Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

The Differing Details of the Climbing Accident


36 replies to this topic

#1 Righty007

Righty007

    Discharged.

  • Veterans Reserve
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13051 posts
  • Location:Station CLE - Cleveland

Posted 08 July 2010 - 05:58 PM

I was recently reading Brian Smith's article "Young Bonds Before" from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (Issue 2) and the following line interested me:

"Although Higson's 'Young Bond' is not based on Pearson's work, both are faithful to what little information Ian Fleming revealed about Bond's childhood, therefore both 'versions' are similar in that Bond goes to Eton, loses his parents in a climbing accident and goes to live with his Aunt Charmian. The difference is in the detail, though. For example, the events surrounding the death of Bond's parents is different (and different again in John Gardner's 1989 novel WIN, LOSE OR DIE!)."

Intrigued by the last line, I e-mailed Brian Smith from Bond and Beyond (the website is currently selling James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 at a discounted price) asking for some clarification. Here are some excerpts from his reply:
None of the continuation authors contradict Fleming, as all Fleming really tells us is that Bond's parents were killed in a climbing accident. However, the continuation authors contradict each other, but only in the detail.
PEARSON:

In James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007, Monique is suffering from a nervous breakdown, and her marriage to Andrew Bond is obviously under strain. Young James Bond was in London when he last saw his father, and was in Glencoe, Scotland with his brother Henry three weeks later when they were told of their parent's death. There was speculation that Monique took her life and that Andrew Bond fell, accidentally, to his death.
GARDNER:

In Win, Lose or Die, James is on holiday with his parents, now the loving couple, in Lago Lugano. He is ill and they have Christmas dinner in James's room. A few weeks later they have their climbing accident, which puts the timeline as January (Feb latest).
HIGSON:

In SilverFin, Bond is staying with his Aunt Charmian when news of his parents death comes through. James is an only child (no Henry!). Again, like Gardner's version, there does not seem to be any problem with Monique or the relationship. James last sees his parents in Basle and the climbing accident takes place in the summer.
Hope this sheds some lights. As I said, the difference is in the detail.
I don't know if these differences are widely known but they're certainly news to me as I've yet to read James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 and Win, Lose Or Die. Anybody else find this fascinating?

#2 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 08 July 2010 - 06:20 PM

Very interesting. Thanks Righty. B)

#3 David Schofield

David Schofield

    Commander

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3026 posts

Posted 08 July 2010 - 06:31 PM

I don't know if these differences are widely known but they're certainly news to me as I've yet to read James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 and Win, Lose Or Die. Anybody else find this fascinating?


No, mate.

Not sure why you think any of the continuation authors SHOULDN'T contradict each other. All are, really, from different timelines and continuities. Higson's Bond does things only Superboy, not a Young Fleming's Bond, could do; Gardner's Bond is still amazingly fit for a guy in his late 60s... What do you fate do you expect of Deaver's Bonds Mom and Dad?

And much more reading to do, sunshine.

#4 Righty007

Righty007

    Discharged.

  • Veterans Reserve
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13051 posts
  • Location:Station CLE - Cleveland

Posted 08 July 2010 - 06:37 PM

I don't know if these differences are widely known but they're certainly news to me as I've yet to read James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 and Win, Lose Or Die. Anybody else find this fascinating?


No, mate.

Not sure why you think any of the continuation authors SHOULDN'T contradict each other. All are, really, from different timelines and continuities. Higson's Bond does things only Superboy, not a Young Fleming's Bond, could do; Gardner's Bond is still amazingly fit for a guy in his late 60s... What do you fate do you expect of Deaver's Bonds Mom and Dad?

And much more reading to do, sunshine.

I NEVER said the continuation authors shouldn't contradict each other and I know there are many contradictions among the continuations novels. Heck, even Fleming contradicted himself at times.

I made this thread because I find each author's take on "climbing accident" very interesting. If you don't, that's your choice.

Alright, sunshine?

