in the book and film of DAF. And the 70s fashion of some of the Moore films is hardly more tasteful than LTK's 80s stylings (unless one has a thing for Safari jackets). And as I noted before, there are several appropriately glamorous settings in Isthmus City--it's not as if the whole film takes place in a dive bar. The point about Bond is not that he's always in elegant settings, but that he behaves with savoir faire regardless of setting.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

True. But the Miami Vice fashion and the whole style from the (american) action movies of the eighties is one of the tackiest style ever seen (at least, imo), hence it's the most unproper trend to follow for Bond movies, having in mind the elegance that has been one of the main distinction of 007 as a character and even as a series.

Maybe, but Bond has never been limited to solely glamorous locations or settings. The Florida setting of Fleming's LALD is no less tackier than LTK's, as is Las Vegas in the book and film of DAF. And the 70s fashion of some of the Moore films is hardly more tasteful than LTK's 80s stylings (unless one has a thing for Safari jackets). And as I noted before, there are several appropriately glamorous settings in Isthmus City--it's not as if the whole film takes place in a dive bar. The point about Bond is not that he's always in elegant settings, but that he behaves with savoir faire regardless of setting.

Well, even if I think that LTK's fashion is a bit more tacky than the examples that you mentioned, I admit you got a point there..... (and I'm thinking in Bond on the gipsy camp in FRWL) However, is kind of hard to see Dalton's Bond sophistication in his 'search for personal vendetta' mode- plotline that precisely was in vogue with the american action movies of the eighties-.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

I love Licence to Kill. Probably not a 'classic Bond', but lot's of actions and great villains!

[Panavision]

LTK's script is probably best since Spy Who Loved Me. The plot is easy to follow and I love seeing Bond going undercover and smartly tearing up Sanchez's company from the inside out.
I don't understand what the nasty and cruel comments are based on -- the film is a lot more adult. I'm glad an adult Bond film exists in the series. Let's applaud diversity.

[thecasinoroyale]

I can watch this films loads and always end up getting sucked in. I agree with seeing Dalton's Bond work from the inside out in Sanchez's organisation is great to see, and always very clever. Real espionage at work here, rather than just going in guns blazing with bombs and stuff.

The characters are great, very sinister and very real and I will always back the stunt-work and action scenes in this. The tanker truck finale is my favourite sequence in the film and up in the Top 3 for the whole franchise. It's fast, it's dangerous, it's explosive and well filmed!

Dalton made more of an impact on Bond in this film than other actors did over a couple, and it's a fine finale for him to part on (except the winking fish at the end!!)


A great, Fleming-esque, adult Bond which proves that Dalton was Craig's Bond 20 years ahead of his time.

[tdalton]

The characters are great, very sinister and very real and I will always back the stunt-work and action scenes in this. The tanker truck finale is my favourite sequence in the film and up in the Top 3 for the whole franchise. It's fast, it's dangerous, it's explosive and well filmed!

Very much agreed. There's so much to like in Licence to Kill that it really makes me wonder what it is about the film that turns so many off to it. Sanchez is one of the best villains in the entire series, and for as much flak as the two Bond girls get on the various forums, I find them both to be pretty good, especially Carey Lowell, who I'd rank as one of my favorite Bond girls of the entire series. That was the one time they got the whole "Bond equal" concept right.

The action is great too, especially as it's mostly on a smaller scale than what we're used to seeing in the Bond films. The entire sequence aboard the Wave Krest that ends with Bond stealing the plane full of money is very well done, and of course the tanker chase to close out the film needs no explanation. I definitely agree that it's one of the best action sequences in the entire series.

Dalton made more of an impact on Bond in this film than other actors did over a couple, and it's a fine finale for him to part on (except the winking fish at the end!!)

Completely agreed with this statement as well, which is why it's such a shame that he only got two films. Another couple of films would have done wonders for his standing in the arena of public opinion.

I agree about the winking fish, but that's the only part of the scene at Sanchez's mansion at the end of the film that I'd change. Everything else I really like and I think that it's one of the best closing scenes in the entire franchise. What they should have done was have Bond and Felix actually having the serious and gut-wrenching conversation that the film truly required after what both men went through over the course of the film. That kind of scene would have led well into the final scene at Sanchez's mansion.

[Syndicate]

After reading some of the postes, let not forget towards the end of the mid 80s and the whole late 80s it was about the war on durgs in spy novels, and even in police stories with street gangs here at home. The best one was Tom Clancy's fifth novel Clear And Present Danger. I would say in that novel had more violence then Licence To Kill. In chapter 13 That Bloody Weekend, with the killing of FBI Director Jacbos and his security team in Columbia, well FBI Special Agent Dan Murry is over at Jack Rayn's house having a beer with Ryan. In another chapter there is the use of laser target designator to drop a smart bomb. At the end there that, where CIA Operation Officer In Special Activity Division John Clark had a tape recording of Special Assistant National Security Advisor James Cutter talking to Cartel leader or his Intelligence informant from Cuba. Which is to force Cutter to leave his job or be used on him. In the end Cutter just get himself killed by being hit by a big 18 wheeler.

So compare to the novel Clear And Present Danger, Licence To Kill is not as violence. There are more stuff, but those are some of the stuff in the novel Clear And Present Danger. You have to wonder what if Sanchez was not just in the business of selling and making drugs. what IF he also sold all kinds arms like C4s, RPGs, Uzis, AK47s, M60, AUG, P90, M203, claymores and so on, have the power to infuence a small contury or a small island's leader and so on. Would that have been better or made any difference.

Edited by Syndicate, 02 March 2012 - 10:13 PM.