103 replies to this topic

[00Twelve]

I don't buy the statement that Bond would have done anything for Vesper. Most anything yes, but not treason. He wouldn't have gone along with that and once he learned of her betrayal, he would never have looked at her the same way again. Vesper knew that and she couldn't live with that knowledge--or the knowledge that she had betrayed him. That is why she committed suicide. Sure Mr. White said if Vesper hadn't have killed herself then Quantum would have had him too. He--and Quantum--probably believed it. But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country. He probably would have tried to get Vesper out of the mess she was in the best he could because he did love her, but their romantic relationship would have been over.

Completely agreed. I always thought that the Bond/Vesper relationship ended the moment that he peered around the corner and saw her handing the money to Gettler. Sure, he still had feelings for her, and he tried to save her because of "the big picture", but I would say that his efforts to save her from Gettler and his henchmen was at least halfway motivated by the need to secure her to obtain information about who she was feeding information to and why.

There was definitely some lingering romance there, though. His face clearly displays that as he's trying to rip open the elevator.

And, er, the entire desperate attempt to revive her.

[tdalton]

I don't buy the statement that Bond would have done anything for Vesper. Most anything yes, but not treason. He wouldn't have gone along with that and once he learned of her betrayal, he would never have looked at her the same way again. Vesper knew that and she couldn't live with that knowledge--or the knowledge that she had betrayed him. That is why she committed suicide. Sure Mr. White said if Vesper hadn't have killed herself then Quantum would have had him too. He--and Quantum--probably believed it. But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country. He probably would have tried to get Vesper out of the mess she was in the best he could because he did love her, but their romantic relationship would have been over.

Completely agreed. I always thought that the Bond/Vesper relationship ended the moment that he peered around the corner and saw her handing the money to Gettler. Sure, he still had feelings for her, and he tried to save her because of "the big picture", but I would say that his efforts to save her from Gettler and his henchmen was at least halfway motivated by the need to secure her to obtain information about who she was feeding information to and why.

There was definitely some lingering romance there, though. His face clearly displays that as he's trying to rip open the elevator.

Of course there's some lingering romance there, but I also think that it's clear that Bond and Vesper as a couple is clearly over as well. I don't think that it was ever possible that QUANTUM would have been able to get their claws into Bond like they had with Vesper and Corinne, and I don't see Bond selling out his employers and his country just for Vesper (even though he had technically resigned at that point). I think that Bond would have turned her over to MI6, perhaps conducted the interrogation himself, and then would have gone after QUANTUM in a very similar fashion to what we saw in QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

[Tybre]

I don't buy the statement that Bond would have done anything for Vesper. Most anything yes, but not treason. He wouldn't have gone along with that and once he learned of her betrayal, he would never have looked at her the same way again. Vesper knew that and she couldn't live with that knowledge--or the knowledge that she had betrayed him. That is why she committed suicide. Sure Mr. White said if Vesper hadn't have killed herself then Quantum would have had him too. He--and Quantum--probably believed it. But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country. He probably would have tried to get Vesper out of the mess she was in the best he could because he did love her, but their romantic relationship would have been over.

Completely agreed. I always thought that the Bond/Vesper relationship ended the moment that he peered around the corner and saw her handing the money to Gettler. Sure, he still had feelings for her, and he tried to save her because of "the big picture", but I would say that his efforts to save her from Gettler and his henchmen was at least halfway motivated by the need to secure her to obtain information about who she was feeding information to and why.

There was definitely some lingering romance there, though. His face clearly displays that as he's trying to rip open the elevator.

Of course there's some lingering romance there, but I also think that it's clear that Bond and Vesper as a couple is clearly over as well. I don't think that it was ever possible that QUANTUM would have been able to get their claws into Bond like they had with Vesper and Corinne, and I don't see Bond selling out his employers and his country just for Vesper (even though he had technically resigned at that point). I think that Bond would have turned her over to MI6, perhaps conducted the interrogation himself, and then would have gone after QUANTUM in a very similar fashion to what we saw in QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

I think maybe, with enough time, Bond could have been turned. It would have been a very slow process, most likely, and it may have even required Quantum to find someone else, a Tracy-like figure, if Vesper couldn't quite manage. But then, White's comment is really just more of a taunt. If he can rile up Bond and M, keep them on their toes and in the dark, well, he can buy time to do exactly what he did.

