178 replies to this topic

[Pierce - Daniel]

I just finished watching TLD. I was shocked how much of a great time I had watching it.
I've never really been a John Glen fan, but his direction in the film is very good. It reminded me at times of GE and CR, of course TLD outdates both those films.
It had some amazing moments throughout.
First off- the script. Fantastic. It was so sharp and full of wit and emotion. Like FRWL (which I regard as one fo the best scripts ever writtern) and CR (the banter in the film was brilliant), TLD has the same scope, and the dialogue is fantastic.
The acting, Dalton is fantasic, I love that scene with him and Saunders at the start of the film. When he upturns the collars on his tux and gets ready to shoot. That dialogue in the car, "If M fired me, I'd thank him for it". Dalton is so charismatic and charming, but ruthless when he needs to be, love the moment when he confronts Kara after Saunders' death. Bond is teary eyed, there is alot of rage in him. The scene with Robert Brown in his office, where he dosen't want to kill Pushkin but accepted the mission anyway is superb. D'Abo is also brilliant, the relationship between her and Bond never feels forced, not like in other Bond movies, when the girls appear as window dressing and just happen to love the main character. With D'Abo and Dalton you feel there is some connection, and it works so well.
The action is great - even if there is little of it. Very nice indeed.
The music is brilliant, the Bond movies without a John Barry score severely suffer imo.
Everything works so well, the only bad things I can think of....
-The plot jump with the opium, it came way from the left, but the film recovered very quickly.
-The whole CIA scenes, "Looking for a Party", that God awfull music when the girls arrive in frame. Felix sort of sucks. Only redeeming feature of those scenes are when we can see Pushkin's assasination on TV, and when Bond gets a glass of Jack Daniels and says "Lets talk shop"
-Glen's direction suffers now and then, but nothing the story has enough momentum to not distract that.
-The decade hasn't been too kind on it, but no where near as harsh as films like DAF and LTK.

It has all the elements, is it the best Bond film???

[DamnCoffee]

I wouldn't go as far to call it the best Bond film ever, but I would agree that it's a damn good flick. It's definately one of the stronger Bond films.

[Pierce - Daniel]

Stronger is an underestmate surely? It ticks all the boxes. Dalton did such a rounded portrayal in 2 films, more then Roger did in 7 films.
And to those cynics who say he was too dark - what you going on about?
He was fun and charismatic throughout the film, as well as sensual and thoughtfull. The perfect Bond.

[DamnCoffee]

Stronger is an underestmate surely?

Now you come to mention it, yes. On second thought's... it's ING FANTASTIC!

[jaguar007]

I don't think TLD is THE best Bond movie, but it is in my top 5. Until CR came out, it was my favorite Bond movie outside of the 1960s decade.

I agree with just about every one of your points.

It is really Dalton's portrayal of Bond that really elevates this film. The opening scene with the defection (taken from the short story) and the scene in Pushkin's hotel are two of the best scenes in the entire series.

[Onyx2626]

FRWL is my favorite, but this one is similar, in that Bond spends most of the film with one woman,

AND it reminds the audience what these people get paid to do...like some critic mentioned once: Moore holding a sniper's rifle is odd, Dalton does it in BOTH of his films.

It takes you on a ride too. I love to cook but after that fight in the MI6 kitchen - whoa. That's a good movie fight people.

Parts to hate(grr) - the Aston laser, and Whitaker's death is the definition of anti-climatic.

I wish the film had ended when he says, "I know a great restaurant in Karachi." That's kinda funny after what they have just been through.

I forgot the best part...the way Dalton is introduced. (spoiler alert: HE HEADBUTTS A GUY!) I rest my case.

Now, about the zaftig babe walking towards the camera while unzipping her jumpsuit...
okay forget that I mentioned that.

[DamnCoffee]

AND it reminds the audience what these people get paid to do...like some critic mentioned once: Moore holding a sniper's rifle is odd, Dalton does it in BOTH of his films.

Did Moore ever hold a Sniper Rifle, anyway?

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

Its probably my favourite. Is it the best? - im not sure, definately an artistic highpoint and no doubt the best Bond of its decade.
John Glen used all his talents here and equally Maibaum wrote a super script. Dalton is very watchable and has a great cast to work with. The icing on the cake is Barry's brilliant score.
The film is fresh and energetic, full of sit up and take notice moments (like CR) that surprise and entertain.
What stands out with this film is its serious atmosphere that made it feel so different. From its opening in a concert hall to the romance on the ferris wheel with Bond and Kara and the dessert sequences (leading up to probably one of the best climaxes in the series) all make for an enjoyable film. Its even great to hear words like "death to spies" and "sniper".
I remember TLD when it was released and all the promotion that went with it - the WHSmith travel offer, the trio stickers, the a-ha video. Felt like everyone saw this in the UK in summer 1987.

