61 replies to this topic

[St. John Smythe]

I thought it appropriate to have this thread, since the LTK soundtrack thread has turned into a discussion about Eric Serra's merits as composer for Goldeneye.

As for me, I hate his soundtrack. So there.

Anyway, discuss away.

[The Shark]

I love the soundtrack. It's dissonant, ambient, romantic, sometimes-atonal, and is truly a masterpiece among Bond soundtracks. It fits the stark, minimalist, post-modern, post-Cold War feel of the film perfectly.

Ideally he should still be composing Bond soundtracks now, instead of the hack we've got.

[jrcjohnny99]

Worst.Bond.Score.Ever

[The Shark]

Obviously you missed out on Arnold, Legrand and Conti's contribution.

You're luckier than me.

[St. John Smythe]

I love the soundtrack. It's dissonant, ambient, romantic, sometimes-atonal, and is truly a masterpiece among Bond soundtracks. It fits the stark, minimalist, post-modern, post-Cold War feel of the film perfectly.

Ideally he should still be composing Bond soundtracks now, instead of the hack we've got.

What?! You love it?! I had no idea, Shark!

Here's the thing though - out of your own admission, "Ladies First," and the scene with Bond and Natalya in the chopper, are weak spots in the score. For me, any sort of, I don't know, adequate-ness in the rest of his score doesn't cancel out any of that agonizingly annoying techno-crap. They're not only weak spots in the GE soundtrack, the are the weakest and most horrendous pieces of music in the entire history of Bond film scores. And I'm not about to forgive Eric Serra for that.

I don't get how Arnold is "too Bondian," either. When I'm watching a Bond film, I expect things to be, well, Bondian, obviously.

Edited by St. John Smythe, 06 January 2010 - 08:10 PM.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

I'm with The Shark on this one. I love it!

[St. John Smythe]

Yeah, I don't think anyone's on the fence with this one. I think you either love it or you hate it.

[Santa]

Hate it. It's a very middle-aged version of young and funky. And it smells like poo.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

Yeah, I don't think anyone's on the fence with this one. I think you either love it or you hate it.

It's the Marmite of Bond scores!

[The Shark]

I love the soundtrack. It's dissonant, ambient, romantic, sometimes-atonal, and is truly a masterpiece among Bond soundtracks. It fits the stark, minimalist, post-modern, post-Cold War feel of the film perfectly.

Ideally he should still be composing Bond soundtracks now, instead of the hack we've got.

What?! You love it?! I had no idea, Shark!

Here's the thing though - out of your own admission, "Ladies First," and the scene with Bond and Natalya in the chopper, are weak spots in the score. For me, any sort of, I don't know, adequate-ness in the rest of his score doesn't cancel out any of that agonizingly annoying techno-crap. They're not only weak spots in the GE soundtrack, the are the weakest and most horrendous pieces of music in the entire history of Bond film scores. And I'm not about to forgive Eric Serra for that.

I don't get how Arnold is "too Bondian," either. When I'm watching a Bond film, I expect things to be, well, Bondian, obviously.

Yeah, but Arnold's soundtracks sound like some average guy at pub's idea of "Bondian", or whatever that means. He really doesn't get Barry, why Barry worked, or even the films he's composing.

Hate it. It's a very middle-aged version of young and funky. And it smells like poo.

Isn't that FYEO?

GE doesn't sound funky at all.

[Santa]

Hate it. It's a very middle-aged version of young and funky. And it smells like poo.

Isn't that FYEO?

GE doesn't sound funky at all.

Exactly. It's about as funky as my thermal underwear.

[The Shark]

Hate it. It's a very middle-aged version of young and funky. And it smells like poo.

Isn't that FYEO?

GE doesn't sound funky at all.

Exactly. It's about as funky as my thermal underwear.

I think that's a good thing.

[St. John Smythe]

Yeah, but Arnold's soundtracks sound like some average guy at pub's idea of "Bondian", or whatever that means. He really doesn't get Barry, why Barry worked, or even the films he's composing.

This is true, since most average guys at pubs have won a Grammy, and have been nominated for a BAFTA and an additional Grammy, and have collaborated with artists such as Bjork, and have been complimented and recommended to Barbara Broccoli by John Barry himself. Oh, wait . . . I may be thinking of someone else . . . named David Arnold. I think his scores are fine - they don't make me want to write time-sucking vehement diatribes railing against them like I do with Eric Serra's unfortunate score. Speaking of which, I'm gonna call it a day on this one. I'll be back tomorrow with more witty insights.

Edited by St. John Smythe, 06 January 2010 - 08:50 PM.

