37 replies to this topic

[mario007]

Although QOS is doing good in the US, I am sure EON wants to increase US revenues for bond 23. No matter how much we deny the importance of the US take ... it is like the white elephant in the room.

I see the quick cutting & shaky cam action secens in QOS and the hiring of Dan Bradly EON's bid to get American audiances on board the bond train ... it did not suceed as well as intended imho.

The other being selecting Alicia Keys to do a duet with White for the QOS theme. Which also produced less than stellar results.

How do you thing EON will approach bond 23 to get better US return?

Edited by mario007, 24 November 2008 - 06:00 PM.

[Zorin Industries]

Although QOS is doing good in the US, I am sure EON wants to increase US revenues for bond 23. No matter how much we deny the importance of the US take ... it is like the white elephant in the room.

I see the quick cutting & shaky cam action secens in QOS and the hiring of Dan Bradly EON's bid to get American audiances on board the bond train ... it did not suceed as well as intended imho.

what do you guys suggest EON would do to get better US return for bond 23?

Not listen to anything that suggests they need to tailor a Bond film to American audience.

America is not the final word in box office in a world that sees Japan, China, Europe, Russia and Australia feature somewhat prominently in the box office stakes.

There was no "shaky cam" in SOLACE as an attempt to appease the American audiences. Dan Bradley was hired because he is a world class stunt expert - as was Vic Armstrong, Gary Powell, Bob Simmons and many many more.

[Mister Asterix]

They won’t.

[DanMan]

This needs to end. The film is expected to hit $200 million in the U.S. which would make it the biggest Bond film in the U.S. since YOLT back in 1967. Internationally it will most likely be the biggest film of the year. I doubt any Bond film will ever be a huge blockbuster in the U.S. like the days of Connery ever again so QOS is pretty much the best we can hope for in terms of B.O. for a while I think.

Who would of thought that the "blonde Bond" Daniel Craig would outgross all of his predecessors save for Connery himself.

[mario007]

thanks for your replies guys! QOS is indeed doing very well ... it will come colse to $200 million imho but will not surpass it.

Do you guys see EON going with an American director, actor (for the bad guy, of course) locations (prominant)and/or maybe a bond girl ... somebody serious unlike the cartoon Jinx?

I would like to see ... somebody like Al Pacino do a cameo as the head of Quntum in a understated role? Actually he would be great as a villian for Craig to square off against ... any thoughts?

Edited by mario007, 24 November 2008 - 09:56 PM.

[Mister E]

Again what is this illusion of failure ? The film is doing very good business. I had simular reservations like people had about the movie's action scens but EON isn't going listen to mine or anyone's complaints when the numbers say different.

I would like to see ... somebody like Al Pacino do a cameo as the head of Quntum in a understated role? Actually he would be great as a villian for Craig to square off against ... any thoughts?

That's a horrid idea. Let's forget that he's too big of an American name, he hasn't pulled off a decent preformance in years.

[ImTheMoneypenny]

Not listen to anything that suggests they need to tailor a Bond film to American audience.

America is not the final word in box office in a world that sees Japan, China, Europe, Russia and Australia feature somewhat prominently in the box office stakes.

There was no "shaky cam" in SOLACE as an attempt to appease the American audiences. Dan Bradley was hired because he is a world class stunt expert - as was Vic Armstrong, Gary Powell, Bob Simmons and many many more.

I couldn't agree more Zorin.

I'd be disappointed if EON went backwards in hopes of appeasing Americans. CR and QOS are incredible films and are by no means failures just because the majority of Americans are onto the next flavour of the month. EON needs to just keep doing what they're doing.

[Quincy]

I think Bond is too "Americanized" already. Had plenty of action, what more could you ask for? Say they should stick to the Fleming novels and what they are doing now. Money will come, but you can't expect to pull a "The Dark Knight" and shut the whole world.

[dinovelvet]

This needs to end. The film is expected to hit $200 million in the U.S. which would make it the biggest Bond film in the U.S. since YOLT back in 1967. Internationally it will most likely be the biggest film of the year. I doubt any Bond film will ever be a huge blockbuster in the U.S. like the days of Connery ever again so QOS is pretty much the best we can hope for in terms of B.O. for a while I think.

