31 replies to this topic

[Fozzco]

Can anyone tell me how Mr White escaped from the safe house in Sienna - he'd got a bullet in his leg - had been roughed up...and M was still there after Bond had started his pursuit.
Also would have liked to have seen him again near the end of the film.

[Vauxhall]

Difficult to know for certain but my assumption is that Mitchell alerted Quantum as to where they would be holding White, and they sent reinforcements to extract him. There was some sort of line about Mitchell killing the guard on the stairs into the safehouse I think. I guess M was rushed out by the remaining faithful MI6 staff.

White was scheduled to appear again at the end of the movie, but that scene was cut.

[spynovelfan]

The title of this thread is a spoiler! It reveals that White escaped.

[TQB]

its in the spoiler section

[Vauxhall]

Yes, but spynovelfan's point is that anyone can view the thread title irrespective of whether it is in the spoiler section.

[stromberg]

Title edited.

[Fozzco]

Sorry about that chaps!

[stromberg]

Sorry about that chaps!

Happens. Be careful everyone. It's a long wait for the Americans and Aussies and a few others.

Besides, for people who haven't seen the movie, 'White's escape' could mean a lot:
- escape after Bond shot his knee in CR (and is captured later before the interrogation scene)
- escape after said interrogation scene
- escape after the Tosca scene
- escape at the end of the movie for a possible return

[Captain Tightpants]

It strikes me as being like Harvey Dent escaping from Gotham Hospital before the Joker blows it apart: you don't actually see him get out, but then, you don't need to. It's enough to know that he escapes.

[Alfred Blacking]

Can anyone tell me how Mr White escaped from the safe house in Sienna - he'd got a bullet in his leg - had been roughed up...and M was still there after Bond had started his pursuit.
Also would have liked to have seen him again near the end of the film.

Well, I was totally confused when I saw him at the opera because I was sure that I'd seen him shot dead and on the floor in the safehouse.

[MkB]

Can anyone tell me how Mr White escaped from the safe house in Sienna - he'd got a bullet in his leg - had been roughed up...and M was still there after Bond had started his pursuit.
Also would have liked to have seen him again near the end of the film.

Well, I was totally confused when I saw him at the opera because I was sure that I'd seen him shot dead and on the floor in the safehouse.

Same, I thought the puddle of blood on the floor in the safe house was Mr White's, and thought his body had been taken away by the Quantum men. It all hapened so quickly, I didn't saw what exactly happened. I still wonder what exactly happens to M during this shooting.
Besides, he must be bloody important to Quantum: they help him escape, but they finish off Greene...

[stamper]

They cut out the scene where Bond's torture him. My guess is he is the head of Quantum, (he does say "MY organisation" at the beginning of CR) and was taken away by his men.

I have no clue why in that scene, they didn't bring back Tobias Menzies as Villiers to play the traitor. That would have worked much better. By the time M saluted the guy (whoever he is, not seen in CR, another sign of DISRESPECT), for the 7th time telling his name in BIG BROAD LETTERS, anyone could guess he was a traitor.

How, can anyone explain how M's office can change in one day too (it's supposed to happen a short while after CR).

[DamnCoffee]

How, can anyone explain how M's office can change in one day too (it's supposed to happen a short while after CR).

If you watch the new Casino Royale Deluxe Edition, it shows you. The Scene with M on the phone to Bond at the end of the movie, is re-editied. When she says "James, did you ever ask yourself why you weren't killed that night?" a man is walking behind her, along the screen, with a big metal board.

[CaptainPower]

I have no clue why in that scene, they didn't bring back Tobias Menzies as Villiers to play the traitor. That would have worked much better.

..because Daniel Craig could break him in half with a handshake I guess they needed someone who you could believe could out-run and put up a bit of a struggle for Bond. Although that Villiers was quite a lanky bugger, a couple of big steps and he'd be out of the country. Campbell says on the CR commentary that he believes Villers hasn't been at MI6 that long, and he's still struggling to get to grips with everything, so I suppose it wouldn't be much of a shock for him to turn around and be a traitor, as opposed to someone who has been there for years and who M has bought several Christmas presents for, including a lovely ashtray (even though he doesn't smoke )

Edited by CaptainPower, 03 November 2008 - 10:21 PM.

[sorking]

They cut out the scene where Bond's torture him.

Is that a 'fact'?

How, can anyone explain how M's office can change in one day too (it's supposed to happen a short while after CR).

You move offices from one side of the building to the other, refurbished side. Happened to a friend of mine just the other week.

[Captain Tightpants]

How, can anyone explain how M's office can change in one day too (it's supposed to happen a short while after CR).

If you watch the new Casino Royale Deluxe Edition, it shows you. The Scene with M on the phone to Bond at the end of the movie, is re-editied. When she says "James, did you ever ask yourself why you weren't killed that night?" a man is walking behind her, along the screen, with a big metal board.