[tdalton]

I don't buy the statement that Bond would have done anything for Vesper. Most anything yes, but not treason. He wouldn't have gone along with that and once he learned of her betrayal, he would never have looked at her the same way again. Vesper knew that and she couldn't live with that knowledge--or the knowledge that she had betrayed him. That is why she committed suicide. Sure Mr. White said if Vesper hadn't have killed herself then Quantum would have had him too. He--and Quantum--probably believed it. But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country. He probably would have tried to get Vesper out of the mess she was in the best he could because he did love her, but their romantic relationship would have been over.

Completely agreed. I always thought that the Bond/Vesper relationship ended the moment that he peered around the corner and saw her handing the money to Gettler. Sure, he still had feelings for her, and he tried to save her because of "the big picture", but I would say that his efforts to save her from Gettler and his henchmen was at least halfway motivated by the need to secure her to obtain information about who she was feeding information to and why.

There was definitely some lingering romance there, though. His face clearly displays that as he's trying to rip open the elevator.

Of course there's some lingering romance there, but I also think that it's clear that Bond and Vesper as a couple is clearly over as well. I don't think that it was ever possible that QUANTUM would have been able to get their claws into Bond like they had with Vesper and Corinne, and I don't see Bond selling out his employers and his country just for Vesper (even though he had technically resigned at that point). I think that Bond would have turned her over to MI6, perhaps conducted the interrogation himself, and then would have gone after QUANTUM in a very similar fashion to what we saw in QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

I think maybe, with enough time, Bond could have been turned. It would have been a very slow process, most likely, and it may have even required Quantum to find someone else, a Tracy-like figure, if Vesper couldn't quite manage. But then, White's comment is really just more of a taunt. If he can rile up Bond and M, keep them on their toes and in the dark, well, he can buy time to do exactly what he did.

I think that you're right about the comment being a taunt of M and Bond. That's all that I really read into that comment, as I don't think that there's any scenario that would've turned Bond towards QUANTUM. I think that Bond would have done a lot of things for Vesper, which we witnessed when he resigned from the service to be with her, but I just can't make the stretch to say that he'd commit treason for her. He's been in service to the British government for far too long for that to really be an option, IMO.

[double o ego]

Say what you want about Bond but his loyalty to his country is unwavering. That's part of the overall appeal of his character. White and anyone else can say what they like, the fact of the matter is, Bond would never ever betray his country. He'd die first.

[Colossus]

Didn't they say he will be growing in each movie or something? Like at the end of CR when many thought he "becomes Bond" only to have that rug pulled from our feet in QOS i'm kind of wary of this ending too but hopefully you're right.

[havok_007]

Didn't they say he will be growing in each movie or something? Like at the end of CR when many thought he "becomes Bond" only to have that rug pulled from our feet in QOS i'm kind of wary of this ending too but hopefully you're right.

Yeah, as great as they were I hope they scrap the CR/QOS plot/villains.
Bond has become Bond, thats refreshing to know. Now hes ready to go out into a new adventure, new villains, woman, locations and away from the last two movies.

[00Twelve]

Mmm, I still think Quantum holds a myriad of possibilities as a multi-film villainous organization. I hope it doesn't disappear, at least not for more than one movie if that.

[Licence_007]

The one thing that worries me about Quantum is that after all the build-up we're going to get, I can't shake the feeling that we'll all be left feeling underwhelmed when they are fully revealed.

[DR76]

But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country.

I don't know. I think that anyone is capable of just about anything. I bet Vesper thought she was incapable of betraying her country . . . until she did for the sake of someone she cared about.

[blueman]

The one thing that worries me about Quantum is that after all the build-up we're going to get, I can't shake the feeling that we'll all be left feeling underwhelmed when they are fully revealed.

Hopefully that's what this new chap Morgan is for, to write up a definitive Quantum denouement.

[baerrtt]

But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country.

I don't know. I think that anyone is capable of just about anything. I bet Vesper thought she was incapable of betraying her country . . . until she did for the sake of someone she cared about.

The thing is despite his catalogue of character flaws Bond has always been written as pretty much incapable of turning even when he has motive(like his own life being endangered). Tortured for 14 months in DAD and not saying a damn thing to his Korean captors, the 'ball-whacking' experience at the hands of Le Chiffre in CR etc. He has no personal ties back home and therefore has nothing to lose by basically guaranteeing his own potential death at the hands of an enemy.

[DR76]

The thing is despite his catalogue of character flaws Bond has always been written as pretty much incapable of turning even when he has motive(like his own life being endangered).

