112 replies to this topic

[krypt]

"That doesn't mean Bond should lower his standards to suit a modern audience. Bond should be Bond, not capitulate to the often misguided fads of today."

...

Or yesterday? Like Roger Moore's bell-bottom flares in the '70s? ... Those were horrid.

[Messervy]

No, I'm referring to what he wears in Siena, MI6 HQ and La Paz. Too tight around the waist, and loose around the shoulders. It just looks daft.

I hate to be negative toward you Shark, but I don't really think you will be happy unless they remade Thunderball with the exact same score, wardrobe, action scenes etc. Even then you would find something to complain about. I agree that the 60's Bond movies are the best, but we are not in the 60s anymore.

That doesn't mean Bond should lower his standards to suit a modern audience.

Bond should be Bond, not capitulate to the often misguided fads of today.

Yes, but you can get modern stylish clothing, it's not incompatible. For instance, the suits Dalton wears in TLD are a good example of a timeless style turned modern (see the scene in countryside MI6 Blayden House). Granted, it was end-80's-modern, so not really what we today would fancy, but nonetheless it worked quite well.

As far as nowadays Bond is concerned, I'd love to see Dunhill or Lanvin, yet I consider that Tom Ford suits worked fine in QoS.

[Robinson]

I do like the casual attire Craig was wearing in the QoS Haiti sequence - especially when he added the jacket. [Much better than the outfit in the CR Miami sequence]. And I love the tux he lifted from the dressing room in the QoS opera sequence.

This.

I thought the casual clothing worked yet provided a sense of luxury/style. The Everyman could re-create that look with clothing from Club Monaco, Banana Republic and a pair of Clarks but you can see the high quality and cut of Tom Ford on the big screen in QOS.

As for the suits, I think you will always see fashion trends in Bond films that are relevant to the decade in which they appear. That being said Bond's business attire was/is contemporary-yet-conservative. Moore may have had wide-legged trousers but the costumers never succumbed to floral shirt and striped tie combos of the day. Craig's Tom Ford look is cool without being foppish or wispy- like the models that wear Ford's clothing in various fashion spreads.

[double o ego]

Sounds to me there are quite a few out of shape people here. Tom Ford's suits are cut slim and the jackets have a slightly open chest, it makes for a nice, defined figure and Bond looked great in them.

[MkB]

Moore may have had wide-legged trousers but the costumers never succumbed to floral shirt

Yep, we've had to wait until CR for that...

As for my choice: wetsuit! It's about time we have cool underwater scenes.

[Chief of SIS]

Sounds to me there are quite a few out of shape people here. Tom Ford's suits are cut slim and the jackets have a slightly open chest, it makes for a nice, defined figure and Bond looked great in them.

I was thinking the same thing. I didn't know people found the slim fit unflattering. It's how I prefer my suits. They're nice to show off a build instead of concealing it. I think Tom Ford is much more flattering on Craig in QoS than any of the suits in CR. They're more flattering in general. Just my opinion.

[double o ego]

Sounds to me there are quite a few out of shape people here. Tom Ford's suits are cut slim and the jackets have a slightly open chest, it makes for a nice, defined figure and Bond looked great in them.

I was thinking the same thing. I didn't know people found the slim fit unflattering. It's how I prefer my suits. They're nice to show off a build instead of concealing it. I think Tom Ford is much more flattering on Craig in QoS than any of the suits in CR. They're more flattering in general. Just my opinion.

Brother, we are singing from the same hymn sheet.

[jaguar007]

Moore may have had wide-legged trousers but the costumers never succumbed to floral shirt

Yep, we've had to wait until CR for that...

Actually DAD. Bond wore a floral shirt in Cuba, it was just dark blue flowers on a dark blue shirt so it does not stand out as much.

[MkB]

Moore may have had wide-legged trousers but the costumers never succumbed to floral shirt

Yep, we've had to wait until CR for that...

Actually DAD. Bond wore a floral shirt in Cuba, it was just dark blue flowers on a dark blue shirt so it does not stand out as much.

Oh, no, no, NO Jaguar! You've just ruined the 10 years of psychoanalysis I had to delete this image from my memory...

[The Shark]

Sounds to me there are quite a few out of shape people here. Tom Ford's suits are cut slim and the jackets have a slightly open chest, it makes for a nice, defined figure and Bond looked great in them.

Why?

Connery certainly wasn't out of shape in DR. NO FROM and RUSSIA WITH LOVE, where the suits he wore were entirely close chested, loose fitting (especially around the waist), 2 buttoned suites - Rather like the loose fitting Brioni suits Craig wore in CASINO ROYALE. Showing off one's build isn't for suits.

