197 replies to this topic

[Jack Rapace]

May I suggest this excellent review ? :

http://www.hmss.com/...OS/PBreview.htm

http://www.hmss.com/...OS/RCreview.htm
"I have waited two years for this film and I cannot tell you how disappointed I was. I was trapped in a world that was badly edited, horribly directed, written with little characterization and for the first time ever I can actually say that I was glad it was less than two hours."
"Direction.The worst.In the entire series. Marc Forster should be relegated to designing video games for those afflicted with Attention Deficit Disorder. I cannot believe they let Martin Campbell go after Casino Royale."

Nobody can say better ! " Once you find a director with a feel for the character and the franchise, lock him in. Martin Campbell or not, you desperately need to do this if you want to continue the quality of the series. The Directors you have chosen, from Terence Young onward, have put their individual stamp on Bond for better or worse. For God’s sake Campbell has saved the series from irrelevance twice so far. "

Edited by Jack Rapace, 31 January 2010 - 02:27 PM.

[double o ego]

I don't worship anyone - least the man who had James Bond flying like a ing Fairy into a single prop airplane in GoldenEye pretitles. That was absolutely ghastly!

So much for 'understanding' Mr Bond! Bond as Tinkerbell, perhaps!

Yes because Bond falling out of a plane and his chute opening up seconds before he slams into the ground epitomises understanding all that is James Bond. Give me a break! I find it hilarious and exteremly childish that some people are calling out Campbell's non Bond efforts to slam him. How is that of any relevence?? Campbell had an opinion about QoS, a bond film. Cambell has 2 Bond filom's under his belt. Had Cambell bashed Forster and his non-Bond efforts then yeah, you'd have a leg to stand on but as of right now, your arguments are nonsensical at best.

[HildebrandRarity]

It was Campbell who was responsible for turning James Bond into a Fairy on screen.

Hideous!

[SecretAgentFan]

It was Campbell who was responsible for turning James Bond into a Fairy on screen.

Hideous!

Hilly, please calm down.

And apart from the questionable claim that Bond was turned into a "fairy" in this scene, where do you get your intel that it was Campbell who wanted this scene? EON certainly had a hand in that. The screenwriters. The action coordinator. And so on.

I consider Campbell a great Bond film director. I object to him badmouthing QOS while doing press for "Edge of Darkness". But there´s nothing more to it.

[DamnCoffee]

It was Campbell who was responsible for turning James Bond into a Fairy on screen.

Hideous!

Oh shut up.

Do you realise how annoying you're being?

[Zorin Industries]

May I suggest this excellent review ? :

http://www.hmss.com/...OS/PBreview.htm

http://www.hmss.com/...OS/RCreview.htm
"I have waited two years for this film and I cannot tell you how disappointed I was. I was trapped in a world that was badly edited, horribly directed, written with little characterization and for the first time ever I can actually say that I was glad it was less than two hours."
"Direction.The worst.In the entire series. Marc Forster should be relegated to designing video games for those afflicted with Attention Deficit Disorder. I cannot believe they let Martin Campbell go after Casino Royale."

Nobody can say better ! " Once you find a director with a feel for the character and the franchise, lock him in. Martin Campbell or not, you desperately need to do this if you want to continue the quality of the series. The Directors you have chosen, from Terence Young onward, have put their individual stamp on Bond for better or worse. For God’s sake Campbell has saved the series from irrelevance twice so far. "

Oh dear. That is not a review. That is an opinion thinly veiled as a rant. And - on one point alone - where and when did the "editing" blueprint for James Bond films complete forget and misunderstand the very DNA of editing a Bond film, i.e. they are meant to be panther paced bullets fired at the audience. SOLACE is - in parts - a masterclass in film editing. Unlike a lot of mainstream films out there QUANTUM OF SOLACE knows the greatest editing software out there is the human mind. So we don't have to take the audience by the hand on every edit. Let them fill in their own gaps. Whether some sections of the audience do not like that or indeed understand that creative device has nothing to do with whether Forster got it wrong or not.

