50 replies to this topic

[mister-white]

Okay, I've had a few problems with the QoS Pre-title, mainly because it doesn't give audience members a refresher of what happened in CR (I mean, would it have killed them to put in Vesper's death and the Bond/ Mr. White meeting?) but I found two major problems that hurt the fact that it's supposed to be within minutes of CR's ending.

Problem #1- What's with the change of suit? At CR's conclusion, Bond was wearing a nice three- piece suit, which looked a lot like one that Connery wore in Goldfinger (except for a change of colour). But in the QoS opening, he was wearing a two- piece suit. Major design flaw. When would Bond have time to get changed?

Problem #2 (The bigger problem)- Where did the Aston Martin come from? I mean, the DBS was destroyed in CR with the barrel roll, but virtually the same car- make, model, colour and everything- was back here. I don't think Bond had made any contact with MI6 or Q branch. So where did the new Aston Martin come from?

[tdalton]

Well, I don't think that there is an answer for the first question. I think that it's just a case of the filmmakers changing tailors for Bond in between films. As for the second question, it's never stated in Casino Royale as to when Bond's encounter with Mr. White takes place. The way that I look at it is that Quantum of Solace takes place in 2008, as does the ending of Casino Royale, and that it took Bond roughly two years to track down Mr. White in between the phone call to M and the confrontation with Mr. White at the end of CR. During these two years, surely Bond made contact with MI6 and probably got a new car, etc.

Edited by tdalton, 21 December 2008 - 08:16 AM.

[Captain Tightpants]

Problem #1- What's with the change of suit? At CR's conclusion, Bond was wearing a nice three- piece suit, which looked a lot like one that Connery wore in Goldfinger (except for a change of colour). But in the QoS opening, he was wearing a two- piece suit. Major design flaw. When would Bond have time to get changed?

It would have been rude for Bond to wear a Brioni suit when Tom Ford was the designer for he film. Likewise, it would have been rude to ask Ford to re-create another label's clothing exactly. They had a close approximation, which was deemed good enough.

Problem #2 (The bigger problem)- Where did the Aston Martin come from? I mean, the DBS was destroyed in CR with the barrel roll, but virtually the same car- make, model, colour and everything- was back here. I don't think Bond had made any contact with MI6 or Q branch. So where did the new Aston Martin come from?

It can be assumed that some time elapsed between the scene on the yacht where Bond found White's phone number, and the epilogue of CASINO ROAYLE. CR itself akes place roughly over the course of a month, from Bond's adventures in Madagascar (you can see the date of the news report), which takes place after the first running of the Palio di Siena; thus, the epilogue and QUANTUM OF SOLACE take place the day of the second running. With most of the time in between un-acocunted for (it is never stated how long Bond spent in recovery, for example), and M's knowledge of Bond going after White (she doesn't question Bond as to who White is, and even knows White's name), there would have been more than enough time for a second Aston Martin to find its way to Bond. In short, Bond didn't go straight from the yacht to White's villa; he drove there in a second Aston provided by M.

[dinovelvet]

Okay, I've had a few problems with the QoS Pre-title, mainly because it doesn't give audience members a refresher of what happened in CR (I mean, would it have killed them to put in Vesper's death and the Bond/ Mr. White meeting?) but I found two major problems that hurt the fact that it's supposed to be within minutes of CR's ending.

Problem #1- What's with the change of suit? At CR's conclusion, Bond was wearing a nice three- piece suit, which looked a lot like one that Connery wore in Goldfinger (except for a change of colour). But in the QoS opening, he was wearing a two- piece suit. Major design flaw. When would Bond have time to get changed?

Bond stopped off at Starbucks on the way to Siena, and there was too much whipped cream on his mocha, which spilled onto his suit. Not wanting to appear unpresentable, Bond changed into his emergency tailored suit that he keeps close at all times.

Problem #2 (The bigger problem)- Where did the Aston Martin come from? I mean, the DBS was destroyed in CR with the barrel roll, but virtually the same car- make, model, colour and everything- was back here. I don't think Bond had made any contact with MI6 or Q branch. So where did the new Aston Martin come from?

I assumed MI6 gave it to him, maybe its their standard issue car for 00s. Now, here's the thing. Even though Qos DOES start just minutes after CR ends, there is presumably some time in between the moment Bond is sitting on the boat talking to M on the phone and the scene where Bond shoots Mr.White at his villa. Presumably Bond had to trace the number, get the aforementioned new car, maybe observe White's movements for a while, and elsewhere, Mathis would have been cleared, released, and retired. Probably a couple of weeks.

