Perfect Ending - Becoming Bond
#1
Posted 24 June 2009 - 11:03 PM
At the very end of Quantum of Solace, I think we really get to see the real James Bond. Everything he has learned over the past 2 adventures has finally sunk in. Trust no-one. And always think of the big picture.
Sure, we were all willing him to kill Yusuf, and you can see in 007's eyes that he really wants to pull the trigger (something he would have done at the end of CR). But his duty and his sense of the bigger picture (aided by advice from M and Mathis) help him to remain professional. The way he deals with Corrine and then Yusuf is Fleming's Bond. It's the Bond we know and love. Even M is surprised to find that Yusuf is still alive. On a side note, I wonder what Bond physically did to Yusuf (if anything?)
This is a professional who is motivated by his duty. As he walks off into the snow he tells M that he has never been away. But I think this is the moment he really becomes the complete character. Bond is back, and he is ready for his next mission.
What will it be?
The only certainty is James Bond Will Return
#2
Posted 24 June 2009 - 11:40 PM
**Spoilers** (although surely everyone has seen the movie by now?)
At the very end of Quantum of Solace, I think we really get to see the real James Bond. Everything he has learned over the past 2 adventures has finally sunk in. Trust no-one. And always think of the big picture.
Sure, we were all willing him to kill Yusuf, and you can see in 007's eyes that he really wants to pull the trigger (something he would have done at the end of CR). But his duty and his sense of the bigger picture (aided by advice from M and Mathis) help him to remain professional. The way he deals with Corrine and then Yusuf is Fleming's Bond. It's the Bond we know and love. Even M is surprised to find that Yusuf is still alive. On a side note, I wonder what Bond physically did to Yusuf (if anything?)
This is a professional who is motivated by his duty. As he walks off into the snow he tells M that he has never been away. But I think this is the moment he really becomes the complete character. Bond is back, and he is ready for his next mission.
What will it be?
The only certainty is James Bond Will Return
I'm with you on this one. I love the ending of QoS. Comes full circle. I also like that he doesn't kill Greene. Pretty unconventional ending for a Bond film, and IMO, works.
#3
Posted 24 June 2009 - 11:47 PM
#4
Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:00 AM
I loved the film...
But he did leave Greene to die... doesn't that count as killing him?
#5
Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:06 AM
I also like that he doesn't kill Greene. Pretty unconventional ending for a Bond film, and IMO, works.
Me too, although of course he leaves him to die (or be killed).
#6
Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:13 AM
#7
Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:29 AM
#8
Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:38 AM
B., don't be mean now...
I was being honest, though.
I really did enjoy the ending.
Actually, I quite enjoyed the film for what it was. Forster's style had a lot to do with my liking of it.
Edited by B. Brown, 25 June 2009 - 12:39 AM.
#9
Posted 25 June 2009 - 12:57 AM
This is a small departure from the literary canon; not necessarily that Bond didn't come to this point, but that it didn't happen within our view. It was a nice development to see.
Regarding Bond's dealings with the villains-- absolutely perfect. Greene's disposal is hands down my favorite yet in the series. Though it never really happened in the novels, I got the sense that Bond's treatment of Greene is something that he certainly would have done in Fleming's day. Same with Yusef. Corinne's departure, out of focus, with her haunting whispered "thank you," was one of the most chilling moments in the series for me. The image of Bond waiting for them in the dark hearkened straight back to the first scene with Dryden in CR.
Everything from Greene to the necklace in the snow was a thoroughly fantastic ending. Thanks for the thread, Dave.
#10
Posted 25 June 2009 - 02:49 AM
I like to think he at least hit him with the gun or punched himI wonder what Bond physically did to Yusuf (if anything?)
#11
Posted 25 June 2009 - 03:25 AM
The Bond who always wins and does everything perfectly got to be rather tiresome and the flawed Bond who was always getting betrayed got old quickly as well.
The one learning how to balance everything has been the best thing that's happened to the series in years.
