81 replies to this topic

[Jim]

I honestly believe a lot of people slag off DAD because they think it makes them look intelligent and discriminating.

Yes; anonymously disparaging a film on an internet message board makes everyone look intelligent and discriminating.

it also gives one a bigger willy.

[Trident]

I honestly believe a lot of people slag off DAD because they think it makes them look intelligent and discriminating.

Yes; anonymously disparaging a film on an internet message board makes everyone look intelligent and discriminating.

it also gives one a bigger willy.

You know, that last part is actually true. For a few moments at least...

[Safari Suit]

I'm not of the view that people should gripe about them - quite the reverse, actually. I'm saying that they do gripe about them in DIE ANOTHER DAY, while (by and large) giving the other films a free pass. I'm merely noting the contradiction. I mean, Joe CBner will slam DAD six ways to Sunday, yet he'll chuckle affectionately along with DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, as though the two flicks are, like, really different.

I don't think that's true at all; DAF gets a pretty rough ride around here for one thing, and if you assembled all the posts that have been made here moaning about bad one liners, pink ties(!), Sherrif Pepper, the slide-whistle, the double-taking pidgeon, the delicatessant in stainless steel, the tarzan yell, the clown suit, Californis Girls, the winking fish and about half of TWINE to name only the most obvious things you'd have a thread that last from here to eternity, so your notion that DAD is the only Bond fan whipping boy doesn't ring true to me.

Do I think the slack it gets might be somewhat disproportionate? Yes, but then I don't think it's alone in that either.

[Aris007]

The performances are bad, the special effects are horrendous, the story is rather convoluted and implausible.

I think that every Bond film after Thunderball features these characteristics except from Casino Royale probably!

[The Shark]

The performances are bad, the special effects are horrendous, the story is rather convoluted and implausible.

I think that every Bond film after Thunderball features these characteristics except from Casino Royale probably!

OHMSS, TMWTGG, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE?

They seem pretty good to me.

[Aris007]

The performances are bad, the special effects are horrendous, the story is rather convoluted and implausible.

I think that every Bond film after Thunderball features these characteristics except from Casino Royale probably!

OHMSS, TMWTGG, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE?

They seem pretty good to me.

I believe the plot on these films is rather complicate too. As for the effects, as the years pass they seem a bit "old-fashioned".

[The Shark]

The performances are bad, the special effects are horrendous, the story is rather convoluted and implausible.

I think that every Bond film after Thunderball features these characteristics except from Casino Royale probably!

OHMSS, TMWTGG, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE?

They seem pretty good to me.

I believe the plot on these films is rather complicate too. As for the effects, as the years pass they seem a bit "old-fashioned".

I prefer "old-fashioned" to vulgar, badly done CGI.

Give me well done model-work, back projection, matte painting and stunt work over video-game CGI any day of the year.

[Aris007]

The performances are bad, the special effects are horrendous, the story is rather convoluted and implausible.

I think that every Bond film after Thunderball features these characteristics except from Casino Royale probably!

OHMSS, TMWTGG, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE?

They seem pretty good to me.

I believe the plot on these films is rather complicate too. As for the effects, as the years pass they seem a bit "old-fashioned".

I prefer "old-fashioned" to vulgar, badly done CGI.

Give me well done model-work, back projection, matte painting and stunt work over video-game CGI any day of the year.

Fair enough!

But except from a couple of scenes in DAD the other action sequences are not CGI made, are they?

[plankattack]

As someone's whose post is being held up as "Joe CBn'er trashing DAD but giving other films a free pass" I have to say this - I trash DAD because I just don'think it's very good. Or original. Again its weakness is the "best of" apporach, without being "better than". It fails IMHO, not because of what it wants to be, but because it never reaches that goal. Some of the examples I named (car chase etc) I named because I don't think they top any of the similar moments in the 19 films that preceded it.

I'll admit, I do like the "serious" Bonds more than the "epic" ones, but given a choice I'll watch MR and TSWLM before DAD. (in fact I'll watch TWSLM before a couple of "serious" Bonds).

I don't go after DAD because I feel it makes me superior. Or an anorak. Or obsessive. Or any combination of those three things. I just think it deserves it. And this is coming from someone who's always willing to defend TWINE!

As for being intelligent and discriminating....well, I do like hanging out with you lot!!!

Edited by plankattack, 28 December 2009 - 02:08 PM.

