178 replies to this topic

[trs007]

Although I wouldn't say TLD is the BEST; it does rank among my favorites, and, during the opening scene, opening night, 1987, right after 004 goes plummeting to his death and Bond turns--my first thought was, "Roger who?".

[Harry Fawkes]

I loved TLD and Dalton as James Bond was fabulous. Such a breath of fresh air after Roger Moore's AVTAK.

Not that AVTAK was rubbish, just that I was really dying for a straight forward Bond flick with a hard edge ala FYEO and the earlier Bond films.

To say that TLD is the best Bond ever though is stretching it a bit in my opinion. I think it could go down as the last great Bond film that belonged to another era though.

From Goldeneye onwards, things changed.

The style, the music, the works. The framework was there, don't get me wrong, but I felt that deep down the Bond universe I was so used to had become a different place, in some ways (And not necessarily bad so please don't get me wrong). The fact was they modernised it to great heights and produced a fresher version of the character I loved.

I would say TLD was a great end to a fantastic beginning!

Harry Fawkes

[jamie00007]

Good point and very true. QoS, while it was very successful and made buckets of money, it was not as successful as CR. It did not have as high of an international gross, it cost alot more to make and it had lower DVD sales than CR.

TLD, made much less than any of the Brosnan films, but the production cost was also much lower ($40million V/S $100million - $150million)

Thats not really true. Theres been a huge shift where movies make money since the 80's. There wasnt a trillion dollar home entertainment market in those days. Movies can afford to have a smaller profit margin these days because they are going to make millions on the home market. Thats the reason we are seeing these movies with these monster budgets. TLD might have made some money on VHS rentals, but it is nothing compared the money QoS has brought in so far in DVD and Blu Ray sales. QoS has made 40 million just in the US on DVD sales alone in three months. Thats not counting Blu Ray, in which its the biggest seller of the year. Then theres broadcast rights, cable rights downloads etc. on top of that.

Someone also mentioned Mamma Mia's box office and budget compared to QoS. Yes, Mamma Mia might have had great box office and DVD sales in comparison to its budget, but thats all the revenue its going to get. QoS must have made a fortune in merchandising. The video game alone would have made millions. A movie like QoS also acts as an advertising vehicle for all the assosciated merchandise, not to mention boosting sales of the existing Bond catalogue. And QoS is a much better investment. As part of a popular franchise it will be making money for decades to come, whenever the Bond movies are re-released on whatever formats come along, as well as all the future DVD box sets and the like. Not to mention TV Bond marathons and all that sort of thing.

My point is that its pointless looking at the movies boxoffice for any other reason than to see its popularity with the public. If it makes nearly $600m, that means a LOT of people went to see it. Thats the important thing.

[Ambler]

Someone also mentioned Mamma Mia's box office and budget compared to QoS. Yes, Mamma Mia might have had great box office and DVD sales in comparison to its budget, but thats all the revenue its going to get. QoS must have made a fortune in merchandising.

I'm told the MM soundtrack has sold more than 4 million copies.

[Royal Dalton]

Good point and very true. QoS, while it was very successful and made buckets of money, it was not as successful as CR. It did not have as high of an international gross, it cost alot more to make and it had lower DVD sales than CR.

TLD, made much less than any of the Brosnan films, but the production cost was also much lower ($40million V/S $100million - $150million)

Thats not really true. Theres been a huge shift where movies make money since the 80's. There wasnt a trillion dollar home entertainment market in those days. Movies can afford to have a smaller profit margin these days because they are going to make millions on the home market. Thats the reason we are seeing these movies with these monster budgets. TLD might have made some money on VHS rentals, but it is nothing compared the money QoS has brought in so far in DVD and Blu Ray sales. QoS has made 40 million just in the US on DVD sales alone in three months. Thats not counting Blu Ray, in which its the biggest seller of the year. Then theres broadcast rights, cable rights downloads etc. on top of that.

Nearly all of that applied during the bulk of the Brosnan era, as well. And his films still made less profit than Dalton's.

[jamie00007]

I'm told the MM soundtrack has sold more than 4 million copies.

Considering that it doesnt have any original songs, I doubt much of that money went to the movie producers.

Nearly all of that applied during the bulk of the Brosnan era, as well. And his films still made less profit than Dalton's.

