198 replies to this topic

[bondrules]

Jeepers, just reading over this page, how did I click into this thread?? Wrong Bond neighborhood for me, lol.

Where was the "LOL" moment for you?

Fleming wrote thrillers, they ripped you up and spat you out the other side, much like what he did to Bond in novel after novel after novel. Find me one self-parodying moment in anything Fleming wrote, one wink or nudge or even a joke... the man had a tremendous sense of cruel irony, but no funnybone whatsoever.

IMHO, that's why many fans have an issue with it, it's not the Bond (ie EON's Bond) they want, but rather a Bond as close as we're ever likely to get to what Fleming wrote in his dark, gritty, hard-edged, non-breezy novels.

You do know, of course, that Fleming himself qualified his work as mere entertainment for grown-ups, and said it was to be taken as a light-hearted means for relaxation?...
As for jokes and/or funny sides, well, I suggest re-reading the novels.

Sure, but entertainments come in lots of packages. Some are funny, but some aren't and have nasty stuff in them like torture and people getting eaten by various critters and poisoned and blown to pieces and just plain shot a lot.

As for jokes, ???

But seriously, are you suggesting there's a kindred sense of humor in EON's version of Bond to what Fleming wrote? From "See that he doesn't get away" and "I think they were on their way to a funeral" to anything Fleming wrote lies quite a chasm IMO: EON wants to release the audience's tension as quickly as possible (good way to sell it IMO); Fleming wanted you to keep on feeling it and would sometimes use irony as a gruesome underscore ("He disagreed with something that ate him").

There's plenty of humor in Fleming. It might not be the "hey, look at me, this is a joke" type, but it's there. And IMHO, it's much more significant, b/c the humor is present as an undertone in plenty of situations. That I prefer. Humor that its not too obvious, and in many ways insulting to my intelligence.

[blueman]

There's plenty of humor in Fleming. It might not be the "hey, look at me, this is a joke" type, but it's there.

But that's the point, EON's brand of humor, from DN on, is on a completely different level than anything Fleming wrote, regardless of Fleming writing entertainments that one doesn't take seriously. Two different beasts. In that sense QOS does indeed come closest in tone to the novels IMO, more so than the 60s films (DN and OHMSS also come close, but the former has too many awkward moments, plus the elimination of a true torture gauntlet with squid in favor of a SPECTRE tie-in does it no favors, and the latter's reliance on one-liners from poor no-funnybone Laz is deadly - I think that's one reason why I like Laz in the role though, he makes a very Flemingish Bond because of his lack of delivery on the quips IMO).

The Hollywood veneer on the EON films made Bond last, won't argue that. But it's great as a Bond fan to see so much of that stripped away from a character originally written with none of it. Harry and especially Cubby were always pulling Fleming's punches in favor of more family-friendly humor and spectacle, though to be fair I doubt any production team could've filmed Dr No's torture tunnel in '62 as originally written by Fleming, just the times. Glad they changed enough to allow Craig/CR/QOS, which BTW are successful as any previous Bond/Bond films. Maybe one day we'll get a preponderance of Bond fans lamenting an era wherein Bond's nuts get whacked amid other, grittily-real action bits and unleavened suspense ala Fleming's writings? If that's jaded, maybe I should be greendude.

[The Shark]

Jeepers, just reading over this page, how did I click into this thread?? Wrong Bond neighborhood for me, lol.

Where was the "LOL" moment for you?

Oh, just too many. The first three and a half Bond films were acceptable, dumbed-down versions of what Fleming wrote IMO.

Funny. I consider them to far more faithful and less "dumbed down" than CR and QoS ever were.

By the time a gaggle of frogmen went splat into the Caribbean, we'd solidly entered new and OTT territory with Bond

Clearly you've never read the Giant Squid "Killing Grounds" chapter in Dr. No, the later half of Thunderball, YOLT, OHMSS, GF, DN, LALD etc...

The majority of Fleming is hard edged but relatively breezy and pulpy in tone, style and accoutrements. On average, a world apart from the dourness of Len Deighton and Le Carré.

And only hedgingly since have EON looked backward for anything more than the plot equivalent of a clothes-hanger (OHMSS and the casting of Dalton excepted)

You complain about a "gaggle of Frogmen" parachuting into the Bahamanian coral reefs, but not the "angels of death", hypnosis raid on OHMSS of the film you mentioned. Just as outlandish and "far out" as Thunderball, only translated into an Alpine backdrop.