[The Shark]

Yeah, but Arnold's soundtracks sound like some average guy at pub's idea of "Bondian", or whatever that means. He really doesn't get Barry, why Barry worked, or even the films he's composing.

This is true, since most average guys at pubs have won a Grammy, and have been nominated for a BAFTA and an additional Grammy, and have collaborated with artists such as Bjork, and have been complimented and recommended to Barbara Broccoli by John Barry himself. Oh, wait . . .

Doesn't mean they should be composing Bond scores. Not every Golden Globe winning auteur and hack should direct a Bond film either.

[St. John Smythe]

Dang, you caught me in the throws of an edit.

[00Twelve]

Serra's score has fared better in my opinion in recent years than it had previously in the late 90s/early 00s. It's a welcome departure from the usual brassy, jazzy standard that we're accustomed to. The only track that really grates on me is Ladies First. Just doesn't appeal to me.

For all the criticism of Arnold's action cues not having enough melodic drive and sounding like filler music, I would venture to point out a few tracks here, such as Dish Out Of Water, that fit such a description to the letter.

However, as I said, a welcome and creative score that breaks tradition in mostly good ways.

[jrcjohnny99]

Obviously you missed out on Arnold, Legrand and Conti's contribution.

You're luckier than me.

In my opinion, Arnold's scores are all stronger than Serra's; they fit the mood of the piece better and they fit within the canon better.
Conti's score was abysmal and one of the 3 worst Bond scores ever along with Kamen's.
Legrand's I dont count as I dont count NSNA....

[The Shark]

Obviously you missed out on Arnold, Legrand and Conti's contribution.

You're luckier than me.

In my opinion, Arnold's scores are all stronger than Serra's; they fit the mood of the piece better and they fit within the canon better.

They really don't for me. There's nothing worse than a Barry parody, than a bad Barry parody, plus thudding techno, weak harmonies and orchestration.

At least GE's soundtrack was unique, inspired and knew what it was trying to be, rather than having one foot in the the 60s and the other in the 90s at the same time.

[Donovan Mayne-Nicholls]

Even if you don't like it, you should agree is such a different approach that GE would be a whole different film w/o it.
I personally love the moments in which a couple of sustained notes emphasizes the tension in the scene. More than any other Bond film, GE uses technology (videoscreens and the like) in the plot and Serra's synths fit perfectly.
Incidentally, I think the tank scene would've been more interesting with Serra's original theme.

[Syndicate]

Yeah, but Arnold's soundtracks sound like some average guy at pub's idea of "Bondian", or whatever that means. He really doesn't get Barry, why Barry worked, or even the films he's composing.

This is true, since most average guys at pubs have won a Grammy, and have been nominated for a BAFTA and an additional Grammy, and have collaborated with artists such as Bjork, and have been complimented and recommended to Barbara Broccoli by John Barry himself. Oh, wait . . .

Doesn't mean they should be composing Bond scores. Not every Golden Globe winning auteur and hack should direct a Bond film either.

That is true about not eveyone should direct a Bond film, even when they are a great directors, like say Client Eastwood, Peter Jackson, Ridely Scott, John Woo, Martin Scorsese, J.J. Abrams, Ang Lee Michael Bay. Somtime their style just don't fit into a Bond film at all. Right off the back John Woo's style don't fit the James Bond world. It would be great used in like a Die Hard movie.

[Syndicate]

I think it not that bad as some say, there are some good stuff. The ones I think are are good and like are GoldenEye Overture, We Share the Same Passions, Run, Shoot, and Jump and Dish Out of Water.

[sharpshooter]

I'm a fan. Serra truly did create a new sound for Bond. It doesn't hurt to have someone come in and do that every once in a while.

[00Twelve]

The Goldeneye Overture boasts one of the most innovative and interesting instrumentation choices for the guitar riff-- timpani. Absolutely love that.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Eric Serra is a composer with his own style, his work for Luc Besson movies (Le grand bleu, Nikita, Léon, ...) is fabulous. The man creats a score with many electrical influences which gives the movie its own unique atmosphere, Le grand bleu is seen by many as one of the best scores ever. He does the same for GoldenEye giving the movie a post Cold War atmosphere which makes it feel like GoldenEye and no other soundtrack would have given this film such a typical atmosphere. David Arnold, on the other hand, does the same for every soundtrack he writes. If I hear a piece of music of his, I don't know wether it's from Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough or Die Another Day. I do know that it's not feeling fresh, it doesn't show inspiration and is just playing on safe. It's not all bad of course, but I don't find him very inovative. For Bond he wants to be the John Barry of the Playstation generation and he tries too hard. He's good for Michael Bay films like Independence Day, and that is no compliment.