And is anyone else thinking that QUANTUM OF SOLACE was just a film? If you don't like it, fine. Don't like it. Fine. Get over it. Fine. But try and understand and see why others do rate, relish and admire it. The problem is, that is harder to do for the anti-brigade (who won't budge on the film for all sorts of cosy nostalgic reasons) than it is for the pro-brigade who completely understand why some don't like it, but find such lines of thought redundant and laughable when confronted with the accompanying anti-sentiments such as "I have seen SOLACE 19 times now on DVD and it has not got any better" (!). The fact that this musing on SOLACE's shortcomings or triumphs will be redundant as soon as a title for a possible future Bond film is announced and a teaser trailer hits YouTube (assuming MGM gets itself off eBay in anything resembling the near future). That is the very nature of fandom - not to scorn it too much, it is fickle and as easily pleased as it is disappointed....and check out what some of the CBN naysayers FIRST thoughts were on QUANTUM OF SOLACE for evidence of that one.

[SecretAgentFan]

The whole "QOS sucks"-ranting here reminds me of "Comic Book Guy" on THE SIMPSONS - you know the episode that makes fun of STAR WARS: EPISODE 1? "This is the worst film ever. I´m going to watch it only three more times... today."

[FLEMINGFAN]

And please, don´t tell me that a director can state his opinion on another film better than a fan. Because in the end, it´s just that: an opinion.

True, but it certainly is a more educated and experienced opinion than a fan or critic would have. More so than an opinion, it could be considered an evaluation.
That said, it is still one man doing something as opposed to the way another would.

However, if you ever sat around and listened to fans and/or critics discuss the art of filmaking with the directors of the films being discussed, it is usually quite uncomfortable and embarassing.

[HildebrandRarity]

... they are meant to be panther paced bullets fired at the audience. SOLACE is - in parts - a masterclass in film editing. Unlike a lot of mainstream films out there QUANTUM OF SOLACE knows the greatest editing software out there is the human mind. So we don't have to take the audience by the hand on every edit.


...If you don't like it, fine. Don't like it. Fine. Get over it. Fine. But try and understand and see why others do rate, relish and admire it. The problem is, that is harder to do for the anti-brigade (who won't budge on the film for all sorts of cosy nostalgic reasons) than it is for the pro-brigade who completely understand why some don't like it, but find such lines of thought redundant and laughable...

Agreed. I can only shake my head in ammusement at the detractors.

I chalk it up to the theory that some of us (a minority, as only a minority of the planet is truly successful) have superior brain fucntions and processing capabilities.

Simple really.

Having said that, more than a minority liked the film:

http://www.rottentom...views_users.php

Indeed, those numbers are far higher than Vertical Limit, Beyond Borders and Legend of Zorro. FAR HIGHER.

In addition, the box office was similar to CR.

So, it's not as if Quantum wasn't an admired and successful film.

I mean, what would Martin Campbell really be without Eon Productions and James Bond?

James Bond was successful 10, 20, 30 years before Campbell came along and it was succesfull after his last one and it will be successful when he's gone.

[Jim]

I chalk it up to the theory that some of us (a minority, as only a minority of the planet is truly successful) have superior brain fucntions and processing capabilities.

And some of us can spell.

I'm not convinced that a reaction, positive or negative, to a bit of light entertainment exemplifies any such thing.

[JimmyBondi]

Anyone watch his piece of crap Zorro sequel that looked like an 80's Roger Moore Bond spoof with acting horses etc.?

....or need I remind you of "Vertica Limit"?

Should I remind you that we're on a James Bond forum? What the hell has Zorro to do with Bond? Roger Spottiswoode has directed "Stop or my mom will shoot!" What does that mean? If the producers thought that way only Martin Scorsese would direct Bond! Martin Campbell did a wonderfull job in CR and GE and that's it!

What, I can't cross reference to other movies? Didn't know about that rule. It's great, that your such a big fan of those two movies: You have your opinion and I have mine. No "that's it!" needed. The point I was trying to make is that Campbell is as much a gun for hire as Spottiswoode or any other director when it comes to Bond. Bond films are much more a team effort than your usual films. How else could TLD and AVTAK be from the same director?

p.s. "Stop or my mom will shoot!" wasn't all bad ;-)

[jaguar007]

Since when is Bond in CR's a lower class man with a working class past?

None of that is implied or said in the script.

Well, there's the line about his being at a fee-paying school by the grace of someone's charity, although that doesn't necessarily mean that his roots are "working class".

It is also Vesper's assumption when evaluating Bond past. Bond neither confirmed or denied it. There was no confirmation in the film about Bonds past at all.

