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For Those That Didn't Like QoS, come in!


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#241 MattofSteel

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:22 PM

Lots of people talk about these 'layers and complexities' but I didn't really see them. I'm not saying they weren't there, but if I failed to see them [and I'm not just a 'dumb' movie buff,I enjoy all sorts of films including many so-called arthouse films] then I feel the filmmakers of QOS failed. I saw little more than a Steven Segal film,but less fun then some of them. Some have said that you need to see the film again to appreciate these complexities and to enjoy the action more,but my view is if you need to see the film again then the filmmakers have failed. I really don't want to see the film again until it's on DVD.

I think it's great that many people obviously do see alot in the film. Maybe on DVD I will suddenly 'see the light'. But for the moment I'm left with little more than a memory of an incredibly disappointing and annoying film I paid money to see. I left the cinema thoroughly pissed off, in fact the most pissed off from seeing a film at the cinema in years. I was one of the few who didn't think The Dark Knight was all that great [I did think it was okay,but very overrated], but it was a damn sight better than QOS, and I never though I'd be saying that a couple of months ago. It really saddens me that I would rank QOS as one of the worst films of the year [and I go to the cinema most weeks].


I can only suggest you see it again. I thought it little more than an impressive, above-average Bond effort after my first viewing. The second and third ones really sell it, once you're used to the jarring changes. It's far more than an empty Segal effort, far more.

#242 Daddy Bond

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:33 PM

Lots of people talk about these 'layers and complexities' but I didn't really see them. I'm not saying they weren't there, but if I failed to see them [and I'm not just a 'dumb' movie buff,I enjoy all sorts of films including many so-called arthouse films] then I feel the filmmakers of QOS failed. I saw little more than a Steven Segal film,but less fun then some of them. Some have said that you need to see the film again to appreciate these complexities and to enjoy the action more,but my view is if you need to see the film again then the filmmakers have failed. I really don't want to see the film again until it's on DVD.

I think it's great that many people obviously do see alot in the film. Maybe on DVD I will suddenly 'see the light'. But for the moment I'm left with little more than a memory of an incredibly disappointing and annoying film I paid money to see. I left the cinema thoroughly pissed off, in fact the most pissed off from seeing a film at the cinema in years. I was one of the few who didn't think The Dark Knight was all that great [I did think it was okay,but very overrated], but it was a damn sight better than QOS, and I never though I'd be saying that a couple of months ago. It really saddens me that I would rank QOS as one of the worst films of the year [and I go to the cinema most weeks].


I can only suggest you see it again. I thought it little more than an impressive, above-average Bond effort after my first viewing. The second and third ones really sell it, once you're used to the jarring changes. It's far more than an empty Segal effort, far more.


Far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far...more! :(

#243 Eddie Burns

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:44 PM

Your right. Pathetic was the wrong word, but at the same time I wasn't directing it at blueman. It's just the notion that an arthouse director has made the best action movie for two years seems a little our there. Especially when said action film didn't do anything new with action, instead just copied from other movies and sped up the editing. Different folks different strokes.

No, the layers and complexities are there but way exaggerated on this forum. The script was made up as they went along and Forster set out to make a movie with as much action as possible. Don't know where they had time to concentrate on layers or complexities considering they had no story. And Forster's PRIMARY concern was action. That's why a lack of script didn't bother him. If this is how you want your Bond treated, then you aren't fans, just Eon puppies that will eat whatever is thrown at you. Some aren't hard to please.

I think I should rest my case now. Forster and Craig have elaborated on their approach to the movie (an approach that Roger Michell had the decency to refuse to partake because I'm sure he thought the sequel to CR deserved better). The result is not my cup of tea, it might be yours, but not mine. No script, arthouse director doing action, and lack of originality are all obvious. This movie is a dud, if the name James Bond wasn't attached, no one would care, believe me. It's just a shame that the name was attached.

#244 Harmsway

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:50 PM

Don't know where they had time to concentrate on layers or complexities considering they had no story.

That's not necessarily true. They did have a story, and a basic narrative arc. The rewrites had more to do with filling holes in the screenplay than it did with constructing an entirely new narrative.

