121 replies to this topic

[DAN LIGHTER]

I have just finished reading Roger Moores My Word Is My Bond and was surprised to lean that Sean and Cubby were not on good terms. Sean didn’t attend Cubby’s memorial service etc

Could anyone tell us the History to the falling out?

It also seems Sean and Roger were not as close friends as I always believed there were? More acquaintances?

[dee-bee-five]

I have just finished reading Roger Moores My Word Is My Bond and was surprised to lean that Sean and Cubby were not on good terms. Sean didn’t attend Cubby’s memorial service etc

Could anyone tell us the History to the falling out?

It presumably stems from Connery's belief that Broccoli and Saltzman ripped him off. It's always been his default setting for anyone he's worked with/for (allegedly). Listen to people who've had any business dealings with him and you hear a depressingly consistent story. A great Bond he might be, but I'd be loathe to do business with him.

Even allowing for that, his behaviour over Cubby's memorial service was contemptible in my view.

Of course, there are two sides to every story. But as someone who did meet and have dealings with Cubby Broccoli, I know whose version I'm inclined to believe - and it ain't Mr. Connery's.

[plankattack]

The history?

Money.

[DAN LIGHTER]

I have just finished reading Roger Moores My Word Is My Bond and was surprised to lean that Sean and Cubby were not on good terms. Sean didn’t attend Cubby’s memorial service etc

Could anyone tell us the History to the falling out?

It presumably stems from Connery's belief that Broccoli and Saltzman ripped him off. It's always been his default setting for anyone he's worked with/for (allegedly). Listen to people who've had any business dealings with him and you hear a depressingly consistent story. A great Bond he might be, but I'd be loathe to do business with him.

Even allowing for that, his behaviour over Cubby's memorial service was contemptible in my view.

Of course, there are two sides to every story. But as someone who did meet and have dealings with Cubby Broccoli, I know whose version I'm inclined to believe - and it ain't Mr. Connery's.

Thank you Dee-Bee-Five. I was very shocked that Connery didnt attend Cubbys Memmorial.

[Zorin Industries]

I have just finished reading Roger Moores My Word Is My Bond and was surprised to lean that Sean and Cubby were not on good terms. Sean didn’t attend Cubby’s memorial service etc

Could anyone tell us the History to the falling out?

It presumably stems from Connery's belief that Broccoli and Saltzman ripped him off. It's always been his default setting for anyone he's worked with/for (allegedly). Listen to people who've had any business dealings with him and you hear a depressingly consistent story. A great Bond he might be, but I'd be loathe to do business with him.

Even allowing for that, his behaviour over Cubby's memorial service was contemptible in my view.

Of course, there are two sides to every story. But as someone who did meet and have dealings with Cubby Broccoli, I know whose version I'm inclined to believe - and it ain't Mr. Connery's.

Thank you Dee-Bee-Five. I was very shocked that Connery didnt attend Cubbys Memmorial.

Not as dismayed as the Eon family allegedly were. And - if my memory serves me right - Connery wouldn't even record a piece to camera.

[Jim]

£

[DAN LIGHTER]

I wonder in what way he thinks he was ripped off? Did this all stem after he did Diamonds are forever?

[Zorin Industries]

Never put money ahead of loyalty and gratitude. One of them did. One of them didn't.

[doublenoughtspy]

Sean glady boasts that he has sued every studio and practically every producer he has ever worked for.

I think he was most upset that he was never made a partner. Terence Young also wanted to be a partner. But both he and Connery were hired hands - they took no financial or career risk, so Cubby & Harry didn't make them partners.

I believe Connery's lawsuits up through the 80s related to profit participation and royalties on merchandise.

But as Cubby pointed out in interviews - Sean was suing the wrong people. Eon didn't pay out profits or "steal" from Connery - United Artists were in charge of that.

I don't know why people are "shocked" about Connery not doing anything for the Cubby memorial. He didn't exactly take out trade ads lamenting the loss of Harry Saltzman, who died 2 years earlier.

There were 2 producers on all of Connery's Bond films - remember?

Connery did make this statement when Cubby died:

"My previous differences with Cubby Broccoli were well-known, but I recently took the opportunity to make my peace with him. I'm extremely sorry to hear of the loss. He will be missed."

[Zorin Industries]

Sean glady boasts that he has sued every studio and practically every producer he has ever worked for.