Maybe for Craig's last turn as Bond he can become the fully-developed character, but not just yet.
#12
Posted 25 June 2009 - 03:28 AM
I certainly hope this doesn't lead back to "the Bond we know and love." I've rather liked watching the character develop.
The Bond who always wins and does everything perfectly got to be rather tiresome and the flawed Bond who was always getting betrayed got old quickly as well.
The one learning how to balance everything has been the best thing that's happened to the series in years.
Maybe for Craig's last turn as Bond he can become the fully-developed character, but not just yet.
Show us an LALD (literary) style Bond; very much developed and similar to the Bond we've come to know, but still rough around the edges? Yeah, I could go for that.
#13
Posted 25 June 2009 - 05:03 AM
Bravo. Craig's too good at the early Fleming Bond to loosen up yet. No need for a chip on the shoulder, but he's still a dangerous man who still makes a headstrong decision here and there that can get him in trouble (with the villains, not M).I certainly hope this doesn't lead back to "the Bond we know and love." I've rather liked watching the character develop.
The Bond who always wins and does everything perfectly got to be rather tiresome and the flawed Bond who was always getting betrayed got old quickly as well.
The one learning how to balance everything has been the best thing that's happened to the series in years.
Maybe for Craig's last turn as Bond he can become the fully-developed character, but not just yet.
Show us an LALD (literary) style Bond; very much developed and similar to the Bond we've come to know, but still rough around the edges? Yeah, I could go for that.
#14
Posted 25 June 2009 - 05:12 AM
Craig's too good at the early Fleming Bond to loosen up yet
I agree. Obviously he has learned a lot, and maybe Bond 23 can feature a little less chastising from M, but I hope the potrayal of Bond remains the same.
Daniel Craig joked that Bond 23 will feature 007 lying on a beach, sipping cocktails, and even though he was half-joking, I wonder if we are due to get Daniel's "Thunderball" for the next one.
#15
Posted 25 June 2009 - 08:30 AM
His line, "I never left", easily is one of the best quotes in the franchise.
#16
Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:06 AM
I like the ending of QOS, but the matter of facts is that already "we really get to see the real James Bond" at the end of CR (that was what Campbell intended, and even the tagline for Craig's debut announced this); just like Bond choose to not kill Mr. White in the last scene to allow a further interrogation, he does the same with Yusef at QOS's finale, so it's a kind of a repetition, at least to what 007's behavior concerns. Even more so, if they would have kept the original ending- with the 'Bond, James Bond' line included- it would be almost the same.**Spoilers** (although surely everyone has seen the movie by now?)
At the very end of Quantum of Solace, I think we really get to see the real James Bond. Everything he has learned over the past 2 adventures has finally sunk in. Trust no-one. And always think of the big picture.
Sure, we were all willing him to kill Yusuf, and you can see in 007's eyes that he really wants to pull the trigger (something he would have done at the end of CR).
Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 25 June 2009 - 09:21 AM.
#17
Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:26 AM
Also, the book had the suicide note. We didn't get that bit of crucial info from Vesper's POV in the movies until QOS was over. Bond's biggest lesson wasn't how to spare a baddie for the sake of the bigger picture, it was gaining his quantum of solace about Vesper.
And I'm sure you're aware of this, Mr. Beech, but Bond didn't spare Yusef because of the bigger picture (which is EXACTLY why he spared White)-- he spared Yusef specifically because he realized the futility of avenging Vesper by killing him. It was a satisfying bonus that he got to capture Yusef and MI6 will get further info about Quantum from him. That's a different lesson than what Bond learned at the end of CR. It's not that Bond's totally complete now (at least to me)...it's that there's always room for more development.
Now, I suppose, the gunbarrel signifies that Bond's more or less "complete," but it would be silly for any of us to assume there'll be no further character development with him (it would also mean a waste of an excellent actor).
#18
Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:42 AM
The perfect ending would have been after a close up of Craig's face on the boat at the end of CR just after he's said the "Bitch is dead". Straight into the titles and the Bond theme.