[Safari Suit]

Bond stopped off at Starbucks on the way to Siena, and there was too much whipped cream on his mocha, which spilled onto his suit. Not wanting to appear unpresentable, Bond changed into his emergency tailored suit that he keeps close at all times.

I was going to say this. I thought it was obvious? That said I thought it was a cappuccino.

[007_Solace]

Bond did not track down White the same day he found the message on Vespers phone. One of the scences in Solace had the date 2008 in it, so it was probably 2 years until he found White. The end of CS was 2 years after Vesper died.

This also explains, the new car, new suit, the fact Bond is not as "big" as he was at the start of CS and the fact Mathis is living in another country now. Did you think Mathis was interrigated and then given a new house in a simple few hours?

[[dark]]

Well, I don't think that there is an answer for the first question. I think that it's just a case of the filmmakers changing tailors for Bond in between films. As for the second question, it's never stated in Casino Royale as to when Bond's encounter with Mr. White takes place. The way that I look at it is that Quantum of Solace takes place in 2008, as does the ending of Casino Royale, and that it took Bond roughly two years to track down Mr. White in between the phone call to M and the confrontation with Mr. White at the end of CR. During these two years, surely Bond made contact with MI6 and probably got a new car, etc.

This is the way I look at it. It also explains MI6's flash new headquarters.

[sorking]

Bond did not track down White the same day he found the message on Vespers phone. One of the scences in Solace had the date 2008 in it, so it was probably 2 years until he found White. The end of CS was 2 years after Vesper died.

The time between the end of CR and QoS isn't intended to be a matter of years - there's an entire running thread that Bond hasn't slept since Vesper was killed. I have no problem in this going on a week later; I really don't buy it's been months or years!

But let's face it, on-screen dates aren't in the script. They're knocked up by the props or graphics departments as and when needed - and since Bond is never intended to be a 'period' piece, always taking place 'now', you can't rreally expect them to build two years of time passing in the story simply to account for how long it takes to make and release a film.

This also explains, the new car, new suit, the fact Bond is not as "big" as he was at the start of CS and the fact Mathis is living in another country now. Did you think Mathis was interrigated and then given a new house in a simple few hours?

Did you really think Bond hadn't slept for two years? That it took that long to find White despite Bond still using Vesper's phone to do so? (Which is a quick job, as demonstrated in the first act of CR.)

The change of suit isn't explained by the time change you mention anyway, since the suit shifts between White being shot in the leg and being driven to the safe-house. As Captain Tightpants points out it's a logistical issue, and close enough that nobody really noticed. (And seriously, what and awful idea it would have been to do a 'previously on James Bond' opening recap...)

The car's perfectly justified since Bond is on the job for MI6 - when he picks up White, M is already in Sienna. So he's been issued a new standard vehicle in the days after Vesper's death...fair enough, since he needs to apprehend White.

"It's only a film" is the ACTUAL answer, of course.

[007_Solace]

Only a film, yep. Though you and this not sleeping thing is crap. Who said he did not sleep til he found him? I didn't. So don't ask me did I think he did not sleep for 2 years. Prop or no prop, its likey a few years before he found him.

[Professor Pi]

I was wondering about this too, but it's the Mathis time line that seems more critical. Given how many times and how quickly Bond changes his shirts (and suit) in Casino Royale's poker game due to blood, sweat, Vesper's tears & showers, it seems reasonable that he might have an extra Tom Ford suit in the trunk of a a new MI6-provided Aston Martin. Since M says it looks like bond hadn't slept during the interrogation of White, I think all the Italy scenes in both films happen within a week. I think the largest time lapse in QoS is between Haiti and Austria, thus giving Bond time to pool personal resources, finances, and make travel arrangements once he's cut off from MI6, and Mathis is the only one left he can trust.

As for the CR recap, this should have been handled in the titles scene like OHMSS showing clips from other Bond films. It could have been done in black and white, thereby recalling CR's pre-title sequence too.

[byline]

Okay, I've had a few problems with the QoS Pre-title, mainly because it doesn't give audience members a refresher of what happened in CR (I mean, would it have killed them to put in Vesper's death and the Bond/ Mr. White meeting?) but I found two major problems that hurt the fact that it's supposed to be within minutes of CR's ending.

Personally, I'm glad we didn't have any flashback scenes. I was a bit worried we were headed in that direction with Bond and Mathis on the plane, but thankfully, they didn't go there. Really, how many people who watched "Quantum of Solace" hadn't previously seen "Casino Royale"? I'm sure there were a few, but I seriously doubt that it was a majority, so IMO it would have been superfluous. Did you really forget the details of all that happened in "Casino Royale"?

