322 replies to this topic

[spynovelfan]

I can understand why people wouldn't enjoy it, and agree it has some flaws. I'm surprised that anyone would find it the worst in the series, but then, as has been pointed out, Darren does think the best film in the series is Never Say Never Again.

I suspect that once the dust has settled, the people who proclaim it the best film ever made in the history of the universe will decide that it's more like the fourth best Bond film, and that most of those who think that it should be tried for war crimes at the Hague will reluctantly admit that it's nowhere near as bad as A View To A Kill.

First reviews tend to be hyberbolic. 'The camera-work was shaky and annoying at times' are words rarely typed after a first viewing, and it's more likely that a review will remark that the entire film was clearly shot by a team of spastic heroin addicted puppies on cold turkey being thrown from a moving train while shaking fleas from their backs.

The fact that the title of this review doesn't say it's the worst Bond film, but the worst Bond film in history might point to that, as well. And the same applies to positive reviews.

[MarkA]

Once people realise that QoS is a film about a man that is learning and has learnt how to be the standard character, only then will people apprecoate QoS for what it is. The sad thing is, it will eventually be recognised but not for a good few years yet. I don' want to insult anyone but please, lets apply some foward thinking here. Anyone expecting the norm or usual standard Bond stuff, having been made aware that this is also an origin moie is, fair to say an idiot.

But this is my main gripe. I do get the film, I understand the film, and in fact the plot is quite simple. But I hate the way it is done. I hate the direction. I find it pretentious. I hate the way the action is shot; I find it needlessly confusing all these are valid criticisms. The way people who love it have valid reasons. But what is really getting me is the people that do seem to like it make the assumption that us who don't are stupid, old fashioned, don't have an understanding of film. Believe me I get it. I just don't like it. That doesn't make me stupid it is an opinion. I love film…anything. Colour, black and white, blockbuster, art house, foreign language, silent, avant-garde, B movie. You name it I have passions in nearly every genre, era and style. I just didn't like QOS; my reasons are as valid as you that love it. But don't insult me by saying I didn't understand.

Edited by MarkA, 15 November 2008 - 11:02 PM.

[Bonita]

Please don't tell me I've miss-remembered the line! I haven't seen the film in maybe 20 years. Oh, the possibly humiliation...

"Your brother's dead. Keep dancing."

Big Tam does deserves some kind of award for not cracking up on camera when he said it. In the days of my youth, I saw that film, what? five times in theaters! The laugh every time from the audience was something to hear. Ah, that suave, cool agent who knows how to let them down easy, generally punctuated by the sound of some Bond fan slapping his forehead. I just wonder what Kershner's reaction was when he heard that laugh at a preview screening? He must have thought, hmmm, I just didn't expect that reaction.

For a few years, I like to punctuate any delivery of bad news with that line.

"Honey, I broke the clock. Keep dancing."
"I wrecked your car. Keep dancing."
"Uh, I think we're all out of toilet paper. Keep dancing."

I don't love NSNA, but I do have a strong fondness for many Bonds which can (and rightfully are) skewered by others. Taste and logic are not comfortable bedfellows, and Loomis, I will defend your right to like NSNA if not to the death, at least to the end of this sentence!

[Loomis]

"Your brother's dead. Keep dancing."

Ah, of course! DOH! Cheers for clearing that up, Bonita.

The irony of it being a NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN reference, though!

[spynovelfan]

For a few years, I like to punctuate any delivery of bad news with that line.

Just out of interest, do you feel that all your posts here are you delivering bad news?

[Loomis]

First reviews tend to be hyberbolic. 'The camera-work was shaky and annoying at times' are words rarely typed after a first viewing, and it's more likely that a review will remark that the entire film was clearly shot by a team of spastic heroin addicted puppies on cold turkey being thrown from a moving train while shaking fleas from their backs.

The fact that the title of this review doesn't say it's the worst Bond film, but the worst Bond film in history might point to that, as well. And the same applies to positive reviews.