This strikes me as unreal even for fictional characters. I don't know. I may not have cared when I was younger. But now, I find it disturbing that we're supposed to believe that Bond is incapable of being turned. It makes his character almost seem one-dimensional. And while the majority of Bond fans may like this - and I'm sure they do - I'm beginning to feel uneasy about this.

Edited by DR76, 02 July 2009 - 01:08 AM.

[baerrtt]

The thing is despite his catalogue of character flaws Bond has always been written as pretty much incapable of turning even when he has motive(like his own life being endangered).

This strikes me as unreal even for fictional characters. I don't know. I may not have cared when I was younger. But now, I find it disturbing that we're supposed to believe that Bond is incapable of being turned. It makes his character almost seem one-dimensional. And while the majority of Bond fans may like this - and I'm sure they do - I'm beginning to feel uneasy about this.

Why should it make you feel uneasy? The character's no role model as fictional heroes go but if there's one admirable trait written in him is that despite his problems and issues with his job and country at times or the fact that he does get scared when powerless (as in CR) betraying the reason why he risks his life isn't worth it. He's a man who knows that what he does is 'evil' on some level (the killing) and he has to ensure that he doesn't fall further into the abyss and 'turning' no matter how tempting it may be is the abyss.

[dee-bee-five]

Oddly, Fleming never makes any association between Vesper's death and Bond's attitude to women. Strange, that.

So the annual visit Bond makes to her grave that Fleming reveals to us in OHMSS is meaningless, is it? What - did he just toss it in to make up the word count for his publishers...? Or do you think, perhaps, that it's possible, just possible, that Fleming was trying to tell us something there...?




Can we, therefore, leave the Sigmund Freud pretentious psycho-babble alone, please.

Yes, we don't want the series developing three dimensional characters, now, do we?

As for the topic in question - I thought the ending of QoS was perfect. Easily the best ending of the series. By a long chalk...

[00Twelve]

Oddly, Fleming never makes any association between Vesper's death and Bond's attitude to women. Strange, that.

So the annual visit Bond makes to her grave that Fleming reveals to us in OHMSS is meaningless, is it? What - did he just toss it in to make up the word count for his publishers...? Or do you think, perhaps, that it's possible, just possible, that Fleming was trying to tell us something there...?

For that matter, his skipping of "La Vie En Rose" on the record in Tiffany's apartment in DAF because "it had memories for him." And in the very novel in which he starts to really fall in love with another woman after Vesper. Hmm...

[David Schofield]

Oddly, Fleming never makes any association between Vesper's death and Bond's attitude to women. Strange, that.

So the annual visit Bond makes to her grave that Fleming reveals to us in OHMSS is meaningless, is it? What - did he just toss it in to make up the word count for his publishers...? Or do you think, perhaps, that it's possible, just possible, that Fleming was trying to tell us something there...?

For that matter, his skipping of "La Vie En Rose" on the record in Tiffany's apartment in DAF because "it had memories for him." And in the very novel in which he starts to really fall in love with another woman after Vesper. Hmm...

But what do either of those events have to do with how Vesper's death might have effected Bond's attitude toward women which was my statement?

Oddly, Fleming never makes any association between Vesper's death and Bond's attitude to women. Strange, that.

So the annual visit Bond makes to her grave that Fleming reveals to us in OHMSS is meaningless, is it? What - did he just toss it in to make up the word count for his publishers...? Or do you think, perhaps, that it's possible, just possible, that Fleming was trying to tell us something there...?




Can we, therefore, leave the Sigmund Freud pretentious psycho-babble alone, please.

Yes, we don't want the series developing three dimensional characters, now, do we?

As for the topic in question - I thought the ending of QoS was perfect. Easily the best ending of the series. By a long chalk...

Sure, Fleming was trying to tell uis something - but I'm not sure it has anything to do with Vesper death having shaped Bond's attitude toward women, which was my statement...

Hey, maybe Fleming left all mention of Vesper out of the first post CR novel - the time when Bond was most likely to be effected by the death - for the publishers, too...?

And developing three dimensional characters is one thing.

Contrivance and melodrama, and cliched lines are not often considered to be a successful way to achieve that, however.

[dee-bee-five]

Sure, Fleming was trying to tell uis something - but I'm not sure it has anything to do with Vesper death having shaped Bond's attitude toward women, which was my statement...


I would suggest that was exactly what he was doing.


And developing three dimensional characters is one thing. Contrivance and melodrama, and cliched lines are not often considered to be a successful way to achieve that, however.

