42 replies to this topic

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Regardless of your appreciation/disapproval of these movies, can Casino Royale (1967) and/or Never Say Never Again (1983) be considered as Bond movies? And do they deserve to get an Ultimate Edition release with the same artwork as the EON's? What is your opinion on this?

Edited by O.H.M.S.S., 24 June 2009 - 11:54 AM.

[Zorin Industries]

Regardless of your appreciation/disapproval of these movies, can Casino Royale (1967) and/or Never Say Never Again (1983) be considered as Bond movies? And do they deserve to get an Ultimate Edition release with the same artwork as the EON's? What is your opinion on this?

If that is the criteria, then no, they do not count as Eon productions so should not be branded as such (if they indeed are).

[The*SPY*]

There is no continuity in the James Bond worlds. Even the EON films are clouded by different actors as Bond, different character changes, etc. NSNA and CR67 are anomolies that satisfy Bond afficianados who know the histories and production of those movies.

Even Fleming broke standards by writing TSWLM in a different manner and Bond in NY as short inclusion in Thrilling Cities. In fact, I'm sure Bond in NY is like an appendix addition copared to Flemings other novels just liike NSNA and CR67 are often referred to as the "other" Bond movies.

[Tybre]

I don't see why not. Personally I wouldn't count CR67 as a Bond movie. More like the Scary Movie series of Bond films. NSNA though, much as I dislike it, I don't see why not. Also I find it interesting how no one ever mentions '54 Royale. Maybe it's just me but I find that oddly entertaining...

[hilly]

There is no continuity in the James Bond worlds. Even the EON films are clouded by different actors as Bond, different character changes, etc. NSNA and CR67 are anomolies that satisfy Bond afficianados who know the histories and production of those movies.

I agree. Martin Campbell cheerfully admitted that, what timeline there was had been screwed up in the EON movies by making Casino Royale in 2006, and having Judi Dench as M. They'd scuppered it 35 years earlier anyway, by having Sean Connery trading matey banter with Blofeld in the film following Tracey's murder.

Given that EON now hold the CR rights and there have been countless mergers and take-overs of film studios etc over the years, maybe its time that we fully embraced CR 67 and NSNA as part of the Bond "family"..

[darthbond]

I always count the rival Bond movies as "Bond Movies", including the 1954 CR television special.

darthbond

[DamnCoffee]

I count Never Say Never Again as part of the Bond family. It's a damn good entertaining film, and personally, I find it a lot better than some of the 'Official' Bond movies.

[Zorin Industries]

I count Never Say Never Again as part of the Bond family. It's a damn good entertaining film, and personally, I find it a lot better than some of the 'Official' Bond movies.

I disagree on all counts.

NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN ain't part of my Bond family. NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN is like a rubbish younger uncle that comes round every few years and leaves everyone in a state of shock and anger.

[00Jaws]

Only NSNA.
No real criteria, just my personal opinion.

There are a lot of bondian elements and I also find it better than some other Bond flicks (only a few though imo).

[quiller]

I count Never Say Never Again as part of the Bond family. It's a damn good entertaining film, and personally, I find it a lot better than some of the 'Official' Bond movies.

I disagree on all counts.

NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN ain't part of my Bond family. NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN is like a rubbish younger uncle that comes round every few years and leaves everyone in a state of shock and anger.

that could be me.

[jaguar007]

I don't consider either to be part of the "Bond series" because they are not. That said, I do consider NSNA to be a James Bond film (because, it is. It is just not part of the series) and I consider 67 CR to be a James Bond spoof.

[Sark2.0]

Should the Austin Powers films get the Ultimate Edition treatment? They're as much Bond films as CR67.

[RJJB]

If the movie features a character named James Bond, it's a James Bond movie. Anyone can like whatever he wants. I am not going to watch a bad EON movie if I don't like it, just because it's an "official" movie.
And I am not going to fault anyone for liking a movie that I hate.
It's a wide range of entertainment and trying to qualify any entry is just a waste of time. Bottom line, it's your own tastes.

[Zorin Industries]

If the movie features a character named James Bond, it's a James Bond movie. Anyone can like whatever he wants. I am not going to watch a bad EON movie if I don't like it, just because it's an "official" movie.
And I am not going to fault anyone for liking a movie that I hate.
It's a wide range of entertainment and trying to qualify any entry is just a waste of time. Bottom line, it's your own tastes.

So by that criteria the likes of OPERATION KID BROTHER, THE CANNONBALL RUN and THE RETURN OF THE MAN FROM UNCLE are all James Bond films too?

[jaguar007]

If the movie features a character named James Bond, it's a James Bond movie. Anyone can like whatever he wants. I am not going to watch a bad EON movie if I don't like it, just because it's an "official" movie.
And I am not going to fault anyone for liking a movie that I hate.
It's a wide range of entertainment and trying to qualify any entry is just a waste of time. Bottom line, it's your own tastes.

So by that criteria the likes of OPERATION KID BROTHER, THE CANNONBALL RUN and THE RETURN OF THE MAN FROM UNCLE are all James Bond films too?