. Until Craig and the reboot. Fans lamenting the lack of "Bond" in their Bond - what Harmsway refers to in Fleming's novels as their breezy quality, which makes no effing sense to me - strikes me as something from bizarro world.

Fleming's novels were from bizzaro world. Which is why they are so damn successful, and stood apart from other thrillers at the time, and today even.

Fleming wrote thrillers, they ripped you up and spat you out the other side, much like what he did to Bond in novel after novel after novel. Find me one self-parodying moment in anything Fleming wrote, one wink or nudge or even a joke...

'“I don’t drink tea. I hate it. It’s mud. Moreover, it’s one of the main reasons for the downfall of the British Empire. Be a good girl and make me some coffee.”

From then on he had got his coffee. The expression ‘a cup of mud’ was seeping through the building.'

If you don't consider that at least somewhat funny, then I'd suggest you're the one who should grow a funny bone.

the man had a tremendous sense of cruel irony, but no funnybone whatsoever.

Very much a misinformed and stereotypical post-CR interpretation of Ian's Bond novels. More brainwashed by what modern EON want you to believe about Fleming, than representative of the source material itself.

it's not the Bond (ie EON's Bond) they want, but rather a Bond as close as we're ever likely to get to what Fleming wrote in his dark, gritty, hard-edged, non-breezy novels.

Fleming only wrote one of those, and it's called CASINO ROYALE. You can extrapolate the entire spectrum of Fleming's tone and style from one bloody novel.

[blueman]

You're welcome.

[The Shark]

You're welcome.

Thank you.

[blueman]

the man had a tremendous sense of cruel irony, but no funnybone whatsoever.

Very much a misinformed and stereotypical post-CR interpretation of Ian's Bond novels. More brainwashed by what modern EON want you to believe about Fleming, than representative of the source material itself.

Been reading and rereading the novels for over 30 years, EON's (or anybody's) opinion of them doesn't really dent that foundation much, lol.

Also think there's a world of difference between Fleming's OTT moments, what he did and what his aim was with them, versus EON's more grand spectacle OTT moments in the series, partcularly early in the series when EON was charting it's own course with Fleming's material. But yeah, just one bloke's opinion, don't let it bother your's. Glad I gave you something to chat about though.

[The Shark]

the man had a tremendous sense of cruel irony, but no funnybone whatsoever.

Very much a misinformed and stereotypical post-CR interpretation of Ian's Bond novels. More brainwashed by what modern EON want you to believe about Fleming, than representative of the source material itself.

Also think there's a world of difference between Fleming's OTT moments, what he did and what his aim was with them, versus EON's more grand spectacle OTT moments in the series, partcularly early in the series when EON was charting it's own course with Fleming's material.

I don't disagree there. I just think there's a considerable difference between say Bond flying into space or surfing and ice wave and hundreds of US Marines parachuting into the sea. The former simply ludicrous, the later is entirely plausible in a war scenario or special forces operation, a la some of the US Navy's Pacific Operations in WWII. I'm sure you know about Ian Fleming's 30 Assault Unit and war time antics.

But yeah, just one bloke's opinion, don't let it bother your's. Glad I gave you something to chat about though.

No problem.

[Publius]

Maybe it's just me, but I've always felt you can have the scale and even humor of Thunderball or TSWLM with all the intensity of LTK. There's no reason Bond 23 couldn't be some kind of Bond vs. "super villain attempting mass destruction" plot and still carry on with the relative darkness and no-nonsense approach of QOS.

In fact, it would be the most logical extension of where we left off, with Bond's world gradually growing in scope over the course of the Daniel Craig era. We've been transitioned from seeing Bond battle his demons to seeing him realize the gravity of this previously unknown global menace, Quantum. He's taken these very personal life experiences and turned them into the professional (some would say patriotic) motivation that defined the classic Bond.

[blueman]

Maybe it's just me, but I've always felt you can have the scale and even humor of Thunderball or TSWLM with all the intensity of LTK. There's no reason Bond 23 couldn't be some kind of Bond vs. "super villain attempting mass destruction" plot and still carry on with the relative darkness and no-nonsense approach of QOS.

