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Jigsaws Lair/ Saw VII (2010)


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#1 DamnCoffee

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 12:02 AM

Thought I might as well make a thread for you Saw fans out there. Just got back from seeing Saw VI tonight and I loved it.


Saw VI

Saw VI was My first Saw movie at the cinema, and my god, it was BRILLIANT! It started off quite boring but after the first 20 minutes, when the 'game began', if you like, I couldn't take my eyes off it. I can truly say that the SAW franchise is back on track. Brilliant performances all round, it's brilliant to see Amanda again, Hoffman is truly sadistic, and Tobin Bell is AMAZING as Jigsaw.

The Saw theme at the end gave me goosebumps, the build up was absolutely brilliant, everytime I was expecting the Saw theme to come in, it didn't and that really was a nice change.

Spoiler



Overall a fantastic movie, with great twists and turns.
Saw has definitely redeemed itself.

B)




So yeah, here's a thread for you guys to discuss one of the most complex and amazing 'horror' series of all time. I expect tdalton and Jimmybond to be in here all the time. :tdown:

#2 JimmyBond

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 04:24 AM

I'm certainly up for discussion, but I've already responded to your review in another thread. Seeing as how there are few Saw fans posting on CBn it does I don't see this thread lasting long, but I'll participate as long as other's do.

On my rewatching of the DVDs I still have part V left, but after I finished that I intended to do a little ranking of my own and provide small one sentence reviews (capsule reviews, I believe they are called).

I suppose I could get the ball rolling on a facet of the fandom that's alwasy perplexed me...what is the fascination with Dr. Gordon (Cary Elwes character from the original Saw). While he's a good character for the film he was in, I'm confounded why so many fans want to see his character return.

#3 tdalton

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 04:34 AM

I'm certainly up for discussion, but I've already responded to your review in another thread. Seeing as how there are few Saw fans posting on CBn it does I don't see this thread lasting long, but I'll participate as long as other's do.

On my rewatching of the DVDs I still have part V left, but after I finished that I intended to do a little ranking of my own and provide small one sentence reviews (capsule reviews, I believe they are called).

I suppose I could get the ball rolling on a facet of the fandom that's alwasy perplexed me...what is the fascination with Dr. Gordon (Cary Elwes character from the original Saw). While he's a good character for the film he was in, I'm confounded why so many fans want to see his character return.


I honestly don't understand the desire for Dr. Gordon to return to the series either. I guess it stems from the fact that we got a resolution with Leigh Whannel's character from the first film (in both Saw II and Saw III), whereas there's been no "confirmation" of Gordon's fate (although, how could there be any doubt, really?). By that same token of logic, though, there should be a group of fans clamoring to find out what happened to Danny Glover's character, as the writers' intentions towards his character appeared just as definite as those towards Carey Elwes' character.

#4 JimmyBond

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 05:32 AM

Well in the Saw videogame Detective Tapp (Glover's character) is "rescued" by Jigsaw, nursed back to health and forced into his own personal game.

#5 tdalton

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 05:41 AM

Well in the Saw videogame Detective Tapp (Glover's character) is "rescued" by Jigsaw, nursed back to health and forced into his own personal game.


I saw that storyline for the videogame and wasn't particularly impressed by it, and while some (if not a majority) may accept it as canon, I don't.

#6 JimmyBond

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 05:48 AM

Well in the Saw videogame Detective Tapp (Glover's character) is "rescued" by Jigsaw, nursed back to health and forced into his own personal game.


I saw that storyline for the videogame and wasn't particularly impressed by it, and while some (if not a majority) may accept it as canon, I don't.


While I imagine I will play the game eventually (it sounds like it's right up my alley) I can't say I'd buy the game's plot as canon either. I think it was pretty clear in the film that Tapp died from his gunshot wound.

#7 tdalton

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 05:51 AM

Well in the Saw videogame Detective Tapp (Glover's character) is "rescued" by Jigsaw, nursed back to health and forced into his own personal game.


I saw that storyline for the videogame and wasn't particularly impressed by it, and while some (if not a majority) may accept it as canon, I don't.


While I imagine I will play the game eventually (it sounds like it's right up my alley) I can't say I'd buy the game's plot as canon either. I think it was pretty clear in the film that Tapp died from his gunshot wound.


