150 replies to this topic

[bond 16.05.72]

Arnold's score for QOS was probabaly his best yet, the que used in the PTS was my favourite of his yet and I also liked the reworked version that appeared in the Desert climax.

I've never been a big fan of DA's score but CR saw him moving in a direction that I liked, having watched QOS recently I remember enjoying his score alot.

The problem is that Barry created so many toe tapping memorable cues, they had a playfulness about them, that triumphant element that Arnold was trying to avoid as it robbed the scene of the suspense.

The choice not to fire up the Bond theme until the end and subtly weaving it throughtout the score although I'm gagging to hear Craig get an action sequence with it blaring, has been a wise move.

I think once Craig's Bond gets established Arnold will let the playful element seep back in, having said that Barry was just a master of creating a mood whether it was big and bright or ominous. The music in those early entries is just sublime at times, YOLT might be a naff film but cues like Space Capsule are pure genius.

Arnold seems better at the atmospheric side but lacks when it comes to the action but QOS for my money saw him moving into a more promising area.

I'm happy to see Arnold develop and as much as I could list dream composers, let him have a crack at Bond 23 I've a feeling he's getting the hang of it now!

[The Shark]

I'm worried that he's just going to revert to his TWINE and DAD style of electronic scoring (which seems to come naturally to him) if he stays. That's all he seems to know, and unfortunately that's his "idea" on how a modern Bond sonudtrack should sound, and probably doesn't know why Barry's scores worked so well.

Like you said, his action scores are dull, tedious and derivative, to the extent where I couldn't tell you which film they came from, they all sound the same. His "atmosphere" cues (with the exception of those from QOS) are boring, with none of the harmonic texture or melodic development that Barry gave to his cues.

The only ones that I like are the Inside Man, Night at the Opera or Blunt Instrument-type cues, the "travel" tracks on each album that help set the mood at the beginning of a scene. That's where his strength lies. He's also good at short transition tracks with ethnic colouring depending on Bond's locale, however they don't last long enough.

[PotterBond007]

Anyone ever hear of BT? He composed the score for Stealth. He could be good, though he may bring in electronic stuff if we're trying to avoid that. Another composer I know is Edward Shearmur (Sky Captain, Reign of Fire) or maybe Ramin Djawadi (Iron Man). Not sure if they fit the criteria, if there is one, but I'm just giving ideas.

[Tybre]

I assume we're limited to Western composers? 'cause I can think of two Japanese composers who might be good for Bond. Might. Could go either way really.

Going back to this,

Taro Iwashiro would be my primary choice of the two. Every single one of his scores I've heard has been nothing shy of genius, and while in the case of some (Shinobi, Kenshin, Aoki) the sound is a little too stereotypically asian, for the most part his score is fairly varied and I think the man could bring some genuine talent to the score of 007, beyond that of Arnold, Conti, Hamlisch, and, well, everyone else. Some would argue Barry is better, and maybe, but honestly I'd sooner listen to one of Iwashiro's OSTs than one of Barry's. Alas most of what's readily available online is the highly Asian-sounding score, which okay, sure, could work if we ever do get a Bond film filmed/set in China or a return to Japan or something (wouldn't be wild about such a move, myself), but I'm sure with a little digging you could find samples of his other stuff.

Mind I severely doubt this would ever happen. I can't really picture EON hiring a Japanese composer.

[PotterBond007]

Anyone for Elliot Goldenthal? He did some fun music for Batman. Or Dario Marianelli (V for Vendetta)? Just some more names to consider.

[The Shark]

Anyone for Elliot Goldenthal? He did some fun music for Batman. Or Dario Marianelli (V for Vendetta)? Just some more names to consider.

Yep. I've been pushing for Elliot Goldenethaal for a long time. Good choice.

I see nothing of genius in any of Taro Iwashiro's scores, mediocre to poor scoring at best. Obviously not a lot of experience or training.

Edited by The Shark, 24 November 2009 - 06:13 AM.

[PotterBond007]

How about Danny Elfman? I think he's also in the style of Goldenthal sometimes, and I enjoyed his music for Spiderman. And the Wanted music is good, too.

Someone also mentioned David Newman way at the begining of this. I agree with that. I love the Serenity music, and I want to add Greg Edmonson who did the music for Firefly which was the series that Serenity came from. I have yet to see the series, but the music is real good.

