158 replies to this topic

[double o ego]

I like Brosnan, when watching his films I always got the impression that as Bond he genuinely loved doing what he does. There are a few things about him that irk me though but one thing I can't decide on is, if he was truly manly. That's not to say he didn't do cool things but I think maybe if he was manlier he may be higher up on my rankings list. Thoughts?

[Righty007]

Pierce Brosnan's Bond could kick my and I consider myself manly.

[pgram]

[Tybre]

BrozBond could probably kick my in a fight, but I'm bloody well useless without some degree of armament, preferably polearms. Manly though...? Eh, he's a bit...met isn't he?

[00Twelve]

I mean, the guy winced and grimaced a lot and got quite sappy in TWINE, but did he beat up guys? Did he bed the girl(s)? Of course.

Yes, he was manly. Rest easy. Have there been other Bonds who seemed moreso? Yes.

[danslittlefinger]

I think he had an edge yes. It wasn't as hard as Craig's but Brozzer could get a certain "hard as flint" look in his eye once in awhile.
Very cold.

The grimacing and high pumping action when he ran, supercedes any of those moments in my memory though.

[double o ego]

I dunno. Sure, he wasn't a wimp or anything but I just seem to recall him getting beat up far too often and then there's that rather embarassing scene when Bond meets Zukofsky in GE and we have Bond a mere inches from crying for his life.

[Righty007]

I mean, the guy winced and grimaced a lot and got quite sappy in TWINE, but did he beat up guys? Did he bed the girl(s)? Of course.

Yes, he was manly. Rest easy. Have there been other Bonds who seemed moreso? Yes.

I liked the winces and grimaces because it was good acting. Bond is human so we should see his pain in his expressions.

[Judo chop]

I liked the winces and grimaces because it was good acting. Bond is human so we should see his pain in his expressions.

As opposed to being pained by his expressions?

I come to rain on the little parade of hope that’s begun to form here...

No. He wasn’t manly. He wasn't tough or threatening. He wasn't macho or magnetic. In fact, he was much better at childish.

[Eric Stromberg]

Brosnan was masculine enough for me but really lacked physicality in the role. He could do cold and ruthless, but no so much tough or threatening.

When Daniel Craig smashed through that wall like a tank during the initial footchase in CR, it was obvious that a new Bond was in town.

[WhatMeWorry?]

I think that Pierce was the perfect amount of manliness. He had his tough butt-kicking side and his stylish, crisp, suave side. I also think that Daniel Craig is almost too manly for Bond.

[sharpshooter]

I also think that Daniel Craig is almost too manly for Bond.

Rubbish. Surely you jest?

[jaguar007]

Don't get me wrong, I like Pierce (I was a fan of Remington Stelle), but not as Bond. The main problem I have with him as Bond is is lack of manliness. Place the guy next to Sean Connery and he looks like he should be prancing in a tutu at a pride parade.

[danslittlefinger]

I also think that Daniel Craig is almost too manly for Bond.

Rubbish. Surely you jest?

This is getting too uncomfortable for me to discuss further.

[00Twelve]

I mean, the guy winced and grimaced a lot and got quite sappy in TWINE, but did he beat up guys? Did he bed the girl(s)? Of course.

Yes, he was manly. Rest easy. Have there been other Bonds who seemed moreso? Yes.

I liked the winces and grimaces because it was good acting. Bond is human so we should see his pain in his expressions.

It was telegraphing. That's a theatre term meaning that he was demonstrating his hurt or his grief by making it painfully obvious so that not even the dirtiest of the unwashed masses would miss it. It was "Look how much this HURTS!! Can't you tell this HURTS?!?!" It was all the time. Contrast that with, say, Craig, who adds another layer to the performance by holding the grimaces back. You can still tell he's in pain, but you can also tell he's trying damn hard to control his reactions, which is what we all do in real life. I certainly know I try to downplay pain, whether physical or emotional, because I don't want people to see me as weak. Which is exactly why this thread even exists-- because Brosnan's telegraphing makes him look weaker and thus makes some folks question his manliness in comparison with the other actors.