Then the next film - that became QOS - should have started with Bond beginning a new mission with no reference to Vesper. Bit like Fleming, eh?
Do we only get this touchy-feely garbage about Bond's feelings and his reaction to Vesper's death and the need to find she didn't betray him after all just because the film was made more than 50 years after the book?
We've all gone bloody soft. Tony sodding Blair.
I mean, where have all the rock-hard WW2 heroes gone - to be replaced by narcassistic gym rats?
"I never left"?! You ponce. You sodding drama queen. What's that, a left over P & W line of smugness intended for Brozza?
#19
Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:48 AM
#20
Posted 25 June 2009 - 02:55 PM
I agree with you and the OP wholedheartedly! My only point of disagreement is in characterizing Vesper's suicide as "selfish." Yes, her death did tear Bond apart, but I didn't get the sense it was selfishly motivated. As Mr. White told Bond, if Vesper hadn't killed herself, Quantum would have had him, too. I've always believed that at least part of Vesper's reason for killing herself was to protect Bond from himself. Mr. White said Bond would have done anything for her, and I believe that's true . . . to Bond's own detriment. Vesper could see that, and she knew if she killed herself, she would spare him that choice.I thought it was an honorable and bold choice to give Bond the moment he never had in the literary series-- specifically, the moment Bond realizes that Vesper killed herself to protect him. Sure, her suicide was still selfish and she still tore his heart asunder, but he realized she really did love him and wasn't just stringing him along the whole time for the money.
This is a small departure from the literary canon; not necessarily that Bond didn't come to this point, but that it didn't happen within our view. It was a nice development to see.
Regarding Bond's dealings with the villains-- absolutely perfect. Greene's disposal is hands down my favorite yet in the series. Though it never really happened in the novels, I got the sense that Bond's treatment of Greene is something that he certainly would have done in Fleming's day. Same with Yusef. Corinne's departure, out of focus, with her haunting whispered "thank you," was one of the most chilling moments in the series for me. The image of Bond waiting for them in the dark hearkened straight back to the first scene with Dryden in CR.
Everything from Greene to the necklace in the snow was a thoroughly fantastic ending. Thanks for the thread, Dave.
#21
Posted 25 June 2009 - 03:01 PM
Well, sure. I kind of meant that from Bond's perspective. Should've been more clear about that!I agree with you and the OP wholedheartedly! My only point of disagreement is in characterizing Vesper's suicide as "selfish." Yes, her death did tear Bond apart, but I didn't get the sense it was selfishly motivated. As Mr. White told Bond, if Vesper hadn't killed herself, Quantum would have had him, too. I've always believed that at least part of Vesper's reason for killing herself was to protect Bond from himself. Mr. White said Bond would have done anything for her, and I believe that's true . . . to Bond's own detriment. Vesper could see that, and she knew if she killed herself, she would spare him that choice.I thought it was an honorable and bold choice to give Bond the moment he never had in the literary series-- specifically, the moment Bond realizes that Vesper killed herself to protect him. Sure, her suicide was still selfish and she still tore his heart asunder, but he realized she really did love him and wasn't just stringing him along the whole time for the money.
This is a small departure from the literary canon; not necessarily that Bond didn't come to this point, but that it didn't happen within our view. It was a nice development to see.
Regarding Bond's dealings with the villains-- absolutely perfect. Greene's disposal is hands down my favorite yet in the series. Though it never really happened in the novels, I got the sense that Bond's treatment of Greene is something that he certainly would have done in Fleming's day. Same with Yusef. Corinne's departure, out of focus, with her haunting whispered "thank you," was one of the most chilling moments in the series for me. The image of Bond waiting for them in the dark hearkened straight back to the first scene with Dryden in CR.
Everything from Greene to the necklace in the snow was a thoroughly fantastic ending. Thanks for the thread, Dave.