Why do I prefer them? Because they make their wearer look more physically imposing, relaxed, and powerful. Unfortunately in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, Craig's exercise routine was more cardio-centric, causing him to loose a hell of a lot of muscle (from lack of weight training) and fat (from exercise) - Making him look relatively thin, scrawny and unimposing. The suits he wore further accentuated this, due to their tight fitting cuts, with Craig resembling a worn out ragdoll after the action sequences.

When Bond arrives in La Paz, it looks like a strong wind could blow him over. Not good for the world's ultimate super spy. Due to already being too short and small framed for the part, Craig needs the added muscle weight to counter that natural handicap.

[Harmsway]

I think you're overstating your case a bit, Sharkie. Craig looks more imposing in CASINO ROYALE than in QUANTUM OF SOLACE for a variety of reasons, but at no point in QUANTUM OF SOLACE does he resemble a "worn out ragdoll."

[The Shark]

I think you're overstating your case a bit, Sharkie. Craig looks more imposing in CASINO ROYALE than in QUANTUM OF SOLACE for a variety of reasons, but at no point in QUANTUM OF SOLACE does he resemble a "worn out ragdoll."

These were the scenes I was thinking of.

http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1644.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1670.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1615.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1309.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_0247.htm

[Chief of SIS]

I think you're overstating your case a bit, Sharkie. Craig looks more imposing in CASINO ROYALE than in QUANTUM OF SOLACE for a variety of reasons, but at no point in QUANTUM OF SOLACE does he resemble a "worn out ragdoll."

These were the scenes I was thinking of.

http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1644.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1670.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1615.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1309.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_0247.htm

I am starting to see your point Shark. However, I think there is a fine line between thug and spy that Bond has to walk. In CR he leans towards that thug side. Where he is physically imposing but almost to the point where he looks a little ridiculous for a spy. Less agile, too bulky. Too thugish for sophistication. While I think he looks much leaner in QoS, he by no means is not physically imposing. I actually find him more imposing because of his clothing. His clothes are fit and slender. He looks sharp. He looks formidable. He looks more like a spy. In the terms of comparing it with Connery, I think it's a little unfair. Two way different body types for their roles and the clothing has to reflect that. QoS gets the suits right for Craig.

[The Shark]

I think you're overstating your case a bit, Sharkie. Craig looks more imposing in CASINO ROYALE than in QUANTUM OF SOLACE for a variety of reasons, but at no point in QUANTUM OF SOLACE does he resemble a "worn out ragdoll."

These were the scenes I was thinking of.

http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1644.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1670.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1615.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1309.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_0247.htm

I am starting to see your point Shark. However, I think there is a fine line between thug and spy that Bond has to walk. In CR he leans towards that thug side. Where he is physically imposing but almost to the point where he looks a little ridiculous for a spy. Less agile, too bulky. Too thugish for sophistication. While I think he looks much leaner in QoS, he by no means is not physically imposing. I actually find him more imposing because of his clothing. His clothes are fit and slender. He looks sharp. He looks formidable. He looks more like a spy. In the terms of comparing it with Connery, I think it's a little unfair. Two way different body types for their roles and the clothing has to reflect that. QoS gets the suits right for Craig.

He definitely looks sharp and agile, but not physically strong - Which is a trait that Connery, Lazenby and even Moore all had. And that has a lot to do with Craig's smaller frame and bone structure, which tends to correlate with height. I just don't feel threatened by him with the slim build he had for the '05 press announcement or QOS, only in CASINO ROYALE. Which he wore casual apparel in that film he did look thuggish, but not in any of the suits.

I hope as Craig's Bond matures, and the less ridiculous Sonic the Hedgehog action set-pieces Craig has to go through - He'll look more Bondian - For me that is, less defined, with more muscle mass. The cloths should reflect that.

[jaguar007]

I have argued in the past with Shark about Craig and his clothes in the past, but I watched part of QoS the other night and I did notice that the suit he wore (slimmer fitting) did tend to make his head look bigger than the rest of his body.

[The Shark]

I have argued in the past with Shark about Craig and his clothes in the past, but I watched part of QoS the other night and I did notice that the suit he wore (slimmer fitting) did tend to make his head look bigger than the rest of his body.

Thank you for seeing the light. Shark's donations are in the mail.

And yes, the slim cloths do make his body look disproportionally small, or his head excessively large, which ever way round you prefer. And that's my problem with tight fitting suits in general.

In that respect it make Craig's Bond look like a school boy wearing the wrong size uniform. Which again, isn't the right look for Bond if we're expected to take him seriously.

[double o ego]

Sounds to me there are quite a few out of shape people here. Tom Ford's suits are cut slim and the jackets have a slightly open chest, it makes for a nice, defined figure and Bond looked great in them.