Problem #1- What's with the change of suit? At CR's conclusion, Bond was wearing a nice three- piece suit, which looked a lot like one that Connery wore in Goldfinger (except for a change of colour). But in the QoS opening, he was wearing a two- piece suit. Major design flaw. When would Bond have time to get changed?

I've often wondered if that was simply due to the change in tailors, and a question over how close they were allowed to come to the suit in the previous film. I know that a suit is a suit is a suit is a suit, but if there were obvious attempts to copy it, mightn't that result in a lawsuit? Dunno, just asking. If that's the case, then maybe they decided to go with an obviously clean slate in order to avoid that risk. That's the only reason I could come up with for why they would have made that change.

Problem #2 (The bigger problem)- Where did the Aston Martin come from? I mean, the DBS was destroyed in CR with the barrel roll, but virtually the same car- make, model, colour and everything- was back here. I don't think Bond had made any contact with MI6 or Q branch. So where did the new Aston Martin come from?

I don't have much of a problem with that. M sent him that first car, so it stands to reason that she could've had a second car from the same source delivered to him.

[Bucky]

the only sort of flashback i would have accepted would have been showing the last few minutes of casino royale from bonds point of view leading up to him confronting mr white.

[Bondian]

I had an idea of how they could have done a kind of flashback in this thread.

http://debrief.comma...p...c=52139&hl=

[sorking]

Only a film, yep. Though you and this not sleeping thing is crap. Who said he did not sleep til he found him? I didn't.

Is it really necessary to be so rude? What's crap? That Bond hasn't slept? It's discussed in the film, several times. So what's the problem exactly?

To wholly support the 'two year' theory when it doesn't explain the suit, as you suggested, and wholly ignores dialogue in the movie...well, it's daft. The filmmakers have made some errors that mean neither answer - 'a few days' or 'two years' - is completely satisfactory. And insulting people is no way to prove your point.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I'd say a couple of months, wouldn't you?

[CaptainPower]

I mis-red the thread title for a second. At first glance I thought it said "It really takes place within minutes..", suggesting what lay inside was a theory as to how QoS definetly DOES begin within minutes of CR.. debunking all the rants we've had about the film since it opened, which would have been quite interesting to read.

Unfortunately it's yet another dig at the film which we've all seen several times over. Okay, so he's wearing another suit and the car's back after being destroyed. But you know what? During the film James Bond sky dives without a parachute into a cave, jumps from rooftops, falls from a glass sky-line into a construction site, escapes an exploding building.. etc, etc. But none of that bothers me. It's called suspension of disbelief. And the same goes for the reasons you mentioned. Perhaps they are flaws, but if the filmmakers tell me this film takes place within seconds/minutes/hours of it's predecessor, then I believe them. I'm not going to let a change of wardrobe, a new car and the fact they don't spoon feed everything to me ruin that.

Just my opinion though

[BlackFire]

1. Tom Ford is the new tailor so the Brioni suit from the end of Casino Royale could not be there if you wanted to, and I think the 80% or more of the audience didn't notice.

2. The Aston Martin probably was given to Bond just as he returned from Siena or something like that (In the game you can see Bond heading to White's state in the DBS).

But my biggest problem is how the hell they moved so quick to the new (and horrible) MI6 HQ.

[JimmyBond]

I'm sure something like this would have bothered me ten years ago, but now it doesnt. All I care is that I enjoyed QoS, and feel the pretitles is one of the best of the series.

[0012]

The idea that it took two years to find Mr. White is ridiculous, because he hasn't slept. Believe that both films took place in 06, or 08, or 07 (it's really the least important thing), it doesn't matter. You could say that he changed suits (it's a little hot in Italy's summer for a three piece wool), or that he took off the vest and tie and it became Tom Ford. Clearly they gave him a new car. The office doesn't look THAT different from CR. The timeline of a month is perfect with the two Palios.

The only thing that REALLY doesn't make sense with all this is how it's snowin in Kazan in August/September, which is in southern Russia. Unless one says it takes Bond three months to find Yusef. But then M says she wants Bond back, so it couldn't have taken more than a week.

[Mr. Blofeld]

But my biggest problem is how the hell they moved so quick to the new (and horrible) MI6 HQ.

Simple; it's another floor of the headquarters.

[BlackFire]

Wow.. never looked it that way, thanks Mr. Blofeld!

I wonder how Q's new office/factory will look..

[darthbond]

Bond did not track down White the same day he found the message on Vespers phone. One of the scences in Solace had the date 2008 in it, so it was probably 2 years until he found White. The end of CS was 2 years after Vesper died.

