100 replies to this topic

[QOS007]

I think that he left at the right time. AVTAK, while flawed, is infinitely more entertaining than quite a few films that preceded it, and I'd certainly take it over films such as GOLDFINGER, YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, and MOONRAKER.

Take Moonraker out of that list and I agree with you

And Goldfinger and You Only Live Twice (have no idea why they are on the list).

[tdalton]

I think that he left at the right time. AVTAK, while flawed, is infinitely more entertaining than quite a few films that preceded it, and I'd certainly take it over films such as GOLDFINGER, YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, and MOONRAKER.

Take Moonraker out of that list and I agree with you

And Goldfinger and You Only Live Twice (have no idea why they are on the list).

I put them both there because they're awful films. Admitedly, GOLDFINGER is significantly better than YOLT, but it's still a terrible movie in its own right.

[Jeao007]

I believe FYEO should have been his last one. O and AVTAK we're rather week IMO.

[Cruiserweight]

Not that shallow these days, because she's been dead for 10 years.

To be fair,she's been dead for only 8 years.

[MarkA]

Admitedly, GOLDFINGER is significantly better than YOLT, but it's still a terrible movie in its own right.

I have got to admit that is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CBN and if you truly think so think your taste is highly questionable.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

Admitedly, GOLDFINGER is significantly better than YOLT, but it's still a terrible movie in its own right.

I have got to admit that is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CBN and if you truly think so think your taste is highly questionable.

Indeed. Surely a true Bond fan would never describe any official Bond movie as terrible? My least favourite Bond movie is Diamonds Are Forever, but I would never describe it as terrible!

[Cruiserweight]

He's allowed his opinion. Just because you or even the majority disagree with it doesn't make it wrong. He doesn't think Goldfinger is a good film. Big deal? I don't like Goldfinger much either.

[MarkA]

He's allowed his opinion. Just because you or even the majority disagree with it doesn't make it wrong. He doesn't think Goldfinger is a good film. Big deal? I don't like Goldfinger much either.

GOLDFINGER is one of the major defining Bond movies. But not only that, it is an important and significant film in it's own right. One of the most iconic and genre defining films of 60's British cinema. It is not even my favourite Bond but I recognise its importance in the history of film. GOLDFINGER wrote and laid down many of the rules and conventions of action Cinema. To say you don't like it is one thing, to say it is a terrible film, is (especially compared to a AVTAK, which artistically is a dead end) just plain wrong. Out of Bond fandom AVTAK is a forgotten movie and rightly so.

[tdalton]

Admitedly, GOLDFINGER is significantly better than YOLT, but it's still a terrible movie in its own right.

I have got to admit that is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CBN and if you truly think so think your taste is highly questionable.

Perhaps I should post my lists of likes and dislikes here and have the community tell me which ones are acceptable and which ones aren't so that I can fall in line and just conform to the majority opinion.

Indeed. Surely a true Bond fan would never describe any official Bond movie as terrible? My least favourite Bond movie is Diamonds Are Forever, but I would never describe it as terrible!

My apologies. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to praise EON even when they've made terrible films. One doesn't have to like every film that EON has made in order to be a Bond fan, and it's completely unfair to suggest otherwise. DAF, GF, TMWTGG, TND, TWINE, and DAD are all terrible films, and I shouldn't be expected to like something just because it was made by EON.



Also, maybe the moderators should change the registration process to include a survey of favorite Bond films so that only "true Bond fans" are allowed to register and post on the site.

[HH007]

Admitedly, GOLDFINGER is significantly better than YOLT, but it's still a terrible movie in its own right.

I have got to admit that is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CBN and if you truly think so think your taste is highly questionable.

Perhaps I should post my lists of likes and dislikes here and have the community tell me which ones are acceptable and which ones aren't so that I can fall in line and just conform to the majority opinion.

Indeed. Surely a true Bond fan would never describe any official Bond movie as terrible? My least favourite Bond movie is Diamonds Are Forever, but I would never describe it as terrible!

My apologies. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to praise EON even when they've made terrible films. One doesn't have to like every film that EON has made in order to be a Bond fan, and it's completely unfair to suggest otherwise. DAF, GF, TMWTGG, TND, TWINE, and DAD are all terrible films, and I shouldn't be expected to like something just because it was made by EON.