I think he was most upset that he was never made a partner. Terence Young also wanted to be a partner. But both he and Connery were hired hands - they took no financial or career risk, so Cubby & Harry didn't make them partners.

I believe Connery's lawsuits up through the 80s related to profit participation and royalties on merchandise.

But as Cubby pointed out in interviews - Sean was suing the wrong people. Eon didn't pay out profits or "steal" from Connery - United Artists were in charge of that.

I don't know why people are "shocked" about Connery not doing anything for the Cubby memorial. He didn't exactly take out trade ads lamenting the loss of Harry Saltzman, who died 2 years earlier.

There were 2 producers on all of Connery's Bond films - remember?

And it is also worth remembering that it was neither of them who pushed for Connery to be cast in the first instance. It was Dana Broccoli, Cubby's wife. She was the one who saw something in a bit-part, c-list matinee idol. She is also the one who requested Connery have some input into Cubby's memorial. He allegedly chose not to (which is his choice). But manners and decency cost nothing.

[David_M]

It also seems Sean and Roger were not as close friends as I always believed there were? More acquaintances?

Well, I don't know that I ever imagined them taking vacations together, or being godfathers to each others' kids. Over the years, lazy journalists tried to drum up a fictional blood feud between the actors as "rival Bonds", so Roger (and maybe Sean, I don't remember) made an effort to stress this was not the case with "actually we're good friends"-type quotes. Maybe that's where you got the idea.

Roger writes that Sean and his wife were among the small group of friends invited to celebrated his knighthood. Back in the late 70s/early 80s I seem to recall the actors expressing an interest in launching joint film venture with their mutual pal Micheal Caine, but it never materialized. And again if we're to trust Roger's memoirs, Sean thought enough of him to agree to a social meeting with Cubby at Roger's house (which didn't go so well, but the fact he'd agree at all is remarkable). There's obviously some level of friendship there, but I wouldn't call them blood brothers.

Frankly, given what I've read about their temperaments and personalities off screen, I'm surprised they have any common ground at all, outside of Bond.

[plankattack]

In SC's defence, where is the big life handbook that says you have to like your boss? Is it really such a crime that SC didn't go to the funeral of someone who he worked for 25 years in the past? Is it such a crime that he felt that he got a raw deal from his bosses/employers? How many of us have ever felt that we knew more than our boss or that he was a plonker?

It's common knowledge that SC felt that he was owed more (financially) from the part and franchise that made him a star, and by extension he helped make successful (can anyone prove that it wasn't a symbiotic relationship?), but I don't think he should be looked upon as a bad guy because he didn't show public respect and gratitude to his bosses. He didn't go to the funeral? To an extent, what's the big deal?

Edited by plankattack, 11 February 2009 - 04:19 PM.

[dee-bee-five]

I don't know why people are "shocked" about Connery not doing anything for the Cubby memorial.

I'm not "shocked" about his not attending, but his reported behaviour was contemptible in my book. He apparently cited professional commitments for his inability to attend, but was (reportedly) actually playing golf. Struck me a bit like Henry VIII going out hunting wearing bright yellow at the exact time one of his wives was being beheaded...

[doublenoughtspy]

I'm not "shocked" about his not attending, but his reported behaviour was contemptible in my book.

Read what Plankattach said.

Shouldn't Connery have done something for Saltzman's passing too?

And let's not forget Ian Fleming's memorial service. Connery didn't attend that either. What an ungrateful S.o.b.!

What about Desmond Llewelyn's memorial service. Connery was absent from that too!

Oh. my. god.

I'll try not to devolve this further, but I hope you get the point.

Sure, I wish Connery had been there or filmed a message. But acting like it was the end of the world - and that Cubby AND ONLY CUBBY were responsible for Connery's success - is ridiculous.

[Mister Asterix]

To hear people speak makes one wonder why hasn’t Connery been put to the electric chair for not attending Cubby’s funeral? Or perhaps some sort of more painful death should be his punishment.

Jeez, get over it, people. If I had a boss that I didn’t get on with die, I wouldn’t attend his funeral either. Now I’ve never had a falling out with a boss like Connery did with Broccoli. But I’ve bosses that I’m merely indifferent about whose funerals I wouldn’t attend and whom I worked with longer than Sean and Cubby worked together.

If Sean didn’t want to attend Cubby’s funeral that’s his business, not mine, and not any of yours either. I understand discussing that Sean didn’t attend to point out how the two didn’t get along, but to call it ‘contemptible’ is ridiculous.