I quite agree. But since I don't feel the sublime script of Quantum of Solace features any, I don't consider your argument applies here. In fact, for a maintstream action-adventure, I should think QoS is pretty unique in how little melodrama and cliché there is...

[David Schofield]

Sure, Fleming was trying to tell uis something - but I'm not sure it has anything to do with Vesper death having shaped Bond's attitude toward women, which was my statement...


I would suggest that was exactly what he was doing.


And developing three dimensional characters is one thing. Contrivance and melodrama, and cliched lines are not often considered to be a successful way to achieve that, however.

I quite agree. But since I don't feel the sublime script of Quantum of Solace features any, I don't consider your argument applies here. In fact, for a maintstream action-adventure, I should think QoS is pretty unique in how little melodrama and cliché there is...

We'll have to continue to disagree on Fleming's intention that Vesper's death shaped Bond's attitude to women. As I alluded in a post above, Craig-Bond is an equally cold toward women before Vesper as after: Fleming's Bond is similiarly cold with his recollections about the start, progress and decline of love affairs. Pretty passionless stuff, IMO, even before Vesper?

And, oh, I have no problem with the QOS dialogue and my admiration for the bulk of it probably matches your own. However, the ending... Well, had Brozza said I never left, dropped the necklace in the snow and wandered off into beautifully photographed shadows with a pout, I'd HATE to witness the fire-fight of vitriol on CBN...

[dee-bee-five]

Sure, Fleming was trying to tell uis something - but I'm not sure it has anything to do with Vesper death having shaped Bond's attitude toward women, which was my statement...


I would suggest that was exactly what he was doing.


And developing three dimensional characters is one thing. Contrivance and melodrama, and cliched lines are not often considered to be a successful way to achieve that, however.

I quite agree. But since I don't feel the sublime script of Quantum of Solace features any, I don't consider your argument applies here. In fact, for a maintstream action-adventure, I should think QoS is pretty unique in how little melodrama and cliché there is...

We'll have to continue to disagree on Fleming's intention that Vesper's death shaped Bond's attitude to women. As I alluded in a post above, Craig-Bond is an equally cold toward women before Vesper as after: Fleming's Bond is similiarly cold with his recollections about the start, progress and decline of love affairs. Pretty passionless stuff, IMO, even before Vesper?


I can see your point, but why I think the passage in OHMSS is significant is that it was written roughly ten years after CR. Ten years in which Bond had had and/or loved lots of other memorable women. Hell, he even lived with Tiffany. And yet he goes back to Vesper's grave once a year and the poignancy of that relationship haunts him still. In other words, Vesper left such a mark that no woman has measured up to her since. It mirrors Fleming's own attitude after his mother brought an end to his first great love affair and he vowed to treat women like an expesive glass of champage thereafter; something to be enjoyed, but easily discarded. Now, obviously, what Fleming seems to have been trying to do in that passage is to tell us that no woman can match up to Vesper - until Tracy, thus setting up the idea that Tracy is even more important than Vesper. He takes this further in YOLT when Bond goes to pieces after Tracy's death - more psychobabble for you there, I'm afraid - which he didn't do after Vesper's, thus underlining that Tracy was even more significant to Bond than Vesper (in this, I've always felt Fleming failed because for me Tracy ain't no Vesper!) But what I'm getting at is that Fleming was using Vesper as the yardstick against whom Bond measured all the subsequent women in his life, which is why I believe his relationship with Vesper and the way it ended did colour Bond's view of women.



And, oh, I have no problem with the QOS dialogue and my admiration for the bulk of it probably matches your own. However, the ending... Well, had Brozza said I never left, dropped the necklace in the snow and wandered off into beautifully photographed shadows with a pout, I'd HATE to witness the fire-fight of vitriol on CBN...

While I think the ending of QoS is magnificent, I have always thought it was as much in the playing and direction as the writing. And I think you've hit the nail on the head about what the reaction would have been if Brosnan had played that scene. I've always thought that the infamous (on CBn) moment in TWINE when Bond touches the screen tenderly would get a different reaction if Craig had done it. For the Brosnan-bashers, it represents all that's wrong with the Brosnan era; had Craig done it, the same people would be praising him the the skies for his acting. And, d'you know what?, in reality, I doubt Craig would have played it much differently.

