69 replies to this topic

[The Cat]

Int takes place on the North Pole and features reindeers.

[marktmurphy]

You can't half be smug sometimes, fella. You've got some great stuff in your collection, but until I know what form it's in etc. I can have no idea whether it's useful to the chaps releasing it or not. Obviously I don't know if what you have is useful to anyone because you never say what it is! Acting superior is easy and rather underhand when you have have more information than anyone else.

I'm not talking about any superior knowledge about what goes on behind the scenes or what I own. I'm talking about the basic principles of any business - things are not given around for goodwill.

Is it a business, though? If someone has copies of the soundtracks lost by Eon or whoever they shouldn't be looking to sell them to their rightful owner as some part of a legitimate business plan.
If I found your wallet in the street would you expect me to ask you for money to return it?

Unless you're saying that the people holding the copies are the legitimate owners? I understand that that can often be the way.

[The Cat]

First of all, EON has very little to do with this aspect of the music. Second of all, in many cases the rights owners have the rights, but have long lost all available material on the project. I myself have provided rare Bond music for various soundtrack releases and television programs. There are rules how these things are arranged, but I won't bore you with it. What's problematic with Bond music is this: 1. They don't know they lost their wallet. 2. They don't even know if they had a wallet or not. 3. They never looked around their own home to see if they have the wallet at home. 4. Even if they wanted the wallet, it would cost them more money to accept it than what's inside.

Edited by The Cat, 19 August 2008 - 05:04 PM.

[marktmurphy]

What's problematic with Bond music is this: 1. They don't know they lost their wallet.

Obviously they, or the people who worked to remaster recent reissues for them, do know otherwise full expanded re-release soundtracks would have been offered for all of them, or none of them.

2. They don't even know if they had a wallet or not.

Because the people who have it choose not to tell them.

3. They never looked around their own home to see if they have the wallet at home.

Possibly that's true. I suppose it depends on how active those guys behind the reissues were.

4. Even if they wanted the wallet, it would cost them more money to accept it than what's inside.

When you say 'cost them more to accept' do you mean the people holding their property would be selling it back to them? That sounds utterly unscrupulous. That's not an issue the wallet-losers have; that's an issue entirely decided by those who choose to fleece the rightful owners, surely?
I have trouble understanding how it could cost them anything otherwise.

Let's just hope that you never want something that other fans keep to themselves. Fleming books, for example? Nice and easy getting those in Hungary is it?

[The Cat]

Let's cut this short, because I see there is one fundamental misunderstanding on your part. You assume that the people who own the rights to the Bond soundtracks are interested in having all the titles to be remastered from scratch, issued in complete forms with deluxe booklets and a special collectible box-set. In reality, they don't give a dang if it's released or not at all. In 2003, they almost did a straight re-issue of all the old soundtracks, because they were completely disinterested if it cost them an additional penny. The difference between these two attitudes (fans and rights holders) is what causes the trouble. Yo can not imagine the total lack of interest from anyone who could get any Bond soundtracks released - and do not mix the rights holder with the people who work on the soundtrack releases, as you did before. Until that kind of attitude is not changed, there is nothing you can do about the situtation except (it seems) keep pointing at the wrong people.

[deth]

I suspect the Cat is quite right... such a shame.

Maybe someday...

[Bonding for Today]

Maybe someday a rich Bond soundtrack collector or a group of collectors will buy the rights to all Bond soundtracks, find every lost master tape and produce some complete scores. ^^
Well, come on, let's have dreams.

[Gri007]

Interestng to note that Licence: 2 Kills is renamed Double O Status. Wouldn't mind hearing the 'alternate version' of You Know My Name

[The Cat]

Interestng to note that Licence: 2 Kills is renamed Double O Status.

You can rename any track into anything else - it's really easy, trust me.

[Satorious]

Surely this bootleg has to be more than a DVD 5.1 rip if it contains alternate versions. Do I recall there was a bootlegged expanded DAD doing the rounds a few years back with alternate versions on it also?

