81 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

Uh, yes, it IS that bad.

Couldn't have stated it better myself.


There was a good idea for a film somewhere in all of that mess, but any trace of that had disappeared by the time the first 15 minutes of the film were over.

[Safari Suit]

Uh, yes, it IS that bad.

Couldn't have stated it better myself.

Seriously? If that's the standard of film analysis the public demand these days, no wonder Ben Lyons made it to the big time!

I kid, I kid, don't take that personally.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I think it's the # 1 worst movie of the 2000s.

[JimmyBond]

I think DAD really is one of the most unintentionally cheap looking, incredibly expensive movies ever made.

I can't help but agree with this statement. There are moments here and there where you can see where the budget went (the pretitle sequence is especially great looking) but then there are moments where the film just looks downright cheap (Bond exiting Hong Kong harbor, for instance). The cheap lights in the background which is meant to represent the cities skylinie is embarrassingly bad.

[mccartney007]

Rumor has it that Zencat thinks it might be the best James Bond film of all time. I am sure someone can find a thread...

[jamie00007]

The movie gets worse every time I see it. Its at the point now where I really do find it unwatchable. I have a Bond marathon once a year or so and watch all the movies in order over a week or two, and the last time I just couldnt sit through it. Turned it off around the time of the "they feast" conversation.

I was very underwhelmed when it was first released. I didnt hate it, I just thought the last half was as boring as hell, the special effects looked cheap and Jinx was annoying. But over time, the bad dialogue just grates more and more, and the special effects (which werent even good for their time) have dated terribly.

My biggest problem is that it just looks so cheap. Not just the effects but the whole movie. I mean, wheres all the location shooting? Everything looks to have been shot on stages, and the rare outdoor scene looks to have been cheaply shot in places that look nothing like the places they are standing in for. The south of England looks in no way like North Korea. Then theres the stunts, or lack there of. Why bother going to the trouble and expense of doing a stunt for real when someone can just make a cartoon Bond puppet do it on a computer? Then theres the climax with the crashing plane. Surely some of the worst special effects of any big budget movie this decade? Bond movies traditionally set the standard for the big budget action spectactular, but this movie just looks like any one of those already forgotten cheap late 90's/early 2000's action movies. Then came the Bourne Identity in the same year which made DAD look even worse than it was. No wonder people were questioning Bond's relevance at the time.

Add to all that a ludicrous story that makes no sense and some of the worst dialogue Ive ever heard, and I'd have to consider DAD to be one of the worst movies Ive seen this decade.

[Aris007]

When you decide to sit down and throw the DAD DVD in the player you don't expect a nerve-cracking thriller which will make you bite your nails! You expect a cool action film, which you can watch with your friends and have a good time! I know that it should have been a more thirller one but it was the 40th anniversary. Producers wanted to make a celebration film with all the elements that the general audience recognise in Bond. They didn't refer only in the fans or else they would have made another film.

But Aris, I'm not sure it is a cool action film. Other than the neat trick of the ejector seat hatch flipping the Aston back (an homage of originality and ingenuity) there isn't one stand-alone moment or sequence where you go "oooh, never seen that before!" The PTS is a generic shoot-em-up feeling too much like the mini-epic of the previous film. There's nothing fresh about Cuba, while most of action in the ice palace and the car chase itself is "been there, done that." The final fisticuffs on the plane have been done better (it's not even the best fight sequence of Brozza's tenure) while the final stunt is questionable CGI which insults, rather than improves upon the TLD moment it references. It's the same CGI which makes a mockery of the ice-surfing, which, if it could have been done for real, had the potential to be a jaw-dropping moment which so many of the more modern Bonds have contained.

I find the sword-fight the freshest and most exhilarating action sequence of the film, and it's that moment that climaxes the first hour that conventional wisdom decrees the best part of the film.

DAD may well have wanted to be a fun, up-front action film stuntfest, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon or Bourne, but how it actually played out(sit down Tamahori, we'll never be finished with you!) is the proverbial death of it. The aspirations for DAD clearly outdid the execution of that inspiration.

Hindisght is so 20/20, but looking at Tamahori's body of work since, DAD wasn't a bad day at the office for him - it was the most that could have been expected. Good grief, Renny Harlin could have made a better shoot 'em up!