[David Schofield]

I can see your point, but why I think the passage in OHMSS is significant is that it was written roughly ten years after CR. Ten years in which Bond had had and/or loved lots of other memorable women. Hell, he even lived with Tiffany. And yet he goes back to Vesper's grave once a year and the poignancy of that relationship haunts him still. In other words, Vesper left such a mark that no woman has measured up to her since. It mirrors Fleming's own attitude after his mother brought an end to his first great love affair and he vowed to treat women like an expesive glass of champage thereafter; something to be enjoyed, but easily discarded. Now, obviously, what Fleming seems to have been trying to do in that passage is to tell us that no woman can match up to Vesper - until Tracy, thus setting up the idea that Tracy is even more important than Vesper. He takes this further in YOLT when Bond goes to pieces after Tracy's death - more psychobabble for you there, I'm afraid - which he didn't do after Vesper's, thus underlining that Tracy was even more significant to Bond than Vesper (in this, I've always felt Fleming failed because for me Tracy ain't no Vesper!) But what I'm getting at is that Fleming was using Vesper as the yardstick against whom Bond measured all the subsequent women in his life, which is why I believe his relationship with Vesper and the way it ended did colour Bond's view of women.

Fair points all.

Of course, I guess I'm looking at if from a short term point of view, emphasised by Fleming Bond's dismissal of Vesper's treachery in his thoughts at the end of CR and her further not crossing his mind in LALD. I believe that Fleming CREATED Bond as a fairly heartless, ruthless lover type (in his own image as a younger man, as you suggest) regardless of Vesper who was, ultimately, a women deluded by the Russians into spying against her country.

Which is why I am disappointed by the Craig-Bond of QOS - in the immediate aftermath of CR - becomes far more emotionally effected than the Fleming original. As I pointed out in my original posts, I maintain that this is a result of QOS being made in a much more touchy-feely, emotionally sensative time. Whatever, I do not believe that it mirrors Fleming's intention, at least not in the short term...

Long term, I pretty much agree. But then, I have always felt Fleming has Bond age and experience and learn and change through the books. I have never accepted Bond is a permanent 38. Like all of us, he grows older and, er, wiser...?

[00Twelve]

I can see your point, but why I think the passage in OHMSS is significant is that it was written roughly ten years after CR. Ten years in which Bond had had and/or loved lots of other memorable women. Hell, he even lived with Tiffany. And yet he goes back to Vesper's grave once a year and the poignancy of that relationship haunts him still. In other words, Vesper left such a mark that no woman has measured up to her since. It mirrors Fleming's own attitude after his mother brought an end to his first great love affair and he vowed to treat women like an expesive glass of champage thereafter; something to be enjoyed, but easily discarded. Now, obviously, what Fleming seems to have been trying to do in that passage is to tell us that no woman can match up to Vesper - until Tracy, thus setting up the idea that Tracy is even more important than Vesper. He takes this further in YOLT when Bond goes to pieces after Tracy's death - more psychobabble for you there, I'm afraid - which he didn't do after Vesper's, thus underlining that Tracy was even more significant to Bond than Vesper (in this, I've always felt Fleming failed because for me Tracy ain't no Vesper!) But what I'm getting at is that Fleming was using Vesper as the yardstick against whom Bond measured all the subsequent women in his life, which is why I believe his relationship with Vesper and the way it ended did colour Bond's view of women.

Fair points all.

Of course, I guess I'm looking at if from a short term point of view, emphasised by Fleming Bond's dismissal of Vesper's treachery in his thoughts at the end of CR and her further not crossing his mind in LALD. I believe that Fleming CREATED Bond as a fairly heartless, ruthless lover type (in his own image as a younger man, as you suggest) regardless of Vesper who was, ultimately, a women deluded by the Russians into spying against her country.

Which is why I am disappointed by the Craig-Bond of QOS - in the immediate aftermath of CR - becomes far more emotionally effected than the Fleming original. As I pointed out in my original posts, I maintain that this is a result of QOS being made in a much more touchy-feely, emotionally sensative time. Whatever, I do not believe that it mirrors Fleming's intention, at least not in the short term...

Long term, I pretty much agree. But then, I have always felt Fleming has Bond age and experience and learn and change through the books. I have never accepted Bond is a permanent 38. Like all of us, he grows older and, er, wiser...?

One could argue that since QOS takes place immediately after the events of Casino Royale (as opposed to six months later, as in LALD), his grief over her death and betrayal is understandably a little closer to the surface. It would be conjecture to suggest that Bond either did or didn't have a more "visible" tough time over Vesper for a short while before the events of LALD, because we simply don't have that information.
But considering that he did apparently continue to visit Vesper's grave periodically for a number of years, and that he ran away from anything that reminded him of her (the record I mentioned from DAF), it would seem more natural to assume that he was indeed changed somewhat. We just don't have the luxury of seeing how he handled the loss in the literary canon during the (in comparison with QOS, much longer) period of time between CR and LALD.