Edited by sthgilyadgnivileht, 11 June 2009 - 09:43 PM.

[Onyx2626]

AND it reminds the audience what these people get paid to do...like some critic mentioned once: Moore holding a sniper's rifle is odd, Dalton does it in BOTH of his films.

Did Moore ever hold a Sniper Rifle, anyway?

"Speak now or forever hold your...piece."

[Royal Dalton]

I wouldn't say it's the best film in the series. But it's in the top one.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

He was fun and charismatic throughout the film, as well as sensual and thoughtfull. The perfect Bond.

Finally someone who gets this.

TLD is among my top five films of the series.

[DamnCoffee]

AND it reminds the audience what these people get paid to do...like some critic mentioned once: Moore holding a sniper's rifle is odd, Dalton does it in BOTH of his films.

Did Moore ever hold a Sniper Rifle, anyway?

"Speak now or forever hold your...piece."

Oh yes!

Well, he wasn't really spying. He was merely threatening. I wouldn't have minded Roger in some stealth/sniper rifle action. It would've been interesting to see.

[JimmyBond]

Stronger is an underestmate surely? It ticks all the boxes. Dalton did such a rounded portrayal in 2 films, more then Roger did in 7 films.

To be fair though Roger was starring in different types of Bond films, it's kind of unfair to compare him to Dalton. Though I do agree Dalton portrays a much more realistic Bond.

I enjoy LD, but LTK is my favorite of Dalton's two.

[Pierce - Daniel]

Great movie. Dalton is great in LTK, but he has more to do in TLD. He has this harsh moments where he appears reckless.
-The opening sniper scene.
-The conversation when he picks up Sauders after defecting Koskov, fantastic scene.
-The scene in Pushkin's notel room.

But at time he has these thoughtfull and interesting scenes, that explore the character and make you understand Bond a little more.
-The M scene where he tries to convince M that Pushkin can't be considered psychoatic. And he argrees to kill him.

But he has fun and is very sensual in his portrayal, sort of pulling back the layers slightly.
-The line at the start "better make that two."
-The whole Kara relationship. D'Abo is pretty, but hardly amazing, but due to the fact that Dalton and her relationship is so fantastic and never really feels forced on the auidence, you find yourself falling a bit in love with her as the film continues.

I truly say having watched it, I was gutted when it came to an end.

Also.....never noticed it before, but after Bond shoots Pushkin and Necros throws the spotlight on Bond and he shoots the light out. The whole scene is effectively the opening gunbarrel sequence but in the film. Very nice touch, Glen hit the money with that one.

[Professor Dent]

I wouldn't say it's the best but it is a strong movie. Dalton puts in a great performance & it's Barry's last score for a Bond movie. Two of the reasons it's on my short list of Bond movie favorites.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

Great movie. Dalton is great in LTK, but he has more to do in TLD. He has this harsh moments where he appears reckless.
-The opening sniper scene.
-The conversation when he picks up Sauders after defecting Koskov, fantastic scene.
-The scene in Pushkin's notel room.

But at time he has these thoughtfull and interesting scenes, that explore the character and make you understand Bond a little more.
-The M scene where he tries to convince M that Pushkin can't be considered psychoatic. And he argrees to kill him.

But he has fun and is very sensual in his portrayal, sort of pulling back the layers slightly.
-The line at the start "better make that two."
-The whole Kara relationship. D'Abo is pretty, but hardly amazing, but due to the fact that Dalton and her relationship is so fantastic and never really feels forced on the auidence, you find yourself falling a bit in love with her as the film continues.

I truly say having watched it, I was gutted when it came to an end.



Also.....never noticed it before, but after Bond shoots Pushkin and Necros throws the spotlight on Bond and he shoots the light out. The whole scene is effectively the opening gunbarrel sequence but in the film. Very nice touch, Glen hit the money with that one.

I agree with your points. Never thought about the gunbarrel being in the film before. There is no doubt with TLD the series is on top form and it took 19 years for another 007 film to match it's greatness.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

I also think this is the most varied Bond movie by far. Is it a Cold War thriller? An adventure movie? An action-comedy? A romance? Hard to tell, but it's all the more brilliant for mixing so many elements. Love, love, love it.