Yeah in all honesty I think we're hitting the ceiling of modern American interest in 007. For all their differences in style, tone, quality, and content, DAD and CR earned almost exactly the same amount in the USA. QOS will nudge past both of them, though not by much, and that's riding on a huge wave of post-CR hype and more women checking out Bond thanks to Craig. Here's a disturbing chart of top grossing spy movies in the USA :

http://www.boxoffice...art/?id=spy.htm

Look what's there - two Mission Impossibles, two Bournes, and two friggin' Austin Powers films! Bond at SEVENTH place!!! Of course, this is without inflation adjustment, where we'd probably see Thunderball and Goldfinger somewhere near the top, but as a look at modern box office, its depressing news. Everywhere else on the planet, Bond is HUGE and competes with the Harry Potters, Indys, Dark Knights, etc, and QOS is looking likely to be the No.1 non-US champ of the year. Not so in the US; it'll probably finish a respectable 8th for the year, with about $190 mil, but it just isn't in the big leagues that its in worldwide.
So the big question is...why? Every other country on the planet embraces Bond as a huge blockbuster, but interest is less so in America. EON has tried everything. OTT CGI action spectacular? Critically acclaimed stripped down back to basics Bond? Bourne style short sharp thrillride? None of these has propelled Bond to new heights, box office wise.
Then again, maybe EON just shouldn't bother trying to appeal to a nation that put Beverly Hills Chihuahua at No.1 for two weeks.

[Daddy Bond]

Dinovelvet you wrote:

"Then again, maybe EON just shouldn't bother trying to appeal to a nation that put Beverly Hills Chihuahua at No.1 for two weeks."

Oh, stop it.

Listen, the audience in the U.S. is just so amazingly diverse. There are slews of cultures and sub-cultures, ethnic groups and tastes that range from the very sophisticated to the banal. Some Americans spend their evenings sipping brandy and listening to Bach on their stereo, others are down drinking a beer at the honky tonk.

There's no such thing as an American audience with one single taste, and it is utterly impossible to craft a film that cuts across all of those lines.

Yes, there ARE those blockbusters, like Batman, that cut across more of those lines, however, Bond has a specific appeal to certain types of Americans, but not all of them. Blockbusters are usually (not always) films that are highly unique and highly marketable franchises (Spiderman, Harry Potter, Star Wars, etc.).

There are TONS of Americans who are Bond fans, but Bond does not cut across as many cultural lines as, say, Batman. And, I can guarantee that the crowd that goes to see Beverly Hills Chihuahua is mostly a different crowd than the crowd that goes to see QoS. I remember seeing the trailer to Chihuahua and thinking, "You couldn't PAY me to sit through that movie!"

So, it is completely inaccurate to speak of making a movie for an American audience (as if there is such a think as a unified American audience).

So, I agree, a ceiling has probably been hit with Bond in the U.S., a respectable ceiling, but a ceiling nevertheless.

[mario007]

Insightful posts dinovelvet and daddy bond. Bond had reached a glass celing in the US. The spy series ceiling. It will be interesting to see if the next borne movie shatters it!

I was just thinking what did TDK do to cut across those cultural lines that daddy bond was talking about? It had a decent story, disorienting action scenes and mostly british actors! Can't we say the same for QOS? The same as borne. I am just tring to figure this out ...

Maybe its the James Bond Brand itself ... that is holding the series back in the US. They tried having Halle Berry (which gave DAD a small boost, but not by much). They had a love story/tradegy in CR (which should have appealed to more moviegoers).

How can EON overcome this? Should they change the marketing? Or is it better to keep going as is ... with a steady stream of profits and not reach impossible hights which they would never be able to top and then pitter out ... killing the series?

Edited by mario007, 25 November 2008 - 12:45 AM.

[sorking]

In a world where middle America ignores the bulk of world cinema and TV - even British shows, which can't appear on the main networks while we have Friends pretty much on a loop - there's exactly one thing Eon could ever do to make Bond more financially successful to the wider USA:

Make Bond American.

And since, thankfully, that will never happen, I guess we'll have to make do with a huge global take, a significant American box office, and the knowledge that the franchise is in decent hands.

