65 replies to this topic

[Richard]

A movie begins with the script. If the script isn't good, the movie will be problematic no matter how well produced or directed.

The scripts have been disappointing since the passing of Richard Maibaum (with whom I corresponded). At worst, the work of Purvis and Wade has not been up to a professional standard. Their writing is pedestrian at best (sorry). It is past time to move on from this association.

The Bond films are in dire need of good writing and one consistent voice in the writing. A seriously talented writer should be given sufficient time to craft a Bond screenplay without being micro-managed or second-guessed.

I suggest one of the following writers be considered:

David Koepp
David Mamet
Christopher Nolan
Tom Stoppard

Edited by Richard, 23 November 2008 - 03:37 AM.

[Bucky]

i doubt they could get chris nolan to write the script although maybe his brother jonathan nolan.

CR and QOS have both been good though in my opinion. i dont mind having Purvis & Wade do the initial draft and having Paul Haggis come in and make it great. for the next one he will have more time also.

[Innukchuck]

Neal Purvis, Robert Wade, Paul Haggins and David Koepp

[marygoodnight]

Neal Purvis, Robert Wade, Paul Haggins and David Koepp

NONE OF THE ABOVE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Bucky]

i dont really care for david koepp's work.

i know he usually only writes/directs but i think brad bird could be a good choice.

[Pierce - Daniel]

CR had a great script thanks to Haggis the relationship with Vesper was perfectly crafted, some of CR's dialogue was fantastic I'm thinking The Bond/Mathis scene.

The first Bond scripts DN, FRWL, GF and TB are still the best scripts, FRWL in particular the film is razor sharp and the writting is so perfect it makes the actors job easier, I mean Kerim Bey and Bond on screen together is electrifying stuff, some of the best dialogue ever writtern in a film is in FRWL, one of the best films ever made imo.

[sorking]

As I said on the already-existing thread on the same subject, a Steven Knight screenplay with a polish by Peter Morgan would knock my socks off.

[Captain Tightpants]

Me.

[Harmsway]

I suggest one of the following writers be considered:

David Koepp
David Mamet
Christopher Nolan
Tom Stoppard

I get, to an extent, why you'd name Mamet, Nolan, and Stoppard, but why on earth you'd name Koepp is beyond me. You really want the guy behind THE LOST WORLD: JURASSIC PARK and INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL?

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing a Mamet Bond script, but Mamet doesn't do rewrites, so they'd probably have to bring in another writer. Tom Stoppard would be excellent, though - a writer with enormous talent who has a real "mainstream" streak in his cinematic work. His stage work is pure artistic genius).

Another suggestion would be Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Chabon, a guy who appreciates genre work and has worked on blockbuster Hollywood films before.

[jaguar007]

I think the person who would best write a Bond screenplay is a little known Hollywood screenwriter named John Cox

[Innukchuck]

How about Neal Purvis, Robert Wade, Paul Haggins and Michael Gambon?

[Richard]

CR had a great script thanks to Haggis the relationship with Vesper was perfectly crafted, some of CR's dialogue was fantastic I'm thinking The Bond/Mathis scene.

Casino Royale needed a page-one rewrite. The basic story is there, but it's a royal mess.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the Bond / Vesper relationship. That's what disappointed me the most.

In the novel, Vesper is a double-agent. She betrays Bond out of conviction, before the story starts. He doesn't know that. As the story progresses she gradually falls in love with him, then enters into a romance, but she continues to press the betrayal. She is conflicted, and it hurts her. Like Bond, she has to do her job regardless of personal feelings. This allows the emotional tension between them to build in intensity. Eventually Vesper can't stand it anymore and commits suicide.

In the movie Vesper's betrayal comes to late in the story.Vesper of the film doesn't have the arc and complexity of the Vesper in the novel. The Vesper of the film doesn't take the risks or expose her vulnerability like in the novel. Her motivation is "updated." By substituting blackmail for conviction, Vesper is reduced to the most shallow kind of feminist stereotype, which I suppose was the whole point of the changes. There's no foreshadowing of her betrayal. Suddenly it's there, two hours into the film, as the transition into a postscript after the main action is done, a kind of fourth act (and incidentally the best part of the movie). Also, the blackmail occurs off-screen, not as backstory, but as an after-thought explained in dialog. Vesper is a cypher for politically correct put-downs, criticism, whining, and bombastic, expository dialog. The subtext to her banter is backhanded. Listening to her dialog is like watching an episode of Oprah. Please, no more Purvis and Wade screenplays.

The first Bond scripts DN, FRWL, GF and TB are still the best scripts, FRWL in particular the film is razor sharp and the writting is so perfect it makes the actors job easier, I mean Kerim Bey and Bond on screen together is electrifying stuff, some of the best dialogue ever writtern in a film is in FRWL, one of the best films ever made imo.