[DamnCoffee]

Here are the versions of You Know My Name I have:

You Know My Name (End Titles)
http://www.4shared.c...nd_Titles_.html

You Know My Name (Single)
http://www.4shared.c...e_Version_.html

You Know My Name (Fast)
http://www.4shared.c...ame__Fast_.html

You Know My Name (Karaoke )
http://www.4shared.c...e_Version_.html

[marktmurphy]

Let's cut this short, because I see there is one fundamental misunderstanding on your part. You assume that the people who own the rights to the Bond soundtracks are interested in having all the titles to be remastered from scratch, issued in complete forms with deluxe booklets and a special collectible box-set.

I didn't say that- I said that the people who released them and worked on them (who were interviewed around the time- I'm sure you know the guy's name but I forget- Lukas Kendall?) are interested in releasing all of them expanded, otherwise they wouldn't have done it the first time. They were working with the rights holders who, whether they care or not, didn't mind releasing what they had.
So obviously someone is interested, otherwise we wouldn't have got what we did.

In reality, they don't give a dang if it's released or not at all. In 2003, they almost did a straight re-issue of all the old soundtracks, because they were completely disinterested if it cost them an additional penny. The difference between these two attitudes (fans and rights holders) is what causes the trouble. Yo can not imagine the total lack of interest from anyone who could get any Bond soundtracks released - and do not mix the rights holder with the people who work on the soundtrack releases, as you did before.

I didn't; hence the phrase "or the people who worked to remaster recent reissues for them". Read the posts. Obviously someone in a position to work with the rights holders were interested in releasing the expanded soundtracks or they wouldn't have been re-released at all.
If anything, this interview seems to show that MGM and EMI were the ones who had the idea to release the expanded soundtracks in the first place:
http://www.shatterha...om/Kendall.html

Until that kind of attitude is not changed, there is nothing you can do about the situtation except (it seems) keep pointing at the wrong people.

Someone had the music, someone was interested in releasing that music on behalf of the rights holders but they didn't have the music. As far as I understand you're right in that there's limited interest in releasing them because, with everything, these things cost money. Do they actually have the masters for stuff like AVTAK and Moonraker? If they had the budget, could they have released the later scores expanded?
So in the meantime bootlegs get passed around by people looking to make a buck out them, and others act all smug on webforums. It's really rather annoying.

[The Cat]

Mark dear... You really don't know what happened, do you? Let me summarize what happened and hopefully this will get the point across. It will be simplified and not address many points, but I hope it clears matters up.

When EMI originally wanted to release the Bond soundtracks in 2003, they wanted a straight re-issue of the original CDs. When Lukas Kendall was brought into the picture, EMI only went with the "expanded" route for the titles Thunderball - The Man With The Golde Gun under the condition it would not cost more than releasing the original ones. They NEVER discussed expanding any other title at all. The tapes of TB-LALD were transferred to hard drives and shipped to America. They remastered these five discs there. When it seemed that it might cost more than initially planned, they pulled the plug and didn't transfer the tapes of TMWTGG. There was even a set of 24-track tapes for TSWLM which wasn't even checked out whether its the original score recording or the soundtrack re-recording. Then Lukas Kendall and his usual team produced each soundtrack in under a week time to make it to the strict deadline. They never ever checked for master tapes of MR, OP and AVTAK. EMI has since moved on, Lukas Kendall has moved on and has far more interesting projects with the Superman box-set or the recent MGM treasure box. While the remastering of the early Bond soundtracks was a really special projects (once again, these were the titles he was interested in doing), I'm surprised he hasn't regretted it for all the half-arsed criticisms and complaints. And this is not even scraping the surface of the legal complications of using anything than the Abbey Road tapes. Even if they were donated a pristine set of master tapes for Moonraker, they couldn't have made it an expanded disc for legal reasons.

I hope that explains the situtation.

Edited by The Cat, 22 August 2008 - 11:03 AM.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Mark dear... You really don't know what happened, do you? Let me summarize what happened and hopefully this will get the point across. It will be simplified and not address many points, but I hope it clears matters up.