Indeed, first reviews do tend to be hyperbolic. Mine of QUANTUM OF SOLACE certainly was. I was geeking out and singing its praises like Harry Knowles on Ecstasy at a Tarantino convention. It may be that I'll look back on my QoS review with a, well, a quantum of embarrassment in years (days?) to come.

Still, that's fandom for ya. We've all eagerly anticipated QoS for many months and have shared our hopes for it and our thoughts on how it seemed to be shaping up. So it's natural that we want it to be either OMG THE BEST BOND FILM EVER!!!!!!!!, or, if we don't happen to enjoy it, QUANTUM OF SUCKAGE™ - THE BROCCOLI'S NEED TO STOP BOND NOW!!!!!!!!. It must be a total triumph, or, failing that, an utter disaster, for should the film fall somewhere in the middle ground between those two extremes it just wouldn't be, well, "sexy" enough for us fans, if you see what I mean. After all this extreme anticipation, only an extreme reaction (be it positive or negative) will be a fitting conclusion.

[MarkA]

Still, that's fandom for ya. We've all eagerly anticipated QoS for many months and have shared our hopes for it and our thoughts on how it seemed to be shaping up. So it's natural that we want it to be either OMG THE BEST BOND FILM EVER!!!!!!!!, or, if we don't happen to enjoy it, QUANTUM OF SUCKAGE™ - THE BROCCOLI'S NEED TO STOP BOND NOW!!!!!!!!. It must be a total triumph, or, failing that, an utter disaster, for should the film fall somewhere in the middle ground between those two extremes it just wouldn't be, well, "sexy" enough for us fans, if you see what I mean. After all this extreme anticipation, only an extreme reaction (be it positive or negative) will be a fitting conclusion.

That is one of the most intelligent things written in this thread. Really

[Bonita]

For a few years, I like to punctuate any delivery of bad news with that line.

Just out of interest, do you feel that all your posts here are you delivering bad news?

No. Although I rarely post and generally only do so under duress (i.e. insomnia) or the giddy excitement of seeing a new Bond film. But the line just stuck with me and its meaning somehow transformed into a conspiratorial sign off.

And Loomis, I thought you were asking in order to bust my chops for getting it wrong!

keep dancing...

[stromberg]

Indeed, first reviews do tend to be hyperbolic. Mine of QUANTUM OF SOLACE certainly was. I was geeking out and singing its praises like Harry Knowles on Ecstasy at a Tarantino convention. It may be that I'll look back on my QoS review with a, well, a quantum of embarrassment in years (days?) to come.

And to make things worse, it gets bumped up in this forum every few months.

Ask zencat about it

[Daddy Bond]

Still, that's fandom for ya. We've all eagerly anticipated QoS for many months and have shared our hopes for it and our thoughts on how it seemed to be shaping up. So it's natural that we want it to be either OMG THE BEST BOND FILM EVER!!!!!!!!, or, if we don't happen to enjoy it, QUANTUM OF SUCKAGE™ - THE BROCCOLI'S NEED TO STOP BOND NOW!!!!!!!!. It must be a total triumph, or, failing that, an utter disaster, for should the film fall somewhere in the middle ground between those two extremes it just wouldn't be, well, "sexy" enough for us fans, if you see what I mean. After all this extreme anticipation, only an extreme reaction (be it positive or negative) will be a fitting conclusion.

That is one of the most intelligent things written in this thread. Really

Indeed, but I don't think I'll ever lower QoS out of my top 5 - ever - unless future Bond movies push it out of its place. Right now, it's solidly my third favorite Bond. I thought it was great. I actually enjoyed it a bit more than CR on first viewing, but ranked it second to CR because it is a follow up to CR.

Still, isn't Craig just perfect as Bond? How could I ever doubt?

[spynovelfan]

Indeed, first reviews do tend to be hyperbolic. Mine of QUANTUM OF SOLACE certainly was. I was geeking out and singing its praises like Harry Knowles on Ecstasy at a Tarantino convention. It may be that I'll look back on my QoS review with a, well, a quantum of embarrassment in years (days?) to come.