[baerrtt]

Casino Royale[/i] and Quantum of Solace, on the other hand, has at least breathed some new life into this stale franchise and will hopefully serve as the foundation for a new, revitalized Bond franchise moving forward.

I liked QOS, but aside from Forster's hyperkinetic style, I fail to see what "new life" was breathed into the series. In fact, there is barely enough plot to pad out the film's running time. At least DAD had a reason for cheap visual homages, what is QOS's excuse? And the plane chase sequence feels exactly like it was - a shoehorned action sequence leftover from a previous Bond script. And let's not get started on the overeliance of M as some disaproving mother hen. This was a problem during the Brosnan years, (TWINE especially), and it has only gotten worse. Watching the film, it seemed to me that QOS kept cutting to M's office because the film's A plot could not sustain the film on its own.

DAD is braindead cheeky popcorn trash, devoid of any Forster-ian high art pretensions. Personally, I think it's the most fun Bond since Octopussy.

Whether one feels it succeeds or not for me personally the dramatic ideas present in QOS, despite it's flaws, makes it far more rewatchable than anything in DAD which I feel doesn't even work as a 'fun' Bond movie for 98% of it's running time. It's nothing more than a lazy, obvious homage.

[BrozFan]

When I first saw Die Another Day I was quite dissappointed and saw the film as something of a wasted opportunity. I was especially annoyed that this proved to be Brosnan's last film when I think a more serious fifth film would have been good.

That said as the years have rolled by I have learnt to appreciate the film for what it is: outlandish escapism. Fun.

So sticking with the title of the thread, this is what I did like about Die Another Day:
I enjoyed all of the PTS sequence. The surfing was a great old-school stunt done for real and the hovercraft chase new and not overlong. Continuing the narrative through the credits was also an interesting approach with some good visuals from Danny Kleinman.

I both loved and hated Madonna's title song. To claify, the album version was great, the remixed version stuck on the film itself was limp and sounded terrible. I always have wonder if half the Bond fans who hate this song have heard even the original mix of this track.

The vast majority of the first half is good....
The masseuse/hotel scene shows Bond being cool without the sleaze. The Cuba scenes show some good character actor work from the actors playing Raoul and Dr Alvarez (Same goes for Kenneth Tsang as General Moon). A good sense of vindictive glee eminates from Bond's confrontation with Zao in the clinic. The sword fight with Graves is a highlight and Stephens and Brosnan spark off of one another well.

The underground tube station is an interesting location and I find the interaction between Brosnan and Dench particularly enjoyable here.

The virtual reality shooting range was an unexpected way to inject a short slice of action and seeing Bond's office is another treat. The Monty Python in-joke used to cap it off was well written and delievered. As were the following scenes with Q. As a hurrah to the 40 years that had passed I did not mind the many homages one bit.

Once we see the invisible car though the tone shifts dramatically and it makes the following surrealism of ice palaces and space lasers all the more incongruous.
Yes, it has some woeful flaws like the very poor CGI, Halle Berry's horrendous acting, Grave's Robocop suit to name but a few but truth be told, overall, the Bond series is littered with such things. Die Another Day is no masterpiece but the few quality pictures in the series are far outnumbered by, for want of a better word, the 'bad'. None of the flaws in this movie are any worse than double-taking pigeons.

So for all the cringeworthy bits I revel in Brosnan's effort filled performance, or the the talents of a genuinely fine actor like Toby Stephens. Even Rosamund Pike with little acting experience was very credible in the role. Rick Yune was utilised well (ie. in a way that made his character enjoyable without highlighing his lack of acting prowess). Bar a few hammy lines from Purvis and Wade eg. "You're no good to anyone now" the relationship between Bond and M was genuinely terse without Bond seeming petulant or Dench being motherly/condescending (something I'm not overly keen on in the Craig films). There are some interesting locations on offer, some experimental music, a new style of credits sequence, some good actions scenes and Aston Martin returns to the stable - even if you can't see it half the time!

It is not my favourite Bond movie by any stretch of the imagination but I enjoy the anniversary element of the movie and I think explains the movie well; Die Another Day is the singular presentation of the various tones and styles that have permeated 40 years of Bond movies.
I can see why many argue it has more style than substance due to its self-knowing winks and nods, but I've stopped looking at what it could have been and now I enjoy the spectacle.