In fact, it would be the most logical extension of where we left off, with Bond's world gradually growing in scope over the course of the Daniel Craig era. We've been transitioned from seeing Bond battle his demons to seeing him realize the gravity of this previously unknown global menace, Quantum. He's taken these very personal life experiences and turned them into the professional (some would say patriotic) motivation that defined the classic Bond.

I would be interested in seeing this, yeah. And likely what EON has in mind.

[The Shark]

Good idea. Though a light touch (a la FRWL and TB) wouldn't go amiss.

[JimmyBond]

Good idea. Though a light touch (a la FRWL and TB) wouldn't go amiss.

Even if the scope doesn't widen past the world presented to us in both of Craig's two films. I'd still prefer the tone to lighten up considerably. Perhaps not as light as the sillier Moore films, but something closer to (as you pointed out Shark) TB.

[BoogieBond]

Good idea. Though a light touch (a la FRWL and TB) wouldn't go amiss.

Even if the scope doesn't widen past the world presented to us in both of Craig's two films. I'd still prefer the tone to lighten up considerably. Perhaps not as light as the sillier Moore films, but something closer to (as you pointed out Shark) TB.

I think TB or FRWL is perfect, some great humour and lines like "Do you mind if my friend sits this one out" or "Shes had her kicks" delivered perfectly. Also the lightness, sometimes provided by humour with Bond visiting a friend in MI6 like Kerim Bay in FRWL or Dikko Henderson(This is how the novels sometimes have humour in them as well as Bonds laconic/ironic style) just provides a lighter touch and an adventurous feel, perhaps Felix and Bond can get a bit more pally as in their LALD and DAF days. Also I wouldn't mind Bond being a wee bit more interested in Women than he was in QOS now he's over Vesper(I know he was 100% focused on the job aside from Fields), a bit of the Novel Bond(the laconic style was there pre 1962 when M reads the ingredients of white bread Bond replies "I don't eat that much white bread sir") or Connery type charm would not go amiss to additionally provide a lighter touch to mix in with some more gritty, darker and hard hitting scenes.

Edited by BoogieBond, 01 July 2010 - 05:14 PM.

[blueman]

I kinda think EON has already gone there with Craig, especially in the darker QOS wherein the smallish lighter comments sprinkled throughout, while not meeting carbon-copy criteria for FRWL or TB, did serve the same function, at least for this Bond fan and in a modern (ie not 1960s) context. Closer to Fleming than those two earlier films anyway IMHO. 2 cents.

[DamnCoffee]

QUANTUM OF SOLACE primarily features characters who wander around doing nothing, burdened down by backstory conveyed through dialogue. "So the Haitians elected a priest, who raised the minimum wage to one dollar, blah blah blah...." "Do you know General Ernesto Montez? Well, way back in 1971, yadayadayada...." "But the land was sold to the logging company after Greene Planet acquired it, dronedrone...."

What, you want a flashback? Unless you're a lamebrained movie goer who only comes "for the 'splosions", you ought to pay the dialogue a little heed; besides, Bond has only done flashbacks once.

So, I suggest you retract your rather inflammatory opinion, before somebody else does it for you...

Give it a break. Can't you understand that not EVERYONE has to like Quantum of Solace. People have their own opinions. You have to learn to respect that.

You like Quantum of Solace, I understand that. It's totally fine, but for those who don't like it, you expect us to change our opinion to suit yours.

I enjoy Quantum of Solace, don't get me wrong, but people like you put me off it. It's as if you're pushing it down our throats and forcing us to like something we're not that keen on.

[BoogieBond]

I kinda think EON has already gone there with Craig, especially in the darker QOS wherein the smallish lighter comments sprinkled throughout, while not meeting carbon-copy criteria for FRWL or TB, did serve the same function, at least for this Bond fan and in a modern (ie not 1960s) context. Closer to Fleming than those two earlier films anyway IMHO. 2 cents.

Fair Enough, I would just like a few more. The "Won the lottery" line was good. And a couple of others made me smile. The "Florists use that expression" by M and "If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be appreciated" also was good. I think there was more humour in CR, and thats what I would be looking for.
I agree the ironic/Laconic tone is uniquely Bonds and thats where the crowd pleasing humour that suits Craig and they will be pushing towards, sight gags etc will probably be kept to a minimum. Although we had Mr Mendel in CR who was a somewhat foolish character.
One liners, I think enhanced the books, and suit the style of the films and are not completely out of character with the books, they just stretched it a bit. I think Bond 23 will have more of this humour and more of Bond being a "Fantasy figure" rather than a focus on his anguish and internal angst. Thunderball the novel also has a nice breezy quality of an adventure and has Bond chatting up the girl(s)(in the line of duty of course although patricia fearing was more of a conquest). Not saying keep it in the 60s, but I like the keep the things that make the Bond character what he is, while storylines/subplots and added content to make it contemporary.