#245 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:53 PM

Hey, it worked for me, maybe cuz it's atypical (I tend to not be all that impressed by big dumb fx-driven blockbusters, but that's just me... I really liked how Forster put this film together, great - and yes, not usual - blend of action and character/plot). Wish all action films had this much care put into them.


"Atypical, not usual" C'mon!! someone said that you should get out more often, I wouldn't go as far, but... when was the last time that you saw a blockbuster??, if you had made the same statement (about a film like QOS) a decade ago, I would totally agree with you, but since around 2004 onwards, almost every film in the genre have a similar style to this second Craig entry.

I concede that QOS isn't a carbon copy of the current trend, because it's after all a proper Bond movie (something that I wouldn't dare to say about the whole Brosnan era, IMHO).

Forster's work seems more like good old Bond formula+ Fad, like several of its predecessors (MR or LTK, for instance), which are the flicks that seeems more outdated within the EON series.

#246 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:57 PM

For the purposes of this overall "reboot" discussion, let's establish one parameter: CR and QOS need to be considered as two parts of the same beast. Good?

-Naturalism. Photography, staging, dialogue, everything. All of cinema is going this way


If you're talking about naturalism regarding QOS, I'm absolutely agree with you, but if you're referring to CR I heartely disgree. Craig's debut had a much more believable and down to earth tone than any Bond movie since the eighties, or maybe even the sixties, but that's far from naturalism.

Sorry MottofSteel, but I just can not accept CR and QOS as being parts of a same 'beast'. First of all, because I see the end of CR as a perfect closure of the Bond origin story, just like Martin Campbell declared in the audio commentaries for the film ("the experience has somehow galvanized him, and he's now become the sort of beautiful machine that we know and love"), even Craig said that "they're two separeted movies".

Besides, it's pertinent to have in mind, that the novel's finale (which doesn't have any direct sequel) is included in the movie. The additional filmic scene with Bond and Mr. White in Lake Como, shows how professional Bond have become, and hence, how different from the beggining of the movie is OO7 at this point. That scene doesn't leave the plot in a cliffhanger, it just gives a moderate happy ending to a story that otherwise, like in the book, would have finished sadly.

CR is a complete movie with a concluded plot, that of course gives space to a sort of a sequel like any Bond film would have made, if the producers would have wanted to take that path before. In fact, I don't that see QOS as much of a sequel, than what FRWL was for DN (don't forget that the aim of SPECTRE, in particularly killing to Bond, was to take revenge for the death of Dr. No).

#247 Lazenby

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:10 AM

Look, I have posted to threads and created threads that have highlighted my utter disgust with QOS. I felt that EON, Marc Forster, and Daniel Craig had really sold us a bill of goods and exploited the Bond fans who felt that CR was a true Bond masterpiece. They told us that the story was better and more aspects of Bonds psyche was explored. What I watched was a rushed movie in scenes and editing in what I feel was a blatant attempt to cover up a weak story. I thought that the cinematography was abysmal and that this movie was one invisible car short of being a Brosnan movie. I know that like usual, I will be chastised and told that I lack the intellectual acumen to follow this movie. I only saw it once but will go back in case I missed something. I just cannot fathom that this was considered an adequate sequel to the greatest Bond movie ever.

EON, please take your time, develop a great story, bring in David Fincher or Matthew Vaughn, and make another classic.

#248 blueman

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:33 AM

I see lots of mediocre action films every year (cuz I like that kinda stuff :( ), but few have QOS's layers of complexity or are simply ham-fisted IMO, and are therefore not as good to my way of thinking and enjoyment. My favorite film so far of this decade, if I had to choose one: Brick, not a big blockbuster but a savvy genre thriller with compelling characters and swift plotting and awesome dialogue (like QOS, except QOS is a big blockbuster :) ). Anyway FWIW.

#249 MattofSteel

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:52 AM

For the purposes of this overall "reboot" discussion, let's establish one parameter: CR and QOS need to be considered as two parts of the same beast. Good?