Only changes in front of the camera make a big financial impact when it comes to superficial change. Since when do most movie-goers know who wrote and directed the films? (Greegrass and the Scott brothers are doing fine at the BO, after all.) So it's the attitude - a more pro-American stance in the writing - and the casting of characters. And seriously, what use was adding Agent Falco to DAD?

The elephant in the room isn't Bond's financial situation in the States. It's that the major film and TV media are unwilling to bring too much outside culture into the U.S. market. Whether that's down to audience demand or simplistic corporate management is up to the individual to decide.

[[dark]]

I love that James Bond is a franchise that doesn't pander to American audiences anymore. Gone is the BrosnanBond tradition of casting American women (no offence to US actresses, but Denise Richards and Halle Berry are the two major weak points of their respective films, in my view). The cast of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace is a superb blend of British and European actors that truly appeals to the world at large and not just the US.

In any case, Bond is doing just fine at the US box office and his foreign appeal is at a tremendous high. That there are doomsayers on these forums pronouncing the fall of Bond is ridiculous.

[EyesOnly]

I have a friend who is as big a Bond fan as I am. He watches the numbers very closely and is so afraid that one day the producers will decide it's not important to release bond in the States anymore....I for one, had no idea how to reply to him but to tell him that will never happen.

[Mister E]

I love that James Bond is a franchise that doesn't pander to American audiences anymore. Gone is the BrosnanBond tradition of casting American women (no offence to US actresses, but Denise Richards and Halle Berry are the two major weak points of their respective films, in my view). The cast of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace is a superb blend of British and European actors that truly appeals to the world at large and not just the US.

In any case, Bond is doing just fine at the US box office and his foreign appeal is at a tremendous high. That there are doomsayers on these forums pronouncing the fall of Bond is ridiculous.

Who says they aren't pandering to American audiences anymore ? They just are avoiding big name American actresses.

[Quincy]

Meybe Americans are just "tired: of James Bond. After all it's been what 47 yrs.

[Mister E]

Meybe Americans are just "tired: of James Bond. After all it's been what 47 yrs.

I think that is false as well. This movie has done very well in the states.

[eddychaput]

Hey, don't worry about the Americans. They still like Bond. They just like.. other lesser material as well.

In Canada the race was pretty tight from what I gather. That stupid Twilight thing made about 5 Million, but QOS still raked in about 3 million.


North America will never abandon Bond. Not if I can help it!

[Zorin Industries]

I love that James Bond is a franchise that doesn't pander to American audiences anymore. Gone is the BrosnanBond tradition of casting American women (no offence to US actresses, but Denise Richards and Halle Berry are the two major weak points of their respective films, in my view). The cast of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace is a superb blend of British and European actors that truly appeals to the world at large and not just the US.

In any case, Bond is doing just fine at the US box office and his foreign appeal is at a tremendous high. That there are doomsayers on these forums pronouncing the fall of Bond is ridiculous.

Who says they aren't pandering to American audiences anymore ? They just are avoiding big name American actresses.

What's that got to with it?

[double o ego]

Appealing to the American Audience is the worst thing a Bond movie can do. If American audiences are fed up with cinematic Bond after almost 50 years then they should just go watch their Bourne's and xXx movies. Bond should have and retain everything British about him and travel to various locations as has been the case since day 1.

[SecretAgentFan]

This needs to end. The film is expected to hit $200 million in the U.S. which would make it the biggest Bond film in the U.S. since YOLT back in 1967. Internationally it will most likely be the biggest film of the year. I doubt any Bond film will ever be a huge blockbuster in the U.S. like the days of Connery ever again so QOS is pretty much the best we can hope for in terms of B.O. for a while I think.