[Pierce - Daniel]

I'm not sure about the last point raised.
It is first and foremost a thriller without a question of a doubt. The Cold War element works in favour of that. It has the same element as FRWL, it sets up the paranoia that something big and bad is happening, look at the moment Kara gets pulled of the tram and is confronted by Pushkin. It's a great moment and it's clear that he's the film's big bad, but not till Bond finds the blanks. Who is the enemy? The comedy is there to keep the momentum if the film was just action and thrills it gets to much, look at LTK and QOS, great movies but lack humour and they tend to drag on and when the films attepmt humour it falls short and looks like an obiouvs crack at light relief (Joe Butcher, Q in LTK, Agent Fields). TLD matches the balance well, and it has the wit throughout the screenplay even in the dark moments, theres some cracking witty dialogue between Pushkin and Whittaker, but till serious and well acted. The humour also creates character, the whole cello subplot is funny but also important to the plot.
It really stands out as a great movie, as well as a great Bond movie.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

I'm not sure about the last point raised.
It is first and foremost a thriller without a question of a doubt. The Cold War element works in favour of that. It has the same element as FRWL, it sets up the paranoia that something big and bad is happening, look at the moment Kara gets pulled of the tram and is confronted by Pushkin. It's a great moment and it's clear that he's the film's big bad, but not till Bond finds the blanks. Who is the enemy? The comedy is there to keep the momentum if the film was just action and thrills it gets to much, look at LTK and QOS, great movies but lack humour and they tend to drag on and when the films attepmt humour it falls short and looks like an obiouvs crack at light relief (Joe Butcher, Q in LTK, Agent Fields). TLD matches the balance well, and it has the wit throughout the screenplay even in the dark moments, theres some cracking witty dialogue between Pushkin and Whittaker, but till serious and well acted. The humour also creates character, the whole cello subplot is funny but also important to the plot.
It really stands out as a great movie, as well as a great Bond movie.

Yes it does match the balance well and I agree it is first and foremost a thriller, but all its elements blend together and Glen assembles them all perfectly. Bond and Kara in the cello case probably sums up Glen's approach to audience entertainment. He knows instinctively what a Bond audience will like and this is what makes him such a good Bond director. He hits the material on the nose, something that later directors like Apted could not accomplish. Equally Glen has enough insight into the Bond character and universe to make the darker moments like Saunders death and the Pushkin interrogation scene in the hotel alarmingly effective. They are natural and not overemphasised scenes - they don't stand out and say to the audience "hey this the drama scene" - they fit in with the film as a whole. For example I prefer the Bond/Kara “send you back to London” scene over something that would crop up later in the series like “all the heroes I know are dead” with Bond/Natalya in GE or the scenes with Bond and Electra King in TWINE. And BTW I'm not being critical of GE here, its a great movie, but I use these examples of why TLD is such a good entry in the Bond series IMO.

[00Nothing]

It really stands out as a great movie, as well as a great Bond movie.

Agree with that statement totally. I love TLD so much, definitely near the top of my favourite Bond movies. I love the Cold War feel of the material and the epic qualities of the Afghanistan scenes at the end, plus the fight scenes are some of the best in a Bond film ever. The kitchen scene is good, but the fight on the Hercules plane with Bond and Necros hanging of the back is outstanding. I remember watching the film when I was five years old thinking it was the greatest thing I had ever seen. It's a film that shines bright as a thriller, an action movie and an unashamed romance. You can really buy into Bond and Kara, the scenes between them are so lovely and sweet, you almost wish Bond would settle down with her, then again he probably wouldn't be Bond if he did.

Great film.

[jaguar007]

It also has the distinction of being the last "cold war" Bond film.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

It also has the distinction of being the last "cold war" Bond film.

Yes it does, and it makes the most of that cold war theme as well.

[00Twelve]

TLD is a good Bond movie and sits comfortably in my top five (at least, I think it still does), but I can't call it "the best."

I love Dalton, Rhys-Davies, and Malik, and the story is a nice change from the usual world domination fare, and the adaptation of the short story is (while still not quite as exciting as the book) a successful scene. The movie boasts many fine scenes and sequences.

The cons, though, that keep it from being "the best" IMO, are:

- The villains. Krabbe is a perfectly fine actor, but the character was written (or played, I haven't quite decided) as a bit of a fop. Not unforgivable, of course, and I enjoy even Koskov at times. Now Whitaker...Joe Don Baker is a character actor. Plain and simple. And character actors aren't leading villain material. Baker was much better suited to a character like Wade than Whitaker. The Whitaker character was a bit of a cartoon, but he was made all the less intimidating by Baker's warm smile and Texan(?) accent. A fine baddie for a lower profile action movie of the time, but not really Bondian material IMO.