Edited by PotterBond007, 03 December 2009 - 06:29 AM.

[The Shark]

I like David Elfman, but like John Williams his sound isn't right for Bond - too sweet and saccharine like a candy shop.

David Newman's a good choice, as is Thomas Newman.

[BryanHerbert]

I just wish they would play the "Bond" theme again, and i mean not having the bond theme with an other track. I missed the way they played it when bond was doing something bond like. If they would do that, i would honestly like the newer bond films more. It's James Bond's Theme song for god sake, you can't Call it a bond film if it doesn't even play the theme Duh!!!

Edited by BryanHerbert, 08 December 2009 - 04:36 PM.

[tdalton]

It's James Bond's Theme song for god sake, you can't Call it a bond film if it doesn't even play the theme Duh!!!

Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are "Bond films" although the song does not appear in the main body of either film.

[Tybre]

It's James Bond's Theme song for god sake, you can't Call it a bond film if it doesn't even play the theme Duh!!!

Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are "Bond films" although the song does not appear in the main body of either film.

Well, pieces of it appear briefly in Solace. Although if we're going by the full theme, yep, void.

[The Shark]

I liked it when the Bond theme played when Bond arrived at an airport or checked out at a hotel in FRWL and DN, hopefully we might get something like that.

[BryanHerbert]

Those were great scenes, i wish they would do that in the next film, just don't over use it lol yeah like that is going to happen.

[PotterBond007]

Anyone for Christophe Beck? I've only heard one of his scores, but it was pretty good. Or perhaps James Newton-Howard. I liked his music for the Batman films with Hans Zimmer. (Who I mentioned when I started this). Just some more ideas.

[Tybre]

Greg Edmonson

Not heard his Firefly work, but his work on Drake's Fortune and Among Thieves is brilliant. I can totally get behind that suggestion.

No to Christophe Beck. Based upon what I've managed to find (which is all Buffy score curiously) is just a big no from me. And equal no for Hans Zimmer. I like Zimmer, but I think the man's sound isn't particularly suited to Bond and, more importantly, his scores are far too similar in a lot of cases.

[Gt Munn]

I'm a great David Arnold fan. I loved his big brass score for TND, and more subdued and smartly written ones for CR and QOS. Not a big fan of TWINE or DAD. Remember though, his job is to write for the film, and I believe he gave the films what they needed. I'm sure if he could have gone whichever way he liked he would have taken a different route. I eagerly await the day when Craig's Bond gets to share the silver screen with the Bond theme's guitar for the full brass.

I absolutely despise any media venture composers. These include: Zimmer, Harry-Gregson Williams, and the likes. Their music isn't smartly written (referring to music theory and such). Neither do their scores stand well on their own. In a way they are one-trick ponies that constantly revert to very, very similar sounding compositions recycling through many of their scores. I also have little respect for them because of their teams of ghost writers.

John Powell is an excellent composer today. He is very good with action scores (Excellent examples being the Bourne Series). However, I find he isn't the best idea because this would be yet another thing to tie this Bond reboot into the Bourne Series. We need to distance Bond from that as much as possible. The last thing we want is Bond becoming the English version of Jason Bourne.

There are many other excellent composers out today. Here is one that I wouldn't mind seeing that I wouldn't mind seeing (Though I'm in no hurry to say goodbye to Arnold).

Ed Shearmur- I'm still waiting for his Film Scoring career to launch. He is not a big name composer, though has some excellent scores under his belt such as The Count of Monte Cristo, Reign of Fire (don't judge it based off the movie), and the Bond parody Johnny English. The score for Johnny English is essentially a Bond parody. Shearmur successfully took bits from the various Bond composers and tied it all into one. He wrote an excellent main theme and song to go along with the film. The film had big brass and that big band jazzy feel that goes very well with Bond films.

Edit: Another that came to mind is Alexandre Desplat. Give the french spy film Largo Winch a listen.

Edited by Gt Munn, 31 December 2009 - 02:21 AM.

[The Shark]

I absolutely despise any media venture composers. These include: Zimmer, Harry-Gregson Williams, and the likes. Their music isn't smartly written (referring to music theory and such). Neither do their scores stand well on their own. In a way they are one-trick ponies that constantly revert to very, very similar sounding compositions recycling through many of their scores.