It's one thing to be human; it's another to say, "Look, I'm being HUMAN here!! See?!?! Look how human Bond is!!"

In short, no, it's not good acting IMO, not that I'm rigorously qualified to make that statement.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I dunno. Sure, he wasn't a wimp or anything but I just seem to recall him getting beat up far too often and then there's that rather embarassing scene when Bond meets Zukofsky in GE and we have Bond a mere inches from crying for his life.

Connery was getting beaten up all the time too. See the Grant fight, the Oddjob fight, the Bouvard fight, the Hans fight, the Lippe fight in Never Say Never Again. Moore did too with the Tee-Hee fight, the Jaws fight on the train in The Spy Who Loved Me, and the Kriegler fight. It goes with the Bond territory--you encounter tough, dangerous villains and get in a fight with them, you're going to get beaten up occasionally. It's all in a day's work for Queen and Country (and it makes the adventures more exciting).

The idea of Brosnan not being "manly enough" is ludicrous. He's James Bond and Bond is manly. Brosnan was suave, got the gadgets, drove the cars, got the women, and defeated the bad guys in a variety of ways--all with style, wit, toughness, and physicality. Of course he's manly enough. Just look at the Trevelyan fight (one of the best fights of the series I might add), the way he takes out Stamper's men in the sound-proofed room, the way he deals with Kaufman, the fight in Lachaise's office, the killing of Elektra, the sword fight with Graves, and the way he enters the Hong Kong hotel in Die Another Day. I'll take Brosnan's Bond any day.

[Santa]

He's not my idea of manly. Seems to me he'd have been great in Dynasty rather than Bond.

[Dell Deaton]

Unquestionably "manly," by every "Bond Brand" standard we've come to know.

• Think "sound-proof room" fight in Tomorrow Never Dies
• Think of him in bed with Elektra King in The World Is Not Enough

In my opinion, he probably remains the best blend of the original vision of Ian Fleming and the movie-Bond of EON Productions.

Have some actors been apparently tougher? Sure. But as great as True Lies was, Ah-nold proved that he was no James Bond; so that's not a criteria I'd use.

Edited by Dell Deaton, 19 September 2009 - 12:26 PM.

[Aris007]

Brosan is my favourite Bond, but he's not that "man" as Connery! I've got to be honest! His fight scenes are preety cool and intense and Bond-like, but when I put him in the stairwell fight instead of Craig and in the bathroom scene afterwards...hmmm.....no! He'd look ridicullous!

Genrally there are two types of Bonds.

• Connery-Craig: Manly, threating, macho, semi-cool!
• Brosnan-Moore: Stylish, marvellous sense of humour, semi-good fight scenes, seriously suave.

Considering this Brosnan was as manly as Moore!

PS: Lazenby and Dalton belong to both categories!

[Safari Suit]

What would Sinitta say?

[crheath]

I mean, the guy winced and grimaced a lot and got quite sappy in TWINE, but did he beat up guys? Did he bed the girl(s)? Of course.

That was my biggest problem with Brosnan, those wimpy facial expressions during the fights. When he's being strangled in the plane in TND or fighting Xenia in GE or being tortured in TWINE, he looks so embarrassing. In Raiders of the Lost Ark, half of Harrison Ford's acting was the double takes during the action and he pulled them off great. When Connery fought Robert Shaw in FRWL, his expressions were terrific.

[Tybre]

I mean, the guy winced and grimaced a lot and got quite sappy in TWINE, but did he beat up guys? Did he bed the girl(s)? Of course.

Yes, he was manly. Rest easy. Have there been other Bonds who seemed moreso? Yes.

I liked the winces and grimaces because it was good acting. Bond is human so we should see his pain in his expressions.