This also explains, the new car, new suit, the fact Bond is not as "big" as he was at the start of CS and the fact Mathis is living in another country now. Did you think Mathis was interrigated and then given a new house in a simple few hours?

Um.... Bond mourns Vesper for two years?

darthbond

[Royal Dalton]

The way that I look at it is that Quantum of Solace takes place in 2008, as does the ending of Casino Royale, and that it took Bond roughly two years to track down Mr. White in between the phone call to M and the confrontation with Mr. White at the end of CR.

The problem with that is; they could easily pinpoint White's location from his mobile phone signal.

So, in reality, it wouldn't take anything like two years for Bond to track him down.

[darkpath]

My only guess as to the change of suit is that while Bond was loading the wounded Mr. White into the boot, Mr. White bled onto Bond's suit. If Bond didn't pick up pursuit until after he left the villa, it's certainly plausible that, since he used a suppressed UMP, that he thought he had plenty of time to change his clothes. Indeed, it's possible that the car chase came about because Bond made the mistake of taking the time to change his bloodied clothes instead of leaving immediately.

Regarding the car, I presume that it took some time to run the wily Mr. White to ground, considering that the only number he had was a mobile number and he would have to wait to call it until he was close enough to capture Mr. White. Anything else would have Mr. White throwing his mobile into the nearest rubbish bin or incinerator, and the trail going cold. Since Mr. White answered his mobile at the end of CR, we know Bond was very careful not to tip his hand.

[Pierce - Daniel]

At no point in the whole of QOS does it state the film is set in 2008, aside the fact new technology from the past year is in the film.
But the suit issuse is clear and to keep ansking questions seems foolish, Ford took over, it would be disresbectfull of him and Brioni's owrk to ask him to redisgn someone elses suit. So he made his own version, end of.
I see it like this, Bond went back to London, M "needed him" remember they talked about White, tracked him down to Lake Garda, M waited in Siena with Mitchell and gave him a fast car (Aston Martin) to go get White. So he did, the process was only a couple of days. Enough time to clear Mathis, remember M was keen to let him off asap. The whole 2 years thing is wrong, why would it not occur to Bond to go after Quantum straight away instead of wait, and why did he keep himself out of the loop concerning Yusef? He only sees his picture and hears his name the first time in Siena. Assson as CR ends QOS starts. It's a matter of days not years.
At no point does the film state it is set in 2006 or 2008.

[byline]

At no point does the film state it is set in 2006 or 2008.

I'm not sure that's true. Someone with a better memory and sharper eyes than mine can recall the date on the invitation that Bond receives to the Greene Planet fundraising party. And I would think that, as with "Casino Royale," there were timestamps all over the cellphones and other technology used throughout the film. I just didn't pay close enough attention to be able to tell you precisely what they say.

Edit: Ah, someone's already addressed this question in another thread: http://debrief.comma...showtopic=51079

The date on the invitation is Aug. 23, 2008, clearly setting it in 2008.

Edited by byline, 22 December 2008 - 03:02 AM.

[001carus]

Apart from the tie and vest, doesn't the suit look nearly the same? I'd say the intention is, White was thrown in the boot, Bond takes off his vest and tie in forceful manner (it looks like a hot day), then hears or sees the oncoming cars. He hops in, and thus begins QOS.

The only changes I can see apart from the vest and tie are the possible change in colour of shirt Bond is wearing, and, the QOS suit has pin stripes? I can't tell if the CR one does or doesn't because of the lighting, but it seems like it doesn't.

[00Twelve]

Apart from the tie and vest, doesn't the suit look nearly the same? I'd say the intention is, White was thrown in the boot, Bond takes off his vest and tie in forceful manner (it looks like a hot day), then hears or sees the oncoming cars. He hops in, and thus begins QOS.

The only changes I can see apart from the vest and tie are the possible change in colour of shirt Bond is wearing, and, the QOS suit has pin stripes? I can't tell if the CR one does or doesn't because of the lighting, but it seems like it doesn't.

The CR suit does indeed have pin stripes. Different cut, but it has pinstripes.

[001carus]

The CR suit does indeed have pin stripes. Different cut, but it has pinstripes.

Ah, okay then. So the only obvious difference for the movie goer who never wears suits (me, bar once or twice ) is the slight change in colour of shirt. I can't see the change in cut as I don't have any kind of suit eyes, so to me, the only thing lacking was the vest and tie, which the lack of can be easily explainable.

However, it is a bit silly to see the change in suit. One would assume continuity came before product placement and sponsorship deals.

[neversaynever]

People on here need to stop being so bloody literal.

The film is *set* immediately after the end of CR. That doesn't mean each and every detail has to be the same. Use your imagination.