-Naturalism. Photography, staging, dialogue, everything. All of cinema is going this way


If you're talking about naturalism regarding QOS, I'm absolutely agree with you, but if you're referring to CR I heartely disgree. Craig's debut had a much more believable and down to earth tone than any Bond movie since the eighties, or maybe even the sixties, but that's far from naturalism.

Sorry MottofSteel, but I just can not accept CR and QOS as being parts of a same 'beast'. First of all, because I see the end of CR as a perfect closure of the Bond origin story, just like Martin Campbell declared in the audio commentaries for the film ("the experience has somehow galvanized him, and he's now become the sort of beautiful machine that we know and love"), even Craig said that "they're two separeted movies".

Besides, it's pertinent to have in mind, that the novel's finale (which doesn't have any direct sequel) is included in the movie. The additional filmic scene with Bond and Mr. White in Lake Como, shows how professional Bond have become, and hence, how different from the beggining of the movie is OO7 at this point. That scene doesn't leave the plot in a cliffhanger, it just gives a moderate happy ending to a story that otherwise, like in the book, would have finished sadly.

CR is a complete movie with a concluded plot, that of course gives space to a sort of a sequel like any Bond film would have made, if the producers would have wanted to take that path before. In fact, I don't that see QOS as much of a sequel, than what FRWL was for DN (don't forget that the aim of SPECTRE, in particularly killing to Bond, was to take revenge for the death of Dr. No).



I agree with you. Always have on this point. CR is indeed a complete film, and I would have been happy if "Bond as usual" would have appeared in 22. To be fair, the Bond that begins Quantum of Solace is actually much more traditional (in terms of "seasoning" or as Campbell says, "being galvanized") than the one at the beginning of CR. And as I said earlier, if the producers and filmmakers are guilty of anything, it is perhaps that they rode the CR wave as opposed to blazing forward in a different direction.

But I don't begrudge them for it, and there's two reasons why.

First, while your explanation is entirely accurate and satisfactory, the situation really can be read both ways - it does feel like there's more to this story, that maybe Bond's basic answer isn't enough, and on the way to becoming even MORE the rounded agent with a subjective view of life that we want, his arc isn't finished. Campbell certainly never intended this - he even mentioned CR as being "the arc" at the initial Craig press conference. And his film wraps up nicely, if that had been the direction the producers chose. But they saw a different opportunity, and seized it.

And second, which I warn you, is a bit personal.

I've spoken often about how emotionally honest this path to take was, amongst other things. I lost a parent two months ago after an almost cruelly long battle with a terminal illness. My initial reaction for a week afterward was much like Bond's at the end of CR, in that I was fairly stoic and seemed satisfied at some level that at least the pain and struggle, for the entire family, was over. Bottom line, I was mentally prepared to close the book, so to speak.

But life really didn't work that simply. I found my greatest emotional challenges lay in the weeks after that, when life itself just felt different and the simplest things became confusing or elicited an emotional response. It was the same world, but it just felt markedly different at times. Much like the aesthetic I picked up from QoS - and yes, that includes frenetic editing and confused pacing as cinematic techniques.

I'm not so much trying to use this personal example as an excuse to bolster the film's credibility, I'm just saying, this is probably why I see what I see in QoS - because if you're going to follow up the death of a loved one with some kind of continuation, it felt freakishly identifiable to me. Personally. Then again, Bond movies don't exist to serve people who are grieving, and from that point alone, you can make the argument that a different kind of film might have been deserved by the fan populace at large.

But ultimately, given the events that happened in CR and the conciseness and abruptness with which they were resolved, I don't think this particular narrative path was necessarily a bad choice, or executed poorly.

And yes, I was talking about naturalism in QoS :(, and even in CR you can see ample amounts in comparison to DAD, which was borderlined a cartoon at points.

#250 blueman

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:30 AM

That's a great post, Matt. And agree about Bond in QOS touching off emotional sparks - rare for on-screen Bond but something the Bond of Fleming's novels did quite a bit. Definitely a big part of QOS's draw for me too.