That description sounds just like Arnold to be - generic, not smartly written, clichéd brass crescendos, squeaky clean computerised sounding instruments, irritating and amateur sounding string ostinatos etc...

Barry didn't just give the films what they deserved, he gave each score a unique, easily identifiable sound and raised the films considerably thanks to his work. Arnold, thus far has failed to do that in my opinion. All of the films between TND-QOS could have benefited from a better soundtrack, even from Eric Serra, who managed to give Goldeneye an individual highly appropriate and memorable sound.

[St. John Smythe]

Philip Glass.

I'm throwing Michael Giacchino's hat in the ring. He's done the score for "Lost" and the awesome spy show that was "Alias," - check out his awesome "On the Train" from season 2 of Alias and tell me it doesn't sound Bondian . . . because it does, which is my point, I guess (it's a little early-00s-dated, but still great). And with "MI:3," "Up," and "Star Trek," under his belt, he's got some action-film cred.

[The Shark]

Philip Glass.

I'm throwing Michael Giacchino's hat in the ring. He's done the score for "Lost" and the awesome spy show that was "Alias," - check out his awesome "On the Train" from season 2 of Alias and tell me it doesn't sound Bondian . . . because it does, which is my point, I guess (it's a little early-00s-dated, but still great). And with "MI:3," "Up," and "Star Trek," under his belt, he's got some action-film cred.

Don't like it. Brass sounds horribly clichéd, string line is dull, synth beat is annoying, and there's nothing else worth mentioning.

[St. John Smythe]

All of the films between TND-QOS could have benefited from a better soundtrack, even from Eric Serra, who managed to give Goldeneye an individual highly appropriate and memorable sound.

Goldeneye's soundtrack is one of the worst in the history of Bond films. It's incredibly dated and inappropriate for the action on screen: In two action-packed and tension-filled scenes - Bond's first car chase with Onatopp, and when he and Natalya are trapped in the helicopter - Serra's soundtrack sounds like the Double Dragon soundtrack for the NES. It's horrendous. Not to mention the fact that he butchered the opening theme/gun sequence title song (rendering it almost unrecognizable). And the song over the closing credits . . . I don't know who said it was okay for him to play a song that he recorded, but I hope they were fired. His voice is so off-key and grating. His terrible soundtrack almost ruins the entire film for me.

Don't like it. Brass sounds horribly clichéd, string line is dull, synth beat is annoying, and there's nothing else worth mentioning.

Please don't mince words. He wrote it for a TV show, so I doubt he had the budget that he wanted. His soundtracks for "Up," and "Star Trek" are pretty full and great.

[The Shark]

All of the films between TND-QOS could have benefited from a better soundtrack, even from Eric Serra, who managed to give Goldeneye an individual highly appropriate and memorable sound.

Goldeneye's soundtrack is one of the worst in the history of Bond films. It's incredibly dated and inappropriate for the action on screen: In two action-packed and tension-filled scenes - Bond's first car chase with Onatopp, and when he and Natalya are trapped in the helicopter - Serra's soundtrack sounds like the Double Dragon soundtrack for the NES. It's horrendous. Not to mention the fact that he butchered the opening theme/gun sequence title song (rendering it almost unrecognizable). And the song over the closing credits . . . I don't know who said it was okay for him to play a song that he recorded, but I hope they were fired. His voice is so off-key and grating. His terrible soundtrack almost ruins the entire film for me.

I disagree entirely, it's one of the best Bond soundtracks ever conceived. Yes the moments you mentioned are easily the weakest in the soundtrack, but everything else its brilliant - the terrific romantic cues, the cold, ambient action and suspense cues etc.... They should have hired him back, easily better than anything Arnold's come up with.

Don't like it. Brass sounds horribly clichéd, string line is dull, synth beat is annoying, and there's nothing else worth mentioning.

Please don't mince words. He wrote it for a TV show, so I doubt he had the budget that he wanted. His soundtracks for "Up," and "Star Trek" are pretty full and great.

If he wanted to do it on a budget he could have just have used a piano and a few string instruments. The sample library/virtual instrument that produced the synth beat probably costed more than it takes to hire your average orchestra.

[St. John Smythe]

All of the films between TND-QOS could have benefited from a better soundtrack, even from Eric Serra, who managed to give Goldeneye an individual highly appropriate and memorable sound.

