36 replies to this topic

[Quantumofsolace007]

Connery Lazenby moore and Brosnan played Baccrat (spelling) Dalton played Black Jack and Craig played Texas Holdem poker.


Now I've been yelled at by common bond fans and most of them have said "you can like stars your age, yoo-hoo (a delicious Choclate milk i'd recomend to anyone) and texas hold em but keep all of them away from Bond"


But Is baccrat the right answer? would fleming himself eventually included holdem poker?

I say Hold'em Poker is a great game for 007 it requires skill rather then luck and to me it fit's craig's bond like a glove if there is a casino Scene in bond 23 (and there is a fellow who argued there will be because ever odd number bond film since goldeneye featured 007 at a casino)I say Texas Hold em is a great game to include (and a fun mini game to include on the site I'm still playing texas holdem on the old casino Royale site)


What do you think?

[jaguar007]

I was thinking "Go Fish"

Seriously, I agree with you that Texas Hold Em makes sense over Baccarat because Baccarat is basically a dying game. In these modern times the high rollers play Texas Hold em (granted, I don't know if Baccarat is still popular in Monte Carlo since it has been over 20 years since I was there). I doubt most people under 30 even know what Baccarat is these days (at least in the US).

[Tarl_Cabot]

Roulette or 3 card poker(nothing like Texas H), something we haven't seen 007 do before.

[dinovelvet]

Connery Lazenby moore and Brosnan played Baccrat (spelling) Dalton played Black Jack and Craig played Texas Holdem poker.

Connery also played craps in DAF. No reflection on the quality of the film though

Rog played backgammon in OP, and played whatever they were doing in that TMWTGG Macau casino. Or maybe he just sat there and watched. He was in a casino, anyway.

So there is a history of Bond doing much more than just baccarat. Roulette is the only other big casino game that he hasn't done, so let's have some of that in 23 (including the inevitable moment where Bond wins big by betting on 00)

[Quantumofsolace007]

you have a point

Din i'll agree with you under one condition on bond 23's site one can stil play Poker hell i have over 4 million points they don't mean anything but still 4 million


so Roulette as the game in the move Hold em on the site

[Bryce (003)]

Roulette could be good, but you're really playing the house and not the other players. Personally, that's what makes it fun. A sense of "all of us vs. them". Then again, "life is gone with just a spin of the wheel."

High stakes blackjack played by what used to be called "continental style" is much like Baccarat. All the players have three turns with the shoe and the option to continue, hence they are the "bank" for a minimum of those turns.

Baccarat is kind of a Bond staple. Backgammon (which I enjoy and play regularly) is good but it's not a casino game per se. Sean, Roger, George and Pierce all have had a shot at it. If Craig's Bond is the "best player in the service" he could have a go. I will agree that Hold 'em is the great contemporary take on it though and worked nicely in CR.

[jrcjohnny99]

Roulette could be good, but you're really playing the house and not the other players. Personally, that's what makes it fun. A sense of "all of us vs. them". Then again, "life is gone with just a spin of the wheel."

High stakes blackjack played by what used to be called "continental style" is much like Baccarat. All the players have three turns with the shoe and the option to continue, hence they are the "bank" for a minimum of those turns.

Baccarat is kind of a Bond staple. Backgammon (which I enjoy and play regularly) is good but it's not a casino game per se. Sean, Roger, George and Pierce all have had a shot at it. If Craig's Bond is the "best player in the service" he could have a go. I will agree that Hold 'em is the great contemporary take on it though and worked nicely in CR.

Call me old fashioned, but if it's gonna be cards, it should be Baccarat;
I am suprised we've never seen him play Roulette tho...and, as it's my game, Craps is always welcome...

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

Texas Hold'Em, but I wouldn't have a problem if they returned to Chemin de Fer.

[Quantumofsolace007]

I do want to say if bond does play Baccrat in bond 23 i won't be upset at all i prefer hold em but i don't hate Baccrat.


I am pleased most people here are ok with Hold em

[007Bond007]

definetly chemin de fer.

[danslittlefinger]

definetly chemin de fer.

Yes, let's keep it classic.

[Tybre]

I say either go with the classic, baccarat, or my two games of choice, blackjack and bridge. That said, I wouldn't much suggest bridge. Bridge is a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong game.

[Mr_Wint]

It takes skill to play baccarat too. Baccarat (or the variation Chemin de Fer) fits Bond's character much better because it is so straightforward and still has some class. It is a game for wealthy players and high stakes.

As for Poker, bluffing and chip-shuffling feels so totally anti-Bond. The game is popular and trendy, and that's two good reasons to keep it out of Bond's world.

[The Shark]

I'm a baccarat man myself, been playing it since I was 9. I'd say it suits Bond's character more.

[Aris007]

Bacarrat! It's Bond classic!

[Sark2.0]

It takes skill to play baccarat too. Baccarat (or the variation Chemin de Fer) fits Bond's character much better because it is so straightforward and still has some class. It is a game for wealthy players and high stakes.

