137 replies to this topic

[Lazenby]

There have been a few Bond scenes over the years that have been perplexing, confusing, embarrassing, or just inane, but the scene in QOS where Bond disposes of Mathis is most definitely the worst and most disturbing scene ever in a Bond movie.

In the Bond series, sometimes the only thing that separated Bond from the villains was the few moments that he showed humanity. Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan showed it in their film either through anger or caring. Bond dumping a body in a dumpster and taking the money out of his wallet is just WRONG!

EON and Marc Forster just did something that has never been done before in 22 movies and approximately 10 directors: make James Bond into a common thug. There was absolutely no reason to dump the body in a dumpster. Whether the body was found lying next to 2 cops or in a dumpster did not matter. And taking Mathis’ money? Does Bond really need the cash? I know they cut off his credit, but he still managed to get to Italy and wear sharp suits.

Disgusting scene that served no purpose. Shame on you Marc Forster for giving James Bond a scene that dropped him to the level of a street gangster in a B movie.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Relax Lazenby, I get why you're offended but I think there is an explanation. He took the money to make the death look like it was perpetrated by a street thug so he can continue the mission without further complications from local authorities; Mathis was a pro and he and Bond shared similiar views on life and death(they're both probably athiests who understand rationally that once you die you are dead and cannot be offended or pleased by how your empty vessel or body is treated). Remember the scene in CR when Mathis says even "the dead can be useful"...in any other genre this would seem offensive to me too but these are spies who live high risk lives. I understood Bond's action but I didn't neccessarily like that Mathis died in the first place...Remember, Bond is on a mission and must always remain "detatched" in oder to complete the mission so spare me this sentimental rubbish! He knew the risks!

[Lazenby]

Relax Lazenby, I get why you're offended but I think there is an explanation. He took the money to make the death look like it was perpetrated by a street thug so he can continue the mission without further complications from local authorities; Mathis was a pro and he and Bond shared similiar views on life and death(they're both probably athiests who understand rationally that once you die you are dead and cannot be offended or pleased by how your empty vessel or body is treated). Remember the scene in CR when Mathis says even "the dead can be useful"...in any other genre this would seem offensive to me too but these are spies who live high risk lives. I understood Bond's action but I didn't neccessarily like that Mathis died in the first place...Remember, Bond is on a mission and must always remain "detatched" in oder to complete the mission so spare me this sentimental rubbish! He knew the risks!

I understand your point, but in the next scene, M is advised by Tanner that the authorities have just informed him that Bond shot Mathis and the 2 officers. No thugs were mentioned. If they were, I would totally understand.

[BlackFire]

Yea, I know how you feel, many people at theater started to murmur and so, but like Tarl_Cabot said, Bond had a reason, and Mathis died happy for being in peace with 007.

[mccartney007]

Mathis really needed that cash after he died, didn't he?

[zencat]

I liked it. I got it. These men are spies. They understand each other. They understand they live in a world of constant danger and can't afford a moment of sentimentality for their targets, or themselves. They both accept they will probably end up dead in a dumpster somewhere in South America and have no problems with it. To them, it would be a "spies death."

Bond needs to get on. He needs to get himself out of danger and back on the mission and needs to take whatever will help him. Mathis would understand, and "he wouldn't mind." That line that makes the scene work (for me at least). I actually find this one of best, ballsiest, and smartest scenes in the Bond film canon, and VERY Fleming.

[HildebrandRarity]

...the scene in QOS where Bond disposes of Mathis is most definitely the...most disturbing scene ever in a Bond movie.

Good! It's about time they got away from the fantasy of having Bond bowing his head when a loved one gets shot in the head.

I liked it.

I actually find this one of best, ballsiest, and smartest scenes in the Bond film canon, and VERY Fleming.

I agree with Zencat!

[MkB]

I liked it. I got it. These men are spies. They understand each other. They understand they live in a world of constant danger and can't afford a moment of sentimentality for their targets, or themselves. They both accept they will probably end up dead in a dumpster somewhere in South America and have no problems with it. To them, it would be a "spies death."

Bond needs to get on. He needs to get himself out of danger and back on the mission and needs to take whatever will help him. Mathis would understand, and "he wouldn't mind." That line that makes the scene work (for me at least). I actually find this one of best, ballsiest, and smartest scenes in the Bond film canon, and VERY Fleming.