I can't figure out your taste in films at all, Loomis, and gave up trying long ago.

[double o ego]

Once people realise that QoS is a film about a man that is learning and has learnt how to be the standard character, only then will people apprecoate QoS for what it is. The sad thing is, it will eventually be recognised but not for a good few years yet. I don' want to insult anyone but please, lets apply some foward thinking here. Anyone expecting the norm or usual standard Bond stuff, having been made aware that this is also an origin moie is, fair to say an idiot.

But this is my main gripe. I do get the film, I understand the film, and in fact the plot is quite simple. But I hate the way it is done. I hate the direction. I find it pretentious. I hate the way the action is shot; I find it needlessly confusing all these are valid criticisms. The way people who love it have valid reasons. But what is really getting me is the people that do seem to like it make the assumption that us who don't are stupid, old fashioned, don't have an understanding of film. Believe me I get it. I just don't like it. That doesn't make me stupid it is an opinion. I love film…anything. Colour, black and white, blockbuster, art house, foreign language, silent, avant-garde, B movie. You name it I have passions in nearly every genre, era and style. I just didn't like QOS; my reasons are as valid as you that love it. But don't insult me by saying I didn't understand.

You are clearly an exception though. You've highlighted that you understood it but your issues with the film are on a technical and creative basis as opposed to the actual film's content, which most people who dislike the film have issues with. That being said, your reasons for not liking the movie can't be challenged as such because it comes down to your taste of the moie-making process. So, I see where you're coming from. I love QoS but I too have some issues with the film making process. Could it have been better directed? Absoloutly. There are a few scenes that are a little confusing to make out, particularly the Mitchel shootings at the safe house, the fast cut editing and maybe some unecessary scenes, such as the boat chase. However, for me, when looking at the bigger picture they're just mino inconveniences that prevent me rating QoS a perfect 10 as opposed to a 9.

Additionally, I don't understand why TWINE gets so much hate. Sure, it's go some absurd moments but tbh, I think TWINE is probably Brosnan's best outing as Bond and also, most Bond movies have flaws in them, especially when it comes to flaws found in QoS but they're not nearly as detrimental to the overall opinion that give it a low score.

[Harry Fawkes]

QOS IS FANTASTIC!
DANIEL CRAIG IS FANTASTIC!

The best Bond film in a very very long time. I liked it better than CR and that's a fact!

[Kristian]

Okay then explain how Bond knew that Camille was to be killed when Camille who was about 30-40 feet closer to Bond couldn´t figure it out and that´s even after she knew what was in the Case.

I love it when people try to explain the inexpicible

Oh. My. God. You are kidding, right?

I love it when people need an IQ transfusion to understand a film. Or a PowerPoint Presentation that explains every. single. plot. point. (to include how a SPY would recognize an ASSASSIN'S MATERIAL. Hmmmmmmm.....)

[Harry Fawkes]

Okay then explain how Bond knew that Camille was to be killed when Camille who was about 30-40 feet closer to Bond couldn´t figure it out and that´s even after she knew what was in the Case.

I love it when people try to explain the inexpicible

Oh. My. God. You are kidding, right?

I love it when people need an IQ transfusion to understand a film. Or a PowerPoint Presentation that explains every. single. plot. point. (to include how a SPY would recognize an ASSASSIN'S MATERIAL. Hmmmmmmm.....)

Well said I must say!

[Tarl_Cabot]

Darren, you have some e'splaining to do!

[Daddy Bond]

The movie is misunderstood by most people, I think QOS will stand the test of time very well and someday will be viewed as one of the best Bond films.