Whats your source for that? I find it very hard to believe. The Brosnan movies all had an avalanche of merchandice. The GoldenEye N64 game sold 8 million copies alone. And the later Brosnan films were strong sellers on DVD, Die Another Day in particular (inexplicably). I cant see how either Dalton films could have been more profitable in the long run than any of the Brosnan films.

[Ambler]

I'm told the MM soundtrack has sold more than 4 million copies.

Considering that it doesnt have any original songs, I doubt much of that money went to the movie producers.

As the duo who wrote the songs were also the film's producers, you're mistaken.

[jamie00007]

Fair enough, but thats an exception to the rule. I also dont really see how that compares to Bond though, would you prefer lower budget Bond films so Eon can make more money?

My point is that you cannot judge a modern Bond films profitablity on the box office alone, theres far too many other sources of revenue. Nobody would make a $230 million dollar movie if the box office was the only source of revenue. Even if the movie broke even at the box office, it would still have made a lot of people a lot of money in a multitude of other ways and will keep paying off for decades to come.

[Colossus]

Whats your source for that? I find it very hard to believe. The Brosnan movies all had an avalanche of merchandice. The GoldenEye N64 game sold 8 million copies alone. And the later Brosnan films were strong sellers on DVD, Die Another Day in particular (inexplicably). I cant see how either Dalton films could have been more profitable in the long run than any of the Brosnan films.

Yeah that made absolutely no sense. Dalton's almost sunk the franchise.

[Safari Suit]

There's a difference between "accumulated more money" and "made a bigger profit".

I don't really think the sales of the Goldeneye game, for example, have anything to do with how profitable the film itself was. How much of that money would go to EON compared with what went to Rare?

And the later Brosnan films were strong sellers on DVD, Die Another Day in particular (inexplicably).

That was probably because DVD's had only really started to take off around the time Die Another Day hit DVD.

[Fogs]

I just saw TLD last night for the first time since it was in theatres! Sci Fi has been running back to back Bonds (in HD) on Thursdays, and last night was TLD and TWINE. I was really looking forward to it, as I remembered liking it so much when it first came out. For whatever reason, since then, LTK is the only Dalton Bond I seem to catch.

I was really pleasantly surprised at how well its held up. With the exception of lasering the car in half, there's nothing too farfetched (at least by Bond standards). d'Abo and Dalton work well together, and I bought into their romantic subplot. The main villains were weak (real weak actually), but "Necros" is a good henchmen, for sure. Definitely falls solidly into the more "realistic" Bond category. One of the best movies in the series.

The best? Noooo, I'd say no. And it narrowly misses my top five. But it's of such quality that I wouldn't disparage anyone who had it higher.

Oh, one thing though?

God that themesong is bad. Wow. Has to be one of the worst of the series hands down, no?

The whole title sequence in general actually was real weak (not the PTS)

[byline]

God that themesong is bad. Wow. Has to be one of the worst of the series hands down, no?

No. I like it. *shrug*

[tdalton]

God that themesong is bad. Wow. Has to be one of the worst of the series hands down, no?

No. I like it. *shrug*

I like the song as well. Is it the best one? No, I don't think that it is. I'd reserve that distinction for either "For Your Eyes Only", "Nobody Does it Better", or "You Know My Name". I still think that it's a great song, though, and one of the better ones in the franchise.

As for TLD being the best Bond film ever, I'd certainly say that it's up there, but not quite THE best. It's firmly in my top 5 along with LTK, QOS, CR, and FRWL.

[jaguar007]

I also caught part of it in HD on Sci Fi. I also just put it on my iphone the day before yesterday.

After seeing part of it in HD all I can do is repeat one of my previous posts

BLU RAY!!!!!!!

[tdalton]

I also caught part of it in HD on Sci Fi. I also just put it on my iphone the day before yesterday.

After seeing part of it in HD all I can do is repeat one of my previous posts

BLU RAY!!!!!!!

I can't wait for TLD to be released on Blu-ray. That day will be spent having a mini-marathon of the four best Bond films: TLD, LTK, CR, and QOS.

Also, if the transfer for TLD is anything like the one for LTK, then we're in for a real treat, as I thought that LTK had the best transfer of any of the Bond films thus far (even better than that for DN, which was truly fantastic in its own right).

[Stephen Spotswood]

Someone also mentioned Mamma Mia's box office and budget compared to QoS. Yes, Mamma Mia might have had great box office and DVD sales in comparison to its budget, but thats all the revenue its going to get. QoS must have made a fortune in merchandising.

