169 replies to this topic

[Major Tallon]

As I mentioned above, I think it was the book From Russia With Love that described Bond's first two kills that made him a 00. It was during World War II. He liked the first hit, it was of a Japanese radio operator. From another building Bond squeezed off one shot through an open window to make the man turn around, and then shot him through his open mouth, and the radio operator collaped so that the window ledge covered Bond's view of the carnage. The second killing, if I remember aright, was a Swiss or a Swede who was a double agent working for the Nazis. Bond decided to take him out with a knife. This was hand to hand combat and he was repulsed by the amount of blood that poured out, like he was later in the book while pinned under "Grant's" body.

So even from the beginning Bond seemed to find violence necessary, and was good at it, but it always seemed to disgust him. In the book, OHMSS, Bond did a flying leap on skis, and when one of the bad guys followed him he fell into a giant snow blower, and was chopped to pieces and some of the spray hit Bond, and he felt queasy. In the movie with George Lazenby all he did was say, "That man had guts."

Actually, it was the novel of Casino Royale, and the second guy was a Norwegian.

Anyway, Dalton's still tops with me, and I say that with no disrespect to any of the other Bond actors. I'm very happy with Daniel Craig's casting as Bond, which I regard as a brilliant choice. Further, I realize this is all terribly subjective, but to me Dalton has the look, the intelligence, the intensity, the physicality, the toughness, and the soft center that characterize James Bond.

I can hear Dalton speaking the lines that Fleming wrote for him. I can visualize him telling Scaramanga, "Stop trying to lean on me. I'm unleanable-on." I can see him as Fleming's "bleeding heart." I can, in fact, see him as playing out key parts of Connery's, Lazenby's, Brosnan's, and Craig's films. I can even see him doing parts of FYEO and AVTAK, although nobody can successfully do what Roger Moore does. So, as much as I'll raise a glass to every actor who has slipped into the role, I'm sticking with my choice. Timothy Dalton is my Bond.

[Christopher006]

it makes me dread whoever has to follow Craig in the role.

Whoever replaces Craig will have it easy. By the time a new actor is in the role, Casino Royale will be forgotten by the general public. The film is too bland and dull to stay in their minds for 10 years. The only thing from Casino Royale that people may remember in 10 years is the torture scene. Quantum of Solace will be totally out of their minds because there is nothing memorable about it. Quantum is an undeniable failure, both commercially and artistically. Casino Royale's hype is already out the door, and it has much to do with Quantum's failure. If Daniel Craig has a second failure, Eon will drop him and try something new. This will likely happen, unless Craig's third film is a real Bond picture. Give Craig his Q and gadgets, give him his Moneypenny to flirt with, give him a gun-barrel, give him villains that want to do something more ambitious and interesting than those bores who do nothing but launder money and go after water (Quantum's members must be dehydrated and underpaid), and most importantly, give him a sense of humor. Daniel Craig is a good actor, but unless they give him all these elements, his third film will fail.

Bond films are remembered and considered great for having something that sticks out and becomes important for both pop culture and film history. Examples are Goldfinger for its golden girl and Aston Martin DB5, and Dr. No with Honey Rider coming out of the sea. The Craig era will be called forgettable in 15 years for being pretentious and dull unless Michael and Babs stop feeling bored and tired with their work, lighten things up, and start having fun again. If Craig can't fix the series, a new actor will have to step in and save it by actually playing James Bond and giving the audience a good time.

About these current villains. They are such woosies. I remember when Bond villains could destroy the world. What do these new guys do? Go after money and water. What are they going to pursue next? Loaves of bread? Vitamins? Vegetables maybe? QUANTUM OF VEGETABLES. Now there is a title for Craig's next film.

[Harmsway]

[Stephen Spotswood]

I still think Daniel Craig is more Mike Hammer than James Bond. I've always thought it be cool though if the two were ever to meet in a movie.

Christopher 006

The Quantum guys will seek to corner the world's market on Vegemeatavitamin.

Edited by Stephen Spotswood, 19 December 2008 - 01:32 PM.