#251 quantumofsolace

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:53 AM

I thought that the cinematography was abysmal


Where? When? The cinematography was superb in every frame. Where did you think it was 'abysmal'?

#252 Sniperscope

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:37 AM

I'm a new poster here so be nice please!!!
Just want to say from the outset that I think QoS is a brilliant and rare film. It throws us into Bond's world with little apology or exposition and demands we "see" as he does- it's intelligent, gripping and a visual feast. I'm surprised some people think that Forster's cinematography is somehow lacking. He's crafted a Bond film that's going to stand the test of time, unlike many other Bond films. The subtle imagery of Bond and Camille walking through the water-starved town or the wit of the horse race intercut with a more deadly one are remarkable. And the Opera scene has to rank as possibly the best single scene in Bond history. How anyone can describe such cinematography in negative terms is beyond me! What about the exciting opening helicopter pan across the Italian waters? Or the visual juxtapositions between the rainy greys and whites of London with the broiling reds of the desert... The visuals were stunning in every shot and were obviously crafted by Forster for maximum impact. Negative comments regarding the editing of the fight scenes is mystifying. I would imagine that's what any life or death struggle is all about! It's bloody mayhem not prettily staged dances...

#253 blueman

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:52 AM

Yep, same page scopester. And welcome! :(

#254 Santa

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:06 PM

The subtle imagery of Bond and Camille walking through the water-starved town

Hmmmm. I'm not sure I saw anything subtle about it. That dripping pipe was bludgeoning us over the head with it. But welcome to CB.n! :(

#255 HildebrandRarity

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:26 PM

:(

#256 MattofSteel

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:55 PM

The subtle imagery of Bond and Camille walking through the water-starved town

Hmmmm. I'm not sure I saw anything subtle about it. That dripping pipe was bludgeoning us over the head with it. But welcome to CB.n! :)


Yes, some very overt symbolism there. The one, solitary point in the film where I kind of said "Uh, yeah. We get it. More of Agent Fields please?"

Too bad I didn't get my wish :(

#257 Born_again_Bond

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:01 PM

I'm a new poster here so be nice please!!!


Don't worry Sniperscope.....I've been here a little while now and have found this is the most civilised forum I have ever seen online.

Folks agree, disagree and get really passionate about all things Bond, but are very giving of different views.

It's an unusual and fun place - enjoy it! I do :(

#258 Bond Bug

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:44 PM

Why is QOS so bad?

Let me try and explain one aspect of its failure.

I'm a novelist and if I wrote a book and my readers said that book I had written was about revenge, and I had to say "well no it is not about revenge, far from it," would it be my fault or my readers fault? Would I have done a good job or a bad job? Would I look rather silly telling my readers what it is about? If I made a movie and had the same problem, would it be any better?

Daniel Craig said:

"The lucky thing is we're doing a very direct sequel and the idea of vengeance that comes into it is really everybody else's idea.

"They think he's gone off, gone off course, and he's not . He's a loose cannon, his emotions have taken over.

"The idea of vengeance is the furthest thing from his mind. He just wants to get his closure and hence the title, Quantum of Solace, which is what it's all about

http://news.sky.com/...Screening_In_UK


When you have to start explaining what a movie is actually about, you must know you have screwn up big time.

#259 Santa

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:48 PM

When you have to start explaining what a movie is actually about, you must know you have screwn up big time.

I hope you don't use that word in any of your novels.

#260 MattofSteel

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:54 PM

When you have to start explaining what a movie is actually about, you must know you have screwn up big time.

I hope you don't use that word in any of your novels.


L. MFAO.

#261 HildebrandRarity

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:58 PM

Why is QOS so bad?

Let me try and explain one aspect of its failure.

I'm a novelist and if I wrote a book and my readers said that book I had written was about revenge, and I had to say "well no it is not about revenge, far from it," would it be my fault or my readers fault? Would I have done a good job or a bad job? Would I look rather silly telling my readers what it is about? If I made a movie and had the same problem, would it be any better?

Daniel Craig said:

"The lucky thing is we're doing a very direct sequel and the idea of vengeance that comes into it is really everybody else's idea.