As for Poker, bluffing and chip-shuffling feels so totally anti-Bond. The game is popular and trendy, and that's two good reasons to keep it out of Bond's world.

1) poker is a game for wealthy players and high stakes. Ever hear of the Big Game at the Bellagio? the limits are 4/8k and it takes about a quarter of a million just to sit down. There's plenty of other places to play where people are dropping many thousands of dollars very quickly.

2) Bluffing is anti-Bond?! It's completely Bond. You remember the laser scene in GF? What was Connery-Bond doing when he said that his people knew everything he knew? Bluffing! That's hardly the only example.

3) Poker is especially popular right now yes, but I don't think there was ever a time in recent memory when most people would ask "what's poker?" or "does a full house beat a straight?". Not so with baccarat.

4) poker is simply a superior game, because it is a game of skill, unlike roulette, baccarat, craps, or (for most players) blackjack.

[jaguar007]

Is Baccarat still popular in Europe? I think the move to poker for Casino Royale was wise, because (at least in the US) most people are not familiar with Baccarat.

M: Villers tells me you are the best player in the service. Le Chiffre has set up a high stakes poker game as Casino Royale in Montenegro.

Bond: POKER?!?!?! I don't play poker. I play Baccarat. Send someone else.

[The Shark]

4) poker is simply a superior game, because it is a game of skill, unlike roulette, baccarat, craps, or (for most players) blackjack.

I'd say Baccarat is definitely a game of skill in terms of probability, and judging whether or not the other man is bluffing.

I just find it more fun that poker, and far less American, which in the film was a move to Americanise Bond by presenting a game popular in the states.

[Mr_Wint]

It takes skill to play baccarat too. Baccarat (or the variation Chemin de Fer) fits Bond's character much better because it is so straightforward and still has some class. It is a game for wealthy players and high stakes.

As for Poker, bluffing and chip-shuffling feels so totally anti-Bond. The game is popular and trendy, and that's two good reasons to keep it out of Bond's world.

1) poker is a game for wealthy players and high stakes.

As I tried to say, Poker is more a game for everyone, rich and poor. Baccarat is more exclusive.

2) Bluffing is anti-Bond?! It's completely Bond.

It's just my interpretation. Bond is always superior and extremely self-confident. That doesn't work well with Poker. Somehow I feel that it's not his style to hide behind sunglasses or try to pretend anything. The way Bond behaves at the casino table in CR makes him a terrible poker player in every way. They got the character right but picked the wrong game, and that made Bond look stupid.

3) Poker is especially popular right now yes, but I don't think there was ever a time in recent memory when most people would ask "what's poker?" or "does a full house beat a straight?". Not so with baccarat.

What are you trying to say? My point is that most people don't know how to play Baccarat. They don't even know what it is. But then again, most people don't drive an Aston Martin to work or drink Bollinger for supper...!

4) poker is simply a superior game, because it is a game of skill, unlike roulette, baccarat, craps, or (for most players) blackjack.

I've some some books on Baccarat. There's some skill involved.

[jaguar007]

What are you trying to say? My point is that most people don't know how to play Baccarat. They don't even know what it is. But then again, most people don't drive an Aston Martin to work or drink Bollinger for supper...!

Yes, but most people at least know what Bollinger and an Aston Martin is. If Le Chiffre and Bond were playing a game that nobody watching the movie understood, it would loose a bit of the tension in the scene.

[The Shark]

What are you trying to say? My point is that most people don't know how to play Baccarat. They don't even know what it is. But then again, most people don't drive an Aston Martin to work or drink Bollinger for supper...!

Yes, but most people at least know what Bollinger and an Aston Martin is. If Le Chiffre and Bond were playing a game that nobody watching the movie understood, it would loose a bit of the tension in the scene.

Then they could explain it before hand, maybe have Bond give an internal monologue telling the view how to play.

[Mr_Wint]

What are you trying to say? My point is that most people don't know how to play Baccarat. They don't even know what it is. But then again, most people don't drive an Aston Martin to work or drink Bollinger for supper...!

Yes, but most people at least know what Bollinger and an Aston Martin is. If Le Chiffre and Bond were playing a game that nobody watching the movie understood, it would loose a bit of the tension in the scene.

Then they could explain it before hand, maybe have Bond give an internal monologue telling the view how to play.

Or why not a dialogue scene with Vesper as in the book.

Most people don't know so much about Nuclear science, but that didn't stop them...

[Sark2.0]

I'd say Baccarat is definitely a game of skill in terms of probability, and judging whether or not the other man is bluffing.

Perhaps in Europe there's some small level of skill involved, but if you're playing in America it's probably punto baccarat (I think that's what it's called), which is just luck. The quick way that you can tell whether something is a game of chance or skill is whether there is a house edge. If there's a house edge, and you're not doing something like counting cards, it's a game of chance. You can use "skill" to minimize your loses, but you will lose eventually.