[Jack Rapace]

May I suggest this excellent review ? :

http://www.hmss.com/...OS/PBreview.htm

http://www.hmss.com/...OS/RCreview.htm
"I have waited two years for this film and I cannot tell you how disappointed I was. I was trapped in a world that was badly edited, horribly directed, written with little characterization and for the first time ever I can actually say that I was glad it was less than two hours."
"Direction.The worst.In the entire series. Marc Forster should be relegated to designing video games for those afflicted with Attention Deficit Disorder. I cannot believe they let Martin Campbell go after Casino Royale."

Nobody can say better ! " Once you find a director with a feel for the character and the franchise, lock him in. Martin Campbell or not, you desperately need to do this if you want to continue the quality of the series. The Directors you have chosen, from Terence Young onward, have put their individual stamp on Bond for better or worse. For God’s sake Campbell has saved the series from irrelevance twice so far. "

Oh dear. That is not a review. That is an opinion thinly veiled as a rant. And - on one point alone - where and when did the "editing" blueprint for James Bond films complete forget and misunderstand the very DNA of editing a Bond film, i.e. they are meant to be panther paced bullets fired at the audience. SOLACE is - in parts - a masterclass in film editing. Unlike a lot of mainstream films out there QUANTUM OF SOLACE knows the greatest editing software out there is the human mind. So we don't have to take the audience by the hand on every edit. Let them fill in their own gaps. Whether some sections of the audience do not like that or indeed understand that creative device has nothing to do with whether Forster got it wrong or not.

And is anyone else thinking that QUANTUM OF SOLACE was just a film? If you don't like it, fine. Don't like it. Fine. Get over it. Fine. But try and understand and see why others do rate, relish and admire it. The problem is, that is harder to do for the anti-brigade (who won't budge on the film for all sorts of cosy nostalgic reasons) than it is for the pro-brigade who completely understand why some don't like it, but find such lines of thought redundant and laughable when confronted with the accompanying anti-sentiments such as "I have seen SOLACE 19 times now on DVD and it has not got any better" (!). The fact that this musing on SOLACE's shortcomings or triumphs will be redundant as soon as a title for a possible future Bond film is announced and a teaser trailer hits YouTube (assuming MGM gets itself off eBay in anything resembling the near future). That is the very nature of fandom - not to scorn it too much, it is fickle and as easily pleased as it is disappointed....and check out what some of the CBN naysayers FIRST thoughts were on QUANTUM OF SOLACE for evidence of that one.

You speak abundantly sir, but I think HMSS's writers are more competent than you are on this subject. Your arrogance is useless. They write reviews and they do it very well.

Edited by Jack Rapace, 31 January 2010 - 05:27 PM.

[Satorious]

I chalk it up to the theory that some of us (a minority, as only a minority of the planet is truly successful) have superior brain fucntions and processing capabilities.

Simple really.

Please, get over yourself. This is one of the most small-minded statements I've read on a Bond forum. Just because people disagree with your opinion, that doesn't make them any less intelligent. Stupid really.

[HildebrandRarity]

I chalk it up to the theory that some of us (a minority, as only a minority of the planet is truly successful) have superior brain fucntions and processing capabilities.

And some of us can spell.

I'm not convinced that a reaction, positive or negative, to a bit of light entertainment exemplifies any such thing.

Typo, old boy.

Besides, I would have thought that you, of all people, would actually agree with the theory, having a superior i.q., etc...

...And, case in point, didn't you actually enjoy Quantum? I distinctly recall you doing so.

[Zorin Industries]

You speak abundantly sir, but I think HMSS's writers are more competent than you are on this subject.

That very much depends on what your definition of "competent" is. And - trust me - I know a lazy cliched review when I read one - especially as I have penned a few in my time as well as been at the receiving end of a few.

Such astute reviewing.... it looks like the editing on this film was done by amphetamine-crazed monkeys.

I’m sure the producers are receiving the message loud and clear that the action scenes are difficult to follow, etc., and I hope they’ll learn from these messages and we won’t see this kind of crap again in future Bond films.

I know exactly what the "producers" hear "loud and clear". And it is not found in the likes of this lazy copy nor in blinkered sentiments like "there’s barely anything of the fantasy world of Ian Fleming here". Anyone can write a review of a Bond film (and everyone is entitled to) but when such narrowed notions as "the theme of Quantum of Solace is that ”the dead don’t care about vengeance“ inhabit this one I do feel compelled to mention the shortcomings of this piece. For a review to harp on about some notion of Coca-Cola and not even allude / mention or ironically nudge at Sony Pictures own cola history says it all.