Yeah that´s right I didn´t like the film because I misunderstood it,what a crock of you know what.Okay can you explain to me how Bond knew that Camille was to be killed.If I remember correctly he had his sat on a motorbike the whole time,Has he suddenly developed Superman´s hearing.At first I thought he planted a listening device and then realised on second viewing that he didn´t so please explain me that,man I´d better stop or I´ll drive myself insane thinking about this totally retarted movie

You're not serious right? He bled the one baddie out on the balcony (cut and sliced him in the right spots too), went downstairs and got the case meant for the baddie, from the desk clerk, then went outside, at which time Camille recognized him I guess because he was carrying the case. Bond gets in, opens the case, and sees the gun and picture of her, and knowing the guy he just killed might of been a hitman, figured his target was the pictured person. (Camille). Oh and he saves her because he figures if Greene wants her dead, she must be worth saving for intel.

Yeah not only did he knock the man of the Bike but in doing so he sent the bike into the air....So now not only had Bond got Superman´s hearing but also his strenght...Jaysus I´d better stop....The worst Bond movie in the Franchise,and it deffo has the worst Gunbarrel......Bring On Bourne 4

That bike appeared to have the throttle on the left (some do still), which i think is what Bond grabbed to cause the wheelie. Either that or he released the clutch. It also appeared to be a Trials type bike, which wheelies very easily.

Okay then explain how Bond knew that Camille was to be killed when Camille who was about 30-40 feet closer to Bond couldn´t figure it out and that´s even after she knew what was in the Case.

Actually Bond does neither.He Hits the Handlebars with an uppercut or something forcing the bike to go upward if memory serves me right.

I love it when people try to explain the inexpicible

Ok, let me explain. A hit man was sent to kill Camille. He was waiting at a hotel (the guy who Bond killed - who looked a bit like Bond - the inattentive lady at the front desk didn't catch on - or hadn't seen the guy who was staying in the hotel room and gives Bond the man's case) (at this point, Bond doesn't know what's in the case). Camille was told by those who set her up for the hit to go pick up a guy (a geologist I believe) at the hotel who is carrying a silver briefcase (so the guy with the silver brief case can kill her - but she doesn't know that). She sees the guy (not knowing it's Bond - but just thinking it's the scientist whom she is supposed to pick up) and tells him to get in the car (not knowing she has been targeted for assassination), Bond opens the briefcase, looks at the photo and the gun and figures out that she was the target of a hit. She realizes almost as fast as Bond that this is so, but doesn't know that Bond is NOT the hit man, pulls her gun and tries to shoot Bond - whom she thinks is the hitman (but is really Bond).

Why is this such a difficult point for people to grasp???

[draxingtonstanley]

Wow.

I feel i"ve just walked in off the street into the LTK bar brawl..

Sorry you didn't like it DiLibrasnov.

I did. I'm also quite fond of NSNA though (ducks as someone comes at me with a stuffed marlin).

[DLibrasnow]

Indeed, first reviews do tend to be hyperbolic. Mine of QUANTUM OF SOLACE certainly was. I was geeking out and singing its praises like Harry Knowles on Ecstasy at a Tarantino convention. It may be that I'll look back on my QoS review with a, well, a quantum of embarrassment in years (days?) to come.

And to make things worse, it gets bumped up in this forum every few months.

Ask zencat about it

I was thinking that to when I read Loomis' post.

Because according to that post by zencat in 2002, Die Another Day is the Best Bond film.

[Kristian]

She realizes almost as fast as Bond that this is so, but doesn't know that Bond is NOT the hit man, pulls her gun and tries to shoot Bond - whom she thinks is the hitman (but is really Bond).

Why is this such a difficult point for people to grasp???

Because they're stupid.

Meow.

Edited by Kristian, 16 November 2008 - 12:14 AM.