Also, maybe the moderators should change the registration process to include a survey of favorite Bond films so that only "true Bond fans" are allowed to register and post on the site.

I think that people do overrate GF (I'll take FRWL or DN over it any day of the week), but I still enjoy it myself. I agree, speaking as a fan of series, that EON does put out the occasional BAD movie (DAF, MR, and DAD come to mind).

[AMC Hornet]

I've always felt that AVTAK was a bridge too far for ol' rog. Sailing off into the sunset with Octopussy would have been a fitting conclusion for anyone's era. Showering with Stacy simply did not compare.
After a couple of years monitoring this forum, I have finally registered and this is my first post. I would prefer to communicate with mature members, rather than the 15-year-old fanboys who think they could have made a better film than Die Another Day with half the budget.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

After Moonraker. But only because the next film was obviously intended for a new, younger, actor as Bond.

Cool poster! A Dalton FYEO I'd definitely like to see. I always thought Dalton's Bond would be a perfect match for Carole Bouquet's Melina.

Back on topic, Sir Roger most likely should've retired after MR and definitely after OP. However, I would not have wanted Dalton's Bond in OP(Sir Rog was born to play Bond in that one) or in AVTAK(at least, not without a major script overhaul prior to shooting).

[Colossus]

Admitedly, GOLDFINGER is significantly better than YOLT, but it's still a terrible movie in its own right.

I have got to admit that is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CBN and if you truly think so think your taste is highly questionable.

Indeed. Surely a true Bond fan would never describe any official Bond movie as terrible? My least favourite Bond movie is Diamonds Are Forever, but I would never describe it as terrible!

Same here. That said Goldfinger and YOLT are excellent Bond adventures.

[Cruiserweight]

Admitedly, GOLDFINGER is significantly better than YOLT, but it's still a terrible movie in its own right.

I have got to admit that is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CBN and if you truly think so think your taste is highly questionable.

Indeed. Surely a true Bond fan would never describe any official Bond movie as terrible? My least favourite Bond movie is Diamonds Are Forever, but I would never describe it as terrible!

Same here. That said Goldfinger and YOLT are excellent Bond adventures.

Face facts. Not every Bond film is gods gift to cinema. As Bond fans we should be allowed to dislike a certain Bond film without being told we're not true Bond fans because we don't like a popular choice.

Back on subject i'm glad he did the 7 that he did. Did he look a little off in AVTAK ? Sure but he still had it in him. I watched Octopussy last night & had a blast.

Damn i miss the 80's Bond!

[Colossus]

Waitaminute, no one said that any movie is gods gift to cinema or anything comparable to that. There we go with extremes again.

[Cruiserweight]

Waitaminute, no one said that any movie is gods gift to cinema or anything comparable to that. There we go with extremes again.

No here we aren't going to extremes again.

Telling someone that they aren't a real Bond fan because they don't like Goldfinger?
That's going to the extreme.

Give me a damn break!

[Blofeld's Cat]

I always rate the Bond movies from favourite to least favourite. The last movie on my list is my least favourite, not the worst one. But that's just me.

To answer the thread question, I'm happy that he retired after his last movie. It just happened to be A View to a Kill, which is in my top 24 on my list of favourite Bond movies.

[tdalton]

Waitaminute, no one said that any movie is gods gift to cinema or anything comparable to that. There we go with extremes again.

No here we aren't going to extremes again.

Telling someone that they aren't a real Bond fan because they don't like Goldfinger?
That's going to the extreme.

Give me a damn break!

Well said.

Saying that anyone who doesn't like GOLDFINGER isn't a Bond fan goes beyond being unfair and is absolutely uncalled for, as is calling someone an idiot for not liking GOLDFINGER. Absolutely uncalled for.

Also, by the same logic used in this thread, everyone would have to be forced to like CASINO ROYALE '67 as well, seeing as how that is a "James Bond" film and all.

[Tybre]

Waitaminute, no one said that any movie is gods gift to cinema or anything comparable to that. There we go with extremes again.

No here we aren't going to extremes again.

Telling someone that they aren't a real Bond fan because they don't like Goldfinger?
That's going to the extreme.

Give me a damn break!

Well said.

Saying that anyone who doesn't like GOLDFINGER isn't a Bond fan goes beyond being unfair and is absolutely uncalled for, as is calling someone an idiot for not liking GOLDFINGER. Absolutely uncalled for.