B)

#5 David Schofield

David Schofield

    Commander

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3026 posts

Posted 08 July 2010 - 06:43 PM

I don't know if these differences are widely known but they're certainly news to me as I've yet to read James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 and Win, Lose Or Die. Anybody else find this fascinating?


No, mate.

Not sure why you think any of the continuation authors SHOULDN'T contradict each other. All are, really, from different timelines and continuities. Higson's Bond does things only Superboy, not a Young Fleming's Bond, could do; Gardner's Bond is still amazingly fit for a guy in his late 60s... What do you fate do you expect of Deaver's Bonds Mom and Dad?

And much more reading to do, sunshine.

I NEVER said the continuation authors shouldn't contradict each other and I know there are many contradictions among the continuations novels. Heck, even Fleming contradicted himself at times.

I made this thread because I find each author's take on "climbing accident" very interesting. If you don't, that's your choice.

Alright, sunshine?

B)


Aren't we the young hard-man?

You said you found it "fascinating" they differed - by implication odd that they shouldn't be on the same page; in short, that they contradict each other.

Its not "fascinating", its to be expected with seperate authors and different continuities. I.E. its obvious.

Now, back up stairs. Much reading for you to catch up on.

#6 Righty007

Righty007

    Discharged.

  • Veterans Reserve
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13051 posts
  • Location:Station CLE - Cleveland

Posted 08 July 2010 - 09:15 PM

I don't know if these differences are widely known but they're certainly news to me as I've yet to read James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 and Win, Lose Or Die. Anybody else find this fascinating?


And much more reading to do, sunshine.

Aren't we the young hard-man?

Now, back up stairs. Much reading for you to catch up on.

The arrogance displayed in these blatant and belittling jabs at my age aren't amusing. Unlike you, I don't hide behind a username and have chosen to display my age and other personal information in my dossier.

I admit I haven't read all the Fleming novels but I've been a member of these forums since 2003 so I'd appreciate it if you stopped being pretentious and started giving me the courtesy you'd expect from others here and not dismiss my posts as rubbish simply because I'm younger than you.

Understood, sunshine?

#7 DamnCoffee

DamnCoffee

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 24459 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 08 July 2010 - 09:23 PM

"Let's play nice, children."

#8 Jim

Jim

    Commander RNVR

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 14266 posts
  • Location:Oxfordshire

Posted 09 July 2010 - 04:59 AM

I don't know if these differences are widely known but they're certainly news to me as I've yet to read James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 and Win, Lose Or Die. Anybody else find this fascinating?


And much more reading to do, sunshine.

Aren't we the young hard-man?

Now, back up stairs. Much reading for you to catch up on.

The arrogance displayed in these blatant and belittling jabs at my age aren't amusing. Unlike you, I don't hide behind a username and have chosen to display my age and other personal information in my dossier.

I admit I haven't read all the Fleming novels but I've been a member of these forums since 2003 so I'd appreciate it if you stopped being pretentious and started giving me the courtesy you'd expect from others here and not dismiss my posts as rubbish simply because I'm younger than you.

Understood, sunshine?


If this is the peak - geddit? Go on, you do. Go on. - of the conversation then you both need alp. Or summit.

I amaze myself some days.

Actually, this is pretty interesting. It's a James Bond board and minutiae like this is certainly fit for discussion. I'd forgotten that Pearson's take was quite so melodramatic, for a start.

#9 David Schofield

David Schofield

    Commander

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3026 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 07:06 AM

I don't know if these differences are widely known but they're certainly news to me as I've yet to read James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 and Win, Lose Or Die. Anybody else find this fascinating?


And much more reading to do, sunshine.

Aren't we the young hard-man?

Now, back up stairs. Much reading for you to catch up on.

The arrogance displayed in these blatant and belittling jabs at my age aren't amusing. Unlike you, I don't hide behind a username and have chosen to display my age and other personal information in my dossier.

I admit I haven't read all the Fleming novels but I've been a member of these forums since 2003 so I'd appreciate it if you stopped being pretentious and started giving me the courtesy you'd expect from others here and not dismiss my posts as rubbish simply because I'm younger than you.

Understood, sunshine?