Edited by O.H.M.S.S., 07 January 2010 - 12:36 PM.

[trs007]

When GE was released in 1995, The Hollywood Reporter allegedly reported that Michel LeGrand threw a huge party to mark that fact, that, official or not---NSNA was now not the worst score in the entire Bond series.

For those that feel Serra is so innovative, give LEON (THE PROFESSIONAL) a listen. A LOT of what you hear in GE was already done with his synth crap back for LEON. Of course, for LEON, it was a better score that actually really worked with the film.

That synth sound dates GE. And although people are happy to bash Arnold, look at how much better the music was when Bond made his first appearance in TND. Or, how Barry handled it in OHMSS.

OK, so TND was not an actor's 1st debut as Bond, but still, each film has to have Bond's first appearance. What did we get shoved down our throats after SIX years--some electro noise that totally did not support the automotive foreplay happening on screen. And again, as I said in the other thread--when even the film's own people have a key sequence's music replaced--shows you what they think of their choice.

As previously mentioned, love it or hate it, but, thankfully for us HATERS--Serra is long gone and hopefully will never return. When the sad day arrives that Arnold decides to step down, I hope for Brian Tyler.

Oh, and although I didn't recall seeing it---Serra's "song" that ended the film was the biggest travesty of all. What a horrible way to send the audience exiting after a 6 year wait. To this day, GE remains the only film, when I screen at home, that gets stopped or muted before the credits finish.

[General G.]

Yeah, the end credits song is pretty awful.

But I rather like the rest of the score, particularly the music in the pre-titles sequence.

My least favorite Bond score is For Your Eyes Only. It's hideous -- yes, even the title song. (If "unofficial" Bond pics are included, then Never Say Never Again handily wins the "worst ever" derby.)

[O.H.M.S.S.]

I adore "The Experience of Love", beautiful song without any question.

[Dr.Fell]

Why in god's name did Serra have to sing The Experience of Love ? I bet most who left the theatre wondered "What did we do to him ?".


And as bad as Serra's score was and shamelessly ripped from LEON THE PROFESSIONAL, I am sorry but Micheal Legrand's score was worse. For god's sake listen to music playing when Fatima and Bond are screwing; That was for a Bond movie ? That was WAY worse then the obnoxious "Ladies First" in Serra's score. Also lets not forget Legrand's god awful Jazz music combined with a corny electronic piano.

Edited by Dr.Fell, 07 January 2010 - 06:20 PM.

[Syndicate]

I adore "The Experience of Love", beautiful song without any question.

I like that song also, and that type songs do fit into certain Bond flim. But I remember somone on this forum said that soft rock type music don't work or fit in Bond films. I had said maybe they should use today's style soft rock on the next film, that like The Experience of Love and For Your Eyes Only. He said in between rocks don't work. I think on the topic Who Should Perform The Title Song For Bond 23.

Would today's style soft rock work in Bond movie?

Edited by Syndicate, 07 January 2010 - 09:07 PM.

[The Shark]

And again, as I said in the other thread--when even the film's own people have a key sequence's music replaced--shows you what they think of their choice.

No, it simply shows you that they didn't think that cue worked with the scene. Nothing more.

When GE was released in 1995, The Hollywood Reporter allegedly reported that Michel LeGrand threw a huge party to mark that fact, that, official or not---NSNA was now not the worst score in the entire Bond series.

For those that feel Serra is so innovative, give LEON (THE PROFESSIONAL) a listen. A LOT of what you hear in GE was already done with his synth crap back for LEON. Of course, for LEON, it was a better score that actually really worked with the film.

That synth sound dates GE. And although people are happy to bash Arnold, look at how much better the music was when Bond made his first appearance in TND. Or, how Barry handled it in OHMSS.

OK, so TND was not an actor's 1st debut as Bond, but still, each film has to have Bond's first appearance. What did we get shoved down our throats after SIX years--some electro noise that totally did not support the automotive foreplay happening on screen. And again, as I said in the other thread--when even the film's own people have a key sequence's music replaced--shows you what they think of their choice.

As previously mentioned, love it or hate it, but, thankfully for us HATERS--Serra is long gone and hopefully will never return. When the sad day arrives that Arnold decides to step down, I hope for Brian Tyler.

So you don't just hate Eric Serra and love Arnold, even worse. You want Bryan Tyler to ruin the Bond franchise. God helps us then.

Oh, and although I didn't recall seeing it---Serra's "song" that ended the film was the biggest travesty of all. What a horrible way to send the audience exiting after a 6 year wait. To this day, GE remains the only film, when I screen at home, that gets stopped or muted before the credits finish.

What about DAD?