Your arrogance is useless. They write reviews and they do it very well.

They write reviews, yes.

For the record, the contributions on HMSS are not too bad. It is one of the better Bond forums out there. It has an agenda of content that not all have - and that gets a thumbs up from me. But it is automatically limiting to discuss any film in terms of "B -" without ever citing, musing upon or underlining how and why Bond films work in their own context as well as in a wider cinematic one. THAT is why I have problems with it.

[SecretAgentFan]

However, if you ever sat around and listened to fans and/or critics discuss the art of filmaking with the directors of the films being discussed, it is usually quite uncomfortable and embarassing.

Depends on the fans.

[DamnCoffee]

... they are meant to be panther paced bullets fired at the audience. SOLACE is - in parts - a masterclass in film editing. Unlike a lot of mainstream films out there QUANTUM OF SOLACE knows the greatest editing software out there is the human mind. So we don't have to take the audience by the hand on every edit.


...If you don't like it, fine. Don't like it. Fine. Get over it. Fine. But try and understand and see why others do rate, relish and admire it. The problem is, that is harder to do for the anti-brigade (who won't budge on the film for all sorts of cosy nostalgic reasons) than it is for the pro-brigade who completely understand why some don't like it, but find such lines of thought redundant and laughable...

Agreed. I can only shake my head in ammusement at the detractors.

I chalk it up to the theory that some of us (a minority, as only a minority of the planet is truly successful) have superior brain fucntions and processing capabilities.

Simple really.

Having said that, more than a minority liked the film:

http://www.rottentom...views_users.php

Indeed, those numbers are far higher than Vertical Limit, Beyond Borders and Legend of Zorro. FAR HIGHER.

In addition, the box office was similar to CR.

So, it's not as if Quantum wasn't an admired and successful film.

I mean, what would Martin Campbell really be without Eon Productions and James Bond?

James Bond was successful 10, 20, 30 years before Campbell came along and it was succesfull after his last one and it will be successful when he's gone.

Why do box office numbers and reviews mean the world to you? You either like the movie yourself or you do not.

[Tybre]

I chalk it up to the theory that some of us (a minority, as only a minority of the planet is truly successful) have superior brain fucntions and processing capabilities.

And some of us can spell.

I'm not convinced that a reaction, positive or negative, to a bit of light entertainment exemplifies any such thing.

Typo, old boy.

Besides, I would have thought that you, of all people, would actually agree with the theory, having a superior i.q., etc...

...And, case in point, didn't you actually enjoy Quantum? I distinctly recall you doing so.

All right, now you're just going from being annoying to making a prat of yourself. You like Quantum of Solace. We get it. But it isn't some piece of high art. It's a goddamned James Bond movie. (I think) A very good one, but it's still just a Bond movie. If we were discussing something like Citizen Kane, by all means, feel free to call people such as myself, people who find it to be utter rubbish, idiots who lack the mental capacity to understand it. Solace isn't that intelligent of a film. It's probably the most intelligent Bond film; arguably second most intelligent. But as a film, it's no great shakes.

[MrKidd]

... they are meant to be panther paced bullets fired at the audience. SOLACE is - in parts - a masterclass in film editing. Unlike a lot of mainstream films out there QUANTUM OF SOLACE knows the greatest editing software out there is the human mind. So we don't have to take the audience by the hand on every edit.


...If you don't like it, fine. Don't like it. Fine. Get over it. Fine. But try and understand and see why others do rate, relish and admire it. The problem is, that is harder to do for the anti-brigade (who won't budge on the film for all sorts of cosy nostalgic reasons) than it is for the pro-brigade who completely understand why some don't like it, but find such lines of thought redundant and laughable...

Agreed. I can only shake my head in ammusement at the detractors.

I chalk it up to the theory that some of us (a minority, as only a minority of the planet is truly successful) have superior brain fucntions and processing capabilities.

Simple really.

Having said that, more than a minority liked the film:

http://www.rottentom...views_users.php

Indeed, those numbers are far higher than Vertical Limit, Beyond Borders and Legend of Zorro. FAR HIGHER.

In addition, the box office was similar to CR.

So, it's not as if Quantum wasn't an admired and successful film.

I mean, what would Martin Campbell really be without Eon Productions and James Bond?