And going by the trailers, the new MI6 office looks like the room in CASINO ROYALE where the medical guys help Bond through his poisoning. For all we know, they're just downstairs.

[Harmsway]

They cut out the scene where Bond's torture him.

According to Forster, no such scene exists.

How, can anyone explain how M's office can change in one day too (it's supposed to happen a short while after CR).

Perhaps they were developing new, upgraded offices for M during the entirety of CASINO ROYALE, and she moved in sometime between the time Bond hung up on M in Venice and the time he picks up Mr. White.

[MkB]

How, can anyone explain how M's office can change in one day too (it's supposed to happen a short while after CR).

No, I think the timeline is different. QoS picks up just after the end of CR, but there has to be a wide gap of time inside CR, before the last scene of Bond shooting White. Otherwise, in some days / weeks, Mathis wouldn't have had the time to be cleared, released, given an indecent lot of money as an excuse, and buy a nice house in Talamone. All this takes time, a time during which Bond and MI6 were certainly investigating to get hold of White.

[Harmsway]

No, I think the timeline is different. QoS picks up just after the end of CR, but there has to be a wide gap of time inside CR, before the last scene of Bond shooting White. Otherwise, in some days / weeks, Mathis wouldn't have had the time to be cleared, released, given an indecent lot of money as an excuse, and buy a nice house in Talamone. All this takes time, a time during which Bond and MI6 were certainly investigating to get hold of White.

Yup.

[sorking]

No, I think the timeline is different. QoS picks up just after the end of CR, but there has to be a wide gap of time inside CR, before the last scene of Bond shooting White. Otherwise, in some days / weeks, Mathis wouldn't have had the time to be cleared, released, given an indecent lot of money as an excuse, and buy a nice house in Talamone. All this takes time, a time during which Bond and MI6 were certainly investigating to get hold of White.

Yup.

While I'm happy to take this as the reason, I don't think this was intended at the end of CR. The choice to give Bond White's phone number, I thought, was a very deliberate echo of the way Bond located Dimitrios - he could locate the guy in the same way, which was a fairly quick job.

I'm happy to believe it was a matter of days rather than hours to get to him at home (I like to think Bond attended a funeral for Vesper first), but any more than that is something we only add in retrospect. That it CAN be added in retrospect is enough, though. Whatever was intended during the making of one film can always be...tweaked.

Also: It's a movie.

[kneelbeforezod]

They cut out the scene where Bond's torture him.

According to Forster, no such scene exists.

Well, it exists if you need to constantly suggest in your posts that QOS has been cut to ribbons

[DamnCoffee]

I guess M was rushed out by the remaining faithful MI6 staff.

Actually, after Slate kills the other guy, and attacks Bond. We see 007 look to see if M is ok, as he is scanning to room it cuts to a long shot of M running up some steps to safety.

[Vauxhall]

I guess M was rushed out by the remaining faithful MI6 staff.

Actually, after Slate kills the other guy, and attacks Bond. We see 007 look to see if M is ok, as he is scanning to room it cuts to a long shot of M running up some steps to safety.

Yeah, I too only noticed that on the second viewing. By the way, it's Mitchell not Slate.

[MkB]

No, I think the timeline is different. QoS picks up just after the end of CR, but there has to be a wide gap of time inside CR, before the last scene of Bond shooting White. Otherwise, in some days / weeks, Mathis wouldn't have had the time to be cleared, released, given an indecent lot of money as an excuse, and buy a nice house in Talamone. All this takes time, a time during which Bond and MI6 were certainly investigating to get hold of White.

Yup.

While I'm happy to take this as the reason, I don't think this was intended at the end of CR. The choice to give Bond White's phone number, I thought, was a very deliberate echo of the way Bond located Dimitrios - he could locate the guy in the same way, which was a fairly quick job.

I'm happy to believe it was a matter of days rather than hours to get to him at home (I like to think Bond attended a funeral for Vesper first), but any more than that is something we only add in retrospect. That it CAN be added in retrospect is enough, though. Whatever was intended during the making of one film can always be...tweaked.

Also: It's a movie.

Yeah, that too...

[sorking]

I guess M was rushed out by the remaining faithful MI6 staff.

Actually, after Slate kills the other guy, and attacks Bond. We see 007 look to see if M is ok, as he is scanning to room it cuts to a long shot of M running up some steps to safety.

Yeah, I too only noticed that on the second viewing. By the way, it's Mitchell not Slate.

The dialogue later clarifies this much, at least. M fled after the failed attempt on her life. As she ran she passed the MI6 guard on duty - she didn't notice, but he, too, was dead, killed by Mitchell when he leaves the room to 'check the perimeter' while Bond and M discuss Yusef.

With the safehouse abandoned, at least for a short while, White must have hobbled his way out of the building, contacted Quantum and been whisked away.