[Stephen Spotswood]

[dee-bee-five]

Timothy Dalton was the favorite Bond of Fleming purists for several years. Their argument was that Dalton was more like Fleming's Bond than the other four actors to play the role. Now that Daniel Craig has emerged and become their new wet dream, are they still in support of Dalton? Or have they lost interest in him and are no longer appreciating his interpretation of the James Bond character? Do they think Craig is more like Fleming's Bond than Tim Dalton? Has their opinion of Dalton changed in any way since Craig has played Bond?

I was a great fan of Timothy Dalton's Bond in the 80s; I still am, although I'm now much more inclined to notice the inherent theatricality of his performance than I was then. And I think it's that theatricality, coupled with his being naturally saturnine, which partly explains why the general audience didn't wholly embrace him. But at the time, Fleming fans such as myself certainly bought him as the closest to the literary Bond we'd had up to that point. And even now, he probably looks like I always imagined Fleming's Bond. But if Dalton looks like Bond, for me Craig is Ian Fleming's James Bond. There's not one passage of Fleming's writing that I cannot image Craig playing. Of course, it helps that Craig is a better screen actor - the theatre might be a different matter as I've seen Dalton on stage many times, but have only ever seen Craig on TV or in the cinema.

[Stephen Spotswood]

I disagree that Craig's a better actor than Dalton, definitely different but not better. Dalton played Bond so soft spoken with fleeting shades of emotions upon his face, that he was more cinematic than stagey, where it would be lost in the distance between the performer and the audience.

And for such a distinctive looking man, he was able to almost fade into the background, as appropriate, when M and British officials were interrogating Koskoff in TLD. He was even serving coffee.

But for some reason, I didn't like it when he called out Stella on discovering the body of Felix Leiter's wife in LTK. The emotions of the scene were fine, but maybe I was having flashbacks of A Streetcar Named Desire.

Interesting picture of Bond:

http://static.howstu...ames-bond-9.jpg

Edited by Stephen Spotswood, 19 December 2008 - 02:29 PM.

[dee-bee-five]

it makes me dread whoever has to follow Craig in the role.

Whoever replaces Craig will have it easy. By the time a new actor is in the role, Casino Royale will be forgotten by the general public. The film is too bland and dull to stay in their minds for 10 years. The only thing from Casino Royale that people may remember in 10 years is the torture scene. Quantum of Solace will be totally out of their minds because there is nothing memorable about it. Quantum is an undeniable failure, both commercially and artistically. Casino Royale's hype is already out the door, and it has much to do with Quantum's failure. If Daniel Craig has a second failure, Eon will drop him and try something new. This will likely happen, unless Craig's third film is a real Bond picture. Give Craig his Q and gadgets, give him his Moneypenny to flirt with, give him a gun-barrel, give him villains that want to do something more ambitious and interesting than those bores who do nothing but launder money and go after water (Quantum's members must be dehydrated and underpaid), and most importantly, give him a sense of humor. Daniel Craig is a good actor, but unless they give him all these elements, his third film will fail.

Bond films are remembered and considered great for having something that sticks out and becomes important for both pop culture and film history. Examples are Goldfinger for its golden girl and Aston Martin DB5, and Dr. No with Honey Rider coming out of the sea. The Craig era will be called forgettable in 15 years for being pretentious and dull unless Michael and Babs stop feeling bored and tired with their work, lighten things up, and start having fun again. If Craig can't fix the series, a new actor will have to step in and save it by actually playing James Bond and giving the audience a good time.

About these current villains. They are such woosies. I remember when Bond villains could destroy the world. What do these new guys do? Go after money and water. What are they going to pursue next? Loaves of bread? Vitamins? Vegetables maybe? QUANTUM OF VEGETABLES. Now there is a title for Craig's next film.

Arrant nonsense.

[Stephen Spotswood]

I just looked it up, her name was Della, but I keep hearing Stella.

[Publius]

I just looked it up, her name was Della, but I keep hearing Stella.

I definitely hear "Deller."

[Four Aces]

Dalton in my opinion still plays a great Bond, and a dark, brooding Bond at that.

4A

[byline]

I just looked it up, her name was Della, but I keep hearing Stella.