Actually, I have no problem with Bond dumping his friend's body in a dumpster, but I am disappointed that this move is pointless. If there would any sensible reason for Bond to do so (and if the screenwriter had been so kind as to let us know this reason), I'd also rate it as "one of best, ballsiest, and smartest scenes in the Bond film canon, and VERY Fleming", but the way it is I feel the emotional tension is wasted. Not to mention the "Was Mathis your real name?" dialogue, that just made people confused. Really, my feeling, as a moviegoer, is that there's a problem with the writing of this scene.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I liked it. I got it. These men are spies. They understand each other. They understand they live in a world of constant danger and can't afford a moment of sentimentality for their targets, or themselves. They both accept they will probably end up dead in a dumpster somewhere in South America and have no problems with it. To them, it would be a "spies death."

Bond needs to get on. He needs to get himself out of danger and back on the mission and needs to take whatever will help him. Mathis would understand, and "he wouldn't mind." That line that makes the scene work (for me at least). I actually find this one of best, ballsiest, and smartest scenes in the Bond film canon, and VERY Fleming.

What he said.

[tdalton]

I liked it. I got it. These men are spies. They understand each other. They understand they live in a world of constant danger and can't afford a moment of sentimentality for their targets, or themselves. They both accept they will probably end up dead in a dumpster somewhere in South America and have no problems with it. To them, it would be a "spies death."

Bond needs to get on. He needs to get himself out of danger and back on the mission and needs to take whatever will help him. Mathis would understand, and "he wouldn't mind." That line that makes the scene work (for me at least). I actually find this one of best, ballsiest, and smartest scenes in the Bond film canon, and VERY Fleming.

Completely agreed.

[[dark]]

Please post spoilers in the appropriate place and label them accordingly.

[dogmanstar]

I liked it. I got it. These men are spies. They understand each other. They understand they live in a world of constant danger and can't afford a moment of sentimentality for their targets, or themselves. They both accept they will probably end up dead in a dumpster somewhere in South America and have no problems with it. To them, it would be a "spies death."

Bond needs to get on. He needs to get himself out of danger and back on the mission and needs to take whatever will help him. Mathis would understand, and "he wouldn't mind." That line that makes the scene work (for me at least). I actually find this one of best, ballsiest, and smartest scenes in the Bond film canon, and VERY Fleming.

I agree, Zencat. I think QoS is a lot more sophisticated about death than many of the other Bonds--the shot that follows after the furious fight in the hotel, with the newly dead Steele--lingers uncomfortably on the body; his dead eyes staring at us asking for answers (very DAF, one might say).

The point to me--is that death is senseless and Bond knows this. He has been on the other end before and has killed people's friends, lovers, brothers, fathers and 'Mathis's'--as has Mathis. This scene speaks volumes, not about Bond's moralilty, but about the kind of dirty business these men are in. I see putting Mathis in the dumpster as a sad resignation to a plain fact--much like the malaise that Fleming's Bond shows when he has to kill as part of his job but does not care for it.

[HildebrandRarity]

Actually, I have no problem with Bond dumping his friend's body in a dumpster, but I am disappointed that this move is pointless.

Not to mention the "Was Mathis your real name?" dialogue, that just made people confused.

Why was it pointless?

It gave him time, even if it were a minute or two, for some form of misdirection with the corrupt authorities when they would inevitably arrive on the scene.

It made up for the time which he spent comforting Mathis ("please, stay with me") and gently cradling him in has arms as he died.

Bond asking "Is Mathis your cover name?" was more to continue their final conversation so they could verbally wrap up everything...leave nothing unsaid.

Bond took the money becasue he needed as much of it as possible to escape danger. Remember, his credit cards had been cancelled by M.

It's a fantasticly rich moment in Bond history and Quantum - and the series itself - would be poorer without it.

[Matt_13]

The only question I have with this scene is the cover name bit of dialogue. I don't think I have it correct in thinking that this means Mathis was his cover name for MI-6 and Quantum (meaning he's a double agent who "worked" for both). I have no problems with the scene itself, as it is arguably one of the most heavily emotion fueled scenes in the series (teetering on even being better than Vesper's death though still falling a little short). Like zencat said, very Fleming.

[MkB]

Why was it pointless?