Why?

Connery certainly wasn't out of shape in DR. NO FROM and RUSSIA WITH LOVE, where the suits he wore were entirely close chested, loose fitting (especially around the waist), 2 buttoned suites - Rather like the loose fitting Brioni suits Craig wore in CASINO ROYALE. Showing off one's build isn't for suits.

Why do I prefer them? Because they make their wearer look more physically imposing, relaxed, and powerful. Unfortunately in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, Craig's exercise routine was more cardio-centric, causing him to loose a hell of a lot of muscle (from lack of weight training) and fat (from exercise) - Making him look relatively thin, scrawny and unimposing. The suits he wore further accentuated this, due to their tight fitting cuts, with Craig resembling a worn out ragdoll after the action sequences.

When Bond arrives in La Paz, it looks like a strong wind could blow him over. Not good for the world's ultimate super spy. Due to already being too short and small framed for the part, Craig needs the added muscle weight to counter that natural handicap.

Conery's suits were fine, they're tailored from a classic standpoint and given his build it worked just very well. The scene in Dr.No where we see Bond in a tux at the casino and later when M berates him about using his beretta, Connery looks excellent. The suits he wore in FRWL are damn near perfect and purely down to good tailoring that compliments Connery's physique.

Craig on the other hand looks perfect in his fitted suits and in QoS loks far more physically imposing than Moore, Dalton and especially Brosnan. Sure, his size is different from that of CR but it's not a radical difference, Craig simply is more stream-lined but has better definition. He wears the suits extremely well and looks more than capable of handling himself as he has clearly already demonstrated.

I think you're overstating your case a bit, Sharkie. Craig looks more imposing in CASINO ROYALE than in QUANTUM OF SOLACE for a variety of reasons, but at no point in QUANTUM OF SOLACE does he resemble a "worn out ragdoll."

These were the scenes I was thinking of.

http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1644.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1670.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1615.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_1309.htm
http://screenmusings...es/QoS_0247.htm

All these pics do is emphasis how in great shape he is and even though the majority of the pics show him looking worn, well it's because he's been through hell. I fail to see how these pics make him look unintimidating.

[The Shark]

He looks too thin. Look how scrawny his arms are in that frame where he pulls the gun from his belt. He's well suited to extreme cardio-vascular activity (i.e. running across roof tops), but doesn't look anywhere near strong enough to pull a decent punch.

We don't need a wiry Bond.

[double o ego]

Craig isn't scrawny though as evidenced in QoS at the hotel with Fields. Craig's size imo is convincing enough to convey he can handle himself.

[The Shark]

http://i.dailymail.c...8x253_popup.jpg

His arm looks the same size as Gemma's, and once again, his body looks too small relative to his head.

[Chief of SIS]

Maybe Gemma is just ripped.

[byline]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/20/article-1047269-01CBB24400000578-517_468x253_popup.jpg

His arm looks the same size as Gemma's, and once again, his body looks too small relative to his head.

If you look at how Gemma's arm is positioned, it's pressing against the side of her ribcage, which means that it's going to flatten out the tissue somewhat. I'd be willing to bet that if she and Daniel had their arms positioned side by side in exactly the same way, hers would appear much slimmer than his.

[jaguar007]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/20/article-1047269-01CBB24400000578-517_468x253_popup.jpg

His arm looks the same size as Gemma's, and once again, his body looks too small relative to his head.

Sorry, but his arm in your pic is not any smaller than Connery's in his prime

http://images.starpu...th-Love-m05.jpg

[Germanlady]

http://i.dailymail.c...8x253_popup.jpg

His arm looks the same size as Gemma's, and once again, his body looks too small relative to his head.

Sorry, but his arm in your pic is not any smaller than Connery's in his prime

http://images.starpu...th-Love-m05.jpg

Actually - as he said himself - he was much fitter in QOS then in CR.
Somehow I hate to bring up this pic again, but this is more convincing then all your words, that he was just fine.

AND in a suit - the stance, the look, the elegance - all as bondish as it gets, no? He doesn't NEED to be hulk, to be pure Bond.

[The Shark]

http://i.dailymail.c...8x253_popup.jpg

His arm looks the same size as Gemma's, and once again, his body looks too small relative to his head.

Sorry, but his arm in your pic is not any smaller than Connery's in his prime

http://images.starpu...th-Love-m05.jpg

Actually - as he said himself - he was much fitter in QOS then in CR.
Somehow I hate to bring up this pic again, but this is more convincing then all your words, that he was just fine.

AND in a suit - the stance, the look, the elegance - all as bondish as it gets, no? He doesn't NEED to be hulk, to be pure Bond.