"StelllllAAAAAAHHHHHHH!" (Sorry, I was channeling Marlon Brando there for a moment.)

Dalton in my opinion still plays a great Bond, and a dark, brooding Bond at that.

I agree.

[Byron]

I find the biggest difference is that Dalton's Bond had class and refinement whereas Craig's Bond is more akin to a blue collar thug.

I like Craig but Dalton (and early) Connery were much closer to Fleming's creation in terms of both looks and personality. Dalton still number 1 in my book.

[Pete]

I think both Dalton & Craig are equal in potraying Flemings Bond. They both have the anger and the humour. Both have that private humour where they smile to themselves when something happens. Dalton In LTK has a good laugh on his own when he flies off with the money, Craig has a private laugh when Vesper leaves him alone after the meal on the train. So far I find little between the two apart from DC's a bit fresher where TD's is slightly dated.

[Stephen Spotswood]

I find the biggest difference is that Dalton's Bond had class and refinement whereas Craig's Bond is more akin to a blue collar thug.

I like Craig but Dalton (and early) Connery were much closer to Fleming's creation in terms of both looks and personality. Dalton still number 1 in my book.

That's why I keep comparing Craig to Mike Hammer.

[Thunderball302]

in my mind - Dalton is the closest to Fleming - Connery is the best silver screen Bond - and Craig is my favorite and getting closer to overtake Connery as the best film Bond.

[Mr. Somerset]

Always loved and supported Tim. I must say I find it difficult to decide who is indeed closest to the Fleming Bond I envisioned. They both interpret the man fairly accurately. Maybe Tim is a bit more like the Bond in the later novels, though with Craig closer to the early ones.

[00Twelve]

Craig nails Fleming's early Bond. And well he should; he's playing Bond toward the beginning of his 00 career. On the other hand, Dalton nails Fleming's late Bond. His Bond was the world-weary veteran agent who would supposedly thank M for firing him. After 14 films prior to his first, this makes perfect sense.

Craig is more like Bond in the earlier books and Dalton more like Bond in the later novels.

Craig perfectly captures the more arrogant aspects of Bond's personality, whereas Dalton has the world-weariness that we see in the later Fleming novels

Actually, I even perceive Dalton as representing what Craig will become, in terms of character.

They both interpret the man fairly accurately. Maybe Tim is a bit more like the Bond in the later novels, though with Craig closer to the early ones.

I'm sensing a pattern, here.

But seriously, I would be inclined to agree with Harms in declaring early Connery the closest to Fleming's Bond, but I find him to be a smoother operator and a tad jokier than the literary counterpart (not that Fleming's Bond was devoid of wit), and I chalk up the majority of Connery's resemblance to the fact that his Bond is simply living more or less in the same era. But hey, Fleming wished his own Bond had been more like Connery from the get-go after his performance in DN, so go figure.

Craig and Dalton both seem to be the most three-dimensional Bonds I've seen; They each give me the impression that Bond is a real (and deadly) man thrust into extraordinary circumstances. I think Connery's most "real guy" moment is when he can't hold back a chuckle at the Gypsy bellydancer's "skills." For these reasons and better ones that are stuck in the back of my mind at the moment, Dalton still stands high and proud for this Fleming pseudo-purist.

[Safari Suit]

Come on guys, lets me be specific. Craig is clearly the pre-page 55 of FRWL Bond, and Dalton is clearly the post-page 55 of FRWL Bond. Anyone who disagrees has no right calling themselves a Bond fan!

[Loomis]

Dalton shmalton.

[Stephen Spotswood]

Always loved and supported Tim. I must say I find it difficult to decide who is indeed closest to the Fleming Bond I envisioned. They both interpret the man fairly accurately. Maybe Tim is a bit more like the Bond in the later novels, though with Craig closer to the early ones.

I always had the impression Bond was something of a vain man in the early books, but not Roger Moore vain. He seemed to be mildly offended when compared in looks to Hoagy Carmichael, and so sure he looked more like a pirate with his face scar and all.