It was telegraphing. That's a theatre term meaning that he was demonstrating his hurt or his grief by making it painfully obvious so that not even the dirtiest of the unwashed masses would miss it. It was "Look how much this HURTS!! Can't you tell this HURTS?!?!" It was all the time. Contrast that with, say, Craig, who adds another layer to the performance by holding the grimaces back. You can still tell he's in pain, but you can also tell he's trying damn hard to control his reactions, which is what we all do in real life. I certainly know I try to downplay pain, whether physical or emotional, because I don't want people to see me as weak. Which is exactly why this thread even exists-- because Brosnan's telegraphing makes him look weaker and thus makes some folks question his manliness in comparison with the other actors.

It's one thing to be human; it's another to say, "Look, I'm being HUMAN here!! See?!?! Look how human Bond is!!"

In short, no, it's not good acting IMO, not that I'm rigorously qualified to make that statement.

Bingo! I do believe we have a winner. Jimbo, what's behind Door Number Q?

[Tarl_Cabot]

He's not my idea of manly. Seems to me he'd have been great in Dynasty rather than Bond.

I do recall John James (Jeff Colby) being touted as a possible Moore replacement circa 1985. So, there you have it. Being a Dynasty star isn't too prissy for 007!

Don't get me wrong, I like Pierce (I was a fan of Remington Stelle), but not as Bond. The main problem I have with him as Bond is is lack of manliness. Place the guy next to Sean Connery and he looks like he should be prancing in a tutu at a pride parade.

Ouch.

*pssst...Pierce, go away now! Don't read this*


well, I didn't like his casting in 1986 because I thought he was too pretty for the part and yes, not manly/macho enough...but summer of 87 I saw the film(The 4th Protocol) he did instead of 'Daylights and he was damn good-ruthless and cold but aslo slick with the ladies. My opinion of him changed. I do however have some problems with some of his acting moments when he did get the role: the sauna scene in goldeneye, the fight with Renard and "emotional" moments with Electra. Baaaaaaaaaad.

[RJJB]

Brosnan portrayed "manly" OK, but his acting style never felt genuine. In any movies in which I've seen him, he does not seem able to lose the look-at-me appearnce and body language. I never feel that he immerses himself in a role. It is amplified when he has to speak lines such as "The world is not enough" or "So you live to die another day." Granted the lines may not be the best writing, but he does not come across as the character, but instead as Brosnan trying to recite the lines. I really think he is an actor of limited range.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

In direct response to the thread's question... No, he wasn't.

Particularly, he didn't have an overall commanding tone with his voice, and in fact that's the biggest issue that I have with his performance as Bond.

[jaguar007]

Don't get me wrong, I like Pierce (I was a fan of Remington Stelle), but not as Bond. The main problem I have with him as Bond is is lack of manliness. Place the guy next to Sean Connery and he looks like he should be prancing in a tutu at a pride parade.

Ouch.

*pssst...Pierce, go away now! Don't read this*

Note I said "next to Sean Connery" of course if you look up masculinity in the dictionary, you will find a picture of Sean Connery

[Tybre]

Don't get me wrong, I like Pierce (I was a fan of Remington Stelle), but not as Bond. The main problem I have with him as Bond is is lack of manliness. Place the guy next to Sean Connery and he looks like he should be prancing in a tutu at a pride parade.

Ouch.

*pssst...Pierce, go away now! Don't read this*

Note I said "next to Sean Connery" of course if you look up masculinity in the dictionary, you will find a picture of Sean Connery

Getting kicked in the face by Daniel Craig, naturally.

[jaguar007]

It is amplified when he has to speak lines such as "The world is not enough" or "So you live to die another day." Granted the lines may not be the best writing, but he does not come across as the character, but instead as Brosnan trying to recite the lines. I really think he is an actor of limited range.

That is the difference between Brosnan and Roger Moore. Moore could make a poorly written line work.