[Bonita]

[/quote]

Ok, let me explain. A hit man was sent to kill Camille. He was waiting at a hotel (the guy who Bond killed - who looked a bit like Bond - the inattentive lady at the front desk didn't catch on - or hadn't seen the guy who was staying in the hotel room and gives Bond the man's case) (at this point, Bond doesn't know what's in the case). Camille was told by those who set her up for the hit to go pick up a guy (a geologist I believe) at the hotel who is carrying a silver briefcase (so the guy with the silver brief case can kill her - but she doesn't know that). She sees the guy (not knowing it's Bond - but just thinking it's the scientist whom she is supposed to pick up) and tells him to get in the car (not knowing she has been targeted for assassination), Bond opens the briefcase, looks at the photo and the gun and figures out that she was the target of a hit. She realizes almost as fast as Bond that this is so, but doesn't know that Bond is NOT the hit man, pulls her gun and tries to shoot Bond - whom she thinks is the hitman (but is really Bond).

Why is this such a difficult point for people to grasp???
[/quote]

Close, but Camille hasn't been sent to pick up the geologist / hitman. She is trying to find out for the Bolivian Secret Service what Greene wants with the land. What is beneath the desert? She later claims to Greene the geologist contacted her and she went to stop a leak. Obviously, Greene suspected her treachery, had the man contact her claiming to be a geologist and then when she bit, the assassin was to kill her.

None of this is terribly important, but it is clearer to me than, say, who Morton Slumber and Shady Tree are working for in Diamonds Are Forever. I mean, Slumber knows the money is fake and must know that Wint and Kidd put Bond's body in the incinerator. But none of the key members of the pipeline are supposed to know that Wint and Kidd exist. How do they know Bond is in the incinerator? Anonymous tip? Shady Tree clearly doesn't know who Wint and Kidd are. It makes no sense.

And do you dislike all Bond films with giant gaps in logic? Can you tell me one that does actually make perfect sense?

But, again, I don't think anyone is hating QoS just to be contrary. Obviously, the film doesn't appeal to some people. I love it, but I respect that you just didn't buy the scenes you mention. All films work off a suspension of disbelief. Logic has very little to do with suspension of disbelief. It has much more to do with whether a story appeals to you. If you stop caring about the story, it's all going to look wrong. No movies really make sense. There is very little in QoS or any other spy film that follows any real external logic. All Bond films are fantasies, and if QoS is not a flavor of Bond fantasy you can accept, you just are not going to like the movie.

Keep dancing...

[zencat]

I just called the theater where Dlibs saw QOS and they confessed they accidentally played Madagascar 2.

[Tarl_Cabot]

aha!

[Daddy Bond]

Yes, she did intend to pick up a geologist, remember how she was looking for a report that turned out to be blank. Greene, however, intended for her to pick up a hitman instead. Thank you for fine tuning that, however.

[manfromjapan]

Libra..I expected better from you. It's fine that you didn't enjoy the film. But all this 'don't waste your money' nonsense is just adding to the negativity. Are we not supposed to be Bond supporters? Are you not a journalist? We should try to be balanced when we write about Bond (I know it's hard). What one senses from your mini-review, and the over-emotional (tabloid) headline is that you just wanted people to read your post. I hate it when 'fans' want to give the series a kicking. Why? Where does that instinct come from? Don't we post here because we LOVE the Bond universe. When I am disappointed with a film or book, I appreciate that it is just my opinion. I might share my opinion but I don't actively try to stop people from seeing or reading it. And you must already be aware that many fans have enjoyed the film. You are just adding fuel to a fire. Very childish.

[DrNoNo]

It's certainly not that bad.

It is definitely not that bad, speaking as someone who saw and liked (but didn't quite love) QoS. I find Dlibrasnow's review rather ridiculous, actually. I'd take QoS over MR, DAF, DAD, AVTAK, TMWTGG, LALD, OP, YOLT anyday. I just love that some critics immediately hate QoS just because it's not as good as CR.

It is probably better than MR, DAF, AVTAK, TMWTGG, etc.

Definitely not as good as YOLT.

Probably on par with LALD.

QOS is not a bad movie.

It's just not a really good movie

It's a mid-level action flick plain and simple.