Goldeneye's soundtrack is one of the worst in the history of Bond films. It's incredibly dated and inappropriate for the action on screen: In two action-packed and tension-filled scenes - Bond's first car chase with Onatopp, and when he and Natalya are trapped in the helicopter - Serra's soundtrack sounds like the Double Dragon soundtrack for the NES. It's horrendous. Not to mention the fact that he butchered the opening theme/gun sequence title song (rendering it almost unrecognizable). And the song over the closing credits . . . I don't know who said it was okay for him to play a song that he recorded, but I hope they were fired. His voice is so off-key and grating. His terrible soundtrack almost ruins the entire film for me.

I disagree entirely, it's one of the best Bond soundtracks ever conceived. Yes the moments you mentioned are easily the weakest in the soundtrack, but everything else its brilliant - the terrific romantic cues, the cold, ambient action and suspense cues etc.... They should have hired him back, easily better than anything Arnold's come up with.

Don't like it. Brass sounds horribly clichéd, string line is dull, synth beat is annoying, and there's nothing else worth mentioning.

Please don't mince words. He wrote it for a TV show, so I doubt he had the budget that he wanted. His soundtracks for "Up," and "Star Trek" are pretty full and great.

If he wanted to do it on a budget he could have just have used a piano and a few string instruments. The sample library/virtual instrument that produced the synth beat probably costed more than it takes to hire your average orchestra.

Well . . . I doubt it. Then again, Giacchino's not for everyone but he's certainly better than Serra. Perhaps it sounded great in 1995 (I know that I didn't walk away from the theater saying, "Wow, what a great soundtrack!"), but it doesn't hold well. For me, even the disco of TSWLM sounds more pleasing. Really, the only nice thing I have to say about him is this: It takes a lot of balls to mess up the Bond theme, but he did it. Masterfully.

Edited by St. John Smythe, 31 December 2009 - 07:01 AM.

[PotterBond007]

Trevor Jones--League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Ilan Eshkeri-- Ninja Assassin

Christopher Young-- Spidey 3, Untracebale

Alexandre Desplat-- Harry Potter 7, Golden Compass

Brian Tyler-- Eagle Eye, Children of Dune, Annapolis

Mark Isham-- Next

Ramin Djawadi--Iron Man

Just more suggestions. See what you think.

Edited by PotterBond007, 24 January 2010 - 01:18 AM.

[The Shark]

No, they're all relatively talentless, boring, action composers.

Too Hollywood Blockbuster sounding for Bond. Not English enough.

[PotterBond007]

Well, I'm out of ideas. Unless we go to TV Composers, and I don't know too many.

Sean Callery of 24, NCIS has more than one, Joseph LoDuca did music for a TV movie series called The Librarian, as well as other shows. Greg Edmonson, who I mentioned with Firefly. Andy Price is another. He did music for the BBC series Robin Hood.

[The Shark]

Do you know Elliot Goldenthal?

[PotterBond007]

Yes. I believe I mentioned Goldenthal once before. I like his score for Batman Forever. It's fun.

[Rufus Ffolkes]

Since they're spending hundreds of millions on these films now, why not just loosen the purse strings a bit and spend the cash to bring Barry back?

As that seems unlikely, how about Lalo Schifrin? The fellow who composed the Mission: Impossible theme should understand what to do with Bond.

[Satorious]

Was watching the Director's Cut of Dark City the other day - which reminded me of what a wonderful composer Trevor Jones is (Cliffhanger, From Hell, Excalibur and his earlier Henson work are all great). The subtle romantic theme he wrote for Dark City had many of the hallmarks from Barry - without the blatent ripping that goes on at the moment.

Was also rather impressed with the scores that Chris Lennertz whipped up for the Bond games (and other stuff) - I believe he would be able to do this too. He's quite an under-rated composer in my opinion.

A couple of other lower-key composers that I'd like to see get a shot are Craig Armstrong and John Murphy. I'm not sure well see high-profile composers get a shot.

Considering EON keeps talking about wanting to keep things fresh - it's bizarre that they don't change a couple of the things which are currently stagnating the franchise...

[The Shark]

Agreed. I'd rather they spend their copious budget on hiring a new composer, as opposed to countless needless action sequences, locations, stunts and special effects.