[double o ego]

[quote name='Double-Oh Agent' post='1056829' date='19 September 2009 - 08:40'][quote name='double o ego' post='1056720' date='18 September 2009 - 13:47']I dunno. Sure, he wasn't a wimp or anything but I just seem to recall him getting beat up far too often and then there's that rather embarassing scene when Bond meets Zukofsky in GE and we have Bond a mere inches from crying for his life.[/quote]
Connery was getting beaten up all the time too. See the Grant fight, the Oddjob fight, the Bouvard fight, the Hans fight, the Lippe fight in Never Say Never Again.[/quote]

Oh come on. Connery was fighting some seriously tough guys. Brosnan up against grant or oddjob would have been butchered. At least when Connery fought these guys, he still put up an impressively agressive fight.

[quote]Moore did too with the Tee-Hee fight, the Jaws fight on the train in The Spy Who Loved Me, and the Kriegler fight. It goes with the Bond territory--you encounter tough, dangerous villains and get in a fight with them, you're going to get beaten up occasionally. It's all in a day's work for Queen and Country (and it makes the adventures more exciting).[/quote]

But again, you've listed off a name of villains Bond has gone up against that are tough adversaries by any standard. Obviously Connery and Moore aren't just going to fight these guys without getting tagged, we might as well be watching superman going all out and whipping the butts of greedy children with bad tempers waving sticks in the air.

[quote]The idea of Brosnan not being "manly enough" is ludicrous.[/quote]

But is it really? I'm sorry but compare Brosnan to Connery. Connery didn't have the luxury of looking tough as nails just because he had hidden gadgets up his sleeve all the time. Connery is the quentessential definition of what being a man was all about. Brosnan came off as a poser. There was no real agression or better yet alpha male quality to him.

[quote]He's James Bond and Bond is manly.[/quote]

Yes, James Bond is also 6ft something but Daniel Craig isn't.

[quote]Brosnan was suave, got the gadgets, drove the cars, got the women, and defeated the bad guys in a variety of ways--all with style, wit, toughness, and physicality.[/quote]

I've seen campy gay men get the better of homophobic "tough guys" but by anyone's standards they wouldn't be considered manly.

[quote]Of course he's manly enough. Just look at the Trevelyan fight (one of the best fights of the series I might add),[/quote]

This fight imo is the most overrated fight in the history of the Bond series. It was poorly choreographed, looked too staged and considering it was a personal moment of combat, it lacked authenticity. Sean Bean's performance was the only thing that gave the fight any sot of credibility.

[quote]the way he takes out Stamper's men in the sound-proofed room,[/quote]

Hardly call him tough and manly there. Stamper's men were uncoordinated idiots. Bond took advantage of this and started attacking them with nearby peripherals in a rather comedic way I might add.

[quote]the way he deals with Kaufman,[/quote]

Hardly a manly moment. It was the gadget that Kaufman electrocuted himself with that turned the tables around. All Bond did was make a tough-looking face and pull the trigger.

[quote]the fight in Lachaise's office,[/quote]

Again, the real hero being the gadget. Compare that to when Connery who was completely unarmed was at Dr.No's dinner table.

[quote]the killing of Elektra,[/quote]

Please tell me you're joking.

[quote]the sword fight with Graves,[/quote]

I'll agree this fight was manly but lets be real here, it was an excuse to show off yet another area of expertise that ond is so good at and top of that, lok at where the fight took place. Hardly a fight to the death or to be taken too seriously...with all those spectators around.

[quote]and the way he enters the Hong Kong hotel in Die Another Day. I'll take Brosnan's Bond any day./quote]

You mean the way he struts in smirking and looking like John the Baptist in wet clothes? Well, it's not like he had any other options. Every other to play Bond has walked into a hotel looking decidedly more manly and confident.

I'm not trying to knock Brosnan, I've gone on record saying how much I like him but if I'm to be honest, my opinion is, he just lacked a natural and credible manliness and he had no commanding presense. I think Brosnan gets a tough time particulalrly because of this. What ever the flaws of all the other actors, they all were at least commanding to some degree but Brosnan....*sighs*

[RJJB]

...

Edited by RJJB, 20 September 2009 - 06:48 PM.