His arms look far though too thin in that photo at the top. In the bottom one he looks old, pallid and shrilled.

He may have been more fit in terms of cardiovascular capacity, but in CR he was far stronger - which is what Bond needs. Not a lightning fast athlete, but someone who can handle himself in a brawl. Like Connery.

[Germanlady]

His arms look far though too thin in that photo at the top. In the bottom one he looks old, pallid and shrilled.

He may have been more fit in terms of cardiovascular capacity, but in CR he was far stronger - which is what Bond needs. Not a lightning fast athlete, but someone who can handle himself in a brawl. Like Connery.

OK, have your way, but I don't see many agreeing with you. Just wanting him to look stronger is your good right, but in calling him someone, who looks, like he couldn't take care of himself in a fight, you have marked yourself as just wanting to rant and not have a fair discussion.

Connery IMO just had the advantage of a broad built - shoulders - but when I look at his arms or at him as a whole, I always found it strange to point at him as the epitome of a muscular body, because he doesn't have one. Nice but no more...even DC's QOS body is much more defined - his build is just totally different.

Edited by Germanlady, 05 November 2010 - 09:28 AM.

[Jim]

http://i.dailymail.c...8x253_popup.jpg

His arm looks the same size as Gemma's, and once again, his body looks too small relative to his head.

Sorry, but his arm in your pic is not any smaller than Connery's in his prime

http://images.starpu...th-Love-m05.jpg

Actually - as he said himself - he was much fitter in QOS then in CR.
Somehow I hate to bring up this pic again, but this is more convincing then all your words, that he was just fine.

AND in a suit - the stance, the look, the elegance - all as bondish as it gets, no? He doesn't NEED to be hulk, to be pure Bond.

I find my thin veneer of heterosexuality to be on the slide once more. Phwoaar.

I wouldn't mind arms that "thin".

[Robinson]

His arms look far though too thin in that photo at the top. In the bottom one he looks old, pallid and shrilled.

He may have been more fit in terms of cardiovascular capacity, but in CR he was far stronger - which is what Bond needs. Not a lightning fast athlete, but someone who can handle himself in a brawl. Like Connery.

You're confusing muscle size with actual strength. You take a look at bodybuilders who are 220-230lbs (16 stone), they're not very mobile or flexible- they simply lift heavy weights repeatedly. Boxers who are 150lbs (Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Meyweather, etc.) have considerable power when they punch and most times, they're not "winding up." Their punches often start with a twist of the waist. Yes they lift weights, but the amount out weight training deals directly with stamina and explosive power.

I know the perceived body image for Bond has been raised by by other Hollywood films (especially "300") but seriously, Bond is a spy who's supposed to blend in with the general public. How big does he really need to be?

[The Shark]

His arms look far though too thin in that photo at the top. In the bottom one he looks old, pallid and shrilled.

He may have been more fit in terms of cardiovascular capacity, but in CR he was far stronger - which is what Bond needs. Not a lightning fast athlete, but someone who can handle himself in a brawl. Like Connery.

You're confusing muscle size with actual strength. You take a look at bodybuilders who are 220-230lbs (16 stone), they're not very mobile or flexible- they simply lift heavy weights repeatedly. Boxers who are 150lbs (Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Meyweather, etc.) have considerable power when they punch and most times, they're not "winding up." Their punches often start with a twist of the waist. Yes they lift weights, but the amount out weight training deals directly with stamina and explosive power.

I know the perceived body image for Bond has been raised by by other Hollywood films (especially "300") but seriously, Bond is a spy who's supposed to blend in with the general public. How big does he really need to be?

As big as Sean Connery and Roger Moore, which is closer to Craig's build in CR than in QOS.

[Germanlady]

His arms look far though too thin in that photo at the top. In the bottom one he looks old, pallid and shrilled.

He may have been more fit in terms of cardiovascular capacity, but in CR he was far stronger - which is what Bond needs. Not a lightning fast athlete, but someone who can handle himself in a brawl. Like Connery.

You're confusing muscle size with actual strength. You take a look at bodybuilders who are 220-230lbs (16 stone), they're not very mobile or flexible- they simply lift heavy weights repeatedly. Boxers who are 150lbs (Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Meyweather, etc.) have considerable power when they punch and most times, they're not "winding up." Their punches often start with a twist of the waist. Yes they lift weights, but the amount out weight training deals directly with stamina and explosive power.

I know the perceived body image for Bond has been raised by by other Hollywood films (especially "300") but seriously, Bond is a spy who's supposed to blend in with the general public. How big does he really need to be?

As big as Sean Connery and Roger Moore, which is closer to Craig's build in CR than in QOS.

Its really funny, as Roger never had any muscle.