May I remind to everybody that the film was released in 2002. Before this we'd seen may many other OTT action films. So whoever the director, the actor or the script was it was highly possible that we'd see something that we'd have seen in previous action films in Hollywood. That's what happened with TWINE, TND and even QoS. Remember the plane scenes? And then the parachute jump? This was also full of CGI but I don't see anybody mention it!

And afterall, we as Bond fans have seen so many action scenes that almost everyhting looks like dejavu. And didn't we all know which the result would be after the director was announced?

[JimmyBond]

That's what happened with TWINE, TND and even QoS. Remember the plane scenes? And then the parachute jump? This was also full of CGI but I don't see anybody mention it!

Where have you been? That's been one of the biggest criticisms of QoS.

[mccartney007]

That's what happened with TWINE, TND and even QoS. Remember the plane scenes? And then the parachute jump? This was also full of CGI but I don't see anybody mention it!

Where have you been? That's been one of the biggest criticisms of QoS.

Please refer to the winky face for further details.

[Aris007]

That's what happened with TWINE, TND and even QoS. Remember the plane scenes? And then the parachute jump? This was also full of CGI but I don't see anybody mention it!

Where have you been? That's been one of the biggest criticisms of QoS.

Yes, I have to admitt my comment was misleading.

What I was trying to say was that as far as I'm concerned QoS and DAD are preety similar. In both films Bond has something personal to deal with, his people dump him. Also in these two films there are action sequences, where we have obvious CGI interferences.

Thing is though that the majority of the users in these boards, according to Jim's poll, give a nice 8 in QoS while also the majority think that DAD is the worst, the silliest movie of the franchise, thing that's somehow unfair if you ask me.

Sorry if I insulted anyone.

[bondrules]

I much prefer to watch Mean Girls (2004) than DAD. It's a smarter film altogether. (there is no joke in here)

[Roger Moore's Bad Facelift]

Casino Royale[/i] and Quantum of Solace, on the other hand, has at least breathed some new life into this stale franchise and will hopefully serve as the foundation for a new, revitalized Bond franchise moving forward.

I liked QOS, but aside from Forster's hyperkinetic style, I fail to see what "new life" was breathed into the series. In fact, there is barely enough plot to pad out the film's running time. At least DAD had a reason for cheap visual homages, what is QOS's excuse? And the plane chase sequence feels exactly like it was - a shoehorned action sequence leftover from a previous Bond script. And let's not get started on the overeliance of M as some disaproving mother hen. This was a problem during the Brosnan years, (TWINE especially), and it has only gotten worse. Watching the film, it seemed to me that QOS kept cutting to M's office because the film's A plot could not sustain the film on its own.

DAD is braindead cheeky popcorn trash, devoid of any Forster-ian high art pretensions. Personally, I think it's the most fun Bond since Octopussy.

[The Shark]

Personally, I think it's the most fun Bond since Octopussy.

There are 20 minutes of it that fun, and also very Fleming-esque. These include bits and pieces of the PTS, minus sleep-inducing xXx overchase. Some scenes in Hong Kong and Cuba, minus Jinx, bad dialogue about birds, stupid action scenes in the clinic, CGI cliff diving etc...

The rest would make a brilliant cure for insomnia.

The credits (sound on mute) are quite nice, relaxing in a strange kind of way.

[tdalton]

Uh, yes, it IS that bad.

Couldn't have stated it better myself.

Seriously? If that's the standard of film analysis the public demand these days, no wonder Ben Lyons made it to the big time!

I kid, I kid, don't take that personally.

Who said that it was meant as the standard of film analysis these days? Diabolik made a statement, albeit a very short one, and I simply agreed with it.

[Safari Suit]

Must...resist...prolonging...

[broadshoulder]

I think it's the # 1 worst movie of the 2000s.

Thats up against some pretty stiff competion, but yes, I think it is a contender for one of the worst of the decade.

That may be because since the sixties we have expected quality action thrillers/extravaganzas since with the Bonds. DAD was generic Hollywood action schlock, it was British made but it didnt have the British charm you get with the Bonds. Tamahori sold the "get with the kids" arguent to Babs anbd Mickey and they swallowed.

I still say the sitnker of the decade is "The Phantom Menace" a film where the director wasnt that interested in directing but getting his cgi creations up on screen. The same with DAD. Tamahori pushed for cgi. It was his idea of the dragster and iceflow. Like TPM he forgot about the actors. Where is the character progression in DAD? In every Bond film ther is abit of character progression even for the smallest parts. But in DAD the characters are 100% cliche spouting cardboard.