Also, by the same logic used in this thread, everyone would have to be forced to like CASINO ROYALE '67 as well, seeing as how that is a "James Bond" film and all.

Hey! '67 was a good movie. For half an hour. Then it went to hell

Indeed, though, calling people idiots just because they dislike Goldfinger is idiotic in and of itself. Personally I'd place Goldfinger around 16-18 on my list. Only reason it's #7 on the list I posted in that other thread is I'm an anal sonofabitch who couldn't skip a number or leave a number blank, and so there we are.

And now that that's out of the way, on to the point of the thread, I say Moore left at the perfect time. AVTAK may not be the best film ever, but I really don't have any qualms with it having been made the way it was. I suppose if he had to leave earlier, after Octopussy. Octopussy just won't work with another actor. I've seen people say if Timothy assumed the role in OP it would be better, and I greatly disagree. Much as I love Dalton, I think Octopussy tailored to his Bond would have made the film mediocre at best. The sheer campy fun of Moore and Octopussy is what makes it so, well, fun, and is the reason it is my #1 Moore film and one of my top 10.

[AMC Hornet]

What a fun thread!
Personally, I can't think of any actor who could have made AVTAK any better, the way it was written. Could you imagine Timothy Dalton camping it up as James St. John Smythe, as a first effort? AVTAK was a Moore Bond, just not a very good one, IMCO (in my considerable opinion (yes, I know the phrase usually includes humble or considered, but I'm being facetious here)).

As for Golfinger: keep in mind, none of us have the right to state categorically which films are the BEST - only which are our favorites. For instance, although I admit that Goldfinger was the first to possess all the hallmarks of a classic Bond film, it still does not rank highly among my favorites...possibly because it is the only film in the series that I never had the privilege of seeing on the big screen. I dearly wish that that were not so, but there it is. My first exposure was Diamonds are Forever, then the first six in retrospective, then Live and Let Die, etc. I have a soft spot for what some may consider the WORST films of the series, from 1969-1977.

Still, to say one is NOT a Bond fan if one likes Goldfinger? Who wrote that? Where does he live? Where's the rope...?

[Tybre]

Still, to say one is NOT a Bond fan if one likes Goldfinger? Who wrote that? Where does he live? Where's the rope...?

I think a golden table and an industrial laser would be more appropriate, don't you?

[The Ghost Who Walks]

I would not have wanted Dalton's Bond in OP(Sir Rog was born to play Bond in that one) or in AVTAK(at least, not without a major script overhaul prior to shooting).

I think Dalton could have done OP if it was retooled slightly. The intense, exciting final act feels like something he could star in already.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

I would not have wanted Dalton's Bond in OP(Sir Rog was born to play Bond in that one) or in AVTAK(at least, not without a major script overhaul prior to shooting).

I think Dalton could have done OP if it was retooled slightly. The intense, exciting final act feels like something he could star in already.

Dalton's Bond would have been a perfect fit for the East Berlin train sequences, Cold War atmosphere is a gift for Dalton's Bond. Look how wonderfully he handled that in TLD.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

It was to say Goldfinger is "terrible" that took the piss. Goldfinger is iconic, to call it terrible surely calls in to question the said person's reasoning of the true quality of the movie. Of course, we all dislike certain Bond movies. I'm not overly keen on Diamonds Are Forever, Die Another Day, The Man With The Golden Gun and Thunderball. But I would never call any of them terrible movies, particularly Thunderball given how well-respected and indeed iconic it is. Surely that is a fair point?

[Cruiserweight]

It was to say Goldfinger is "terrible" that took the piss. Goldfinger is iconic, to call it terrible surely calls in to question the said person's reasoning of the true quality of the movie. Of course, we all dislike certain Bond movies. I'm not overly keen on Diamonds Are Forever, Die Another Day, The Man With The Golden Gun and Thunderball. But I would never call any of them terrible movies, particularly Thunderball given how well-respected and indeed iconic it is. Surely that is a fair point?

But on the other hand if someone finds a Bond film bad who are we to call him out on it? If he thinks it's bad,he thinks it's bad.We shouldn't say he's not a Bond fan because of it. Who cares if most find it iconic? He doesn't like it? Big deal. He's still a Bond fan.

Personally,i don't like Dr.No,Goldfinger,You Only Live Twice,& Die Another Day & can find Dr.No & Goldfiner boring at times.

