69 replies to this topic

[David Schofield]

Saw the film a week or so ago.

I enjoyed it - but it certainly wasn't the deep masterpiece many reviewers had indicated. I was rather disappointed in the end product after all the hype.

On a similar theme of "Broke Britain" (yes, Eddie Izzard, it does exist) there is "Outlaw" by Nick Love. A much better, more thoughtful film.

On the subject of "Taken" - sure, its an entertaining film, but surely it's not meant to be taken remotely seriously: yet another indestructible American super-soldier on the loose....

[Safari Suit]

Perhaps some people overpraised/were too forgiving of Harry Brown, including me, but good lord Outlaw is just dire (yes, yes IMO); unexciting, uncompelling and just plain unentertaining. I certainly wouldn't have said it was more "thoughtful" than Harry Brown, or anything else for that matter.

Still in the interest of diplomacy I am greatful Outlaw exists just for this
(WARNING: Not for kids)

"Taxi Driver came out...got -ed"

[David Schofield]

Perhaps some people overpraised/were too forgiving of Harry Brown, including me, but good lord Outlaw is just dire (yes, yes IMO); unexciting, uncompelling and just plain unentertaining. I certainly wouldn't have said it was more "thoughtful" than Harry Brown, or anything else for that matter.

Still in the interest of diplomacy I am greatful Outlaw exists just for this
(WARNING: Not for kids)

"Taxi Driver came out...got -ed"

Among other things, any movie where the lead character refers to Blair as an "f'in C" as opposed to excusing the IRA because they fought for somthing(!) is always going to get my vote.

But that's just my worldview.

[Safari Suit]

There's more to films than just having your world view fed back to you, especially in the form of lazy, gallery-playing " like Blair" comments (not that I'm saying he isn't a ). And I think to say Brown "excuses the IRA" is an over-reaction, though it is interesting that over the years mainstream films have been notably sheepish about condemning the IRA.

Still, anywhere further this film could go would obviously not be anywhere particularly civil, so I suggest we just stop here and say we disagree rather strongly on Outlaw.

As for Taken, I have to say one of the reasons I found it disappointing was that it did seem to take itself too seriously to me, I sensed very little humour which was refreshing in some ways, but I felt it ultimately worked against the film given it's ludicrousness and strangely depressing content.

[David Schofield]

There's more to films than just having your world view fed back to you, especially in the form of lazy, gallery-playing " like Blair" comments (not that I'm saying he isn't a ). And I think to say Brown "excuses the IRA" is an over-reaction, though it is interesting that over the years mainstream films have been notably sheepish about condemning the IRA.

Still, anywhere further this film could go would obviously not be anywhere particularly civil, so I suggest we just stop here and say we disagree rather strongly on Outlaw.

As for Taken, I have to say one of the reasons I found it disappointing was that it did seem to take itself too seriously to me, I sensed very little humour which was refreshing in some ways, but I felt it ultimately worked against the film given it's ludicrousness and strangely depressing content.

Don't worry, I was merely being arguementative about what I liked about the one film as opposed to the other. Though the statement from Outlaw does appeal to me more. Harry Brown I found a disappointment after such hype; Outlaw, at least, I found provactive. i agree - cinema has never condemned the IRA, strangely or otherwise.**

As for Taken - agree 100% with you.

** okay, it because the USA, the biggest box office market in the world, views the IRA as gallant freedom fighters for the oppressed rather than as callous murderers

[tim partridge]

As for Taken, I have to say one of the reasons I found it disappointing was that it did seem to take itself too seriously to me, I sensed very little humour which was refreshing in some ways, but I felt it ultimately worked against the film given it's ludicrousness and strangely depressing content.