[Superhobo]

As I mentioned above, I think it was the book From Russia With Love that described Bond's first two kills that made him a 00. It was during World War II. He liked the first hit, it was of a Japanese radio operator. From another building Bond squeezed off one shot through an open window to make the man turn around, and then shot him through his open mouth, and the radio operator collaped so that the window ledge covered Bond's view of the carnage. The second killing, if I remember aright, was a Swiss or a Swede who was a double agent working for the Nazis. Bond decided to take him out with a knife. This was hand to hand combat and he was repulsed by the amount of blood that poured out, like he was later in the book while pinned under "Grant's" body.

Actually, this was in "Casino Royale."

As far as the topic goes, it's like comparing Heath Ledger's and Jack Nicholson's portrayals of the Joker - both are drawn from the same source material, both are incredibly close to that source material, but in wildly different ways.

Edited by Superhobo, 25 December 2008 - 02:21 AM.

[00Twelve]

Come on guys, lets me be specific. Craig is clearly the pre-page 55 of FRWL Bond, and Dalton is clearly the post-page 55 of FRWL Bond. Anyone who disagrees has no right calling themselves a Bond fan!

Is Bond even in the story yet at page 55?

[Safari Suit]

Mere details.

[Stephen Spotswood]

I used to have every Fleming James Bond novels, but don't know what happened to them all. I now seem to have only Dr. No, Moonraker and the non-Bond Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (was that something Fleming would chant while boinking his wife?)

Paperbacks used to be anywhere from 75 cents to about 3.50, but now run around 15 dollars.

[FlemingBond]

Hmm, well look at my user name, and my avatar.

[Professor Pi]

I used to always picture Timothy Dalton when reading Bond, but I had tried to picture Daniel Craig when I re-read Casino Royale before the movie came out, and by the end it had worked. I wasn't excited about Craig being picked, but was won over once I saw the film.

Dalton's exhaustion after having killed Sanchez felt like his most Fleming moment to me. I think that was the first time Bond actually looked roughed up onscreen. But Craig handles the humor better (witness how each quips their own "Dead end" joke.) And Craig doesn't wear his rage on his sleeves like Dalton did (witness his sigh when seeing Della's body in LTK). Still, I always felt Timothy got a bad rap (I remember watching the GoldenEye gunbarrel scene and some guy behind me goes "he's a good Bond"--Pierce hadn't even done anything yet!)

But ask most women who has sex appeal, and Dalton is never very high on their list (Connery seems to always be at the top, even at his current age!) That explains Craig's popularity over Dalton more than any Fleming literary purity. But if I only watch one actor as Bond, it's Dalton.

[Stephen Spotswood]

I will say this, although Timothy Dalton seemed the most Flemingesque to me, at times he seemed almost from another era, a gallant. One could consider Dalton to be the Bond for the Jane Austen set, and unlike Connery and Craig, he never takes off his shirt, for the girls who get into chiseled abs. His Bond seemed to come with a burdensome emotional baggage so it's unclear if he needs another girl-friend or a nurse. In LTK, he could be quite snappish with Pam, and seemed to enjoy the South American macho culture a bit much, where women fade into the background. But he still has that scene where he discovers the whip marks on Lupe and shows concern.

The interesting thing was Ian Fleming was trying to create an English everyman, gave him what he considered a mild name (from a writer of bird-watching books), and code name 007, that came from the license plate of a local bus. That's one of my main problems with Craig, he never seems to really get hurt, and he does all this stunt work with a certain super-endurance the character didn't have in any of the books. Even with CR they had to trick out Vesper's death, give him a few seconds to grieve, and then he's back in action again, while in the book her death was played as more of a tragedy and ends there.

Edited by Stephen Spotswood, 28 December 2008 - 10:43 PM.

[Daylights]

Timothy Dalton still is, and will probably always be, my favourite Bond actor. And he is still the purest one on the Fleming-scale.

Daniel "Alfred E. Neuman" Craig doesn't even reach any of the other five Bond actors to the ancles, in means of being either a Flemingesque or non-Flemingesque Bond. Him filling the role is a joke.

[Mr. Blofeld]

The hell? Is this the Bash Craig for No Damned Reason thread?!