[The Shark]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

[bondrules]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

Amazing how many times they tried to tickle my funny bone and failed. I could see what they were trying to do, and it just didn't work. Like many many things Forster tried on his Bond movie.

[Messervy]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

Amazing how many times they tried to tickle my funny bone and failed. I could see what they were trying to do, and it just didn't work. Like many many things Forster tried on his Bond movie.

Don't want to turn this thread into something about QoS only but, because it is relevant to what we might mean by "light" or "humour", I would like to state that I actually enjoyed most of those lines.

Of course everyone has his own sense of humour, but for me those were indeed funny. And, among others, they were funny because of the way they were delivered: usually in a serious tone (most notably those delivered by M), and not some "oh look! I'm making a joke here!" (Broz in TND, for instance) or some silly scene (MR or TMWTGG, for instance), as we have had in previous films. I like it when there is a gap between a situation/tone and the dialogue/meaning. In this respect, QoS worked just fine.

[The Shark]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

Amazing how many times they tried to tickle my funny bone and failed. I could see what they were trying to do, and it just didn't work. Like many many things Forster tried on his Bond movie.

Don't want to turn this thread into something about QoS only but, because it is relevant to what we might mean by "light" or "humour", I would like to state that I actually enjoyed most of those lines.

Of course everyone has his own sense of humour, but for me those were indeed funny. And, among others, they were funny because of the way they were delivered: usually in a serious tone.

I personally prefer the way in which Connery delivered his one liners in FRWL, GF and TB. He played them sort of straight, but also gave them a light, mischievous, self-deprecating quality that Craig lacks in his delivery. They were also much better written too, which helps. Maibaum was obviously a much more naturally witty man than P&W or Paul Haggis.

[bondrules]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

Amazing how many times they tried to tickle my funny bone and failed. I could see what they were trying to do, and it just didn't work. Like many many things Forster tried on his Bond movie.

Don't want to turn this thread into something about QoS only but, because it is relevant to what we might mean by "light" or "humour", I would like to state that I actually enjoyed most of those lines.

Of course everyone has his own sense of humour, but for me those were indeed funny. And, among others, they were funny because of the way they were delivered: usually in a serious tone.

I personally prefer the way in which Connery delivered his one liners in FRWL, GF and TB. He played them sort of straight, but also gave them a light, mischievous, self-deprecating quality that Craig lacks in his delivery. They were also much better written too, which helps. Maibaum was obviously a much more naturally witty man than P&W or Paul Haggis.

I couldn't have said it any better.

[Messervy]

I'm not saying they're the best lines of the franchise, but nevertheless they work quite fine (for me). Obviously we have better ones in other films (as you mentionned). What comes to mind, right now, for instance, is the line about Champagne temperature in GF (Bond and Masterton in the hotel in Miami). But what is quite new in QoS is the humourous (so to speak) side of M.

That said, for those of us who want a "lighter" Bond, I guess we need to define what kind of humour we'd like: funny situations and/or funny lines. They're not really the same, do not trigger the same reactions from the audience, and cannot come within the same kind of movie (typically: MR vs. GF).

[DamnCoffee]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

The cinema found half of the lines on your list rather amusing. I remember a good few laugh out loud moments during my first showing. The 'stationary' line was rather well received, as was the 'sea sick' line, 'teachers on sabbatical' line, and M's line about florists.

[The Shark]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

The cinema found half of the lines on your list rather amusing. I remember a good few laugh out loud moments during my first showing. The 'stationary' line was rather well received, as was the 'sea sick' line, 'teachers on sabbatical' line, and M's line about florists.

Strange. My audience was silent except for the "teachers on sabbatical" bit. Dour crowd maybe, or good taste.

[bondrules]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

The cinema found half of the lines on your list rather amusing. I remember a good few laugh out loud moments during my first showing. The 'stationary' line was rather well received, as was the 'sea sick' line, 'teachers on sabbatical' line, and M's line about florists.

