31 replies to this topic

[Jake007]

Dalton had not quit playing Bond and he continued to play the role from GE-DAD? Would those films (DAD especially) have been better or worse?

(On a side note, the producers also could've tried to bring back John Barry to do the music).

[DamnCoffee]

Probably, since the film would be tailored for Daltons needs.

[Jake007]

So basically, there would be no invisible car or CGI surfing in DAD? That would've been a great film. (Not saying that it's bad right now).

[DamnCoffee]

Probably not, no. Dalton is seen as a dark Bond, Pierce's Bond movies (minus GoldenEye) are extremely light. Die Another Day with Dalton would have had great depth.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

Very interesting question. Well, I think Dalton was a perfect Bond. Both his movies were terrific and much more Fleming-esque than anything post-OHMSS. However, Goldeneye is my favourite Bond film by a country mile, so it's difficult for me to imagine anything different with it. However, if the scripts were changed for the other three, they could have been very entertaining, and much better Bond films. However, if Dalton had stayed on as Bond, his films would have had to have been made in no more than two year gaps. What I mean is, Goldeneye would have had to have been made in 91, Tomorrow Never Dies in 93, The World Is Not Enough in 95 and Die Another Day in 97. Dalton would definitely have been too old to play Bond in the same period as Brosnan. But despite this, I still see Dalton as a great Bond and would have welcomed more Bond films with him in. Maybe he could have done another two or three and then we could've had Brosnan's one hit wonder, followed by three different Bond films, then Casino Royale. A great thing - imagination!

[Jake007]

Dalton may have been too old to play Bond in 2002, but he didn't seem like that, unlike Roger Moore.

[jaguar007]

I always felt (and still feel) GE should have been a Dalton film. Pierce always seemed like he was trying to play Bond similar to Dalton in much of that movie but it doesn't really work for him. I think Dalton has a much stronger presence than Brosnan.

[ChrissBond007]

When I first read where this topic was about, I could expect some: Yes, Dalton would have been better, Brosnan sucks etc.

I don't think Goldeneye could have been that great with Dalton. If it was made the same way as LTK, Goldeneye would probably have the same (boring for me) feeling as LTK . Altrough I think he did a great job in TLD. But the only problem I have with Dalton that he isn't as charismatic as the other Bond actors.

I mean, really, who can imagine Dalton in a sauna with Famke Janssen?

Edited by ChrissBond007, 30 November 2008 - 01:08 AM.

[Joey Bond]

Age aside, Goldeneye was more tailored to Dalton and would have been great.

Although I'm not sure if, had Dalton been Bond, Craig would have succeeded him as they are very similar Bonds.

[Eurospy]

When is first read where this topic was about, I could expect some: Yes, Dalton would have been better, Brosnan sucks etc.

I don't think Goldeneye could have been that great with Dalton. If it was made the same way as LTK, Goldeneye would probably have the same (boring for me) feeling as LTK . Altrough I think he did a great job in TLD. But the only problem I have with Dalton that he isn't as charismatic as the other Bond actors.

I mean, really, who can imagine Dalton in a sauna with Famke Janssen?

Actually, it seems that Michael France's early draft was written for Dalton (Pushkin even features in the plot).

I'm not saying that "Brosnan sucks" though, far from it (although I do prefer Dalton's and Craig's take on the character).

LTK also leaves me a bit cold, and I still haven't quite figured out exactly why. I think I was never a fan of the usual drug smuggling caper in a Bond movie. I think that he is quite charismatic though.

Not all charisma is the same, I guess. With Dalton it was ice-cold charisma, while Brosnan usually has charm perfectly molded with his charisma.

That's a lot of charisma.

Not wanting to veer too far off topic, I think that the villain's caper, or better yet - the way it's executed is an important part of the Bond formula.

LTK's plot seemed adequate for a big screen version of Miami Vice (Snachez being that kind of typical villain).

One of the factors that didn't allow me to be a bigger fan of Brosnan's portrayal of the character, I've come to realize, is the nuke plot. I grew tired of the villain-with-a-bomb (TND, TWINE - in a time where we also had The Peacemaker, The Sum of All Fears, etc.).

The Age of Brosnan plot-device pattern: Sattellite, Bomb, Bomb, Satelitte.

[Mister E]

That would be too long. At most Dalton should have done one or two more then turned in his Tux.

Actually, it seems that Michael France's early draft was written for Dalton (Pushkin even features in the plot).

Yep. I have that first draft and it was intended for Dalton. They managed to trim down the bloated action in the final film (which ended up TWINE,DAD,and QOS) but that early version had far less annoying dialogue and a bit more of a thriller aspect.

[Eurospy]

That would be too long. At most Dalton should have done one or two more then turned in his Tux.

Actually, it seems that Michael France's early draft was written for Dalton (Pushkin even features in the plot).

Yep. I have that first draft and it was intended for Dalton. They managed to trim down the bloated action in the final film (which ended up TWINE,DAD,and QOS) but that early version had far less annoying dialogue and a bit more of a thriller aspect.

As a matter of personal taste, it sounds more and more that I'd prefer France's version, in spite of potential flaws.