"They think he's gone off, gone off course, and he's not . He's a loose cannon, his emotions have taken over.

"The idea of vengeance is the furthest thing from his mind. He just wants to get his closure and hence the title, Quantum of Solace, which is what it's all about

http://news.sky.com/...Screening_In_UK


When you have to start explaining what a movie is actually about, you must know you have screwn up big time.



When a movie is about what its title implies...and people don't know what 'quantum' and 'solace' means then it's not "you" who has the problem.

There are a lot of critics that have/had no idea what those two words mean/meant. I suppose anyone can buy a journalism/English degree these days.

#262 MattofSteel

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:54 PM

Why is QOS so bad?

Let me try and explain one aspect of its failure.

I'm a novelist and if I wrote a book and my readers said that book I had written was about revenge, and I had to say "well no it is not about revenge, far from it," would it be my fault or my readers fault? Would I have done a good job or a bad job? Would I look rather silly telling my readers what it is about? If I made a movie and had the same problem, would it be any better?

Daniel Craig said:

"The lucky thing is we're doing a very direct sequel and the idea of vengeance that comes into it is really everybody else's idea.

"They think he's gone off, gone off course, and he's not . He's a loose cannon, his emotions have taken over.

"The idea of vengeance is the furthest thing from his mind. He just wants to get his closure and hence the title, Quantum of Solace, which is what it's all about

http://news.sky.com/...Screening_In_UK


When you have to start explaining what a movie is actually about, you must know you have screwn up big time.



When a movie is about what its title implies...and people don't know what 'quantum' and 'solace' means then it's not "you" who has the problem.

There are a lot of critics that have/had no idea what those two words mean/meant. I suppose anyone can buy a journalism/English degree these days.


So, I'm confused as to which side you're implying (I might be failing to read it). Are you saying it's the producers' fault for picking a name no one knows that obscures the film's intended meaning, or are you saying it's not the producer's fault that the public isn't up to snuff on their definitions?

I'm not taking a side here, I'm just curious.

#263 byline

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:07 PM

There are a lot of critics that have/had no idea what those two words mean/meant. I suppose anyone can buy a journalism/English degree these days.

Good grief, does no one pick up a dictionary anymore? Has the desire to learn the meaning of words vanished from the face of the earth?

#264 stamper

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:35 PM

OK, I heard things... don't ask me from whom... I was curious about why QOS was half the movie it was, so I went out, gave a few well connected phone calls, and got answers...

- So you know, that 20 seconds long chase that opens the movie ? There's like, two cars chasing Bond ? Originally, there were three. They erased the third car in all the remaining shots.

- So you know, the editing, what of it ? What gives ? It appears Mr Foster edits all his movies this way first, ie the movie is supposed to play like a fast forward version, so that he can point out what scenes works best, and where it's important to extend, give breath, so that the movie can find it's balance.

- So, er, why are none of his past movies cut that way ? It's because he always have the time to cut properly the movie, but didn't had that luxury here. The movie was good enough for the producers, who had a date to meet. So they just took it out of his hands, and said "fine ! date is more important than the movie being good". (that's me extrapolating, not actual words I was told)

- What about the ending ? Bond finds out the man who hired the bodyguard he threw off the roof at the opera, and kills him. This scene was supposed to end Quantum for good (he was apparently the head). Thus Bond would have gotten his Quantum of Solace. I asked about Mr White, but suddenly people hang up on me. I have no idea why... :(

So, I know that there never was before a 007 movie "director's cut" apart from unrated versions of LTK or GE. I know the QOS DVD / BR (which was completed before the movie came out) will be the TC (theatrical cut).

But I'm asking here EON, to please, let Mr Foster go back and edit properly this movie. Hopefully, it will play like a movie rather than half a movie (and i'll eat all my words against Foster not knowing what he was doing, well, he should have told them to stick it and get the thing right the first time in my humble opinion. Of course money rules it all).

#265 Daddy Bond

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:17 PM

OK, I heard things... don't ask me from whom... I was curious about why QOS was half the movie it was, so I went out, gave a few well connected phone calls, and got answers...