Yeah in all honesty I think we're hitting the ceiling of modern American interest in 007. For all their differences in style, tone, quality, and content, DAD and CR earned almost exactly the same amount in the USA. QOS will nudge past both of them, though not by much, and that's riding on a huge wave of post-CR hype and more women checking out Bond thanks to Craig. Here's a disturbing chart of top grossing spy movies in the USA :

http://www.boxoffice...art/?id=spy.htm

Look what's there - two Mission Impossibles, two Bournes, and two friggin' Austin Powers films! Bond at SEVENTH place!!! Of course, this is without inflation adjustment, where we'd probably see Thunderball and Goldfinger somewhere near the top, but as a look at modern box office, its depressing news. Everywhere else on the planet, Bond is HUGE and competes with the Harry Potters, Indys, Dark Knights, etc, and QOS is looking likely to be the No.1 non-US champ of the year. Not so in the US; it'll probably finish a respectable 8th for the year, with about $190 mil, but it just isn't in the big leagues that its in worldwide.
So the big question is...why? Every other country on the planet embraces Bond as a huge blockbuster, but interest is less so in America. EON has tried everything. OTT CGI action spectacular? Critically acclaimed stripped down back to basics Bond? Bourne style short sharp thrillride? None of these has propelled Bond to new heights, box office wise.
Then again, maybe EON just shouldn't bother trying to appeal to a nation that put Beverly Hills Chihuahua at No.1 for two weeks.

Could it be that Americans just are not that likely to embrace a British hero? A guy who also criticizes US spies and saves the world while the Americans obviously can´t do it?

In the US, the British are still considered arrogant and snooty (although intellectually threatening and superior), am I wrong?




Coming back to the question of this thread...

I expect Bond 23 to be less angst-ridden and more of a big, lavish and gag-filled adventure, Craig´s "The Spy Who Loved Me". (He already had lots of practice in QOS .)

[avl]

Coming back to the question of this thread...

I expect Bond 23 to be less angst-ridden and more of a big, lavish and gag-filled adventure, Craig´s "The Spy Who Loved Me". (He already had lots of practice in QOS .)

Craig's Goldfinger I think

[DanMan]

If anything we should be happy that admissions in the U.S. have been relatively the same since GE. That's six straight films where the audience has been largely the same with little drop offs. This hasn't happened at any other time in the series and the worldwide numbers have been been on the rise for the last decade.

Goldeneye (1995) $173,223,904
Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) $193,279,798
The World Is Not Enough (1999) $176,921,512
Die Another Day (2002) $196,122,262
Casino Royale (2006) $180,995,022
Quantum Of Solace (2008) Est. $180-200 Million

[mario007]

If anything we should be happy that admissions in the U.S. have been relatively the same since GE. That's six straight films where the audience has been largely the same with little drop offs. This hasn't happened at any other time in the series and the worldwide numbers have been been on the rise for the last decade.

Goldeneye (1995) $173,223,904
Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) $193,279,798
The World Is Not Enough (1999) $176,921,512
Die Another Day (2002) $196,122,262
Casino Royale (2006) $180,995,022
Quantum Of Solace (2008) Est. $180-200 Million

This is exactly it DanMan ... you have illustrated the point beautifully. It seems like EON hits a brick wall when they try to expand the American audiance base for bond films. More or less the same people in the US go to see the bond films on a regular basis. After CR I thought there would be a very healthy demand for QOS (not that the BO in the US is bad or anything) but alas, the same fan base saw it on opening weekend instead of it being spread over a few weekes hence the big opening and subsequent quick drop-off. See for example how the borne movies (which I am not too crazy about) are continuing to build an audiance in the US market.

With the cost of production increasing in leaps and bounds with every film ... will it be even profitable to release the movies in the US? What is the long-term strategy for EON? I think the world of them as a good business minded film production company ... hopefully they will solve this problem in some way in the future ... thoughts?

Edited by mario007, 25 November 2008 - 04:13 PM.

[jaguar007]

I think EON tried to hard to cater to the US audience with the Brosnan films. I think if they continue with the trend they are on right now, the US box office will increase. QoS opened with an approx 40% jump on Casino Royale's opening. I think if QoS had been a bit better on the editing and had the word of mouth and reviews of CR - QoS could have beat Twilight for its second week.

We know MGM wanted EON to hire Brosnan to appeal to the American market, and it worked at the time, but right now the American audience seems to be embracing Craig more than they ever did Brosnan. Bond popularity in the US is bigger than it has been in years and if Craig's #3 is the right movie, it could propel Bond back to blockbuster status.