I know there is a generation who likes DAD because Pierce is their Bond and they want "fun", but there is also a generation that was weaned on The Empire Strikes Back on their mothers knee and The Phantom Menace doesnt cut the mustard.

[Safari Suit]

Phantom Menace was from the previous decade, so there's room for DAD at the top of your worst list if you so wish...

[JimmyBond]

Phantom Menace was from the previous decade, so there's room for DAD at the top of your worst list if you so wish...

I dunno, I always felt that Revenge of the Sith was far worse than Phantom Menace. The way that film tries to "cutely" deposit all the characters so they'll be ready for A New Hope feels extremely contrived rather than natural. Yoda...out of nowhere just decides to go into exile!? There's no build up to it, no real reason explained onscreen, he's all of a sudden just: "Into exile, I must go."

[Roger Moore's Bad Facelift]

The PTS is a generic shoot-em-up feeling too much like the mini-epic of the previous film.

Disagree.
Prior to DAD, I had never seen a hovercraft chase sequence before - much less one in the DMZ.
Generic is the last word I would use to describe it.
True to their intentions, P&W wrote DAD as a larger-than-life YOLT/TSWLM type entry with setpieces not seen anywhere else.

There's nothing fresh about Cuba, while most of action in the ice palace and the car chase itself is "been there, done that."

Now I've heard everything...
You're telling me a car chase across a frozen glacier lake is "been there, done that"?
C'mon.
The very sight of the ice palace inspired me with child-like awe.
For the first time since Goldeneye, all the money was up there on the screen (some dodgy cgi notwithstanding).
DAD is loaded with moments where you crack a smile and think to yourself "only in a Bond movie."
I wish QOS had more of them.

[Loomis]

The PTS is a generic shoot-em-up feeling too much like the mini-epic of the previous film.

Disagree.
Prior to DAD, I had never seen a hovercraft chase sequence before - much less one in the DMZ.
Generic is the last word I would use to describe it.
True to their intentions, P&W wrote DAD as a larger-than-life YOLT/TSWLM type entry with setpieces not seen anywhere else.

There's nothing fresh about Cuba, while most of action in the ice palace and the car chase itself is "been there, done that."

Now I've heard everything...
You're telling me a car chase across a frozen glacier lake is "been there, done that"?
C'mon.
The very sight of the ice palace inspired me with child-like awe.
For the first time since Goldeneye, all the money was up there on the screen (some dodgy cgi notwithstanding).
DAD is loaded with moments where you crack a smile and think to yourself "only in a Bond movie."
I wish QOS had more of them.

Excellent post, Roger Moore's Bad Facelift. Agreed with every word.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I utterly fail to understand why so many "Bond fans" roast DAD, considering all the crap they happily put up with in the other films. As though all the other Bond outings are as adult, complex, intelligent and artistically accomplished as CHINATOWN or whatever. As though the series had never known any cheesiness, hamminess, unbelievable action scenes, cardboard villains, plastic Bond girls, ridiculous plots, etc. until right out of a clear blue sky Eon made DAD and dropped the ball spectacularly.

I honestly believe a lot of people slag off DAD because they think it makes them look intelligent and discriminating. They feel that they need a Bond film to say they dislike because they fear that, otherwise, people will take them for sad, obsessive anoraks who'll tolerate anything in the name of 007. It's as though they're saying: "See, I may love the juvenile James Bond films, but I still have some taste."

[Safari Suit]

Phantom Menace was from the previous decade, so there's room for DAD at the top of your worst list if you so wish...

I dunno, I always felt that Revenge of the Sith was far worse than Phantom Menace.

They're all much of a muchness to me, so I couldn't tell you which was worse. All I can say is I remember watching Sith in the cinema some five years ago being a somewhat more interesting experience than either of the two times(!) I was forced to see Phantom some 10 years ago.

The real worst movie of the decade, objectively, is likely to be something none of us have ever heard of. Though from what I've seen of it, an obscure but mildly infamous movie called Ben & Arthur would be hard to top.