[Daddy Bond]

Okay, here is what I did like about DAD:

1. The PTS.
2. Bond being captured and tortured.
3. Yes, I actually liked the title sequence working with the plot of the movie.
4. Bond escaping sickbay on board the ship and swimming to shore.
5. Bond walking into the hotel to get a room.
6. Bond getting ready in the hotel room.
7. The sword fight.
8. The ice chase with the Aston and Jag (minus the invisible car part)

That's about it...

[broadshoulder]

Once we see the invisible car though the tone shifts dramatically and it makes the following surrealism of ice palaces and space lasers all the more incongruous.
Yes, it has some woeful flaws like the very poor CGI, Halle Berry's horrendous acting, Grave's Robocop suit to name but a few but truth be told, overall, the Bond series is littered with such things. Die Another Day is no masterpiece but the few quality pictures in the series are far outnumbered by, for want of a better word, the 'bad'. None of the flaws in this movie are any worse than double-taking pigeons.

.

Yes. They are. There is such are concentration of crapola in this film that you need a facemask to watch it.

You cite MR.MR has problems but they are generally to do with the obtuse inappropriate humour. DAD doesnt even get the humour right. MR sent itself up, it knew it wasnt being serious. DAD thinks its a serious clever movie but doesnt get get anything right - script, directing, acting, plot, casting, SFX, locations, music, cgi.

The Broccolis should have done more. But maybe they liked it? But unless I'm proved otherwise I think they just came into Pinewood to sign the cheques.

[rogermoore007]

my 2 cents may be a bit late but, to summarize extra-concisely:

Loomis =

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Over all these years, I've seen Die Another Day as a terrible film, one of the worst, now, after some serious thought...


.... I like it.


Seriously, Die Another Day isn't that bad at all, it's just pure escapist fantasy. Brosnan shines in the role. Halle Berry isn't that annoying any more, and David Arnold produces one of the most thrilling, exciting and epic scores ever. The Brosnan era was all about action, and I praise Michael and Barbara for keeping Bond completely modern. AND, I feel that this is a perfect tribute for the 40th Anniversary, it's everything Bond should've been back in the day.

Die Another Day is everything Brosnan's Bond should be, fun, exciting and general laugh. Some on here may think it's terrible, but I feel that the 20th Bond movie was a brilliant way of bringing James Bond into the 21st Century. I am at the stage now where I can just sit back, relax and enjoy it. It's not supposed to be taken seriously, it's just pure escapism.

I was 12 years old when Die Another Day was released, and I have to say, I wasn't at all mature to grasp the prospect of a serious Bond, saying that though, Daniel Craig is fantastic in the role, and Casino Royale is one of my favorite Bond movies.

Come on people! Share the love for Die Another Day. After 7 years I've learned to like it, it's not that bad at all. I was debating whether to post this in the Die Another Day reaction thread, but I feel that this on it's own, will spark some interesting discussion.

Thanks for posting this thread, Mharkin. DAD is actually the Pierce Brosnan Bond film I enjoyed the most. That may be faint praise since none of Brosnan's Bond films made my top half in my rankings. Nonetheless, it does feature Brosnan's best and least PC turn in the role. I love the sword fight(something I'd wanted to appear in Bond films for years), the opening surfing stunt, the scene with Peaceful Fountains of Desire, the use of North Korea filling in for the role the former Soviet Union played in films like TLD and OP. There are plenty of flaws but I won't bring them up here since there are no lack of DAD critics who have done so already.

What I find interesting is how some DAD critics seem to react to DAD as if the first 3 Brosnan Bond films were classic Bond cinematic masterpieces. It wasn't as if DAD was the immediate sequel to DN-FRWL-GF or to FRWL-GF-TB. We had GE-TND-TWINE then DAD. Among its 3 immediate predecessors, DAD holds its own just fine.

[St. John Smythe]

So I was at Walmart today (I know, I know, but I live in a small town and honestly, there aren't many places to go). And the 2 disc DVD edition of DAD (from 2003) was $5. Even though it's among my least favorite Bond films, I snatched it up. And now I just realized that it's full screen. Boo. So, I'm torn -- I know that I'll rarely watch it, so I'm tempted to keep it. But I'm really not a fan of full screen, so I'm tempted to take it back. Decisions, decisions . . .

This discussion has had no relevance whatsoever to the topic at hand, and for that, I sincerely apologize.

