198 replies to this topic

[jamie00007]

Movies are a visual medium. You have to show on screen what a book can tell you in a few words. The mirror scene to me was completely in keeping with the style of the books. After a kill the book would often tell us how Bond was feeling. And I think Bond's look in the mirror did the same job beautifully thanks to Craigs performance.

[Messervy]

Indeed.
In the novels, you get very frequently Bond reflecting on past missions and assignments to come. But we can't have that in a film: noone would bear Bond talking to himself while having a drink like any bum! So you have to have other means of conveying his introspection process. Looking at himself in a mirror is an option, it's a visual short cut.

[blueman]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

Amazing how many times they tried to tickle my funny bone and failed. I could see what they were trying to do, and it just didn't work. Like many many things Forster tried on his Bond movie.

Don't want to turn this thread into something about QoS only but, because it is relevant to what we might mean by "light" or "humour", I would like to state that I actually enjoyed most of those lines.

Of course everyone has his own sense of humour, but for me those were indeed funny. And, among others, they were funny because of the way they were delivered: usually in a serious tone (most notably those delivered by M), and not some "oh look! I'm making a joke here!" (Broz in TND, for instance) or some silly scene (MR or TMWTGG, for instance), as we have had in previous films. I like it when there is a gap between a situation/tone and the dialogue/meaning. In this respect, QoS worked just fine.

Agreed about this. Bond making jokes in an obvious manner is EON's invention, not Fleming's. Appreciated QOS backing away from all that.

Also agree on the mirror bit in CR, very Fleming moment IMO.

[BoogieBond]

Indeed.
In the novels, you get very frequently Bond reflecting on past missions and assignments to come. But we can't have that in a film: noone would bear Bond talking to himself while having a drink like any bum! So you have to have other means of conveying his introspection process. Looking at himself in a mirror is an option, it's a visual short cut.

You need an actor of good calibre to pull this off like Craig to pull this off, and in Casino Royale it is very effective. Similarly in FRWL I think Connery shows through looks what Bond is feeling internally.
The scene in CR where Bond is in the nightclub and Vesper says "Mathis needs me" and then Bond thinks for awhile is a scene I particularly like, it does not show all the internal thoughts of Bond, just that he had suspicions, in the Book it explains why, because it was not the way Mathis does things, he would have turned up personally to congratulate Bond on his winnings etc.
Collusus was commenting on the focusing on the brutality and internal angst of Bond in CR. Hitting the audience with a hammer so to speak, trying to affect the audience. I felt that particular scene worked fine, but I get the point about not dwelling too much on Bonds Depression/Angst. In the old movies like Thunderball you might get a scene like the Bond tells Domino that her brother is dead, Bond wearing sunglasses/emotional armour full on etc, but then you move off and onto Bond having fun and being the cool guy that everyone wants to be.
CR got it right, QOS took the whole darkness to its conclusion, lighter fare(hopefully) for B23.

Edited by BoogieBond, 08 July 2010 - 10:08 AM.

[The Shark]

Indeed.
In the novels, you get very frequently Bond reflecting on past missions and assignments to come. But we can't have that in a film: noone would bear Bond talking to himself while having a drink like any bum!

I would, without a doubt.

[Messervy]

Indeed.
In the novels, you get very frequently Bond reflecting on past missions and assignments to come. But we can't have that in a film: noone would bear Bond talking to himself while having a drink like any bum!

I would, without a doubt.

ah! Then maybe you should watch Homer Simpson having his beer at Moe's!...

[zencat]

Movies are a visual medium. You have to show on screen what a book can tell you in a few words. The mirror scene to me was completely in keeping with the style of the books. After a kill the book would often tell us how Bond was feeling. And I think Bond's look in the mirror did the same job beautifully thanks to Craigs performance.

Yep, good point jamie00007.

[tdalton]

Movies are a visual medium. You have to show on screen what a book can tell you in a few words. The mirror scene to me was completely in keeping with the style of the books. After a kill the book would often tell us how Bond was feeling. And I think Bond's look in the mirror did the same job beautifully thanks to Craigs performance.

Yep, good point jamie00007.

Agreed. It's a very good point.

[The Shark]

Indeed.
In the novels, you get very frequently Bond reflecting on past missions and assignments to come. But we can't have that in a film: noone would bear Bond talking to himself while having a drink like any bum!

I would, without a doubt.

ah! Then maybe you should watch Homer Simpson having his beer at Moe's!...

While comparing the guilt complex of killing to a death watch beetle in the soul?

[Trident]

Indeed.
In the novels, you get very frequently Bond reflecting on past missions and assignments to come. But we can't have that in a film: noone would bear Bond talking to himself while having a drink like any bum!

I would, without a doubt.

ah! Then maybe you should watch Homer Simpson having his beer at Moe's!...

While comparing the guilt complex of killing to a death watch beetle in the soul?

I've read somewhere that Fleming also had a go once on a 'Moonraker' (or was that 'Thunderball'?) script where he introduced Bond with some inner monologue while sitting in his office and reading his files. Interesting concept, but I don't know if it would work in a modern production in the way Fleming used it.

[The Shark]

Indeed.
In the novels, you get very frequently Bond reflecting on past missions and assignments to come. But we can't have that in a film: noone would bear Bond talking to himself while having a drink like any bum!

I would, without a doubt.

ah! Then maybe you should watch Homer Simpson having his beer at Moe's!...