[Roger Moore's Bad Facelift]

Excellent post, Roger Moore's Bad Facelift. Agreed with every word.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I utterly fail to understand why so many "Bond fans" roast DAD, considering all the crap they happily put up with in the other films. As though all the other Bond outings are as adult, complex, intelligent and artistically accomplished as CHINATOWN or whatever. As though the series had never known any cheesiness, hamminess, unbelievable action scenes, cardboard villains, plastic Bond girls, ridiculous plots, etc. until right out of a clear blue sky Eon made DAD and dropped the ball spectacularly.

I honestly believe a lot of people slag off DAD because they think it makes them look intelligent and discriminating. They feel that they need a Bond film to say they dislike because they fear that, otherwise, people will take them for sad, obsessive anoraks who'll tolerate anything in the name of 007. It's as though they're saying: "See, I may love the juvenile James Bond films, but I still have some taste."

Thanks Loomis.
It’s always good to be joined by another DAD-loving voice in the wilderness.
For all its cartoon excess, I always felt the film was simply loads of fun.
The only portion that begins to insult my discriminating tastes is the innuendo-laden meet up between Jinx and 007 (“my, that’s a mouthful”).
The only thing missing is some bow-chika-wow-wow vintage 70's pørn music.
But even THAT horribly written scene isn’t all that much of a break from cannon.
Does any sequence in DAD, for instance, come close to matching Octopussy for sheer classroom vulgarity, such as when Magda utters post-coitus to 007 “I need a refilling” followed by Rog’s signature Benny Hill-like double take?
I think not...
Maybe the Roger Moore fans simply have a higher threshold for stupidity.
His films, more than any other, depend on the audience being in on the joke.
DAD operates on much the same wavelength.
Check your brain at the cloakroom, and enjoy the action, sex, and spectacle.

[Safari Suit]

I find the notion that people around here aren't griping about the silly moments in previous Bond films enough a curious one, personally.

[Loomis]

I'm not of the view that people should gripe about them - quite the reverse, actually. I'm saying that they do gripe about them in DIE ANOTHER DAY, while (by and large) giving the other films a free pass. I'm merely noting the contradiction. I mean, Joe CBner will slam DAD six ways to Sunday, yet he'll chuckle affectionately along with DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, as though the two flicks are, like, really different.

It's almost as though DAD is held to a higher standard, although why that should be the case beats me hollow.

[dinovelvet]

The PTS is a generic shoot-em-up feeling too much like the mini-epic of the previous film.

Disagree.
Prior to DAD, I had never seen a hovercraft chase sequence before - much less one in the DMZ.
Generic is the last word I would use to describe it.
True to their intentions, P&W wrote DAD as a larger-than-life YOLT/TSWLM type entry with setpieces not seen anywhere else.


Good point, Roger. In fact, P&W have regularly come up with fresh, innovative action sequences, but have been let down by the execution. In TWINE we had a ski chase with parahawks chasing Bond, now on paper that's an interesting idea and does something different with the Bond Ski Chase Scene ™, but unfortunately they were saddled with a kitchen-sink drama director who just went through the motions with the scene so he could get to the tedious "peeling back the layers" stuff.

There's nothing fresh about Cuba, while most of action in the ice palace and the car chase itself is "been there, done that."

Now I've heard everything...
You're telling me a car chase across a frozen glacier lake is "been there, done that"?
C'mon.
The very sight of the ice palace inspired me with child-like awe.
For the first time since Goldeneye, all the money was up there on the screen (some dodgy cgi notwithstanding).
DAD is loaded with moments where you crack a smile and think to yourself "only in a Bond movie."
I wish QOS had more of them.

I agree. When it cuts to Iceland for the first time and the pseudo-Bond theme kicks in as the camera speed ramps across the wasteland, it's a great moment. The swordfight is another brilliant "Only Bond!" scene, it's easily the best action scene of all the Brosnan films IMHO.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Check your brain at the cloakroom, and enjoy the action, sex, and spectacle.

At least Octopussy had a villainous plot that would make you think, rather than one that could kill off brain cells...

[Publius]

I'm not of the view that people should gripe about them - quite the reverse, actually. I'm saying that they do gripe about them in DIE ANOTHER DAY, while (by and large) giving the other films a free pass. I'm merely noting the contradiction. I mean, Joe CBner will slam DAD six ways to Sunday, yet he'll chuckle affectionately along with DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, as though the two flicks are, like, really different.

It's almost as though DAD is held to a higher standard, although why that should be the case beats me hollow.