Agreed. I thought that it was absolutely clear, although I also thought that Dr. Gordon's fate was also crystal clear as well, but many would argue the opposite. At least it doesn't appear as though either character will be making appearances in the films at this point, now that the series is more or less at a conclusion.

#8 JimmyBond

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 08:13 AM

Agreed. I thought that it was absolutely clear, although I also thought that Dr. Gordon's fate was also crystal clear as well, but many would argue the opposite. At least it doesn't appear as though either character will be making appearances in the films at this point, now that the series is more or less at a conclusion.


Let's not kid ourselves though, we both know Saw VII is a given at this point. The lower than usual gross of Saw VI (lower than they expected I imagine, but still a profitable film) might put future sequels in question, but Saw VII will be made.

I posted this over in the movie thread but since this thread is more or less devoted to Saw I thought I'd go ahead and put it up here as well:

With Saw IV still fresh in my mind from watching it this afternoon, I decided to finish watching my DVDs with Saw V.

Strange that after having a year to mull it over I still cannot completely relate my feelings on this film. On one hand the film does have some really good parts, namely the flashback sequences showing how Hoffman became aquainted with Jigsaw and helped him set up many of the traps from the first three films. Though these sequences are few and far between, and what we're ultimately left with is the game, which in itself is entertaining, but it's connection to the overall story is never really made clear (dialogue was cut that would have explained it's overall importance...dialogue that was ultimately restored for Saw VI).

That's about it though, unlike fellow poster tdalton, I find the direction pretty subpar, even for a Saw film. Darren Lynn Bousman is sorely missed and David Hackl never quite (pardon the pun) cuts it. Aside from the final ten minutes of the film, which ranks up there with the best of the Saw finales, this film never really gets going and ultimately presents us with more questions while never really answering any. As one fan put it (and I quite agree with) this film is mostly filler, merely getting us from Saw IV to VI, and VI does a great job of wrapping things up...but then again this isnt a review of that film.


And with that, I now will do as I promised above, and rank the series (note: the order is based on my opinion's of the films as a fan and may not necessarily reflect on how well each one is made. I'm not a professional reviewer, just a fan of the series B)).

Saw VI

Perhaps I'm placing it first because of it's newness. I don't know. What I do know is it was a really entertaining film that (unlike say, Saw V) had an interesting storyline while also wrapping up many of the series' ongoing storylines.

Saw III

Outside of Saw V, this is considered the second worst Saw film by hardcore fans of the series. Why? I have no idea. What I do know is that it's a really entertaining film that further explores the relationship between Jigsaw and Amanda Young, and showcases a very interesting game being played out where a depressed father must face the people responsible for his son's accidental death.

Saw

The one that started it all. A slick thriller made on an extremely low budget and introduces one of the most iconic (and one of my favorite) location...the bathroom. Why they havent returned to this location after three films is beyond me. But when they do decide to finally end this series I hope we get to return to where it all started.

Saw IV

When I first heard that new writer's were taking over the series I was a little worried. My fears were mostly unfounded though as the film does have an interesting story. It's nice to be able to delve into John Kramer's past and I found those scenes the most compelling. But what really seals the deal for me is the revelation that Detective Hoffman is the second Jigsaw accomplish. And if that werent enough finding out this film plays out concurrently with the third film really played with my mind afterwards.

Saw II

As I said in the other thread, a typical sequel, with all the conventions one would expect from a sequel. More of what worked, and a bigger cast of characters all waiting to be killed. My favorite scenes are those between Jigsaw and Detective Matthews. Though the scenes of the game are great as well, especially near the end when they enter that iconic bathroom I love so much.

Saw V

Since I just posted my review above, I won't go into much here. Except to say I don't really believe this film has a lot going for it.

#9 Safari Suit

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 08:45 AM

Costas Mandylor is the best thing about these films now (I just watched Stealth Fighter to see him in something else), and Hoffman is a lot cooler and more interesting than that disingenuous windbag Jigsaw!

If you like the Saw films, check out the Cube series.

#10 tdalton

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 09:29 AM

Costas Mandylor is the best thing about these films now (I just watched Stealth Fighter to see him in something else), and Hoffman is a lot cooler and more interesting than that disingenuous windbag Jigsaw!

If you like the Saw films, check out the Cube series.


Agreed. The only reason that I was even willing to see any of the films after Saw III was Costas Mandylor. He and Scott Patterson have been the only real highlights for the series post-Saw II.