I'm told the MM soundtrack has sold more than 4 million copies.

Marilyn Manson?

the numbers show the current series is in the best shape its been in years.

I judge a film by its content not its financial return.

Judging by the financial returns the Jonas Brothers are the biggest band out now.

When are JB gonna do a JB theme?

Would we want them to?

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

God that themesong is bad. Wow. Has to be one of the worst of the series hands down, no?

No. I like it. *shrug*

I also shrug. If you don't like it fair enough but that theme (and video) was EVERYWHERE in the UK (and I think in Europe too) in '87. Consequently EVERYONE knew there was a Bond film out and it definitely played a key part in the films success.

I also caught part of it in HD on Sci Fi. I also just put it on my iphone the day before yesterday.

After seeing part of it in HD all I can do is repeat one of my previous posts

BLU RAY!!!!!!!

I can't wait for TLD to be released on Blu-ray. That day will be spent having a mini-marathon of the four best Bond films: TLD, LTK, CR, and QOS.

Also, if the transfer for TLD is anything like the one for LTK, then we're in for a real treat, as I thought that LTK had the best transfer of any of the Bond films thus far (even better than that for DN, which was truly fantastic in its own right).

I can't wait for BR TLD either. I want it now I tell you now!

[Jeao007]

I most certainly would not like to see the Jonas brothers do a title song, I think LuLu's The Man with the Golden Gun would be more listenable.

[Piz Gloria 1969]

"I'm told the MM soundtrack has sold more than 4 million copies"

Reply : "Marilyn Manson?"

Pay attention 007...I believe he's referring to Mamma Mia....or maybe post #2 is sarcasm loaded in which case my fault lol

[PrinceKamalKhan]

It's the best since the sixties, 10/10.

Agreed. In fact, I will go even further and say it's the best Bond film since Thunderball. The Living Daylights and On Her Majesty’s Secret Service are almost tied for me. OHMSS has the better villains and better final 1/3 for me but TLD benefits from a stronger, more experienced lead actor in Dalton. Also, I find the chemistry between him and Miss d'Abo stronger than the Lazenby/Rigg chemistry. Plus, I prefer how the villain storyline and girl storyline are better integrated throughout the whole of TLD than in OHMSS where Tracy vanishes midway for an hour. So I give TLD a slight edge.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

I hate to say whuich Bond film is the "best ever", but The Living Daylights is definitely up there, as is Dalton's other entry to the series. I've always loved The Living Daylights. It has the hard edge we associate with Dalton, but there's still a nice amount of humour and Bondian traits that had been established over the 20+ years before hand. My favourite scene personally is the scene where Saunders is murdered by Necros. The reaction Dalton gives is spine-tingling, and you can really see the anger and hurt in Bond's eyes, and indeed hear it in his voice: "Yes...I got the message."

It's also one of the most realistic Bond films in terms of plotline, in my opinion, as from my research into Cold War espionage (for my dissertation), I've found that there were numerous double and triple agents who could inflitrate governments and agencies to the deepest core, using all their charm and cunning to get the job done, just as Koskov does. The only part which has grated a touch over the 15 years I've been watching Bond movies is the car chase, but it's still enterataining enough. A truly great Bond film that certainly has the right to be considered among the best.

[The sniper was a woman]

It has all the elements, is it the best Bond film???

My favorite in second after FRWL. Dalton was a great James Bond.

[solace]

Great Film. Best Bond ever? For me, no but definately one of my top 10. Best thing's about it are Dalton, the action scenes and the fantastic soundtrack. Its main weakness is the finale for me. It always feels like a huge let-down but hey I still love the movie.

[Stephen Spotswood]

FRWL is my favorite, but this one is similar, in that Bond spends most of the film with one woman,

AND it reminds the audience what these people get paid to do...like some critic mentioned once: Moore holding a sniper's rifle is odd, Dalton does it in BOTH of his films.

It takes you on a ride too. I love to cook but after that fight in the MI6 kitchen - whoa. That's a good movie fight people.

Parts to hate(grr) - the Aston laser, and Whitaker's death is the definition of anti-climatic.

I wish the film had ended when he says, "I know a great restaurant in Karachi." That's kinda funny after what they have just been through.

I forgot the best part...the way Dalton is introduced. (spoiler alert: HE HEADBUTTS A GUY!) I rest my case.