What you haven't been pointless would have been, for instance, to set up the bodies as to make the police believe that Mathis did kill the cops during a shootout, when he was also shot by the cops. This would have given Bond some more time. Putting the body in a dumpster, and leaving two dead cops in the middle of the street only means one thing: it is not the dead cops who have killed man in the dumpster, and the police has to search for another man who flew away, leaving 2 cops and an unidentified body behind.
This would have been as ballsy and bold, IMO, with Bond using his dead friend's body to set up a scene and help him get away, but it would make far more sense.

[YOLT]

There have been a few Bond scenes over the years that have been perplexing, confusing, embarrassing, or just inane, but the scene in QOS where Bond disposes of Mathis is most definitely the worst and most disturbing scene ever in a Bond movie.

In the Bond series, sometimes the only thing that separated Bond from the villains was the few moments that he showed humanity. Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan showed it in their film either through anger or caring. Bond dumping a body in a dumpster and taking the money out of his wallet is just WRONG!

EON and Marc Forster just did something that has never been done before in 22 movies and approximately 10 directors: make James Bond into a common thug. There was absolutely no reason to dump the body in a dumpster. Whether the body was found lying next to 2 cops or in a dumpster did not matter. And taking Mathis’ money? Does Bond really need the cash? I know they cut off his credit, but he still managed to get to Italy and wear sharp suits.

Disgusting scene that served no purpose. Shame on you Marc Forster for giving James Bond a scene that dropped him to the level of a street gangster in a B movie.

Well it was more shocking to see Lazenby cleaned away by the blood in the gunbarell scene. That also never happened. The producers just knew something

[Captain Tightpants]

EON and Marc Forster just did something that has never been done before in 22 movies and approximately 10 directors: make James Bond into a common thug. There was absolutely no reason to dump the body in a dumpster. Whether the body was found lying next to 2 cops or in a dumpster did not matter. And taking Mathis’ money? Does Bond really need the cash? I know they cut off his credit, but he still managed to get to Italy and wear sharp suits.

Disgusting scene that served no purpose. Shame on you Marc Forster for giving James Bond a scene that dropped him to the level of a street gangster in a B movie.

Actually, there was every need for it. Bond cottoned on very quickly that Greene had friends in high places, like the police force, when they had him open the boot of the car. He knew they were setting him up, and he knew he needed every moment he could get. Dumping Mathis' body like that and staging his death as a robbery might only buy him a few precious moments, but he needed them.

[Stainless Steel Teeth INC]

The fact that this particular scene has been discussed at great length already just proves exactly how powerful it is regardless of your interpretation.

On my first viewing it was the single most powerful moment in the film and stuck with me for several days after. The money issue (as has already been stated) speaks for itself and is a simple case of practicality, one in which a trained agent has to think on his feet and avails himself of whatever opportunity presents itself. After all, his credit cards were blocked and petrol does not come cheap.

The issue of the 'dumpster' is the most contentious and has been taken on many different levels. I can only go on MY initial opinion as it was the most instinctive.

I did not find the 'dumping' disrespectful as Mathis was obviously a colleague Bond had come to respect. Had he of just simply left him on the floor alongside his murderers I might have thought otherwise. Whether the hiding (?) of the body was to buy a little time or not I don't know but the final aerial shot gave me an image of a burial albeit one that could be (and has been) construed differently.

I just simply viewed it as a way of Bond separating and creating a distinction between a man and his murderers and the closest he could offer as a funeral.

But this is just my personal take on it and I look forward to a DVD directors commentary that offers Forster's view.

[Bill]

It was indeed a disturbing scene, and even if Bond wanted to make it look like a robbery, there was no need to toss the body into a dumpster. Totally out of character for Bond.

Tarl_Cabot, I respectfully take issue with your statement that Bond is probably an atheist. Just check this own site at http://commanderbond.net/article/4894

Bill

[dogmanstar]

It's also an aesthetically arresting image--the arial shot with the lines of the dumpster framing Mathis' body. Perhaps Forster was just being fancy?

[Mr. Blofeld]

In a dumpster? Fancy that.

[HildebrandRarity]

There have been a few Bond scenes over the years that have been perplexing, confusing, embarrassing, or just inane, but ... the worst ... scene ever in a Bond movie...

Well it was more shocking to see Lazenby cleaned away by the blood in the gunbarell scene. That also never happened. The producers just knew something

The worst single scene ever in a Bond movie is when Lazenby turns to the camera and says "This never happened to the other fella..."