Am i not a Bond fan because of that?

[double o ego]

I think instead of going around blasting something and then setting off questionably unfair responses, maybe we should substantiate our comments or labeling of certain movies with actual reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and that needs to be respected but like I said, maybe giving reasons can keep things civil.

Anyway, I think Moonraker should have been Moore's last Bond movie. He still looked decent and by the time FYEO was filmed, Moore was looking terrible to me. I'm still amazed he managed to do another 2 movies after FYEO. Also, we could have gotten more out of Dalton too. Oh well it is what it is.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

It was to say Goldfinger is "terrible" that took the piss. Goldfinger is iconic, to call it terrible surely calls in to question the said person's reasoning of the true quality of the movie. Of course, we all dislike certain Bond movies. I'm not overly keen on Diamonds Are Forever, Die Another Day, The Man With The Golden Gun and Thunderball. But I would never call any of them terrible movies, particularly Thunderball given how well-respected and indeed iconic it is. Surely that is a fair point?

But on the other hand if someone finds a Bond film bad who are we to call him out on it? If he thinks it's bad,he thinks it's bad.We shouldn't say he's not a Bond fan because of it. Who cares if most find it iconic? He doesn't like it? Big deal. He's still a Bond fan.

Personally,i don't like Dr.No,Goldfinger,You Only Live Twice,& Die Another Day & can find Dr.No & Goldfiner boring at times.

Am i not a Bond fan because of that?

There's a difference between calling a film bad and calling a film terrible. If you re-read what I said I agree that a Bond fan can dislike a Bond film, just as we all do. However, would you say your least favourite Bond movie is terrible? Maybe the critically and commercially failed ones may just about qualify as terrible movies, but Goldfinger is neither of these things.

[tdalton]

It was to say Goldfinger is "terrible" that took the piss. Goldfinger is iconic, to call it terrible surely calls in to question the said person's reasoning of the true quality of the movie. Of course, we all dislike certain Bond movies. I'm not overly keen on Diamonds Are Forever, Die Another Day, The Man With The Golden Gun and Thunderball. But I would never call any of them terrible movies, particularly Thunderball given how well-respected and indeed iconic it is. Surely that is a fair point?

No, that's not a fair point at all.

The only way to have a reasonable discussion and to give my "opinion" of the "true quality" of the film is for me to lie and say that I think that the film is fantastic when I really don't? That's just unfair and uncalled for. Just because something is iconic doesn't mean that I'm forced to have a heightened opinion of it.

[AMC Hornet]

[ Of course, we all dislike certain Bond movies. I'm not overly keen on Diamonds Are Forever, Die Another Day, The Man With The Golden Gun and Thunderball. But I would never call any of them terrible movies, particularly Thunderball given how well-respected and indeed iconic it is.

Thank you for helping make the point - just because I happen to disagree with your opinion (personally, the films you say you dislike are my top favorites, along with OHMSS, LALD, OP and TLD - the other underdogs) doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong, just different. But we are stating our preferences, based on our personal tastes, not slamming a particular film as 'bad' and dissing anyone who likes it. That's the kind of 15-year-old fanboy internet flaming that I personally can't tolerate (okay, maybe you're not 15, whoever you are, but my opinion is based on what little I know).

No one film in a 22-film series is going to please everyone, not even the next one. The best way to enjoy a film is to go in with no pre-formed expectations. Just because it's not exactly what you wanted is no reason to be disappointed. The Bond films aren't made for me, personally, tailored to my exact specifications. They're made for people like me, but obviously not everyone is just like me. Viva la difference!

[tdalton]

But we are stating our preferences, based on our personal tastes, not slamming a particular film as 'bad' and dissing anyone who likes it. That's the kind of 15-year-old fanboy internet flaming that I personally can't tolerate (okay, maybe you're not 15, whoever you are, but my opinion is based on what little I know).

I have not once criticized someone for liking GOLDFINGER, or any of the films for that matter. I have criticized the comments that have said that someone who doesn't like GOLDFINGER is "idiotic" or not a "true Bond fan", etc. Those are what have been criticized by me. I would never criticize someone just because they like a film that I don't. That's how the entertainment industry (and art in general) goes. Everyone likes different things, and everyone dislikes different things, and nobody should be criticized for being at either end of the spectrum on a particular piece of entertainment.