[Mister E]

I love that James Bond is a franchise that doesn't pander to American audiences anymore. Gone is the BrosnanBond tradition of casting American women (no offence to US actresses, but Denise Richards and Halle Berry are the two major weak points of their respective films, in my view). The cast of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace is a superb blend of British and European actors that truly appeals to the world at large and not just the US.

In any case, Bond is doing just fine at the US box office and his foreign appeal is at a tremendous high. That there are doomsayers on these forums pronouncing the fall of Bond is ridiculous.

Who says they aren't pandering to American audiences anymore ? They just are avoiding big name American actresses.

What's that got to with it?

I am just saying the lack of American names dosen't mean EON isn't pandering to the States. There is still a whole mess of action .

[Lazenby]

I agree that the producers have tried to expand the scope of their films to include American audiences. License Revoked was changed to License to Kill because it was felt that American audiences would not know what the word revoked meant. Pierce Brosnan actually said “chill out” in one of his movies. This was no doubt the lowest point in the series. Casino Royal had a Texas Hold’m game as opposed to Baccarat. And now, it appears that Quantum has quick cuts and shorter scenes to accommodate the ADD that we have. As a proud American, I do not want Bond “Americanized”. I want European locations, intelligent and sharp dialog, longer scenes and a story. I want a challenging movie that provokes thought and emotion. I would spend the requisite time on a smart script with great dialog with action that drove the story, and attempt to cut the budget drastically so the profit margin could increase. Matthew Vaughn made Layer Cake on a couple of million dollar budget and it looked like an expensive movie. If you make a quality film, people will come to see it. Action movies are like sugar bursts that only last a couple of weeks at best.

[stamper]

Who would of thought that the "blonde Bond" Daniel Craig would outgross all of his predecessors save for Connery himself.

It was already done, and with a good movie, called Casino Royale, not inflation adjusted.

I love that James Bond is a franchise that doesn't pander to American audiences anymore.

You're joking, right ?

[Mister E]

Coming back to the question of this thread...

I expect Bond 23 to be less angst-ridden and more of a big, lavish and gag-filled adventure, Craig´s "The Spy Who Loved Me". (He already had lots of practice in QOS .)

I would actually like to see Craig in the vein of "THE SPY WHO LOVED ME" novelization, it still had some Moore-isms but it's alot more of a genuine spy thriller.

[DaveBond21]

Dinovelvet you wrote:

"Then again, maybe EON just shouldn't bother trying to appeal to a nation that put Beverly Hills Chihuahua at No.1 for two weeks."

Oh, stop it.

Listen, the audience in the U.S. is just so amazingly diverse. There are slews of cultures and sub-cultures, ethnic groups and tastes that range from the very sophisticated to the banal. Some Americans spend their evenings sipping brandy and listening to Bach on their stereo, others are down drinking a beer at the honky tonk.

There's no such thing as an American audience with one single taste, and it is utterly impossible to craft a film that cuts across all of those lines.

Yes, there ARE those blockbusters, like Batman, that cut across more of those lines, however, Bond has a specific appeal to certain types of Americans, but not all of them. Blockbusters are usually (not always) films that are highly unique and highly marketable franchises (Spiderman, Harry Potter, Star Wars, etc.).

There are TONS of Americans who are Bond fans, but Bond does not cut across as many cultural lines as, say, Batman. And, I can guarantee that the crowd that goes to see Beverly Hills Chihuahua is mostly a different crowd than the crowd that goes to see QoS. I remember seeing the trailer to Chihuahua and thinking, "You couldn't PAY me to sit through that movie!"

So, it is completely inaccurate to speak of making a movie for an American audience (as if there is such a think as a unified American audience).

So, I agree, a ceiling has probably been hit with Bond in the U.S., a respectable ceiling, but a ceiling nevertheless.

Impressive post, Daddy Bond, good work. Still intrigued to read your opinion on the fact that Bond is still having pre-marital sex in QOS!

Back to the topic. No, most Americans I know don't want to see 007 in the US, they'd rather be taken to other countries. And some people argue that the movies set in the USA (Goldfinger's latter half, DAF, AVAK) haven't exactly set the world on fire.