[dee-bee-five]

Well, perhaps I have different standards. But giving the excuse that one couldn't attend a memorial service and then publicly playing golf when said memorial service is taking place strikes me as sticking two fingers up to the deceased. That suggests to me pretty contemptible behaviour... But there we are.

[jaguar007]

I do remember Dana Broccoli stating in an interview that while she was upset that Connery did not come to the memorial, he did call her right after Cubby had died.

Also from what I understand, compared to Connery's relationship with Saltzman, Connery and Cubby were the best of friends.

[Zorin Industries]

In SC's defence, where is the big life handbook that says you have to like your boss? Is it really such a crime that SC didn't go to the funeral of someone who he worked for 25 years in the past? Is it such a crime that he felt that he got a raw deal from his bosses/employers? How many of us have ever felt that we knew more than our boss or that he was a plonker?

It's common knowledge that SC felt that he was owed more (financially) from the part and franchise that made him a star, and by extension he helped make successful (can anyone prove that it wasn't a symbiotic relationship?), but I don't think he should be looked upon as a bad guy because he didn't show public respect and gratitude to his bosses. He didn't go to the funeral? To an extent, what's the big deal?

Sean Connery wouldn't be a known name or a bankable commodity without Eon and the Bond films. And as he appears to be someone who prizes his money particularly highly, he should remember what a milk man in Edinburgh gets for a week's work as opposed to a world famous movie star.

I agree that he shouldn't be obliged to his bosses for ever more. But a little more decency, respect and loyalty would not go amiss in the movie world let alone everywhere else.

[doublenoughtspy]

And it is also worth remembering that it was neither of them who pushed for Connery to be cast in the first instance. It was Dana Broccoli, Cubby's wife. She was the one who saw something in a bit-part, c-list matinee idol. She is also the one who requested Connery have some input into Cubby's memorial. He allegedly chose not to (which is his choice). But manners and decency cost nothing.

I think you are exaggerating Dana Broccoli's input. Cubby stated that he asked her opinion and that she was very positive about Connery. Was Dana involved in the process and a vote for Sean? Sure.

But acting like she was the one that won over Cubby, Harry, and United Artists is simply not true.

As JFK said - "Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan" - I've heard of a lot of people who take credit for suggesting Connery as Bond.

And regarding the memorial - I believe Donald Zec points out in Cubby's biography that Connery was one of the first people to call Dana with his condolences after Cubby died.

That to me is more important than attending a memorial service.

And if you look at the coverage of the service - 90% of the press I saw focused on the Bond actors, rather than on the man being memorialized.

[jaguar007]

Sean Connery wouldn't be a known name or a bankable commodity without Eon and the Bond films. And as he appears to be someone who prizes his money particularly highly, he should remember what a milk man in Edinburgh gets for a week's work as opposed to a world famous movie star.

I agree that he shouldn't be obliged to his bosses for ever more. But a little more decency, respect and loyalty would not go amiss in the movie world let alone everywhere else.

That is hard to know for sure. Connery was not exactly an out of work actor when he was cast as Bond. For all we know, had he not got Bond, he may have still been an A list actor (after all there are many A list actors who were never cast as Bond).

And if you look at the coverage of the service - 90% of the press I saw focused on the Bond actors, rather than on the man being memorialized.

So true.

Of course Timothy Dalton was the only Bond that actually attended Cubby's funeral.

[Zorin Industries]

To hear people speak makes one wonder why hasn’t Connery been put to the electric chair for not attending Cubby’s funeral? Or perhaps some sort of more painful death should be his punishment.

Jeez, get over it, people. If I had a boss that I didn’t get on with die, I wouldn’t attend his funeral either. Now I’ve never had a falling out with a boss like Connery did with Broccoli. But I’ve bosses that I’m merely indifferent about whose funerals I wouldn’t attend and whom I worked with longer than Sean and Cubby worked together.

If Sean didn’t want to attend Cubby’s funeral that’s his business, not mine, and not any of yours either. I understand discussing that Sean didn’t attend to point out how the two didn’t get along, but to call it ‘contemptible’ is ridiculous.