- So you know, that 20 seconds long chase that opens the movie ? There's like, two cars chasing Bond ? Originally, there were three. They erased the third car in all the remaining shots.

- So you know, the editing, what of it ? What gives ? It appears Mr Foster edits all his movies this way first, ie the movie is supposed to play like a fast forward version, so that he can point out what scenes works best, and where it's important to extend, give breath, so that the movie can find it's balance.

- So, er, why are none of his past movies cut that way ? It's because he always have the time to cut properly the movie, but didn't had that luxury here. The movie was good enough for the producers, who had a date to meet. So they just took it out of his hands, and said "fine ! date is more important than the movie being good". (that's me extrapolating, not actual words I was told)

- What about the ending ? Bond finds out the man who hired the bodyguard he threw off the roof at the opera, and kills him. This scene was supposed to end Quantum for good (he was apparently the head). Thus Bond would have gotten his Quantum of Solace. I asked about Mr White, but suddenly people hang up on me. I have no idea why... :(

So, I know that there never was before a 007 movie "director's cut" apart from unrated versions of LTK or GE. I know the QOS DVD / BR (which was completed before the movie came out) will be the TC (theatrical cut).

But I'm asking here EON, to please, let Mr Foster go back and edit properly this movie. Hopefully, it will play like a movie rather than half a movie (and i'll eat all my words against Foster not knowing what he was doing, well, he should have told them to stick it and get the thing right the first time in my humble opinion. Of course money rules it all).


Actually, I like it the way it is. If QOS, as it stands, is a messed up version of Forster's original intent, then I like it messed up. While I wouldn't mind seeing a director's cut, I have a feeling I'll stick with the original version. As it stands, I like the mind numbing frantic pace of the opening chase. I wouldn't want all Bond movies like this, but for QOS, it really worked well for me. As it is now, QOS stands at #2 as my all time favorite Bond movie.

#266 Bond Bug

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:58 PM

When you have to start explaining what a movie is actually about, you must know you have screwn up big time.

I hope you don't use that word in any of your novels.



I use a lot worse than that.

#267 HildebrandRarity

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:04 PM

So, why did it get a nomination for best editing? Audiences seem to like it. Most of the fans who voted on the CBn poll also like it.

#268 HildebrandRarity

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:13 PM

Why is QOS so bad?

Let me try and explain one aspect of its failure.

I'm a novelist and if I wrote a book and my readers said that book I had written was about revenge, and I had to say "well no it is not about revenge, far from it," would it be my fault or my readers fault? Would I have done a good job or a bad job? Would I look rather silly telling my readers what it is about? If I made a movie and had the same problem, would it be any better?

Daniel Craig said:

"The lucky thing is we're doing a very direct sequel and the idea of vengeance that comes into it is really everybody else's idea.

"They think he's gone off, gone off course, and he's not . He's a loose cannon, his emotions have taken over.

"The idea of vengeance is the furthest thing from his mind. He just wants to get his closure and hence the title, Quantum of Solace, which is what it's all about

http://news.sky.com/...Screening_In_UK


When you have to start explaining what a movie is actually about, you must know you have screwn up big time.



When a movie is about what its title implies...and people don't know what 'quantum' and 'solace' means then it's not "you" who has the problem.

There are a lot of critics that have/had no idea what those two words mean/meant. I suppose anyone can buy a journalism/English degree these days.


So, I'm confused as to which side you're implying (I might be failing to read it). Are you saying it's the producers' fault for picking a name no one knows that obscures the film's intended meaning, or are you saying it's not the producer's fault that the public isn't up to snuff on their definitions?

I'm not taking a side here, I'm just curious.


It's not the producers' fault that there are a number of stupid journalists out there.

#269 MattofSteel

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:50 PM

OK, I heard things... don't ask me from whom... I was curious about why QOS was half the movie it was, so I went out, gave a few well connected phone calls, and got answers...

- So you know, that 20 seconds long chase that opens the movie ? There's like, two cars chasing Bond ? Originally, there were three. They erased the third car in all the remaining shots.