I agree wholeheartedly.
I would add On Her Majesty's Secret Service to the list. Richard Maibaum's script, written in collaboration with Peter Hunt, stands as one of the most literate, intelligent, subtle, and clever writing of the entire series. It's an elegant, graceful script faithful to the letter and spirit of Fleming, who has always been the source of strength for the films.

Edited by Richard, 23 November 2008 - 04:54 AM.

[Mister E]

Neal Purvis, Robert Wade, Paul Haggins and David Koepp

A big hell no to all four.

[Quantumofsolace007]

David Goyer (Batman Begins the dark knight and the blade trilogy)

What i loved about the new batman films (first heir main focus being on batman as about to the burton schumacher era focusing more on the villans) But beyond that Goyer is a writer who when given a character does reseqarch and stays true to the character. Elemnts of some of my favourite Graphic novels are clearly shown in the batman films. I feel Goyers would do just that he would read the 12 novels and 9 short stories and really take all of that and craft an orignal idea based upon Fleming's ideas and he would take Scenes and characters (maybe even the garden of death) from flemign and bring them to screne.

yes he's american but I still say he'd give us a flemingesquue bond 23 (as well as fleming title.)

[Mister E]

Peter Morgan
David Mamet
Ted Tally
Rene Balcer

[Harmsway]

In the movie Vesper's betrayal comes to late in the story.

No it doesn't. She's already been working for Quantum long before Bond meets her.

Her motivation is "updated." By substituting blackmail for conviction, Vesper is reduced to the most shallow kind of feminist stereotype, which I suppose was the whole point of the changes.

What do you mean? Both Fleming's version and the cinematic version were blackmailed via their lovers. In Fleming's CASINO ROYALE, it was an RAF operative, and in EON's CASINO ROYALE, it was the Algerian boyfriend.

[Richard]

i doubt they could get chris nolan to write the script although maybe his brother jonathan nolan.

Christopher Nolan has stated in interviews that he wants to make James Bond films, that loves the Bond mythos and that he started writing because of it. I'm sure he'd do it under the right circumstances, and on the basis of The Dark Knight he'd probably write Bond better than anyone else. He'd also want to direct it, too. The real issue here is control. He would require creative control, and I doubt they'd give it to him.

CR and QOS have both been good though in my opinion. i dont mind having Purvis & Wade do the initial draft and having Paul Haggis come in and make it great. for the next one he will have more time also.

Purvis and Wade are barely competent. I blame them for most of what's wrong with the series. The source material by Ian Fleming was strong enough to support Casino Royale. It will always be his best story, a hardboiled internalized noir that puts the voice of James Bond into our consciousness. The editorial polish by Paul Haggis is largely responsible for anything that's worthwhile in that overrated script. He was allowed more time on Quantum of Solace so that script is more refined, but he was still building on a bad foundation. Haggis doesn't need Purvis and Wade to write a script. Haggis is a fine writer, but I don't think he's the best mind for a Bond story.

Neal Purvis, Robert Wade, Paul Haggis

Please, no! Not again!

Edited by Richard, 23 November 2008 - 04:52 AM.

[Harmsway]

I'm sure he'd do it under the right circumstances, and on the basis of The Dark Knight he'd probably write Bond better than anyone else.

How does that figure?

[Richard]

As I said on the already-existing thread on the same subject, a Steven Knight screenplay with a polish by Peter Morgan would knock my socks off.

Steven Knight wrote Eastern Promises and ... Dirty Pretty Things for Frears ? ... yes, he could write a very interesting Bond. Morgan wrote The Other Bolyn Girl, right? Good story and sexually mature. Great suggestions.

Sorry I did not know about an earlier thread.

[Harmsway]

Morgan wrote The Other Bolyn Girl, right? Good story and sexually mature.

I thought THE OTHER BOLEYN GIRL was dreck. Now, I'm aware that he's actually done other things of greater accomplishment, but I'd hardly praise him on the basis of that woefully mediocre piece of work.

[Richard]

I suggest one of the following writers be considered:

David Koepp
David Mamet
Christopher Nolan
Tom Stoppard

I get, to an extent, why you'd name Mamet, Nolan, and Stoppard, but why on earth you'd name Koepp is beyond me. You really want the guy behind THE LOST WORLD: JURASSIC PARK and INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL?

The quality of Koepp's writing stands head and shoulders above Purvis and Wade, but he'd be my last choice to replace them on the list. He's not that bad, really. He's a crowd pleaser, very adaptable, and he'd have no trouble recognizing the strengths of the Bond world.