Those movies "hinted" at James Bond, they never actually used the name James Bond. In The Cannonball Run Symoure Goldfarb thought he was "Roger Moore", not James Bond (but apparently he thought Roger Moore was James Bond.

One thing that irritates me is when I read an article that states Roger Moore played James Bond more times than Sean Connery. Not true. They both played James Bond 7 times. Roger in 7 EON films and Connery in 6 EON films plus one renegade film. However he did play James Bond in NSNA, and it was based on Fleming material to boot (and Whittingham & McClroy).

[tdalton]

I consider NSNA to be a Bond film, but the only thing that I consider CASINO ROYALE '67 to be is one of the absolute worst films of all time.

[Colossus]

There is no such thing as "official" cinematic Bond, just different companies which may own the property at any given time. CR 67 is clearly a parody but NSNA and CR 54 are legitimate attempts at a Bond movie and thus are included in my list too.

[Matt_13]

I consider NSNA to be a Bond film, but the only thing that I consider CASINO ROYALE '67 to be is one of the absolute worst films of all time.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Pedigree aside they ARE both Bond movies. Not Helm movies, not Bourne movies, but Bond movies.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

CR 67 and NSNA are welcome to their own UE's but not with EON's.
They are not EON films and to pretend they are flies in the face of James Bond history.

[staveoffzombies]

I still consider them necessary for a proper Bond film collection. But I'm something of a completest, so I couldn't hold everyne to that.

Edited by staveoffzombies, 24 June 2009 - 11:06 PM.

[RJJB]

If the movie features a character named James Bond, it's a James Bond movie. Anyone can like whatever he wants. I am not going to watch a bad EON movie if I don't like it, just because it's an "official" movie.
And I am not going to fault anyone for liking a movie that I hate.
It's a wide range of entertainment and trying to qualify any entry is just a waste of time. Bottom line, it's your own tastes.

So by that criteria the likes of OPERATION KID BROTHER, THE CANNONBALL RUN and THE RETURN OF THE MAN FROM UNCLE are all James Bond films too?

None of the cast lists for those movies displays a character named James Bond. They are not James Bond movies and more than Austin Powers movies are Bond movies.

Edited by RJJB, 24 June 2009 - 11:11 PM.

[Royal Dalton]

If the movie features a character named James Bond, it's a James Bond movie.

[DaveBond21]

Never Say Never Again was the first Bond movie I saw in a theater.

But I don't consider it part of the official list of Bond movies.

[The*SPY*]

If the movie features a character named James Bond, it's a James Bond movie.

Then let's count "The Return of the Man From U.N.C.L.E." in the canon as the Aston Martin driving George Lazenby character "J.B." pretty much points everything in the direction of James Bond.

[stromberg]

Both CR67 and NSNA are based on Fleming novels (as well as CR54), so, YES, they not only can be considered as Bond movies, they ARE Bond movies. Mere hints at "characters with the initials J.B." or the odd reference are laughable and don't make a Bond movie.

What...? CR67 contains more original Fleming material than TSWLM or MR, for example.

As to the question wether they deserve their "Ultimate Very Super Special Extra Gold Limited Edition", they certainly do (albeit not in the Eon canon), especially CR67, as the story behind that train wreck of a movie seems to be at least as interesting as the one of NSNA.

[Turn]

CR 67 and NSNA are welcome to their own UE's but not with EON's.
They are not EON films and to pretend they are flies in the face of James Bond history.

On the contrary, while not EON films these films are quite important to James Bond history and should be treated that way despite one's opinion of them.

The way EON had to postiton itself against the competition from these other films and those who brought them to the screen is important to how things have ended up.

Kevin McClory was a major player in Bond history and his repeated attempts to create new films affected many things EON had to deal with over the years and still does.

Not to mention CR's history.

[jaguar007]

If the movie features a character named James Bond, it's a James Bond movie.

Then let's count "The Return of the Man From U.N.C.L.E." in the canon as the Aston Martin driving George Lazenby character "J.B." pretty much points everything in the direction of James Bond.

except that had to call him "JB" because they could not legally make him "James Bond". The character was not named James Bond

[Double-Oh Agent]

Casino Royale 1967, no.

Never Say Never Again, yes. NSNA is a faithful/serious adaptation of an Ian Fleming novel and it stars Sean Connery as 007. That is enough for me.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

CR 67 and NSNA are welcome to their own UE's but not with EON's.
They are not EON films and to pretend they are flies in the face of James Bond history.

On the contrary, while not EON films these films are quite important to James Bond history and should be treated that way despite one's opinion of them.

The way EON had to postiton itself against the competition from these other films and those who brought them to the screen is important to how things have ended up.

Kevin McClory was a major player in Bond history and his repeated attempts to create new films affected many things EON had to deal with over the years and still does.

Not to mention CR's history.

Yeah I appreciate they are important to Bond history and have influenced the evolution of the cinematic Bond, but maybe I did not explain enough. I feel both CR 67 and NSNA were films that EON never really wanted released (or made), so to latterly include them as editions of the EON catalogue feels like a contradiction for me.