- So you know, the editing, what of it ? What gives ? It appears Mr Foster edits all his movies this way first, ie the movie is supposed to play like a fast forward version, so that he can point out what scenes works best, and where it's important to extend, give breath, so that the movie can find it's balance.

- So, er, why are none of his past movies cut that way ? It's because he always have the time to cut properly the movie, but didn't had that luxury here. The movie was good enough for the producers, who had a date to meet. So they just took it out of his hands, and said "fine ! date is more important than the movie being good". (that's me extrapolating, not actual words I was told)

- What about the ending ? Bond finds out the man who hired the bodyguard he threw off the roof at the opera, and kills him. This scene was supposed to end Quantum for good (he was apparently the head). Thus Bond would have gotten his Quantum of Solace. I asked about Mr White, but suddenly people hang up on me. I have no idea why... :(

So, I know that there never was before a 007 movie "director's cut" apart from unrated versions of LTK or GE. I know the QOS DVD / BR (which was completed before the movie came out) will be the TC (theatrical cut).

But I'm asking here EON, to please, let Mr Foster go back and edit properly this movie. Hopefully, it will play like a movie rather than half a movie (and i'll eat all my words against Foster not knowing what he was doing, well, he should have told them to stick it and get the thing right the first time in my humble opinion. Of course money rules it all).


Massive shame if it's true, although considering that the editors are on the dailies all the way through the process and Forster still had 6 weeks (a LOT can be done in that time), I'd say the finished film isn't so far off his original intent. But I guess we'll never know unless someone asks him, will we?

And also, QoS had TWO main, credited editors as opposed to CR's one - and while Baird and Campbell would have been operating under a similar (if not identical) timeframe as Forster, Chesse, and Pearson, there's nothing about CR I would consider unrefined as a victim of time restrictions.


Why is QOS so bad?

Let me try and explain one aspect of its failure.

I'm a novelist and if I wrote a book and my readers said that book I had written was about revenge, and I had to say "well no it is not about revenge, far from it," would it be my fault or my readers fault? Would I have done a good job or a bad job? Would I look rather silly telling my readers what it is about? If I made a movie and had the same problem, would it be any better?

Daniel Craig said:

"The lucky thing is we're doing a very direct sequel and the idea of vengeance that comes into it is really everybody else's idea.

"They think he's gone off, gone off course, and he's not . He's a loose cannon, his emotions have taken over.

"The idea of vengeance is the furthest thing from his mind. He just wants to get his closure and hence the title, Quantum of Solace, which is what it's all about

http://news.sky.com/...Screening_In_UK


When you have to start explaining what a movie is actually about, you must know you have screwn up big time.



When a movie is about what its title implies...and people don't know what 'quantum' and 'solace' means then it's not "you" who has the problem.

There are a lot of critics that have/had no idea what those two words mean/meant. I suppose anyone can buy a journalism/English degree these days.


So, I'm confused as to which side you're implying (I might be failing to read it). Are you saying it's the producers' fault for picking a name no one knows that obscures the film's intended meaning, or are you saying it's not the producer's fault that the public isn't up to snuff on their definitions?

I'm not taking a side here, I'm just curious.


It's not the producers' fault that there are a number of stupid journalists out there.


That's what I thought. And no, it's not. I wanted to be a journalist about two years ago, and now I just have absolutely no motivation to do so. I apologize to generalize, but I seem to be consistently fed up with the media in all forms lately. Political coverage tends to sour it quickly, as well.

#270 Mr. Arlington Beech

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:02 PM

So, why did it get a nomination for best editing? Audiences seem to like it. Most of the fans who voted on the CBn poll also like it.


Audiences always seem to like the latest trend (in editing in this case), there's nothing surprising about that, and this awards are a reflection of that. But that doesn't necessarily means that the work of Forster, Chesse and Pearson is really good or innovative.

In the other hand, if the cast of QOS wins any award, that would be different, because acting isn't contaminated by a current fad.

P.D.: Don't get mad this time, HildebrandRarity, it's just my opinion.

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 16 December 2008 - 11:23 PM.