Anyway, my rankings of the films:

Saw
Saw II
Saw V
Saw IV

[large gap]

Saw III

#11 DamnCoffee

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 11:08 AM

Interesting, I find Saw III the best of the sequels, personally.

Anyway, as for my rankings..

Saw, Saw III, Saw VI, Saw V, Saw II, Saw IV.


If anyone's interested, I made this a while ago. I think I might remake it, actually.

Casino Royale - Saw Twist Ending.


#12 DamnCoffee

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 03:49 PM

Here's a rescore I threw together for the Saw IV Ending. Just used some tracks from Saw III and VI, and a cool remix I found online.

Enjoy, warning some bad language.



#13 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 10:15 PM

I've just realized something: In Saw, Paul and Mark were shown as Jigsaw's first victims, right? Amanda might have come before them, but it was seemingly shown as taking place some time after. Gordon's penlight was also recovered at Mark's game site.

Now, in Saw V, Seth's murder by Hoffman (as seen at the beginning of the film) is meant to be a copycat of Jigsaw... yet, we later see Hoffman helping Jigsaw kidnap Paul and planting Gordon's penlight at the other crime scene. If they, along with Cecil and Amanda, were Jigsaw's first victims, how could Hoffman have copycatted Jigsaw with Seth earlier on and be helping him now?

#14 Gabe Vieira

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 05:53 AM

... yeah. For me Saw embodies everything that is wrong with Hollywood. The first film was brilliant, I say it's better than the Six Sense. It was made on a shoe-string budget, filmed in like 20-some days by two unknows, was clever, original, and was a huge hit. Then Hollywood jumped on it, milked all the money they could out of it with 5 sequels (two more to come), a video game, and comics. The films are mind-blowingly predictable, and the creativity went downhill, but no one cares. It makes money. Or it did. The new one only made 15 million first weekend, the worst of the sequels and I think the first one too. Worst of all, people think these films are horror films. Four words, Lars von Trier's Antichrist. Comcast has it On Demand for like seven bucks. Watch it at three in the morning. B) ing amazing.

#15 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 06:44 AM

... yeah. For me Saw embodies everything that is wrong with Hollywood. The first film was brilliant, I say it's better than the Six Sense. It was made on a shoe-string budget, filmed in like 20-some days by two unknows, was clever, original, and was a huge hit. Then Hollywood jumped on it, milked all the money they could out of it with 5 sequels (two more to come), a video game, and comics. The films are mind-blowingly predictable, and the creativity went downhill, but no one cares. It makes money. Or it did. The new one only made 15 million first weekend, the worst of the sequels and I think the first one too. Worst of all, people think these films are horror films. Four words, Lars von Trier's Antichrist. Comcast has it On Demand for like seven bucks. Watch it at three in the morning. :tdown: ing amazing.

...a-a-and you still didn't answer my question. Reeeally helpful response, there, Gabe. What a chap. B)

#16 tdalton

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 07:03 AM

... yeah. For me Saw embodies everything that is wrong with Hollywood. The first film was brilliant, I say it's better than the Six Sense. It was made on a shoe-string budget, filmed in like 20-some days by two unknows, was clever, original, and was a huge hit. Then Hollywood jumped on it, milked all the money they could out of it with 5 sequels (two more to come), a video game, and comics. The films are mind-blowingly predictable, and the creativity went downhill, but no one cares. It makes money. Or it did. The new one only made 15 million first weekend, the worst of the sequels and I think the first one too. Worst of all, people think these films are horror films. Four words, Lars von Trier's Antichrist. Comcast has it On Demand for like seven bucks. Watch it at three in the morning. B) ing amazing.


With the exception of the box office totals and the discussion of the horror genre, I think that one could (sadly) say the exact same thing about the Bond franchise.

#17 Safari Suit

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 09:22 AM

Are these films really representitive of Hollywood for better or worse? As I understand it they are produced by an independent company for relatively tiny budgets.

I will check out Antichrist when it hits UK DVD (rental) though. More because I've developed a wierd fascination with controversial films than because I think it will be a great horror movie.

#18 JimmyBond

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 10:38 AM

I've just realized something: In Saw, Paul and Mark were shown as Jigsaw's first victims, right? Amanda might have come before them, but it was seemingly shown as taking place some time after. Gordon's penlight was also recovered at Mark's game site.