Junk!

The worst and most cringe-worthy of the in-joke one liners and the single worst moment ever in a Bond movie!!!

[Loomis]

Relax Lazenby, I get why you're offended but I think there is an explanation. He took the money to make the death look like it was perpetrated by a street thug so he can continue the mission without further complications from local authorities; Mathis was a pro and he and Bond shared similiar views on life and death(they're both probably athiests who understand rationally that once you die you are dead and cannot be offended or pleased by how your empty vessel or body is treated). Remember the scene in CR when Mathis says even "the dead can be useful"...in any other genre this would seem offensive to me too but these are spies who live high risk lives. I understood Bond's action but I didn't neccessarily like that Mathis died in the first place...Remember, Bond is on a mission and must always remain "detatched" in oder to complete the mission so spare me this sentimental rubbish! He knew the risks!

Perfectly put, Tarl.

Likewise, if Mathis' cover had been blown and he'd been brought by the villains to Bond in order to get an explanation from 007, our hero would have denied any knowledge of Mathis' existence, even if it meant that Mathis would be shot dead before his very eyes. Same goes for Mathis. These people are not thugs or monsters, but they dont just talk the talk - they also walk the walk, and they play to win.

Duty has no sweethearts.

The only thing Mathis would have cared about was getting killed, but Bond is there for him as a friend as he dies, doing as much as he can for him. Mathis would not have given a sod about whether, once dead, he ended up under the sod.

[Mr. Blofeld]

There have been a few Bond scenes over the years that have been perplexing, confusing, embarrassing, or just inane, but ... the worst ... scene ever in a Bond movie...

Well it was more shocking to see Lazenby cleaned away by the blood in the gunbarell scene. That also never happened. The producers just knew something

The worst single scene ever in a Bond movie is when Lazenby turns to the camera and says "This never happened to the other fella..."

Junk!

The worst and most cringe-worthy of the in-joke one liners and the single worst moment ever in a Bond movie!!!

Erm... is that a joke? I've always loved that scene.

[Stainless Steel Teeth INC]

If we're going to bring up the single most disturbing moment in a Bond film then I nominate the muppet who thought it was a witty idea to add the swan whistle on the bridge jump in TMWTGG.

One of the most outstanding car stunts ever captured on film cheapened by a comedy sound effect.

[HildebrandRarity]

If we're going to bring up the single most disturbing moment in a Bond film then I nominate the muppet who thought it was a witty idea to add the swan whistle on the bridge jump in TMWTGG.

One of the most outstanding car stunts ever captured on film cheapened by a comedy sound effect.

It's rivalled for second place by Bond yelling like Tarzan as he swings from vine to vine in Octopussy!

*Shudders with dread*

[DamnCoffee]

EON and Marc Forster just did something that has never been done before in 22 movies and approximately 10 directors: make James Bond into a common thug. There was absolutely no reason to dump the body in a dumpster. Whether the body was found lying next to 2 cops or in a dumpster did not matter. And taking Mathis’ money? Does Bond really need the cash? I know they cut off his credit, but he still managed to get to Italy and wear sharp suits.

Right...

1) Mathis was laid in the middle of a road, a bus could've drove past and completely spreaded him across it.

2) Bond needed the cash to hire the DC3

[Bondian]

Right...
2) Bond needed the cash to hire the DC3

Shame Bond neglected to check if there were sufficient parachutes.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

I'm not particularly like this scene from QOS, but overall I understand the aim of this. It serves to show how professional (and could) is at this time, unlike like he was in CR for instance when he had 'feelings' after killing the africans.

And I defenitely prefer this to some gorish scenes from LTK, like the death of Milton Krest. That seemed to me pretty disturbing, tacky and unnecessary.

[00Twelve]

I liked it. I got it. These men are spies. They understand each other. They understand they live in a world of constant danger and can't afford a moment of sentimentality for their targets, or themselves. They both accept they will probably end up dead in a dumpster somewhere in South America and have no problems with it. To them, it would be a "spies death."

Bond needs to get on. He needs to get himself out of danger and back on the mission and needs to take whatever will help him. Mathis would understand, and "he wouldn't mind." That line that makes the scene work (for me at least). I actually find this one of best, ballsiest, and smartest scenes in the Bond film canon, and VERY Fleming.

Yep. This sums it right up.