#22
Posted 25 June 2009 - 04:39 PM
Looking forward, be nice if 23 is Craig's GF: classy caper film with half of it turning on a Bond mistake (in GF, Bond muffs his escape from Goldfinger's Swiss factory, is captured, and yadda yadda). Fleming's Bond always made big plot-turning mistakes, EON needs to go ahead and do that with Craig.
#23
Posted 26 June 2009 - 07:51 AM
I don't buy the statement that Bond would have done anything for Vesper. Most anything yes, but not treason. He wouldn't have gone along with that and once he learned of her betrayal, he would never have looked at her the same way again. Vesper knew that and she couldn't live with that knowledge--or the knowledge that she had betrayed him. That is why she committed suicide. Sure Mr. White said if Vesper hadn't have killed herself then Quantum would have had him too. He--and Quantum--probably believed it. But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country. He probably would have tried to get Vesper out of the mess she was in the best he could because he did love her, but their romantic relationship would have been over.I agree with you and the OP wholedheartedly! My only point of disagreement is in characterizing Vesper's suicide as "selfish." Yes, her death did tear Bond apart, but I didn't get the sense it was selfishly motivated. As Mr. White told Bond, if Vesper hadn't killed herself, Quantum would have had him, too. I've always believed that at least part of Vesper's reason for killing herself was to protect Bond from himself. Mr. White said Bond would have done anything for her, and I believe that's true . . . to Bond's own detriment. Vesper could see that, and she knew if she killed herself, she would spare him that choice.I thought it was an honorable and bold choice to give Bond the moment he never had in the literary series-- specifically, the moment Bond realizes that Vesper killed herself to protect him. Sure, her suicide was still selfish and she still tore his heart asunder, but he realized she really did love him and wasn't just stringing him along the whole time for the money.
This is a small departure from the literary canon; not necessarily that Bond didn't come to this point, but that it didn't happen within our view. It was a nice development to see.
Regarding Bond's dealings with the villains-- absolutely perfect. Greene's disposal is hands down my favorite yet in the series. Though it never really happened in the novels, I got the sense that Bond's treatment of Greene is something that he certainly would have done in Fleming's day. Same with Yusef. Corinne's departure, out of focus, with her haunting whispered "thank you," was one of the most chilling moments in the series for me. The image of Bond waiting for them in the dark hearkened straight back to the first scene with Dryden in CR.
Everything from Greene to the necklace in the snow was a thoroughly fantastic ending. Thanks for the thread, Dave.
#24
Posted 26 June 2009 - 07:59 AM
Once again, I say bollocks.
Bond was an arrogant before falling for Vesper and remained so. He treated women with equal callousness ("Don't worry, you're not my type." "Smart?" "Single" - Solange, anyone?) before Vesper betrayed him as he does after in becoming "The Bond we know and Love".
Oddly, Fleming never makes any association between Vesper's death and Bond's attitude to women. Strange, that.
Can we, therefore, leave the Sigmund Freud pretentious psycho-babble alone, please.
#25
Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:51 AM
#26
Posted 26 June 2009 - 05:50 PM
I agree, and I particularly agree with David. Let's stop to overanalyze the Bond films , and let's enjoy them just for what they really are: pure (and great!!) entertainment.I kind of agree to be honest, although I wouldn't phrase it so aggresively I think a lot of the "origin" stuff people see in the Craig films isn't necessarily there. And I'm glad frankly.
Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 26 June 2009 - 06:00 PM.