Now, in Saw V, Seth's murder by Hoffman (as seen at the beginning of the film) is meant to be a copycat of Jigsaw... yet, we later see Hoffman helping Jigsaw kidnap Paul and planting Gordon's penlight at the other crime scene. If they, along with Cecil and Amanda, were Jigsaw's first victims, how could Hoffman have copycatted Jigsaw with Seth earlier on and be helping him now?


I don't think those two were necessarily his first victims. Definately not Paul, because it's implied during the investigation that they already know about Jigsaw. I'm assuming Mark is the kid who has to use candle light to reveal the combination to his lock right? If anything Amanda might have been the first victim, but even than I think Jigsaw had been known for a while before the events of Saw take place.

I mean, Dr. Gordon knew enough about him to give a detailed backstory to Adam during their time in the bathroom.

#19 Safari Suit

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 07:42 PM

You might not have to worry about these much longer Gabe. Saw VI has made $23million in 10 days compared to Saw V's $45million in the same period. It's going to be lucky to tail off with $30million. Even given their low budgets, I can't really imagine Lionsgate or Twisted Pictures or whoever aren't going to want to stick a fork in the franchise. Mind you Elm Street 5 made less than half of Elm Street 4 and there was still a sixth film; a 3-D spectacular no less... but that was in a different era. Hopefully, though, if they leave it they'll decide to truly leave it and we wont see Saw VII (probably given some BS title like Saw: Legacy) hit DTV along with Hostel Part III B)

#20 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 07:52 PM

I just want to see a freaking conclusion, already! They leave it open-ended every time... B)

#21 DamnCoffee

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 09:08 PM

This may surprise you, but that's what a continuing story arc does. That's the whole point of the Saw movies.

Plus, I reckon this series will be heading direct-to-DVD, for some reason.

#22 JimmyBond

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 10:54 PM

You might not have to worry about these much longer Gabe. Saw VI has made $23million in 10 days compared to Saw V's $45million in the same period. It's going to be lucky to tail off with $30million. Even given their low budgets, I can't really imagine Lionsgate or Twisted Pictures or whoever aren't going to want to stick a fork in the franchise. Mind you Elm Street 5 made less than half of Elm Street 4 and there was still a sixth film; a 3-D spectacular no less... but that was in a different era. Hopefully, though, if they leave it they'll decide to truly leave it and we wont see Saw VII (probably given some BS title like Saw: Legacy) hit DTV along with Hostel Part III B)



I still believe we'll see a Saw VII hit theaters next year. Saw VI has still made a profit. If anything Saw VII will abandon the 3D gimmick and get made with a lower budget. If the gross of Saw VI has done anything it has put Saw VIII in doubt.

Of course I could be wrong, time will tell.

#23 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 11:04 PM

Plus, I reckon this series will be heading direct-to-DVD, for some reason.

Really? I thought you loved Saw!

#24 DamnCoffee

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 11:10 PM

I do love Saw, but I just feel that the series will end up with a direct to DVD release. B)

#25 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 11:45 PM

That would be sad, wouldn't it?

#26 Safari Suit

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 09:07 AM

Although it would be an oddly fitting way to go out, as the original Saw very nearly went DTV itself.

Of course not all DTV films (or sequels) are bad; just an awful lot of them. I suppose, in theory, Saw going DTV might not make that much difference given that the films are low budget anyway and Tobin "Boogeyman 2" Bell and Costas Mandylor would be unlikely to turn them down. Still, it's not something I particularly want to see.

#27 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 03:11 AM

Guys, I think you'll enjoy this link, but be warned; for full disclosure, spoilers below: http://www.toronto.c...currentlist.pdf B)

Spoiler


#28 JimmyBond

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 03:29 AM

I was never big on that character returning. It'd be interesting to see how they bring him back into the fold...but if they're planning what I think they're planning I think it will feel like a big cheat.

#29 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 11:00 PM

Really? Nobody? I was expecting Mharkin and tdalton to jump on this thread, at least... B)

#30 JimmyBond

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 03:33 AM

Did you miss my post? Or did you want me to discuss it in more detail?

Anyways, what I was saying is:

Spoiler


So far I've been on board for every twist they've presented to us in the series, but if they go with what I wrote in the spoiler tags, my opinion of the series will sink pretty low...but I won't hate it.