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing a Mamet Bond script, but Mamet doesn't do rewrites, so they'd probably have to bring in another writer.

Why assume that a Bond script needs to be written and then rewritten by someone else? Why not just have one writer who knows what he's doing and doesn't need help? I was raised under the old adage that anyone who needs to ask for help ought not to start out in the first place. David Mamet never ceases to astonish me. He understands genre writing on an intuitive level. He's my first choice for a Bond script. Let him start from scratch and without collaboration. He is not English, and if the producers feel his script needs to be "Englishified" let an English writer adjust the syntax of the dialog without changing it.

Tom Stoppard would be excellent, though - a writer with enormous talent who has a real "mainstream" streak in his cinematic work.

We found something to agree on. I loved Stoppard's scripts to Poodle Springs, which actually improved on the novel, and to Enigma, which was an instant espionage classic that evokes Fleming's Casino Royale in subtle ways. Actually, now that you mention it, Stoppard would have been the best writer, and the right writer, to adapt Casino Royale into a film. Think about it. The very thought of Stoppard writing Casino Royale brings tears to mine eyes. Anyhow, if he wrote a Bond film, I'm sure it would be a masterpiece and an instant classic.

His stage work is pure artistic genius).

You can say that again!

His stage work is pure artistic genius).

You can say that again!

His stage work is pure artistic genius).

You can say that again!

His stage work is pure artistic genius).

You can say that again!

Another suggestion would be Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Chabon, a guy who appreciates genre work and has worked on blockbuster Hollywood films before.

Chabon's contribution to Spiderman 2 was first-rate, I thought, but I don't know. He seems to have other things on his mind that aren't Bondian.

[Mister E]

The quality of Koepp's writing stands head and shoulders above Purvis and Wade, but he'd be my last choice to replace them on the list. He's not that bad, really. He's a crowd pleaser, very adaptable, and he'd have no trouble recognizing the strengths of the Bond world.

I don't agree. Koepp is barely above the quality of either writer.

[Harmsway]

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing a Mamet Bond script, but Mamet doesn't do rewrites, so they'd probably have to bring in another writer.

Why assume that a Bond script needs to be written and then rewritten by someone else?

Given that Mamet doesn't do rewrites on his "for hire" fare, they'd need to bring in someone else to do the polish, just to make sure everything fits the locations and last minute developments, even if the script met everybody else's expections.

David Mamet never ceases to astonish me. He understands genre writing on an intuitive level.

To an extent, but his HANNIBAL screenplay was pretty terrible (and was rightly entirely scrapped).

Anyhow, if [Tom Stoppard] wrote a Bond film, I'm sure it would be a masterpiece and an instant classic.

I'm not sure I agree. He's not a terribly consistent screenwriter (for example, his rejected GOLDEN COMPASS screenplay wasn't up to snuff), so while I'd be elated with him, I don't think he's at all a guarantee of quality.

Chabon's contribution to Spiderman 2 was first-rate, I thought, but I don't know. He seems to have other things on his mind that aren't Bondian.

I think he'd be up for the task.

[Richard]

Neal Purvis, Robert Wade, Paul Haggins and David Koepp

A big hell no to all four.

Peter Morgan
David Mamet
Ted Tally
Rene Balcer

I don't know who Rene Balcer is. What's he done that makes you think he could do Bond?

Ted Tally completely missed the boat on All the Pretty Horses. More to the point, his serial killer scripts reflect a mind too dark and too bleak for my idea of James Bond. A Ted Tally script would just depress me. He's the reason I've sworn off watching serial killer movies. No more serial killer movies in my life, thank you. Which is not to say he's a bad writer. He's a fine writer, but he's not my idea of a Bond writer.

The quality of Koepp's writing stands head and shoulders above Purvis and Wade, but he'd be my last choice to replace them on the list. He's not that bad, really. He's a crowd pleaser, very adaptable, and he'd have no trouble recognizing the strengths of the Bond world.

I don't agree. Koepp is barely above the quality of either writer.

I gather you are not overly impressed with Purvis & Wade, then? Expound, please.

As I said on the already-existing thread on the same subject, a Steven Knight screenplay with a polish by Peter Morgan would knock my socks off.

May I trouble you to post a link to the already existing thread of which you so solemnly speak?

[DR76]

Bring back Paul Haggis. And this time, allow him to finalize the script instead of someone else.

[Richard]

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing a Mamet Bond script, but Mamet doesn't do rewrites, so they'd probably have to bring in another writer.

Why assume that a Bond script needs to be written and then rewritten by someone else?

Given that Mamet doesn't do rewrites on his "for hire" fare, they'd need to bring in someone else to do the polish, just to make sure everything fits the locations and last minute developments, even if the script met everybody else's expections.