James Bond was successful 10, 20, 30 years before Campbell came along and it was succesfull after his last one and it will be successful when he's gone.

Hillebrand – I love your posts You are a stereotypical trading floor battery hen I understand how your insecurities make you feel the need to adopt this bullying attitude towards younger traders on your desk – after all, it’s the only thing you have over these new analysts, isn’t it? But this is a Bond fan forum…why oh why are you so defensive? You take this far too personally, there’s obviously something more behind your seemingly excessive drive to be proven right? Didn’t your daddy hug you enough? Now, there are several ways I can see your response going; feigned jocularity, fake dismissiveness or downright abusive, but that’s ok. I understand how soul destroying being a battery hen is (one of the reasons why I always buy organic) and I understand your need to glamorize your job to present a sense of self-worth – but there’s no need to excessively brag how much money you make this time. Anyone, and I mean anyone, with real money and real taste just doesn’t behave or talk the way you do – anonymously or otherwise. You’re a nasty little specimen – basically pretty stupid but likes to shout over others to compensate for feeling inadequate

This forum is at its best when people can debate bond without some dick shouting them down. Hey, I love DAF and YOLT but I’m not offended if you don’t. Your opinions ARE important Hilly (you see, I understand what makes you tick) but unfortunately they’re not very interesting. Now please, can you just go away like a good chap

To the mods; I’m sorry. I must have broken a few rules there. I apologize for any breach and/or offense I’ve caused. I hope you don’t see fit to ban me from these boards. But the guy is a moron! A nasty & pugnacious one at that. Sorry, I did it again. Promise that’s the last time.

Edited by MrKidd, 31 January 2010 - 06:33 PM.

[DamnCoffee]

All right, now you're just going from being annoying to making a prat of yourself. You like Quantum of Solace. We get it. But it isn't some piece of high art. It's a goddamned James Bond movie. (I think) A very good one, but it's still just a Bond movie. If we were discussing something like Citizen Kane, by all means, feel free to call people such as myself, people who find it to be utter rubbish, idiots who lack the mental capacity to understand it. Solace isn't that intelligent of a film. It's probably the most intelligent Bond film; arguably second most intelligent. But as a film, it's no great shakes.

Tybre, that is possibly the best post I've read all day.

Hildebrand, I don't have a problem with you defending Quantum of Solace, but you're acting like such a child. Can you not just accept that some of us do not like the movie as much as you?

I don't get it? Every time someone doesn't agree with what you say you feel the need to insult them. It's as if you're right and we're wrong, all of the time. This is a forum and everyone has to right to voice their opinion, but all you ever do is post garbage as to why you feel Quantum of Solace is superior to everything. Box Office numbers and reviews mean nothing. I mean, you can't have an intelligent discussion, and all you do is come up with stupid answers that make you win and argument. You hate Martin Campbell because he made Bond look like a fairy in GoldenEye, one of the reasons you like Quantum so much is that it's fast, and you don't have to go for a piss break. What the hell!?

Look, the bottom line is, If people want to dislike Quantum of Solace then they can, if they want to like it, they can. Stop being so arrogant and childish on the matter.


Thanks.

[stromberg]

Moderator's note:

Okay, Ladies and Gentlemen that shall be all of this for today. This thread has gone far enough and it deserves to be closed, before people make even bigger fools of themselves as they previously did. As the original topic was the discussion of a news item, I actually don't want to shut it down permanently.

Here's the deal: I'll now close this thread to give everyone an opportunity to cool down a bit. I'll be at my office desk tomorrow morning (in about 15 hours from now), first thing I do when I log on to CBn from there is re-open the thread (unless a strong majority among the team opposes against it).

[stromberg]

Morning everybody.

The discussion is now open again. Hope everyone has given this a good night's sleep, and that everything can proceed in a civil manner.

Thanks fo your patience.

[Zorin Industries]

Thank you for the calming yellow font too...it all helps (!)

[Mr. Blofeld]

I dunno; I think green would've been more calming...

[Zorin Industries]

A light puce perhaps...?

[Mr. Blofeld]

...with lemon striping?

[dinovelvet]

Blah Blah Blah I hate things!

Is that pretty much the gist of it so far?

[Zorin Industries]

...with lemon striping?

It's my first holy communion dress all over again...! (?)

[Mr. Blofeld]

...with lemon striping?

It's my first holy communion dress all over again...! (?)

Didn't know boys wore dresses to Anglican holy communion...