Righty, do you actually think I'm using a username rather than my own? :tdown: B)

And indeed as you have been on these boards since 2003 it is longer than I, and I have no doubt you'll be around here far more in the future. I believe you are also a Mod.

But, don't worry, I'm not dismissing your posts as rubbish because of your age. Rest assured about that.

#10 Righty007

Righty007

    Discharged.

  • Veterans Reserve
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13051 posts
  • Location:Station CLE - Cleveland

Posted 09 July 2010 - 11:35 AM

I don't know if these differences are widely known but they're certainly news to me as I've yet to read James Bond: The Authorised Biography of 007 and Win, Lose Or Die. Anybody else find this fascinating?


And much more reading to do, sunshine.

Aren't we the young hard-man?

Now, back up stairs. Much reading for you to catch up on.

The arrogance displayed in these blatant and belittling jabs at my age aren't amusing. Unlike you, I don't hide behind a username and have chosen to display my age and other personal information in my dossier.

I admit I haven't read all the Fleming novels but I've been a member of these forums since 2003 so I'd appreciate it if you stopped being pretentious and started giving me the courtesy you'd expect from others here and not dismiss my posts as rubbish simply because I'm younger than you.

Understood, sunshine?


I believe you are also a Mod.

Not since 2008.

#11 Loomis

Loomis

    Commander CMG

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 21862 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 11:41 AM

I'm baffled as to what Righty is supposed to have done wrong in this thread.

#12 Harmsway

Harmsway

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13293 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:57 PM

I'm baffled as to what Righty is supposed to have done wrong in this thread.

Me too. Frankly, I think this is a fine idea for a thread.

#13 terminus

terminus

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2469 posts
  • Location:Manchester, UK

Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:25 PM

Back to the topic at hand - am not sure the continuation authors actually do contradict each other, when you consider the nature of the books.

Pearson's 'The Autobiography of James Bond' isn't a continuation novel, per se, it's the 'biography of the man whose career that Fleming borrowed to write his novels' and, from what I recall, the novel itself explicitly states it as such. The same with any liberal differences with the continuity of The Moneypenny Diaries.

This version of Bond, the 'real life' version of Bond isn't an only child, has a mother and father who were experiencing marital difficulties and he was in Scotland when his parents died.

Then we come to the 'fictional' version of Bond (Fleming/Higson/Gardener) in which the character is an only child, had a happy family life and was staying with his aunt when his parents died. Is it not possible to rectify the Higson/Gardener continuity as occuring in the same 'reality' - with only the timing of the accident an issue?

#14 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:58 PM

I'm baffled as to what Righty is supposed to have done wrong in this thread.

Me too. Frankly, I think this is a fine idea for a thread.

Not only is it a good idea for a thread, but I think it's some fine research. I didn't realize Gardner had ever addressed the climbing accident (apparently Gardner also mentions Bond losing his virginity in Paris in Brokenclaw, but I can't find it).

#15 Mr. Blofeld

Mr. Blofeld

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9173 posts
  • Location:North Smithfield, RI, USA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 05:24 PM

I didn't realize Gardner had ever addressed the climbing accident (apparently Gardner also mentions Bond losing his virginity in Paris in Brokenclaw, but I can't find it).

Found it, but it's very brief, on page 148:

Posted Image


Can't exactly picture Fleming's Bond going to a Who concert... B)

#16 coco1997

coco1997

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2821 posts
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 09 July 2010 - 05:46 PM

I didn't realize Gardner had ever addressed the climbing accident (apparently Gardner also mentions Bond losing his virginity in Paris in Brokenclaw, but I can't find it).

Found it, but it's very brief, on page 148:

Posted Image


Can't exactly picture Fleming's Bond going to a Who concert... B)


Wasn't that Chi-Chi describing herself?

#17 Righty007

Righty007

    Discharged.

  • Veterans Reserve
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13051 posts
  • Location:Station CLE - Cleveland

Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:44 PM

I didn't realize Gardner had ever addressed the climbing accident (apparently Gardner also mentions Bond losing his virginity in Paris in Brokenclaw, but I can't find it).