David Mamet never ceases to astonish me. He understands genre writing on an intuitive level.

To an extent, but his HANNIBAL screenplay was pretty terrible (and was rightly entirely scrapped).
I didn't read it, so I don't know. But I know his other work, and that's more than enough for me. Of course, the producers should invite him to direct it, too, and then stay out of his hair.

Anyhow, if [Tom Stoppard] wrote a Bond film, I'm sure it would be a masterpiece and an instant classic.

I'm not sure I agree. He's not a terribly consistent screenwriter (for example, his rejected GOLDEN COMPASS screenplay wasn't up to snuff), so while I'd be elated with him, I don't think he's at all a guarantee of quality.
Nobody's perfect. I think Stoppard is a guarantee of quality, insofar as a guarantee is possible.

Chabon's contribution to Spiderman 2 was first-rate, I thought, but I don't know. He seems to have other things on his mind that aren't Bondian.

I think he'd be up for the task.

Perhaps, but I'd be more comfortable with Stoppard.

With regard to Mamet's and Stoppard's rejected scripts, everybody has a few of those, and it is no red flag in view of the scripts they do right. I prefer to think of all the successful screenplays they've written, successful both creatively and then, because it does matter, financially.

Any other suggestions?

Edited by Richard, 23 November 2008 - 07:28 AM.

[Richard]

Bring back Paul Haggis. And this time, allow him to finalize the script instead of someone else.

I would certainly prefer that Paul Haggis initiate the screenplay as well as finalize it instead of building on a quicksand provided by Purvis & Wade. A solo Haggis script would be much stronger than a collaboration with two bozos. My problem with Haggis is that his writing does not reflect the British and European culture that I identify with James Bond, and I've missed that in the recent films. It's a way of thinking, a kind of perspective, that has changed for the worse. Also, the political correctness of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace just drives me up the wall and I honestly feel diminishes the Bond films. It has no business being there. I assume it is imposed by Barbara Broccoli, but Haggis seems so comfortable with it and writes it so well. I wish he'd stop.

[Jim]

A movie begins with the script.

I understood Bond movies to start with the money.

They have a habit of filming things before the script is signed off, and cheerfully admit this - the ski jump, the mardi gras, probably the Palio, the whole of Die Another Day.

It'll be the same again - a series of good ideas casually linked together in search of a story.

[sorking]

Her motivation is "updated." By substituting blackmail for conviction, Vesper is reduced to the most shallow kind of feminist stereotype, which I suppose was the whole point of the changes.

What do you mean? Both Fleming's version and the cinematic version were blackmailed via their lovers. In Fleming's CASINO ROYALE, it was an RAF operative, and in EON's CASINO ROYALE, it was the Algerian boyfriend.

Indeed!

Richard, I don't know where you got the idea that the novel version of Vesper was behaving out of some kind of ideology. It seems one of your key issues with the CR movie is that it DOES echo the novel in this regard! She was locked into blackmail, and was under Quantum's thumb from her first scene. For me, this adds a real frisson to her actions on a second viewing.

Purvis and Wade are barely competent.

Neal Purvis, Robert Wade, Paul Haggis

Please, no! Not again!

Okay, we get it, you dislike P&W. Honestly, you don't need to quote everyone who wants them back just to repeatedly state that dislike!

Calling them barely competent is a ridiculous statement, though, if you know anything about screenwriting. Let Him Have It is an excellent and subtle script by any standard, and saying Haggis is is responsible for anything worthwhile in the last two movies is based on bias rather than any kind of clear understanding of who wrote what. (Also, Haggis had MORE time on QoS?! Not according to the sprint-to-the-strike reports. Moreover, aren't you discounting Zetumer's uncredited rewrites once the strike was done?)

The guys may not be perfect - who is?! - but they have a remarkable creative facility. They know the Fleming style, and the Bond movie style, and there's a wealth of good concepts in their movies. They acknowledge themselves that they get two caught up in backstory, but therein lies, at least, a quest for substance.

As forever needs to be reminded, you don't get to know big-budget movie writers by looking at the movies. There are entirely too many cooks, and the screenwriter is held in too low regard, to get a strong idea of what was intended. Bond being a captured agent, tortured and traded, is a cracking notion - but you think they wanted it executed the way it was? No change in physique, fake beard, and back to normal in ten minutes after washing up on a badly-faked Hong Kong dock?

It's fine to dislike the movies, but you only get to hold the screenwriters accountable if you REALLY know what you're talking about. The process is way too complicated to target those responsible that easily.

[Innukchuck]

Casino Royale was one of the best Bond movie, in my humble opinion, and i want that team back (Haggins, Purvis and Wade). Maybe Josh Zetumer can come back as well.