No, I think the timeline is different. QoS picks up just after the end of CR, but there has to be a wide gap of time inside CR, before the last scene of Bond shooting White. Otherwise, in some days / weeks, Mathis wouldn't have had the time to be cleared, released, given an indecent lot of money as an excuse, and buy a nice house in Talamone. All this takes time, a time during which Bond and MI6 were certainly investigating to get hold of White.

Yup.

While I'm happy to take this as the reason, I don't think this was intended at the end of CR. The choice to give Bond White's phone number, I thought, was a very deliberate echo of the way Bond located Dimitrios - he could locate the guy in the same way, which was a fairly quick job.

I'm happy to believe it was a matter of days rather than hours to get to him at home (I like to think Bond attended a funeral for Vesper first), but any more than that is something we only add in retrospect. That it CAN be added in retrospect is enough, though. Whatever was intended during the making of one film can always be...tweaked.

Also: It's a movie.

Yeah, that too...

A key problem with the idea that there's a wide gap of time in those last moments of CR is the 'not sleeping' theme in QoS. The heavy implication is that not only has he not slept in this film, he hasn't actually slept since the death of Vesper. I can believe this lasts a week; I can't believe it's months.

Let's face it, the Mathis thing is a vague mistake of expediency - they wanted to use the character in very specific ways (as an ageing version of Bond, retired from MI6; used as a trusted ally and, ultimately, a human cost of the mission). To do that, they needed to get past the issues he was left with at the end of CR quite quickly. So they chose to suggest it had mostly been dealt with off-screen. I can live with that.

So, yeah - still only a movie.

[DamnCoffee]

I guess M was rushed out by the remaining faithful MI6 staff.

Actually, after Slate kills the other guy, and attacks Bond. We see 007 look to see if M is ok, as he is scanning to room it cuts to a long shot of M running up some steps to safety.

Yeah, I too only noticed that on the second viewing. By the way, it's Mitchell not Slate.

Slight Miscalculation.

[MkB]

A key problem with the idea that there's a wide gap of time in those last moments of CR is the 'not sleeping' theme in QoS. The heavy implication is that not only has he not slept in this film, he hasn't actually slept since the death of Vesper. I can believe this lasts a week; I can't believe it's months.

Well, I've been an insomniac for about 15 years now, and I survived. Some would say "with damages", but I survived!

Seriously, you're right, it works better when considered in total continuity. As someone said here or on another thread, when you watch CR everything is in 2006, when you watch QoS everything is in 2008. I think it's the best way of seeing things. Poetic licence!

A personal side note: if Bond's invitation to Greene's party is dated 23 August 2008, it means that the events of QoS took place (yeaaaahhhhhh I know, it's a movie, but still... ) at the time of my birthday. Which I find rather cool, but I suspect nobody will really care...

[stromberg]

No, I think the timeline is different. QoS picks up just after the end of CR, but there has to be a wide gap of time inside CR, before the last scene of Bond shooting White. Otherwise, in some days / weeks, Mathis wouldn't have had the time to be cleared, released, given an indecent lot of money as an excuse, and buy a nice house in Talamone. All this takes time, a time during which Bond and MI6 were certainly investigating to get hold of White.

Not quite. Remember, Mathis gets zapped even before the money is (supposedly) transfered. And after that, there's certainly more time for Bond to recover and sail around the Mediterranen with Vesper. Doesn't M even ask why the money hasn't been transfered after three months (or so)? Time enough to grill Mathis and eventually find out that he's innocent (even though Bond is still convinced that he's guilty at the end of CR). Further investigations during an undefined timespan (could be days, weeks or months) follow with the result that Mathis is finally cleared and to be compensated, and that the only way to find out more is to capture the mysterious Mr. White.

[MkB]

No, I think the timeline is different. QoS picks up just after the end of CR, but there has to be a wide gap of time inside CR, before the last scene of Bond shooting White. Otherwise, in some days / weeks, Mathis wouldn't have had the time to be cleared, released, given an indecent lot of money as an excuse, and buy a nice house in Talamone. All this takes time, a time during which Bond and MI6 were certainly investigating to get hold of White.

Not quite. Remember, Mathis gets zapped even before the money is (supposedly) transfered. And after that, there's certainly more time for Bond to recover and sail around the Mediterranen with Vesper. Doesn't M even ask why the money hasn't been transfered after three months (or so)? Time enough to grill Mathis and eventually find out that he's innocent (even though Bond is still convinced that he's guilty at the end of CR). Further investigations during an undefined timespan (could be days, weeks or months) follow with the result that Mathis is finally cleared and to be compensated, and that the only way to find out more is to capture the mysterious Mr. White.

Mmmmh not sure... Remember when Bond is talking to M over the phone, after Vesper's death, just before fiddling about with her mobile phone and finding Mr White's number? He tells M that Mathis musn't be cleared yet, and thet Vesper being guilty doesn't mean he's innocent. So Mathis can only be cleared released and compensated after this scene.
But again, the main argument agains that is: it's a movie

[stromberg]

But again, the main argument agains that is: it's a movie

D'oh