#27
Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:12 PM
It's interesting to think about: never occurred to me while watching CR that Quantum ensnaring Bond could be in the cards, but when Mr. White said it in QOS it did give me pause... pretty scary IMO, with a faint echo of Fleming's TMWTGG opening.I don't buy the statement that Bond would have done anything for Vesper. Most anything yes, but not treason. He wouldn't have gone along with that and once he learned of her betrayal, he would never have looked at her the same way again. Vesper knew that and she couldn't live with that knowledge--or the knowledge that she had betrayed him. That is why she committed suicide. Sure Mr. White said if Vesper hadn't have killed herself then Quantum would have had him too. He--and Quantum--probably believed it. But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country. He probably would have tried to get Vesper out of the mess she was in the best he could because he did love her, but their romantic relationship would have been over.I agree with you and the OP wholedheartedly! My only point of disagreement is in characterizing Vesper's suicide as "selfish." Yes, her death did tear Bond apart, but I didn't get the sense it was selfishly motivated. As Mr. White told Bond, if Vesper hadn't killed herself, Quantum would have had him, too. I've always believed that at least part of Vesper's reason for killing herself was to protect Bond from himself. Mr. White said Bond would have done anything for her, and I believe that's true . . . to Bond's own detriment. Vesper could see that, and she knew if she killed herself, she would spare him that choice.I thought it was an honorable and bold choice to give Bond the moment he never had in the literary series-- specifically, the moment Bond realizes that Vesper killed herself to protect him. Sure, her suicide was still selfish and she still tore his heart asunder, but he realized she really did love him and wasn't just stringing him along the whole time for the money.
This is a small departure from the literary canon; not necessarily that Bond didn't come to this point, but that it didn't happen within our view. It was a nice development to see.
Regarding Bond's dealings with the villains-- absolutely perfect. Greene's disposal is hands down my favorite yet in the series. Though it never really happened in the novels, I got the sense that Bond's treatment of Greene is something that he certainly would have done in Fleming's day. Same with Yusef. Corinne's departure, out of focus, with her haunting whispered "thank you," was one of the most chilling moments in the series for me. The image of Bond waiting for them in the dark hearkened straight back to the first scene with Dryden in CR.
Everything from Greene to the necklace in the snow was a thoroughly fantastic ending. Thanks for the thread, Dave.
#28
Posted 26 June 2009 - 08:18 PM
The ending struck me as an inferior copy of the conclusion of The Bourne Supremacy, but with nothing of the emotional impact wielded by the superb Oksana Akinshina.
#29
Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:38 PM
I don't buy the statement that Bond would have done anything for Vesper. Most anything yes, but not treason. He wouldn't have gone along with that and once he learned of her betrayal, he would never have looked at her the same way again. Vesper knew that and she couldn't live with that knowledge--or the knowledge that she had betrayed him. That is why she committed suicide. Sure Mr. White said if Vesper hadn't have killed herself then Quantum would have had him too. He--and Quantum--probably believed it. But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country. He probably would have tried to get Vesper out of the mess she was in the best he could because he did love her, but their romantic relationship would have been over.
Completely agreed. I always thought that the Bond/Vesper relationship ended the moment that he peered around the corner and saw her handing the money to Gettler. Sure, he still had feelings for her, and he tried to save her because of "the big picture", but I would say that his efforts to save her from Gettler and his henchmen was at least halfway motivated by the need to secure her to obtain information about who she was feeding information to and why.
#30
Posted 27 June 2009 - 12:17 AM
I don't buy the statement that Bond would have done anything for Vesper. Most anything yes, but not treason. He wouldn't have gone along with that and once he learned of her betrayal, he would never have looked at her the same way again. Vesper knew that and she couldn't live with that knowledge--or the knowledge that she had betrayed him. That is why she committed suicide. Sure Mr. White said if Vesper hadn't have killed herself then Quantum would have had him too. He--and Quantum--probably believed it. But Bond wouldn't have fallen as easily into Quantum's honey trap as Vesper did even if he did love her. There's just some things Bond won't do--and one is betray is country. He probably would have tried to get Vesper out of the mess she was in the best he could because he did love her, but their romantic relationship would have been over.
Completely agreed. I always thought that the Bond/Vesper relationship ended the moment that he peered around the corner and saw her handing the money to Gettler. Sure, he still had feelings for her, and he tried to save her because of "the big picture", but I would say that his efforts to save her from Gettler and his henchmen was at least halfway motivated by the need to secure her to obtain information about who she was feeding information to and why.
There was definitely some lingering romance there, though. His face clearly displays that as he's trying to rip open the elevator.