4014 replies to this topic

[SecretAgentFan]

Probably my favorite contradiction: When Q says to Bond, "I told you to bring it back in one piece, not to bring back one piece."

 

Umm, excuse me, but the reason Bond decided to switch to the DB5 in Skyfall was precisely because it was not a company car.

 

Really, Sam?

 

Not so fast.  The DB5, of course, was brought in by Bond to be equipped by Q branch.  Knowing that Bond would probably wreck it, Q´s line is perfectly fine.  After the events of SKYFALL Q again had to build it up from scratch.

[Surrie]

This is taking away from the fact that, for me, Craig's start to his era has been marred by the contradictions he faced at the end of the era (if this is the end).  Mendes was determined to put his mark on the franchise (as are most directors) but I think this was to Craig's detriment in the end. SF and SP are good films, but for me stand-alone and belong too much to Mendes rather than the whole Bond canon. 

[SecretAgentFan]

That I don´t get at all.  They all are stand-alone films, IMO, except CR and QOS.  And for my taste I would even prefer Bond films to remain stand-alone films.  No universe building here, please.  The loose connections between films within one actor´s tenure are enough.

[Surrie]

There are stand-alone films, and then there are Bond films with stand-alone missions/stories. 

 

I prefer the Bond films to not be a continuation of the previous. But having said that I thoroughly enjoyed CR and QoS, and IMO Mendes took it too far with the last 2 installments. 

[Tiin007]

 

Probably my favorite contradiction: When Q says to Bond, "I told you to bring it back in one piece, not to bring back one piece."

 

Umm, excuse me, but the reason Bond decided to switch to the DB5 in Skyfall was precisely because it was not a company car.

 

Really, Sam?

 

Not so fast.  The DB5, of course, was brought in by Bond to be equipped by Q branch.  Knowing that Bond would probably wreck it, Q´s line is perfectly fine.  After the events of SKYFALL Q again had to build it up from scratch.

 

 

So you're claiming that Q Branch equipped the DB5 (with all that weaponry and ejector seat) for Bond, and then let him keep it as his personal car? In the olden days, everything Q gave Bond was "government property" and needed to be "returned in pristine order." But now the public's tax dollars are going towards Bond's personal eccentricity?

 

By the way, I would gladly accept your explanation had there been even a passing reference in Skyfall to the fact that Bond had Q Branch "enhance" the car he won in the Bahamas. In fact, I'd prefer it if such a line had been included, because then Bond fans who care about continuity would not be bending over backwards to explain why Craig's Bond's DB5 (which he won in CR) seemed to be the car from pre-reboot Bond's Goldfinger mission. But as it stands, Skyfall presents the DB5 as Bond's personal car which doesn't have a tracker ("the problem with company cars is they have trackers.").  

 

So I question why Q Branch would equip it for him and then simply let him keep it for his own personal use. 

[Dustin]

The problem is that Mendes started out with a good solid and engaging story for SKYFALL, definitely meant to be a stand alone entry, and then tacked on a halfhearted effort to wrap it all up in the next film. This is never going to work as well as if you had had the idea all long from the start.

[Tiin007]

The problem is that Mendes started out with a good solid and engaging story for SKYFALL, definitely meant to be a stand alone entry, and then tacked on a halfhearted effort to wrap it all up in the next film. This is never going to work as well as if you had had the idea all long from the start.

 

For all of my criticisms of Mendes (see my long post from yesterday), I don't think this one is fully his fault. For years now, EON has been unwilling to commit to planned story arcs in advance (even QoS is an example of this, as some of the earlier drafts of that film indicate that EON had no general plan for what to do after CR until after CR was released). In this way, EON tends to be very reactionary to fan and critical reception of the most recent film (the case could be made that each of the previous four films were somewhat reactionary, particularly the sudden abandoning of Quantum and aspects of the reboot idea in Skyfall). Now, I think it is a good thing that they are attempting to adjust accordingly when making each film. But that's what it should be limited to-- adjustments, not retroactively finagling previous films into a new film's plot when it doesn't quite work. If EON were willing to come up with a general story arc (say, for three films), then they can make tonal and stylistic adjustments after each film while still sticking to the general plan. I think that would be the best way forward. EON just needs to have a little more faith in its product. 

[Surrie]

 

The problem is that Mendes started out with a good solid and engaging story for SKYFALL, definitely meant to be a stand alone entry, and then tacked on a halfhearted effort to wrap it all up in the next film. This is never going to work as well as if you had had the idea all long from the start.