Now, about the zaftig babe walking towards the camera while unzipping her jumpsuit...
okay forget that I mentioned that.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjXE-ELZzJ0

[Harry Potter]

FRWL is my favorite, but this one is similar, in that Bond spends most of the film with one woman,

AND it reminds the audience what these people get paid to do...like some critic mentioned once: Moore holding a sniper's rifle is odd, Dalton does it in BOTH of his films.

It takes you on a ride too. I love to cook but after that fight in the MI6 kitchen - whoa. That's a good movie fight people.

Parts to hate(grr) - the Aston laser, and Whitaker's death is the definition of anti-climatic.

I wish the film had ended when he says, "I know a great restaurant in Karachi." That's kinda funny after what they have just been through.

I forgot the best part...the way Dalton is introduced. (spoiler alert: HE HEADBUTTS A GUY!) I rest my case.

Now, about the zaftig babe walking towards the camera while unzipping her jumpsuit...
okay forget that I mentioned that.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjXE-ELZzJ0

Yeah I think Dalton was a great Bond; he brought the series bang up to date.
The scene on the Herc was one of the best stunts going; brill.

[Scaramanga'74]

Certainly belongs to the top 5 Bond movies category for the plethora of factors discussed above. I personally enjoy this outing for the following reasons:

1) John Barry was in solid form (need I say more?) and a-ha's rendition of the title theme was infectious. Though much dated but still remains a personal favourite.

2) Realistic, down-to-earth (in direct contrast to, say, Moore's Moonraker & TSWLM) plot involving the Soviets, Afghans and arms smuggling. Still relevant for today's news headlines, despite the demise of the USSR.

3) Terrific action sequence - from the rocky heights of the Gibraltar to the snow-laden fields of Bratislava to the scorching deserts of Afghanistan - this Bond was constantly living on the edge, AND SURVIVING IT!

4) Ruthless savagery of Necros and the diabolical cunningness of General Koskov in trying to play off his fellow countrymen against the West for personal benefit. Does that remind you of any modern-day Koskovs who fit the bill? Profit above ideology?

5) The innocent beauty of Kara Milovy who becomes an unwitting pawn in an international game of intrigue and double-crossings. Top notch acting by Maryam D'Abo. Remarkable chemistry with the leading man.

Edited by Scaramanga'74, 16 December 2010 - 01:58 AM.

[Liparus]

2) Realistic, down-to-earth (in direct contrast to, say, Moore's Moonraker & TSWLM) plot

Don't forget the contrast with DAF and YOLT...A villain with headquarters in a volcano, and Blofeld with all his look-alike, satellite in diamonds etc etc.

The innocent beauty of Kara Milovy who becomes an unwitting pawn in an international game of intrigue and double-crossings.

I don't know if she's innocent or just...stupid. At least, Stacy in AVTAK is not a pawn (or a turkey), she had pride and bravery...and charisma.

TLD is indeed a very good film but not for those reasons IMO. It's more thanks to Dalton's interpretation of Bond and a realistic plot. The realization is one the best too.

[Major Tallon]

[

The innocent beauty of Kara Milovy who becomes an unwitting pawn in an international game of intrigue and double-crossings.

I don't know if she's innocent or just...stupid. At least, Stacy in AVTAK is not a pawn (or a turkey), she had pride and bravery...and charisma.

Kara certainly isn't stupid. She's been misled by the villain, and we see her conflicted as her loyalty to Koskov clashes with her growing attraction to Bond. All of that is very nicely played. She's a courageous character, too. Consider the way she forces Kamran Shah's hand into attacking the Russian air base, and her behavior during the fight shows no small amount of courage.

Most importantly, though, her relationship with Bond may be the most genuinely romantic among those in the series. She's one of my favorite heroines.

[Achille Aubergine]

Kara certainly isn't stupid. All of that is very nicely played.
Most importantly, though, her relationship with Bond may be the most genuinely romantic among those in the series.

Well maybe she's not stupid but she's obviously extremely naive. She believes everything ! From Koskov first then from Bond.
She reacts like a teenage girl !
And about "the most genuinely romantic relationship", you have curiously forgotten Teresa and Vesper ! Bond had loved passionately those women certainly not Milovy !

[Jack Rapace]

Agree with you Aubergine. Bond had a crush for Kara but not so much !