[Mr. Somerset]

So I was at Walmart today (I know, I know, but I live in a small town and honestly, there aren't many places to go). And the 2 disc DVD edition of DAD (from 2003) was $5. Even though it's among my least favorite Bond films, I snatched it up. And now I just realized that it's full screen. Boo. So, I'm torn -- I know that I'll rarely watch it, so I'm tempted to keep it. But I'm really not a fan of full screen, so I'm tempted to take it back. Decisions, decisions . . .

This discussion has had no relevance whatsoever to the topic at hand, and for that, I sincerely apologize.

I would keep it, then give it away as a joke birthday gift or white elephant gift.
I had mistakingly picked up the pan and scan dvd of DAD awhile back, and I think I gave it to a friend who didn't much care for widescreen.
I always thought the features on that dvd were better than the later release anyway.

[broadshoulder]

So I was at Walmart today (I know, I know, but I live in a small town and honestly, there aren't many places to go). And the 2 disc DVD edition of DAD (from 2003) was $5. Even though it's among my least favorite Bond films, I snatched it up. And now I just realized that it's full screen. Boo. So, I'm torn -- I know that I'll rarely watch it, so I'm tempted to keep it. But I'm really not a fan of full screen, so I'm tempted to take it back. Decisions, decisions . . .

This discussion has had no relevance whatsoever to the topic at hand, and for that, I sincerely apologize.

There are plenty of uses for a DAD DVD.

- coffee coaster
- bookmark
- indoor frisbee
- support for a wobbly chair.

Do anything with it but watch it.

[freemo]

Sorry, but I can't bring myself to completely hate this film.

Yes, it's utter garbage, but at least it holds it's head up high. There's something very apologetic about the other Brosnan Bond films - GoldenEye in particular reminds of a fat kid in grade school who used to make jokes about himself, thus beating everyone else to the punch. While they wince and whimper at the notion of being "merely a James Bond film", DAD embraces it's glorious past, loudly and proudly. True BrosnanBond is still an Octopussy minus the Octo, but the film has cojones, it has swagger, albeit an "unjustified" swagger.

GOLDENEYE, TOMORROW NEVER DIES and THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH cower in fear, petrified at the thought of being fodder for third-rate stand-up comics. DIE ANOTHER DAY stands tall, hand to the heart and thumb to the nose, ready to take on all-comers. Desperate to take on all-comers. This isn't a film, it's an act of defiance. A declaration of war. And it's message is loud and clear: "Here I am. Do your worst".

DIE ANOTHER DAY: It's here. It's queer. Get used to it.

[St. John Smythe]

I would keep it, then give it away as a joke birthday gift or white elephant gift.
I had mistakingly picked up the pan and scan dvd of DAD awhile back, and I think I gave it to a friend who didn't much care for widescreen.
I always thought the features on that dvd were better than the later release anyway.

Yeah, they do seem better. I was sort of excited about that. I think I'll keep it. I probably won't watch it that much so maybe fullscreen won't be a big deal, and I pretty much just bought it on my quest to complete my Bond series. Plus, since I bought TB and LTK as a single disc, and since all three of these films (TB, LTK, DAD) are part of the same 5-disc volume, it's not such a bad deal.

Odd, though - the LTK version I bought at Walmart was the '99 edition with special features. Now I noticed that they're selling the '05 single disc copy with no special features. Guess I lucked out.

[DaveBond21]

Of course, Mhark. I'm glad you've come to face reality. It's just the last 45 minutes that suck. (And boy do they ever. Absolutely painful.)

But for 90 minutes, it's a whole lotta fun.

I think this really sums it up;
excellent first 2/3rds or so but once they get to iceland (or wherever they're supposed to be)....

Agreed. It's fine up to the point where we find ourselves in Iceland - without ever using that particular location properly, by the way - and then it dissolves into an awful sci-fi comic book mess.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I don't understand the amount of loathing Die Another Day receives either. Is it among the best Bond films? No. But it is far from the worst. It is a celebratory Bond film that tosses in everything for the sake of a fun adventure--including the kitchen sink. Like all Bond films, it sets out to entertain and that it does (at least for most people outside of a number of hardcore Bond fans). Pierce Brosnan arguably gives his best performance as Bond (it's either this or Tomorrow Never Dies), it has some great stunt work, a welcome return of the Aston Martin, and it features a good David Arnold score. But for all its positives, the film does fail to fire on all cylinders, and as a result, I find it a middle of the road 007 film.