[double o ego]

The thing is despite his catalogue of character flaws Bond has always been written as pretty much incapable of turning even when he has motive(like his own life being endangered).

This strikes me as unreal even for fictional characters. I don't know. I may not have cared when I was younger. But now, I find it disturbing that we're supposed to believe that Bond is incapable of being turned. It makes his character almost seem one-dimensional. And while the majority of Bond fans may like this - and I'm sure they do - I'm beginning to feel uneasy about this.

Why?

People take sianide (sp?) thus killing themselves. If Bond is going to die, he won't die by ending his own life, he'll go out like a man and have someone else do it as has nearly been the case since day dot. Sure, he'll stall and try and worm his way out, self preservation is a natural instinct but given his job he knows the stakes and every adventure he's on is potentially fatal. To me, it's more realsitc and not so 1-dimensional for him not to turn. Bond may be flawed but he's man enough not to punk out and betray his country.

[Red Barchetta]

Oddly, Fleming never makes any association between Vesper's death and Bond's attitude to women. Strange, that.

So the annual visit Bond makes to her grave that Fleming reveals to us in OHMSS is meaningless, is it? What - did he just toss it in to make up the word count for his publishers...? Or do you think, perhaps, that it's possible, just possible, that Fleming was trying to tell us something there...?




Can we, therefore, leave the Sigmund Freud pretentious psycho-babble alone, please.

Yes, we don't want the series developing three dimensional characters, now, do we?

As for the topic in question - I thought the ending of QoS was perfect. Easily the best ending of the series. By a long chalk...

I quite agree. And the way Bond left Greene for death was a classic moment for 007!

[Mr. Blofeld]

Oddly, Fleming never makes any association between Vesper's death and Bond's attitude to women. Strange, that.

So the annual visit Bond makes to her grave that Fleming reveals to us in OHMSS is meaningless, is it? What - did he just toss it in to make up the word count for his publishers...? Or do you think, perhaps, that it's possible, just possible, that Fleming was trying to tell us something there...?




Can we, therefore, leave the Sigmund Freud pretentious psycho-babble alone, please.

Yes, we don't want the series developing three dimensional characters, now, do we?

As for the topic in question - I thought the ending of QoS was perfect. Easily the best ending of the series. By a long chalk...

I quite agree. And the way Bond left Greene for dead was a classic moment for 007!

Yep; "Good-bye, Mr. Greene" is a classic line, mate.

[volante]

Bond uses people. He has an objective and the ends always justify the means.

Greene, said goodbye to Camille knowing she would be killed.
Bond does exactly the same to Greene.

[DaveBond21]

I quite agree. And the way Bond left Greene for dead was a classic moment for 007!


Yep; "Good-bye, Mr. Greene" is a classic line, mate

Yes, this moment is underrated by some of my friends who wanted to see Bond shooting Greene dead. However, this is a much nastier and more appropriate death for the slimy villain...

[sharpshooter]

I quite agree. And the way Bond left Greene for dead was a classic moment for 007!


Yep; "Good-bye, Mr. Greene" is a classic line, mate

Yes, this moment is underrated by some of my friends who wanted to see Bond shooting Greene dead. However, this is a much nastier and more appropriate death for the slimy villain...

It's right up there with the best villain deaths. What is left up to the imagination or alluded to is often scarier and more effective than full on obvious gore.

[tdalton]

I quite agree. And the way Bond left Greene for dead was a classic moment for 007!


Yep; "Good-bye, Mr. Greene" is a classic line, mate

Yes, this moment is underrated by some of my friends who wanted to see Bond shooting Greene dead. However, this is a much nastier and more appropriate death for the slimy villain...

It's right up there with the best villain deaths. What is left up to the imagination or alluded to is often scarier and more effective than full on obvious gore.

Agreed as well. A fantastic ending to a fantastic Bond film. It's actually one of the more chilling ends that a Bond villain has faced simply because Bond leaves him with the small sliver of hope that he may survive (no matter how unrealistic that hope may be). Also, Bond leaving Greene to die in the desert is much more horrendous than anything Bond could have done to him himself. Greene's demise was, most likely, slow and agonizing, whereas anything that Bond could have done to him would have been seen as quick and merciful by comparison.

[Harry Potter]

Can you imagine the pain Green was in and having to drink the oil