BTW - I think I can clearly see where they used enormous chunks of his draft in TWINE, but DAD and QOS? Really? What did they use from France in those last two?

[JimmyBond]

Not sure what was cribbed from France in DAD. But the freefall into a sinkhole was originally intended for Bond and Natalya in GE.

[Mister E]

As a matter of personal taste, it sounds more and more that I'd prefer France's version, in spite of potential flaws.

The script was by no means perfect but with some nessecary trimming and Dalton staying on board, I could easily see a better film then what we got. Still even in this early draft, I found the characters and dialogue far less annoying. There was no Boris and Xenia was far less ridiculous.

BTW - I think I can clearly see where they used enormous chunks of his draft in TWINE, but DAD and QOS? Really? What did they use from France in those last two?

There was a scene with M,Q, and some techicians at the NATO Communications/Control Center in which they attempt to destroy the space-based Tempest weapon (eventually renamed Goldeneye) with an anti-satelittle weapon. The whole thing plays out pretty much the same as the attempt to destroy The Icarcus Satelite in DIE ANOTHER DAY. Also the free fall sequence from QUANTUM OF SOLACE was orginially in this script.

[Eurospy]

Quite interesting, I had no idea about that. Thank you.

With TWINE it's as if they had done what Spielberg/Lucas with ROTLA for TOD - they had almost an entire plot built around the discarded sequences of the original draft.

You think we'll be having more sequences used from other drafts besides France's GE?

And am I mistaken or did Forster mention in an interview somewhere that an earlier idea for QOS was to have the finale in Switzerland (or some other snowy location)? That sounds like they'd have a different "villain's caper".

[Publius]

A slightly reworked GE would have made an excellent "Licence Renewed" to Dalton's LTK, while TND could have been his Thunderball/TSWLM. I wouldn't have wanted him to go any further, though, even if he has aged extremely well.

[Mister E]

You think we'll be having more sequences used from other drafts besides France's GE?

Yes it could happen. The PTS and the location of India in OCTOPUSSY was orginally intended for MOONRAKER.

And am I mistaken or did Forster mention in an interview somewhere that an earlier idea for QOS was to have the finale in Switzerland (or some other snowy location)? That sounds like they'd have a different "villain's caper".

Yes he said that.

[Harmsway]

You think we'll be having more sequences used from other drafts besides France's GE?

Sure, and we already have.

For example... Bond's maneuver on the guard in the bar in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH? Taken from Feirstein's TOMORROW NEVER DIES first draft. And DIE ANOTHER DAY's use of the Cuban cigar factory? Taken from the first draft of THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH.

So I daresay we'll see more leftover stuff used. And we should. There's still some good stuff floating around in the unused Bond drafts.

[Eurospy]

You think we'll be having more sequences used from other drafts besides France's GE?

Sure, and we already have.

For example... Bond's maneuver on the guard in the bar in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH? Taken from Feirstein's TOMORROW NEVER DIES first draft. And DIE ANOTHER DAY's use of the Cuban cigar factory? Taken from the first draft of THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH.

So I daresay we'll see more leftover stuff used. And we should. There's still some good stuff floating around in the unused Bond drafts.

Yes, I read Feirstein's draft and noticed at the time that TWINE nicked it. I also recall having read the TWINE draft where Bond chases the Cigar Girl in a jetpack (!) and shoots her, instead of begging not to blow them up. The one where Renard also uses a pet hwak to punish underlings (unfortunately that draft doesn't seem to be online anymore, I'd love to re-read it).

I'll throw in a wild prediction and say that there's a chance that they might use the unused Switzerland locale (and caper, whatever it might have been). It would be perfect to include the still-unused ice-climbing sequence from the TND early draft.

[coco1997]

Hey Eurospy, do you remember more about the whole jetpack/shooting the Cigar Girl thing? That always had me intrigued.

[Eurospy]

Hey Eurospy, do you remember more about the whole jetpack/shooting the Cigar Girl thing? That always had me intrigued.

Certainly.

From what I remember, it was all pretty much the same.

He quite simply chased her in a jetpack instead of the Q-Boat (this later version of the chase was much better), with the Cigar fleeing in her boat just like in the final version.

Eventually when she trades the boat for the balloon and Bond eventually ends up dangling from it (same as in the final version).

The key difference here is that in the film she has a gun and threatens to blow up the balloon, and Bond pleads her not to do that. In the early draft, she has a knife instead and starts cutting the rope that he's holding to (I LOVE this version of the scene). Bond, assuming that he's about to die, simply whips out his gun and shoots the balloon himself (the principle being that, if he's going to die, he might as well take her down with him. The rest of the scene reverts back to what we saw in the movie - turns out that the Millenium Dome was not the far beneath him and he ends up with a dislocated shoulder.

And there you go. That's all I remember from the PTS, hope it satisfied your curiosity.

[coco1997]

Hey Eurospy, do you remember more about the whole jetpack/shooting the Cigar Girl thing? That always had me intrigued.

Certainly.

From what I remember, it was all pretty much the same.

He quite simply chased her in a jetpack instead of the Q-Boat (this later version of the chase was much better), with the Cigar fleeing in her boat just like in the final version.