Strange. My audience was silent except for the "teachers on sabbatical" bit. Dour crowd maybe, or good taste.

It's hard to judge based on one audience. But if you ask around, you'll see that most ppl found that QoS failed in many areas, quips being certainly one of those.

[DamnCoffee]

I wasn't aware that the humour in Quantum of Solace was seen as a failure. As much as there is wrong with the film (and believe me, there's quite a lot), this is the first I've heard about 'failed quips'.

I felt the humour was pretty much on par with Casino Royale, and in a similar tone. It wasn't forced down your throat, like in some of the older Bond movies.

[bondrules]

I wasn't aware that the humour in Quantum of Solace was seen as a failure. As much as there is wrong with the film (and believe me, there's quite a lot), this is the first I've heard about 'failed quips'.

I felt the humour was pretty much on par with Casino Royale, and in a similar tone. It wasn't forced down your throat, like in some of the older Bond movies.

You are probably referring to the Brosnan era.

[Guy Haines]

There simply wasn't enough good humour in QoS. A lot of embarrassing failed attempts like "she's seasick" or "I can't find the... stationary." The only funny parts were mildly entertaining, which isn't enough.

Absolutely. I can think of other failed attempts:

- I think she has handcuffs. I hope so. (probably the best lines on these failed comedic moments).
-We are teachers on sabbatical and we just won the lottery.
-No it doesn't. I'd rather stay at a morgue. Come on.
-My friends call me Dominic.
-Can I offer an opinion? I really think you people should find a better place to meet.
-If you could avoid killing every possible lead, it would be deeply appreciated.
-When someone says "We've got people everywhere", you expect it to be hyperbole! Lots of people say that. Florists use that expression.
- Among other things, he tried to kill a friend of mine. Your mother? She likes to think so.
- You're late! Got pulled into a meeting.

The cinema found half of the lines on your list rather amusing. I remember a good few laugh out loud moments during my first showing. The 'stationary' line was rather well received, as was the 'sea sick' line, 'teachers on sabbatical' line, and M's line about florists.

Strange. My audience was silent except for the "teachers on sabbatical" bit. Dour crowd maybe, or good taste.

If you think your audience was dour, consider this. In the thirteen years between the start of the Pierce Brosnan era and the release of QoS, I can remember only one moment in which any audience I watched these Bond movies with "laughed out loud", and I've mentioned it elsewhere on this site. It was, all of things, the torture scene in CR - when Bond invites Le Chiffre to "scratch my b***s".

That's right. Not even the funny bits in the Brosnan films made my local audiences laugh much. Maybe we're just a dour (and slightly sick?) lot around here!

[Colossus]

What's shocking is how people describe Dr. No, FRWL and Thunderball as down to earth films when in fact they are also pulpy filled with villain lairs, colorful unique villains and humor but they do it straight faced. And they didn't put an emphasis on the grit and brutality and a dirty sweaty Bond looking at himself in a mirror that you can feel the filmmakers going "see SEE were ARE gritty and brutal!", they treated them hohum matter-of-factly which made them all the more effective.

[The Shark]

What's shocking is how people describe Dr. No, FRWL and Thunderball as down to earth films when in fact they are also pulpy filled with villain lairs, colorful unique villains and humor but they do it straight faced. And they didn't put an emphasis on the grit and brutality and a dirty sweaty Bond looking at himself in a mirror that you can feel the filmmakers going "see SEE were ARE gritty and brutal!", they treated them hohum matter-of-factly which made them all the more effective.

Here here. They were not as self-conscious, po-faced and a dare I say self-indulgent about it, as the Craig era.

[bondrules]

What's shocking is how people describe Dr. No, FRWL and Thunderball as down to earth films when in fact they are also pulpy filled with villain lairs, colorful unique villains and humor but they do it straight faced. And they didn't put an emphasis on the grit and brutality and a dirty sweaty Bond looking at himself in a mirror that you can feel the filmmakers going "see SEE were ARE gritty and brutal!", they treated them hohum matter-of-factly which made them all the more effective.

Here here. They were not as self-conscious, po-faced and a dare I say self-indulgent about it, as the Craig era.

Exactly what I've been predicating. It's almost insulting the way it's done today. The producers take general audiences these days for fools. Sadly, they are right. The general level of intelligence amongst moviegoers decreases with each generation.