Because DAD actually had a budget to work with, whereas DAF spent it all on Connery.

Because DAD was riding a three film wave of increasing success with Brosnan as Bond, whereas DAF was scrambling to stabilize the series after Lazenby's messy exit.

Because the humor in DAF at least has that Connery "cool" some of the time ("I got a brother." "...small world."), whereas most of the humor in DAD sounds like it was written by a grade schooler ("cockfight" "mouthful" "Big Bang theory" "Yo momma" and so on).

Basically, where DAF was a series of Bond cliches strung together to appease the masses, DAD was a series of parodies of Bond cliches cobbled for the same purpose.

And that's coming from someone whose least favorite Bond film is DAF.

[The Shark]

Excellent post, Roger Moore's Bad Facelift. Agreed with every word.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I utterly fail to understand why so many "Bond fans" roast DAD, considering all the crap they happily put up with in the other films. As though all the other Bond outings are as adult, complex, intelligent and artistically accomplished as CHINATOWN or whatever. As though the series had never known any cheesiness, hamminess, unbelievable action scenes, cardboard villains, plastic Bond girls, ridiculous plots, etc. until right out of a clear blue sky Eon made DAD and dropped the ball spectacularly.

I honestly believe a lot of people slag off DAD because they think it makes them look intelligent and discriminating. They feel that they need a Bond film to say they dislike because they fear that, otherwise, people will take them for sad, obsessive anoraks who'll tolerate anything in the name of 007. It's as though they're saying: "See, I may love the juvenile James Bond films, but I still have some taste."

Thanks Loomis.
It’s always good to be joined by another DAD-loving voice in the wilderness.
For all its cartoon excess, I always felt the film was simply loads of fun.
The only portion that begins to insult my discriminating tastes is the innuendo-laden meet up between Jinx and 007 (“my, that’s a mouthful”).
The only thing missing is some bow-chika-wow-wow vintage 70's pørn music.
But even THAT horribly written scene isn’t all that much of a break from cannon.
Does any sequence in DAD, for instance, come close to matching Octopussy for sheer classroom vulgarity, such as when Magda utters post-coitus to 007 “I need a refilling” followed by Rog’s signature Benny Hill-like double take?
I think not...
Maybe the Roger Moore fans simply have a higher threshold for stupidity.
His films, more than any other, depend on the audience being in on the joke.
DAD operates on much the same wavelength.
Check your brain at the cloakroom, and enjoy the action, sex, and spectacle.

I guess. Though the problem is DAD tries to have it both ways. The first half has pretensions (respectable ones) of being a gritty spy thriller, whereas the second half wants to be a campy, vulgar, Americanised, xXx-inspired, mindless CGI action-fest. It cancels itself out, unfortunately.

[broadshoulder]

[I honestly believe a lot of people slag off DAD because they think it makes them look intelligent and discriminating. They feel that they [i]need[/i] a Bond film to say they dislike because they fear that, otherwise, people will take them for sad, obsessive anoraks who'll tolerate anything in the name of 007. It's as though they're saying: "See, I may love the juvenile James Bond films, but I still have some taste."

No, people slag off DAD because they genuinely think it is a bad film. Maybe somewhere deep inside it is a update of Moonraker like they wanted but Tamahori came on board and it all went to hell in a handbasket.

If you read back through this thread those who dont like it have listed their reasons ad nauseum. They have not called anyone who likes it names while you have resorted to call them "sad obcessive anoraks" the irony obviously lost on you with your posts.

People dont like DAD - they have a low opinion of it. TMWTGG is one of my favourites but I put up with people bashing it because I enjoy it. Why worry about it? Perhaps you should do the same.

[tdalton]

I honestly believe a lot of people slag off DAD because they think it makes them look intelligent and discriminating. They feel that they need a Bond film to say they dislike because they fear that, otherwise, people will take them for sad, obsessive anoraks who'll tolerate anything in the name of 007. It's as though they're saying: "See, I may love the juvenile James Bond films, but I still have some taste."

Actually, that's not the case in the slightest for me. I slag off DAD because I don't think it's a good movie. The performances are bad, the special effects are horrendous, the story is rather convoluted and implausible. There's little there to like, really, aside from the promising setup that the built up for the film in the first 15 minutes or so. After that, it was about as bad as an action film could get without being called Transformers.