I have to disagree. It felt very tounge in cheek from the Holly Valance cameo to Neeson's cranky retired agent (who seemed to be channeling all of the frustration's of Jugren Prochnow's captain of Das Boot, witnessing the ineptness on hand), comedy slapstick violence, such as the French criminal being hit by a lorry staged like a Buster Keaton gag plus all of the other stereotypes and cliches. The rest is lighthearted, unpretentious, escapist, shoot em up fun. Sure, they pass through the issue of trafficking, but it's used soley as a plot device and it's not an exploration of an issue or some kind of social commentary. No formal or tonal indulgence either. All played straight, yes, but then isn't all of the best comedy?

I think Brown on the other hand actually tries to address morality, even though it's stereotypes of thug land are every bit as one dimensionally offensive as the Albanian/French from Taken. And with a totally grim, self consciously serious, Kitchen sink meets 24 Days Later meets David Lynch ad stylised dread. Where was the lighthearted escapism? Plus the Caine monologues commenting on society and the IRA with a straight face, seemingly designed to become Get Carter style iconography.

Again, all just my opinion.

Edited by tim partridge, 26 April 2010 - 03:06 PM.

[Safari Suit]

Well I always prefer reading people claim something is made with tongue firmly in cheek to the whole Post-MST3K "LOLS itz unintentional comedy, dumb filmmakers, Im much smarter!!" scpiel so I'm glad to read your thoughts on Taken, but I have to say it didn't strike me that way personally. It's possible I missed a lot, it's been a while since I saw Taken and I don't particularly plan to see it again, but it just seemed like a "paranoid dad fantasy" to me in the same way, say, Red Dawn was a "red paranoia fantasy". I know Luc Besson co-wrote it which kind of makes the potentially xenophobic aspects questionable, and he is also a creative force on The Transporter films, which I do think have a lot of subtle(ish ) meta humour based on the conventions of action movies (particularly homoeroticism), but I didn't really see any of that in Taken. And I don't really know why Holly Valance's role would be particularly tongue-in-cheek; she's an actress turned singer turned actress again, she's an easy casting choice. Surely even in our accelerated culture casting a singer who hit her peak some six years earlier doesn't count as some kind of retro-gag?

Still, I'm willing to admit it could have all just gone over my head. I wouldn't be the only one though; there's a pretty funny video out there where US critic Gene Shalit says that Taken is "an important film" which is "a wake-up call to parents". Still, personally I don't blame him for taking it at face value.

But back to the main point; I agree that Harry Brown could have worked with an injection of the kind of dark but lively humour that ran through the Dirty Harry and Death Wish films and many of their "disciples", but I found the story and confrontations gripping enough (in a way that I didn't find Taken) that I didn't mind.

[Jim]

A most peculiar little film; pantomime-grim with all the subtlety (and for that matter, ability) of Legz Akimbo theatre company. Frequently hilariously over the top, and evidently crazed in its puerile determination to demonstrate that things are a bit off and there are all sorts of naughty people around. Not sure whether it should be admired for being quite so childish, or pitied for the same reason. A bit poor.

[DLibrasnow]

The movie is getting a U.S. release on Blu-ray:

http://www.blu-ray.c.../?id=4775&page=

Harry Brown Blu-ray Announced

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has announced Harry Brown for Blu-ray release on August 31. This British crime thriller/revenge story, starring Michael Caine, got a limited theatrical release in April, and was described by film critic Roger Ebert as being "poised somewhere between Death Wish and Gran Torino."

Special features include:
Filmmaker and cast commentary
Deleted scenes
movieIQ+sync
BD-Live

[jrcjohnny99]

Perhaps some people overpraised/were too forgiving of Harry Brown, including me, but good lord Outlaw is just dire (yes, yes IMO); unexciting, uncompelling and just plain unentertaining. I certainly wouldn't have said it was more "thoughtful" than Harry Brown, or anything else for that matter.

Still in the interest of diplomacy I am greatful Outlaw exists just for this
(WARNING: Not for kids)

"Taxi Driver came out...got -ed"

I thought "Harry Brown" was a very strong picture, certainly it was hardly subtle, but Caine was strong and as far as British thrillers go, i thought it was much better than avaerage.
I havent seen 'Outlaw" yet but i did just get it sent over on DVD so i'll be watching it shortly/......