I agree to a degree here, but we are not talking normal working relationships here. This is the movie business. People's characters remain the same as any other industry, workplace, office or shop. But their salaries, their perks, their lifestyles, their futures and their ability to nab the best table in the best restaurants dramatically change. Connery was not a commodity then (DARBY O'GILL AND THE LITTLE PEOPLE would not have seen him guest cameo on THE COLBYS let alone later secure an Oscar). But Cubby Broccoli, Dana Broccoli, Harry Saltzman, John Picker and Terence Young put their reputations on the line for Sean Connery when they spoke up for him instead of Cary Grant or James Mason.

Cubby Broccoli's funeral was a day of former colleagues paying their respects in person and some (Robert Wagner, Prince Charles, John Barry etc) "being there" via the wonders of pre-recorded video or read-out letters. Connery could have done that. It would have been the decent thing to do.

Connery chose to keep himself out of the equation here. That is fine. That is his choice. That is not (wholly) to be criticised. But....if someone wants to distance themselves from a character and series of films they really need to try a little better than taking the money to voice a computer game based on FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE in recent years.

[doublenoughtspy]

"What I'm really tired of is a lot of fat slob producers living off the back of lean actors" - Sean Connery in 1966

"I find it difficult to understand Sean, why he has been so angry. It's very strange. I never did understand it; I guess he has his own route. He did call me from Europe when Cubby died and said: 'I'm so sorry'; I appreciated that. But the distributors were the people who had his money. Cubby did everything to make him happy; we had a contract for Sean to do a non-Bond film and Cubby gave that up to let him do Marnie with Hitchcock...Cubby was very fair with him. But I don't have to understand Sean and he doesn't need my understanding; he's doing very well without my understanding." - Dana Broccoli in 2000

[Jim]

I have no plans to come to any of your memorial services, so think of me what you will.

[plankattack]

Connery chose to keep himself out of the equation here. That is fine. That is his choice. That is not (wholly) to be criticised. But....if someone wants to distance themselves from a character and series of films they really need to try a little better than taking the money to voice a computer game based on FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE in recent years.

While I still feel that it's SC's choice to attend or not, and I do feel that it's a little presumptious of the rest of to pass judgement on his decision (and again, I don't have an issue with him not attending), I do agree with Zorin on the "fluctuating" relationship between SC and Bond the franchise/character.

If there is criticism to be levelled at SC's actions, there is a case to be made about his behaviour in the late 70s/early 80s with Warhead/NSNA, and then turning around and taking the money from EON down the road. There is something here in regards to professional courtesy. But as too personal courtesy, he chose not to go to a funeral, for whatever reason he had. And without us knowing those reasons, who are we to put the boot in?

As for who should get the ultimate credit for the birth of Bond....yes Cubby and Harry gave SC his chance, but after that moment alot of people are responsible for sending the film series into orbit. As the lead, you can't fault SC for feeling that he deserves a chunk of the credit. Let's be honest, no-one walks out of the cinema going "the producer/studio, heck even, writer, did a great job on that one." No, the first reaction is "yeah, the guy who played Bond/Batman/Inspector Clouseau, whoever, was great." I'm not saying that's right, but that's human. So I can't fault SC for feeling as he does.

A lot of people want to have a pop at Connery for being a "money-grabber" etc when discussing his tenure as Bond. But how many of us go to work without wishing we were paid more?

[David_M]

I'm sure everyone can relate to feeling underpaid. I think what irks some folks is the notion that Connery would hold onto a grudge even beyond the grave.

In fairness, though, we don't know for sure that he did. He says he made his peace with Cubby, Dana said he offered sympathies. The memorial service was a public affair and as such there would be one reason for attending; to make a public display of tribute and/or reconciliation with Cubby. As far as we know, Connery didn't consider that necessary; if he made up with Cubby, that was between the two men, and there was no need to show up at a public service to "prove" to the world that their relationship was all patched up.

It's different with Roger and Dalton, who were always on good terms with Cubby. They could attend the event and merely add star power. But if Connery showed up, every newspaper report would print (and probably lead with) some stupid line like "Connery forgives Broccoli in death" (or something even more insultingly stupid like "James Bond has made peace with his oldest foe"), just as by not showing up he guaranteed the press would say, "Ooooh, Sean is still so mad he wouldn't even show up." Basically he couldn't win. By calling Dana -- which he didn't have to do -- he showed compassion to the person who mattered most.

I must say I've never really read anything about Connery that suggests I'd want to spend time in his immediate vicinity, however much I may enjoy his work on screen. But I always wonder how much of that is a case of the press keeping Connery in the 007 Box they've always had him in. They seem to delight in stories that show him as a macho, misogynistic and pugilistic avatar of the 1960s male, regardless of the date. Somehow it's hard for me to believe he spends every day beating his wife, cursing out shopkeepers and taking people to court.