 

For all of my criticisms of Mendes (see my long post from yesterday), I don't think this one is fully his fault. For years now, EON has been unwilling to commit to planned story arcs in advance (even QoS is an example of this, as some of the earlier drafts of that film indicate that EON had no general plan for what to do after CR until after CR was released). In this way, EON tends to be very reactionary to fan and critical reception of the most recent film (the case could be made that each of the previous four films were somewhat reactionary, particularly the sudden abandoning of Quantum and aspects of the reboot idea in Skyfall). Now, I think it is a good thing that they are attempting to adjust accordingly when making each film. But that's what it should be limited to-- adjustments, not retroactively finagling previous films into a new film's plot when it doesn't quite work. If EON were willing to come up with a general story arc (say, for three films), then they can make tonal and stylistic adjustments after each film while still sticking to the general plan. I think that would be the best way forward. EON just needs to have a little more faith in its product. 

 

 

Couldn't agree more with this. The reason why Craig's most recent two films undid what was achieved in his first 2 outings was because of the above. However, I do attribute more of the blame on Mendes and his ego than on Eon entirely. 

[Dustin]

Difficult to say who was really the driving force behind the storyline of SPECTRE, not all of it feels outright like a bad idea. But the 'reveals' for example were given in such an off hand manner you didn't much care for it either way, that's a central weakness of the affair. For example the fact that Quantum is now Spectre was a few lines of dialogue when it should have been something more important and best discovered gradually by Bond and the audience alike.

I've said this before, SPECTRE in my opinion would best have come right after QOS and here should have dealt solely with wiping out Quantum while Blofeld helps Bond along, doing so from the sidelines to his own means. SKYFALL would then have made a fitting farewell for Craig and BOND 25 could pick up Spectre and/or Blofeld - or not, whatever they decide. It would have given the entire complex a sense of structure and opened the door for whoever comes after Craig without a need for awkward reboots.

[Tiin007]

Dustin, I love every aspect of your suggestion there.

 

And it would have given us one more film out of Dench, preferably with a smaller role than in QoS, to then be followed by the big send-off in Skyfall. 

 

And had they thus introduced Fiennes, Whishaw, and Harris in Craig's final film (still Skyfall), I would not be worried that they might not return-- it would create a relatively smooth transition for Bond #7. 

 

The one thing I would add to your suggestion, though: place another film in between your revamped SP and Skyfall. So Craig would have a total of five entries:

1-3: Trilogy of CR, QoS, and SP

4: Standalone 

5:Skyfall 

[Surrie]

Dustin, I love every aspect of your suggestion there.

 

And it would have given us one more film out of Dench, preferably with a smaller role than in QoS, to then be followed by the big send-off in Skyfall. 

 

And had they thus introduced Fiennes, Whishaw, and Harris in Craig's final film (still Skyfall), I would not be worried that they might not return-- it would create a relatively smooth transition for Bond #7. 

 

The one thing I would add to your suggestion, though: place another film in between your revamped SP and Skyfall. So Craig would have a total of five entries:

1-3: Trilogy of CR, QoS, and SP

4: Standalone 

5:Skyfall 

 

What a missed opportunity. 

[Dustin]

Well, things are as they are; we have to deal with the world as it is. Right now it would be already a bonus if the next film can maintain a sense of persistence without adhering to a strict continuity as such. Keep the SIS 'family' and the traditional 'somewhere-near-Whitehall' office and a stronger story for BOND 25, that's about the most one can hope for.

[Agent 76]

Another day, another rumour:

 

http://www.dailymail...-two-films.html

[univex]

The King is dead. Long live the King.

 

http://hdwyn.com/wal...paper-93619.jpg

 

Just fueling the rumor. 

 

If Craig is done, good for him. He´ll leave on a high note. Well, higher than any of the others did. 

[Matt_13]

Holding out hope this is just a rumor. 68 million is just plain silly.

[Tiin007]

Is it wrong of me to hope that the part about two more films is true, and Craig's turning it down is false?

 

By the way, apparently 68 million pounds is about $99 million USD. Wow. 

[sharpshooter]

If true, "I guess it's, uh... a farewell to arms."

[DaveBond21]

Is it wrong of me to hope that the part about two more films is true, and Craig's turning it down is false?

 

By the way, apparently 68 million pounds is about $99 million USD. Wow. 

 

Interesting if the 2 film deal is true, and whether it's because they have a Blofeld story arc they want to round off, or whether it's because of Daniel's age and all the effort and training needed.

 

If Daniel really has gone, I wonder if the 2 films would apply to Hiddleston?

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

[sharpshooter]

I can believe this, to be honest:

 

“He had told people after shooting that this would be his final outing, but the film company still felt he could come around after Spectre if he was offered a money deal.”

 

Assuming all this is true, I'm hoping they announce the new Bond soon. 