While comparing the guilt complex of killing to a death watch beetle in the soul?

I've read somewhere that Fleming also had a go once on a 'Moonraker' (or was that 'Thunderball'?) script where he introduced Bond with some inner monologue while sitting in his office and reading his files. Interesting concept, but I don't know if it would work in a modern production in the way Fleming used it.

It could work brilliantly if handled well. Remember Daniel Craig's opening and closing monologues to Layer Cake? Something like that maybe.

[Trident]

It could work brilliantly if handled well. Remember Daniel Craig's opening and closing monologues to Layer Cake? Something like that maybe.

Yes, this worked really well, particularly the end. 'Burn Notice' employs a similar device over the entire format, although with a funny twist. Not sure if a 'straight' approach would not better do with less of it; constant usage might tire the audience. Still, Bond monologue would make an interesting change.

[Guy Haines]

Indeed.
In the novels, you get very frequently Bond reflecting on past missions and assignments to come. But we can't have that in a film: noone would bear Bond talking to himself while having a drink like any bum!

I would, without a doubt.

ah! Then maybe you should watch Homer Simpson having his beer at Moe's!...

While comparing the guilt complex of killing to a death watch beetle in the soul?

I've read somewhere that Fleming also had a go once on a 'Moonraker' (or was that 'Thunderball'?) script where he introduced Bond with some inner monologue while sitting in his office and reading his files. Interesting concept, but I don't know if it would work in a modern production in the way Fleming used it.

It could work brilliantly if handled well. Remember Daniel Craig's opening and closing monologues to Layer Cake? Something like that maybe.

We had Bond in the first person in the early Daily Express comic strip adaptations of the Fleming novels. A bit off putting at first, if you had read the original books, but it didn't distract too much.

[Trident]

We had Bond in the first person in the early Daily Express comic strip adaptations of the Fleming novels. A bit off putting at first, if you had read the original books, but it didn't distract too much.

Yes FRWL, wasn't it? I think the reason it's so strange when reading it at first is that Bond doesn't strike one as the type of man who would keep a diary or talk very much about himself. Other agents who are written in first person, the Deightons and Adam Hall's Quiller often disguise the narrative as debriefing or mission report.

However I think a filmic Bond letting audiences (briefly!) into his thoughts could make for a terrific impact, almost as if meeting this man for the first time. Yes, it would have to be done extremely well and careful and used sparsely. But I really think it's a splendid idea for that format and would love to see it realised one day.

[Guy Haines]

We had Bond in the first person in the early Daily Express comic strip adaptations of the Fleming novels. A bit off putting at first, if you had read the original books, but it didn't distract too much.

Yes FRWL, wasn't it? I think the reason it's so strange when reading it at first is that Bond doesn't strike one as the type of man who would keep a diary or talk very much about himself. Other agents who are written in first person, the Deightons and Adam Hall's Quiller often disguise the narrative as debriefing or mission report.

However I think a filmic Bond letting audiences (briefly!) into his thoughts could make for a terrific impact, almost as if meeting this man for the first time. Yes, it would have to be done extremely well and careful and used sparsely. But I really think it's a splendid idea for that format and would love to see it realised one day.

It was earlier than FRWL. All the early adaptations in the Express had Bond relating the story in the first person. For proof, have a look at the collection of Bond comic strips released by Titan last year. Plus, its interesting to compare the comic strip with not only the novel, but also the filmic version of the same story.

[Trident]

Ah yes, you are right. CR is third person but then LALD and MR are both first person narrative. I had completely forgotten about them, some time since I read them. The only one I was sure Bond was telling the story was FRWL as here the decision was particularly inappropriate with a large part of the plot not involving Bond at all, so how would he know?

[Guy Haines]

Ah yes, you are right. CR is third person but then LALD and MR are both first person narrative. I had completely forgotten about them, some time since I read them. The only one I was sure Bond was telling the story was FRWL as here the decision was particularly inappropriate with a large part of the plot not involving Bond at all, so how would he know?

And having checked my copy of the Titan re-issue I mentioned, you are quite right about CR - written in the third person. But after that one, the next four are written with Bond as the narrator, with the third person style only returning in the Dr No strip. And I agree, it is odd having Bond as the narrator of From Russia With Love, when you consider that for the much of the first part of the story he isn't really in it.

[Gothamite]

I agree with Bond 23 being something like Thunderball, something ultimately fun, but not OTT.
I want to see Craig back for 1 or 2 more before he hangs up his gun. I would like to see Bond 23 more balanced.Then perhaps a more epic spectacle for his fourth outing send off. Although I would hold on the double taking pigeons for awhile.
I have firm favourites in the entertaining Moore era, but I think the time to return would be on a change of actor. Crowd pleasing spectacle and exciting action sequences are part of what makes Bond for me.Even chuck a few clever gadgets in there, why not(in the Thunderball mode of his underwater "Breather") or Daltons "Signature gun" in LTK or his deadly keyring in TLD. Have the gunbarrel at the beginning, and have the Bond theme blaring out a few times. Even have some optional extras on his Aston Martin, which are not too OTT, something like Thunderballs PTS watercannon.

I really hope Skyfall is going in this direction as much as the reviews indicate it is.

[Tony_OO_Black]

Not to give too much away, but it really does. It's like a Connery film, updated, plonked in the 21st century.