[Santa]

you can't fault SC for feeling that he deserves a chunk of the credit.

Of course you can't, but he seems to have forgotten that he GOT a chunk of the credit, far more than any of the other actors who have played Bond (probably rightly so). I find this whinging about 'lean actors' a bit disingenuous. He did very well out of Bond financially (it's not like he was on minimum wage here, he was the highest paid actor in the world at one point) and he also did very well out of Bond career wise. He has complained about being typecast after Bond but let's not forget that he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before 1962 - yes, he'd had a few parts and who knows, he could have done very well without Bond but the fact remains that Bond opened every door for him in his career, heck, it even coined a well-known phrase, "best Bond since Sean Connery", used for every actor since by various people, and probably forevermore. Whether he likes it or not (and this is the problem, he appears not to), Bond made him just as much as he made Bond. It wouldn't hurt him to come down off his high horse a little bit.

[DAN LIGHTER]

When I said in my earlier post that I was shocked to learn Sean Connery didnt attend I was more shocked to have found out they had fallen out. It was news to me. Something I was not aware off until yesterday. I was also shocked to learn Roger Moore didnt get on like a house on fire with Harry. I guess I thought the Bond actors and producers was all one big happy family.

Edited by DAN LIGHTER, 11 February 2009 - 07:02 PM.

[plankattack]

you can't fault SC for feeling that he deserves a chunk of the credit.

Of course you can't, but he seems to have forgotten that he GOT a chunk of the credit, far more than any of the other actors who have played Bond (probably rightly so). I find this whinging about 'lean actors' a bit disingenuous. He did very well out of Bond financially (it's not like he was on minimum wage here, he was the highest paid actor in the world at one point) and he also did very well out of Bond career wise. He has complained about being typecast after Bond but let's not forget that he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before 1962 - yes, he'd had a few parts and who knows, he could have done very well without Bond but the fact remains that Bond opened every door for him in his career, heck, it even coined a well-known phrase, "best Bond since Sean Connery", used for every actor since by various people, and probably forevermore. Whether he likes it or not (and this is the problem, he appears not to), Bond made him just as much as he made Bond. It wouldn't hurt him to come down off his high horse a little bit.

Santa, I agree with you entirely, which is why I think the more interesting topic is Connery's relationship with EON 1962 through to the video game - rather all this hand-wringing and character judgement because of his behaviour re: Cubby's passing. I find details of the former fascinating; but as for the latter, none of us know enough of SC's personal thoughts towards Cubby to comment on his behaviour.

But again, Connery did do well off Bond, I don't think that's open to dispute. The trade-unionist inside me believes he has every right to want to do better. We can call him greedy, but we can't call him wrong or a bad person.

And as for the notion that he should be grateful considering the alternatives (milkman, merchant seaman, body-builder, bit-part actor) - that to me is entirely false. For me, the thought of those alternatives would have me attempting to get as much as I could to ensure that they didn't become the only avenues open to me.

[jaguar007]

It's different with Roger and Dalton, who were always on good terms with Cubby. They could attend the event and merely add star power. But if Connery showed up, every newspaper report would print (and probably lead with) some stupid line like "Connery forgives Broccoli in death" (or something even more insultingly stupid like "James Bond has made peace with his oldest foe"), just as by not showing up he guaranteed the press would say, "Ooooh, Sean is still so mad he wouldn't even show up." Basically he couldn't win. By calling Dana -- which he didn't have to do -- he showed compassion to the person who mattered most.

Good point. Had Connery shown up all the media attention would have focused on him.

[I never miss]

Sean has always been a tough cookie, right from the moment he banged on Saltzman and Broccoli's desk in Oct 1961 and demanded more money for the role of Bond. Who else would've dared to do that? Sean has always been his own man, and doesn't seem to give a sh%t what anyone else thinks about him or his actions. Is Roger Moore a nicer person that Sean? Yes, most probably. Was Roger a better big-screen incarnation of a spy with a license to kill? No, not in the view of the majority.
My point - not sure if I have one really... Ah yes - Sean's animal-like toughness (one of his most admirable qualities when playing Bond) doesn't exactly win him new friends and admirers as a person. He's pretty much always been that way, and he ain't gonna change now.