[Dustin]

If I remember correctly the contract for a new actor in the role usually is a two film one with an option for a third. The £ 68 million for two films would almost certainly just have meant to make the most of Craig before he's too old, I don't believe any longer storyline was pursued.

However, Craig's replacement will almost certainly not come with this price tag. Also interesting - if true - would be the question out of which pocket MGM planned to shell out this money? Because they themselves could hardly afford it without help. Was it possibly a condition of Sony's that Craig returns as a proven asset?

At any rate I hope we soon will hear more of MGM's future - and right after that of Bond's.

[SecretAgentFan]

That rumoured deal sounds very real to me.  Kudos to Craig for turning it down.  He´s got enough money, too much physical pain already.

 

It´s also explaining why the MGM deal that Wilson previously hoped for in January or February was delayed - and why the meeting between BB, SM and TH (great abbreviations, right?) took place now.

 

And while I would have liked to see another film with CraigBond battling Blofeld, at this stage I´d prefer a new era with another actor and a different approach.  Whether it will be Hiddleston or someone else.

 

It was no coincidence that SPECTRE ended like it did, after all...

[sharpshooter]

And while I would have liked to see another film with CraigBond battling Blofeld, at this stage I´d prefer a new era with another actor and a different approach.  Whether it will be Hiddleston or someone else.

Yeah, my feelings too. The show goes on. 

[Toxteth_OGrady]

Same story is in the Daily Express too...

 

http://www.express.c...-Tom-Hiddleston

[thecasinoroyale]

Well to be honest, with all this drama surrounding James Bond which I don't think should be associated with the production, if Craig wants to go, then announce it and let him go and let's move forward.

Every film ends and we have months of uncertainty if either DC is back or he's quitting or whatever, and for me as a life-long Bond fan, it's getting annoying. Each film feels like it's a hurdle to make, and it's lucky if they DO make it. It doesn't feel planned, and doesn't feel confident in what EON are doing.

It's hard to explain my feelings, but I'm ready for DC to go after so much negativity and speculation around him since 'SPECTRE' - if this is the only sort of moody, rogue Bond he can play now then I'm done with it as much as he has.

Time to bring a new Bond in, make Bond great again and get back to some decent story-telling that DOESN'T revolve around 007 and his extended family in someway. Get out there, get the bad guys, make a thrilling film and win us over like they did in 2006 before they went all "Family Affairs".

[Surrie]

I agree - it is getting frustrating now. If Craig has decided to leave (which I thought he would upon seeing the end of SP for the first time in cinema) then just tell us already! Although Hiddleston isn't my number one choice, and I would like to see DC back... all this speculation and stalling has marred DC's potential return. Best to just move on now to whoever may be next. 

[thecasinoroyale]

It makes me feel the series can't plan ahead. Each film "could be the last" and they seem to really put all their eggs in one basket. EON does nothing except work on the Bond movies...well I'm sure they DO more, but not in the glaring public eye.... so I wouldn't have thought it'd be so hard to confirm or deny reports and progress with a new film.

 

It's put me off DC's return as I don't think he wants to do it really. His character, as well as his attitude, is becoming stale and one-tracked.

 

That's not what Bond is for me, at all. Character OR actor.

[sharpshooter]

The Dynamite James Bond comic series would be a good place to look characterisation wise, I think. In the absence of new films and video-games, these comics are keeping my fandom alive. They managed to translate Fleming's Bond into modern day faultlessly. 

[SecretAgentFan]

Frankly, if one has made about 38 millions already - what good would be a contract for another 68?  It all comes down to this: does Craig want to subject himself to another four to six years of a grueling schedule that takes most of a year of being in top shape, training every day, suffering through countless press junkets and premieres, while cementing that people only think of you in one role (which is acting-wise limited and will always remain so)?

 

I don´t think anybody can blame him.  He has given everything he can, he was terrific and changed the perception of what James Bond should be like.  

 

If he really has quit, I can only say: thank you, Sir, for doing a marvelous job.

 

Also, remember that in former times the rumour mill went on for years about whether Sir Roger would return, whether Timothy Dalton was done or even Pierce Brosnan.

 

It´s been six months since SPECTRE was released.  Six months.  

 

Should the decision be made official in the upcoming weeks it would be almost shockingly quick.

[Surrie]

Being 25, I have only ever know Brosnan and Craig in the role - and as you rightly say we have had relatively quick decisions compared to previously within the franchise. However, I did not experience the waiting of previous eras... and I'm glad I didn't! 

[Agent 76]

4 movies is a really good number for Daniel Craig in my opinion. He has done well for himself and the franchise also, so I congratulate him for a job well done, and wishing him the best for the rest of his career.

 

Now comes the media circus about who's going to be the next Bond.