Eventually when she trades the boat for the balloon and Bond eventually ends up dangling from it (same as in the final version).

The key difference here is that in the film she has a gun and threatens to blow up the balloon, and Bond pleads her not to do that. In the early draft, she has a knife instead and starts cutting the rope that he's holding to (I LOVE this version of the scene). Bond, assuming that he's about to die, simply whips out his gun and shoots the balloon himself (the principle being that, if he's going to die, he might as well take her down with him. The rest of the scene reverts back to what we saw in the movie - turns out that the Millenium Dome was not the far beneath him and he ends up with a dislocated shoulder.

And there you go. That's all I remember from the PTS, hope it satisfied your curiosity.

Thanks for the insight, Eurospy. I prefer the way the Cigar Girl goes out in that draft, as well. Do you remember how Bond obtained the jet pack? Was it just taken from Q's lab as was the boat?

[Eurospy]

Thanks for the insight, Eurospy. I prefer the way the Cigar Girl goes out in that draft, as well. Do you remember how Bond obtained the jet pack? Was it just taken from Q's lab as was the boat?

Glad to help.

The jetpack was indeed taken from Q's lab, just like in the movie. A very wise decision, since it turned into what is the most exciting action sequence in that movie IMHO.

[Judo chop]

If they'd kept Dalton, they'd probably have been in the (stagnant) mood for keeping John Glen as well.

And nothing would be different. From the 80's, that is.

[Mister E]

If they'd kept Dalton, they'd probably have been in the (stagnant) mood for keeping John Glen as well.

And nothing would be different. From the 80's, that is.

I think Glen still would have been dumped even if Dalton remained. EON wanted to get the series rolling again in the 90's and that's why they got Campbell to direct.

Hey Eurospy, do you remember more about the whole jetpack/shooting the Cigar Girl thing? That always had me intrigued.

Certainly.

From what I remember, it was all pretty much the same.

He quite simply chased her in a jetpack instead of the Q-Boat (this later version of the chase was much better), with the Cigar fleeing in her boat just like in the final version.

Eventually when she trades the boat for the balloon and Bond eventually ends up dangling from it (same as in the final version).

The key difference here is that in the film she has a gun and threatens to blow up the balloon, and Bond pleads her not to do that. In the early draft, she has a knife instead and starts cutting the rope that he's holding to (I LOVE this version of the scene). Bond, assuming that he's about to die, simply whips out his gun and shoots the balloon himself (the principle being that, if he's going to die, he might as well take her down with him. The rest of the scene reverts back to what we saw in the movie - turns out that the Millenium Dome was not the far beneath him and he ends up with a dislocated shoulder.

And there you go. That's all I remember from the PTS, hope it satisfied your curiosity.

Thanks for the info. That would have been great to see on screen.

[Judo chop]

If they'd kept Dalton, they'd probably have been in the (stagnant) mood for keeping John Glen as well.

And nothing would be different. From the 80's, that is.

EON wanted to get the series rolling again in the 90's and that's why they got Campbell to direct.

And that's also why they got Pierce Brosnan: Bond By Birthright, a new Bond. My point was: if they'd kept Dalton, that probably would have been an indication that they didn't really have a taste for change to begin with. And thus... Glen.

Silly to argue about it, though. They didn't keep Dalton. So... it's theories upon theories.

[jamiah]

When I first read where this topic was about, I could expect some: Yes, Dalton would have been better, Brosnan sucks etc.

I don't think Goldeneye could have been that great with Dalton. If it was made the same way as LTK, Goldeneye would probably have the same (boring for me) feeling as LTK . Altrough I think he did a great job in TLD. But the only problem I have with Dalton that he isn't as charismatic as the other Bond actors.

I mean, really, who can imagine Dalton in a sauna with Famke Janssen?

I actually enjoyed Dalton as well in TLD. However, I never really got into LTK. Living Daylights while introducing an entirely different Bond was darker yet had moments of lightheartedness. License was WAY too serious in tone. I think he should have stuck around for one more film.

http://jamiahsh.tangents.org

[Mister E]

If they'd kept Dalton, they'd probably have been in the (stagnant) mood for keeping John Glen as well.

And nothing would be different. From the 80's, that is.

EON wanted to get the series rolling again in the 90's and that's why they got Campbell to direct.

And that's also why they got Pierce Brosnan: Bond By Birthright, a new Bond. My point was: if they'd kept Dalton, that probably would have been an indication that they didn't really have a taste for change to begin with. And thus... Glen.

Silly to argue about it, though. They didn't keep Dalton. So... it's theories upon theories.

I don't think that would have been an indication that Glen would have been kept. The attendance in Bond films slid during the 80's and the six year gap didn't help either. If Dalton was to return, I doubt anyone else besides him would have come back as well.

[Blonde Bond]

Dalton could've worked as aging Bond from -87 to -02. I mean, the man has aged gracefully...

[Eurospy]

Dalton could've worked as aging Bond from -87 to -02. I mean, the man has aged gracefully...

If so, he should play The Equalizer on the big screen. Seems like a good fit.