Found it, but it's very brief, on page 148:

Posted Image


Can't exactly picture Fleming's Bond going to a Who concert... B)


Wasn't that Chi-Chi describing herself?

I just checked and you're right, that is Chi-Chi NOT Bond!

Bond then replies, "Beat you by almost eighteen months."

#18 Mr. Blofeld

Mr. Blofeld

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9173 posts
  • Location:North Smithfield, RI, USA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:46 PM

What did he say after that, though?

#19 Matt_13

Matt_13

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5969 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:54 PM

So Gardner says 14 then? Interesting.


I'm a bit disappointed it wasn't Bond who was at the Who concert though...B)

#20 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:57 PM

So it was Roan! I knew something happened between chapters (think Charlie even agreed in our last interview).

#21 Mr. Blofeld

Mr. Blofeld

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9173 posts
  • Location:North Smithfield, RI, USA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:06 PM

So it was Roan!

...and not in Paris? B)

#22 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:08 PM

So it was Roan!

...and not in Paris? B)

But it was in France, right?

#23 Mr. Blofeld

Mr. Blofeld

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9173 posts
  • Location:North Smithfield, RI, USA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:46 PM

So it was Roan!

...and not in Paris? :tdown:

But it was in France, right?

From From a View to a Kill, page 5:

Posted Image

Certainly, it was in France... B)

#24 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:57 PM

Yeah, but I'm talking about in BRC when they've escaped England and are crossing France, there is a conspicuous missing chunk of romantic time where, well, anything could have happened. Pretty obvious to an adult reader, I think.It's a way to have sex in that book without having it, well, in the book.

From my interview:

JC. Did you feel pressure to come up with a satisfying “maid incident” -- which came from Fleming after all -- that wasn’t sexual?

CH. Well, I think it is sexual. (Laughs)

JC. I did notice while they’re in France there is a mysterious bit of missing time...

CH. It’s a bit like those old Hollywood films where you have to kind of pan away just before anything actually happens, go out through the open window, past the billowing curtains, where just about everyone watching goes, “Yeah, I know something else went on there.” I think for the more mature people reading it they can imagine what goes on between the chapters. In fact, I had a little bit more in the original draft about their journey though France and it did imply a little bit more. But, you know, it’s that eternal problem with writing for kids at the age I’m writing. I can’t be explicit. But I’m hoping older people reading will think, “He’s James Bond, I bet he got up to something a little bit more.” Obviously, the implication in Fleming’s original obituary was, basically, he shagged her and got thrown out of school. But I thought it would be fun to do a little bit more with it and say more was going on. It had to do with national security and protecting the Royal Family. (Laughs).


But we are well off topic. B)

#25 Mr. Blofeld

Mr. Blofeld

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9173 posts
  • Location:North Smithfield, RI, USA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:01 PM

Ahhhh... so maybe oral doesn't count as losing it, then? B)

#26 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:12 PM

Oh boy, we're over the line now. B)

Anyway, the CLIMBING accident, yeah... Hell of an accident.

#27 Single-O-Seven

Single-O-Seven

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1323 posts
  • Location:Toronto, ON, Canada

Posted 09 July 2010 - 10:00 PM

Actually, this is pretty interesting. It's a James Bond board and minutiae like this is certainly fit for discussion. I'd forgotten that Pearson's take was quite so melodramatic, for a start.


Pearson did a wonderful job of taking the small tidbits of Bond's history as provided by Fleming and turning them into interesting and exciting vignettes. It's a shame he didn't do more Bond literature.

#28 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 09 July 2010 - 10:19 PM

Wasn't Pearson's take that his mother was having an affair and his father followed her to Austria and confronted her on the mountain. Something like that.

#29 Righty007

Righty007

    Discharged.

  • Veterans Reserve
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 13051 posts
  • Location:Station CLE - Cleveland

Posted 10 July 2010 - 03:56 AM

Ahhhh... so maybe oral doesn't count as losing it, then? B)

Please keep this thread smut-free. Thank you.

#30 coco1997

coco1997

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2821 posts
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:24 AM

.