- Glen. I will admit, this movie is the closest he got to actually pulling off some compelling shots. He used some angles and techniques that set this film apart from the rest of his Bond CV. Still, the movie was primarily par for the course for Glen's framing. I thought the quick shot of the Marriage of Figaro set was kind of ironic in the sense that it's supposed to be a contrast with the much more dynamic world in this movie, but instead fits right in with the very direct shots of actors and standard-lit scenery that Glen employed. Anyway, it's just not up to the standards of Young, Hunt, Gilbert, Campbell, or (hide your children) Forster.

Don't get me wrong, though-- I do enjoy TLD a whole lot as an entry in the canon. It is, as I said, a very good Bond movie and better than many. Think I'll watch it this evening, now that we've discussed it.

[Mr_Wint]

- Glen. I will admit, this movie is the closest he got to actually pulling off some compelling shots. He used some angles and techniques that set this film apart from the rest of his Bond CV. Still, the movie was primarily par for the course for Glen's framing. I thought the quick shot of the Marriage of Figaro set was kind of ironic in the sense that it's supposed to be a contrast with the much more dynamic world in this movie, but instead fits right in with the very direct shots of actors and standard-lit scenery that Glen employed. Anyway, it's just not up to the standards of Young, Hunt, Gilbert, Campbell , or (hide your children) Forster.

Totally disagree with this. Glen's framing and style of directing is very similar to both Young and Hunt. Apparently, fans can appreciate this toned down directing style when they see it in a 60s movie, but not in a 80s movie...

As for Forster, well TLD is a masterpiece compared to QOS so go figure.

[O.H.M.S.S.]

It's the best since the sixties, 10/10.

[Tybre]

- Glen. I will admit, this movie is the closest he got to actually pulling off some compelling shots. He used some angles and techniques that set this film apart from the rest of his Bond CV. Still, the movie was primarily par for the course for Glen's framing. I thought the quick shot of the Marriage of Figaro set was kind of ironic in the sense that it's supposed to be a contrast with the much more dynamic world in this movie, but instead fits right in with the very direct shots of actors and standard-lit scenery that Glen employed. Anyway, it's just not up to the standards of Young, Hunt, Gilbert, Campbell , or (hide your children) Forster.

Totally disagree with this. Glen's framing and style of directing is very similar to both Young and Hunt. Apparently, fans can appreciate this toned down directing style when they see it in a 60s movie, but not in a 80s movie...

As for Forster, well TLD is a masterpiece compared to QOS so go figure.

Eh, I will say Glen isn't the best. I think he's better than Gilbert, personally, but he's far from fantastic. By no means is he terrible, though. Even the worst Bond directors have been better than the directors of a lot of other films I've seen.

Edited by Tybre, 12 June 2009 - 05:03 PM.

[Peckinpah1976]

Is TLD the best Bond ever?

No, you're on drugs.

[00Twelve]

- Glen. I will admit, this movie is the closest he got to actually pulling off some compelling shots. He used some angles and techniques that set this film apart from the rest of his Bond CV. Still, the movie was primarily par for the course for Glen's framing. I thought the quick shot of the Marriage of Figaro set was kind of ironic in the sense that it's supposed to be a contrast with the much more dynamic world in this movie, but instead fits right in with the very direct shots of actors and standard-lit scenery that Glen employed. Anyway, it's just not up to the standards of Young, Hunt, Gilbert, Campbell , or (hide your children) Forster.

Totally disagree with this. Glen's framing and style of directing is very similar to both Young and Hunt. Apparently, fans can appreciate this toned down directing style when they see it in a 60s movie, but not in a 80s movie...

As for Forster, well TLD is a masterpiece compared to QOS so go figure.

Ah, but after Young and Hunt there was such a man as Gilbert. And his framing techniques were far more dynamic. Glen's output looks miraculously drab by comparison.

And while I conceded that my view on Forster is an opinion, your tone seem to infer sadly again that your view on him is factual. Not so.

[Safari Suit]

Is TLD the best Bond ever?

No, you're on drugs.

Harsh, much?

Mind you, if those drugs wiped out sections of my memory regarding the third act the film might actually make the pole position IMO.

[DR76]

I wouldn't personally call TLD the best Bond ever. But it is certainly among my top five favorite Bond films.