[Goldbadge]

Yeah not only did he knock the man of the Bike but in doing so he sent the bike into the air....So now not only had Bond got Superman´s hearing but also his strenght...Jaysus I´d better stop....The worst Bond movie in the Franchise,and it deffo has the worst Gunbarrel......Bring On Bourne 4

That bike appeared to have the throttle on the left (some do still), which i think is what Bond grabbed to cause the wheelie. Either that or he released the clutch. It also appeared to be a Trials type bike, which wheelies very easily.

Okay then explain how Bond knew that Camille was to be killed when Camille who was about 30-40 feet closer to Bond couldn´t figure it out and that´s even after she knew what was in the Case.

Actually Bond does neither.He Hits the Handlebars with an uppercut or something forcing the bike to go upward if memory serves me right.

I love it when people try to explain the inexpicible

Camille knew she was up for a killing by Greene or the General, but she didn't care because she wanted to kill him herself.

Whatever Bond did with the handlebars was acceptable or plausible within the confines of the movie. Try not to over analyze too much, and maybe go see the movie again and pay more attention to the plot and script. I gather from your dislike of the film, that you may have being seeing thru a bit of red fog, and that's totally fine. I just think you missed a few things. I liked the film mostly, and I missed some things just because it happens so fast.

[Bonita]

Libra..I expected better from you. It's fine that you didn't enjoy the film. But all this 'don't waste your money' nonsense is just adding to the negativity. Are we not supposed to be Bond supporters? Are you not a journalist? We should try to be balanced when we write about Bond (I know it's hard). What one senses from your mini-review, and the over-emotional (tabloid) headline is that you just wanted people to read your post. I hate it when 'fans' want to give the series a kicking. Why? Where does that instinct come from? Don't we post here because we LOVE the Bond universe. When I am disappointed with a film or book, I appreciate that it is just my opinion. I might share my opinion but I don't actively try to stop people from seeing or reading it. And you must already be aware that many fans have enjoyed the film. You are just adding fuel to a fire. Very childish.

manfromjapan:

I must stand up for Libra here! He is under no obligation to like or embrace QoS, and has every right to let us know that it is NOT UP TO the standards set by Never Say Never Again. There is no 80s big hair going on. This black Felix Leiter actually has dialogue. No henchman is given a cigarette case and told he will explode if he moves. No action figures are used to represent Bond on some flying platform (Thunderbirds are GO!). No urine is tossed in anyone's face. The women are younger than my grandmother. And Mr. Bean does not make a cameo. This film is VERY different. And if you like the former, you may not like the latter (I've been informed that it is possible to like both, something that I will have to learn to accept). So let Libra sing his song and sing it proud. This ain't his flavor of Bond. Respect that. Let him own it. He can march in front of theaters proclaiming, Burn baby, burn! as he tosses fuel on the fire.

I loved QoS. But no matter how many times I watched NSNA, I could not get over the idea that it just wasn't a very good film...to me. And if they were coming out with a big theatrical re-issue next week, I'd be telling the faithful to see QoS instead. But both films are, in some respect, Bond films. Just very different Bond films. So Libra, you have my support in concept if not in conceit!

NSNA il e mort! Viva la NSNA!

keep dancing....

[Daddy Bond]

For me, watching NSNA is like minor surgery. Something that has to happen every once in a while, but I sure am glad when it's over.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

Still, that's fandom for ya. We've all eagerly anticipated QoS for many months and have shared our hopes for it and our thoughts on how it seemed to be shaping up. So it's natural that we want it to be either OMG THE BEST BOND FILM EVER!!!!!!!!, or, if we don't happen to enjoy it, QUANTUM OF SUCKAGE™ - THE BROCCOLI'S NEED TO STOP BOND NOW!!!!!!!!. It must be a total triumph, or, failing that, an utter disaster, for should the film fall somewhere in the middle ground between those two extremes it just wouldn't be, well, "sexy" enough for us fans, if you see what I mean. After all this extreme anticipation, only an extreme reaction (be it positive or negative) will be a fitting conclusion.

That is one of the most intelligent things written in this thread. Really

I disagree, being a harcore (Bond) fan doesn't mean that all your opinions have to be black or white.