As I tried to say, Poker is more a game for everyone, rich and poor. Baccarat is more exclusive.

It's a game for everyone... who has the cash.

You must be appalled by "mini baccarat".

What are you trying to say? My point is that most people don't know how to play Baccarat. They don't even know what it is. But then again, most people don't drive an Aston Martin to work or drink Bollinger for supper...!

as was pointed out, people may not do those things, but they know how to drive cars and drink champagne.

I've some some books on Baccarat. There's some skill involved.

Is there a house edge?

[Quantumofsolace007]

What are you trying to say? My point is that most people don't know how to play Baccarat. They don't even know what it is. But then again, most people don't drive an Aston Martin to work or drink Bollinger for supper...!

Yes, but most people at least know what Bollinger and an Aston Martin is. If Le Chiffre and Bond were playing a game that nobody watching the movie understood, it would loose a bit of the tension in the scene.

Then they could explain it before hand, maybe have Bond give an internal monologue telling the view how to play.

Oh come on Shark u and wint can;'t be serious

Hey instead of keeping the story going along lets stop and explain a card game only few bond fans want.

Sorry Poker was a smart move. personnaly bond 23 should have poker as it just makes more sense. It's not an attempt to americanize anything it's simply a more world recognized game. And for those that say keep trendy and popular things away from bond. Uhm bond is trendy and popular so i'm a little confused.

[danslittlefinger]

Baccarat is still played where the big money is. Mainly in European casinos. Never went away.
If the audiences don't know what it is, then they might learn watching it. Audience "ignorance" (I use that loosely ) isn't an excuse NOT to have it in a film or anything else for that matter.

[Loeffelholz]

Roulette would be cool...but I admit that I'm a fan of baccarat. I was opposed to Texas Hold 'Em in CR, but I'll now readily admit that I was wrong and Eon was right. Now, however, since it would be most likely to be just a scene, and not the middle act of a film, why not show Bond winning a nice big hand of 'the old game'?

[Aris007]

It takes skill to play baccarat too. Baccarat (or the variation Chemin de Fer) fits Bond's character much better because it is so straightforward and still has some class. It is a game for wealthy players and high stakes.

As for Poker, bluffing and chip-shuffling feels so totally anti-Bond. The game is popular and trendy, and that's two good reasons to keep it out of Bond's world.

1) poker is a game for wealthy players and high stakes. Ever hear of the Big Game at the Bellagio? the limits are 4/8k and it takes about a quarter of a million just to sit down. There's plenty of other places to play where people are dropping many thousands of dollars very quickly.

2) Bluffing is anti-Bond?! It's completely Bond. You remember the laser scene in GF? What was Connery-Bond doing when he said that his people knew everything he knew? Bluffing! That's hardly the only example.

3) Poker is especially popular right now yes, but I don't think there was ever a time in recent memory when most people would ask "what's poker?" or "does a full house beat a straight?". Not so with baccarat.

4) poker is simply a superior game, because it is a game of skill, unlike roulette, baccarat, craps, or (for most players) blackjack.

I think we have to make one thing clear here, because it seems we've confused something! Bond isn't a banker or a wealthy bussisensman! He's an agent! He doesn't have a quarter of a million to lose in every film! In Casino Royale he was financed by the treasury! He didn't have that many to stake! In many films we see him playing for pleasure small amounts! I think poker as you probably have it in your mind is not for Bond, unless the money isn't his! I agree that big enemies are wealthy and ususally they play high-stakes games, but we can't see Bond been financed by the government every time! In addition, it'd be a little fake for a small agent to stake so big amounts by his own!

So I think we should stick with other car games!

[Captain Tightpants]

They should play F@#%ed By The Bus for the next interrogation scene. You get so smashed you'll tell anyone anything.

Actually, now that I think on it, an alcohol-based interrogation scene might just work. They did it in RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK just fine.

[Mr_Wint]

Hey instead of keeping the story going along lets stop and explain a card game only few bond fans want.

The audience don't have to understand everything. Just a few small details is enough for them to follow the story. "Like putting a magnet near a compass? - Yeah, exactly."

In case you missed it: A few dialouge scenes in CR are used to explain the game Poker. Both on the train between Bond and Vesper, and later with some lines from Mathis during the game.

With the gambling scenes we got in CR, I'm not so sure that people's common knowledge about Poker helped to improve the film. Even people who never play Poker laughed at the totally outlandish hands. Le Chiffre is so skilled that he somehow knows that the opponent has a 17.6% of winning... yet his eye shudder everytime he bluff! For the last hand, everyone (!) go all-in after the river (!!) and each new player beats the one before him (!!!). Ludicrous.

[Captain Tightpants]

Yeah, but that's simple poetic licence. As for Le Chiffre knowing the probability, for all we know it was simply something designed to intimidate his opponent. Purely psychological rather than mathematical.