When EMI originally wanted to release the Bond soundtracks in 2003, they wanted a straight re-issue of the original CDs. When Lukas Kendall was brought into the picture, EMI only went with the "expanded" route for the titles Thunderball - The Man With The Golde Gun under the condition it would not cost more than releasing the original ones. They NEVER discussed expanding any other title at all. The tapes of TB-LALD were transferred to hard drives and shipped to America. They remastered these five discs there. When it seemed that it might cost more than initially planned, they pulled the plug and didn't transfer the tapes of TMWTGG. There was even a set of 24-track tapes for TSWLM which wasn't even checked out whether its the original score recording or the soundtrack re-recording. Then Lukas Kendall and his usual team produced each soundtrack in under a week time to make it to the strict deadline. They never ever checked for master tapes of MR, OP and AVTAK. EMI has since moved on, Lukas Kendall has moved on and has far more interesting projects with the Superman box-set or the recent MGM treasure box. While the remastering of the early Bond soundtracks was a really special projects (once again, these were the titles he was interested in dong), I'm surprised he hasn't regretted it for all the half-arsed criticisms and complaints. And this is not even scraping the surface of the legal complications of using anything than the Abbey Road tapes. Even if they were donated a pristine set of master tapes for Moonraker, they couldn't have made it an expanded disc for legal reasons.

I hope that explains the situtation.

This is exactly the way I understand it all too.

[The Cat]

This is exactly the way I understand it all too.

Cats think alike.

[Blofeld's Cat]

This is exactly the way I understand it all too.

Cats think alike.

LOL!

I too can't believe Mr. Kendall has not regretted doing half-arsed. Was it a case of a little something extra as opposed to nothing new was better than same ol' same ol'?

[Gav]

Surely this bootleg has to be more than a DVD 5.1 rip if it contains alternate versions. Do I recall there was a bootlegged expanded DAD doing the rounds a few years back with alternate versions on it also?

Yeah, theres a 2CD of DAD with alternates on. Its not complete however - for one, the film version of Icarus isnt on there

The alternates on this set are not DVD rips, they are the alternate mixes prepared for the US cut of the movie which was censored, and needed the music rescoring to fit.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Here are the versions of You Know My Name I have:

You Know My Name (End Titles)
http://www.4shared.c...nd_Titles_.html

You Know My Name (Single)
http://www.4shared.c...e_Version_.html

You Know My Name (Fast)
http://www.4shared.c...ame__Fast_.html

You Know My Name (Karaoke )
http://www.4shared.c...e_Version_.html

Thank you very much (imitating the voice of the dealer when Bond gives him the tip after the poker match)

[Johnny Utah]

Can someone post the music from the aerial fight at the start of Moonraker?I love that cue!

[Bonding for Today]

Here are the versions of You Know My Name I have:

You Know My Name (End Titles)
http://www.4shared.c...nd_Titles_.html

You Know My Name (Single)
http://www.4shared.c...e_Version_.html

You Know My Name (Fast)
http://www.4shared.c...ame__Fast_.html

You Know My Name (Karaoke )
http://www.4shared.c...e_Version_.html

I have got the following versions of "You Know My Name":
Main Version
Pop Mix
Rock Mix
Main Title
End Title
Instrumental Part

[chriso]

Here are the versions of You Know My Name I have:

You Know My Name (End Titles)
http://www.4shared.c...nd_Titles_.html

You Know My Name (Single)
http://www.4shared.c...e_Version_.html

You Know My Name (Fast)
http://www.4shared.c...ame__Fast_.html

You Know My Name (Karaoke )
http://www.4shared.c...e_Version_.html

I have got the following versions of "You Know My Name":
Main Version
Pop Mix
Rock Mix
Main Title
End Title
Instrumental Part

Could you upload the Main Title version of YKMN, please?

[Lotman]

Interesting - I didn't know a more substantial edition was out there.

Gav, out of interest: your other David Arnold expanded scores, they're probably the usual suspects? Tomorrow Never Dies is still ripped from the DVD isolated score? And TWINE, is that just the two cues added available on Arnold's site?

[Gav]

PM'd.

[Lotman]

From Gav's description (thanks for that!), this 'boot' just seems to be an attempt to fool some Bond fans/completists that it's more comprehensive than the already complete official release.
This has no value whatsoever, since it cuts up the music (and thus the composer's intended complete version) to suit edits in the film. Unless somebody finds lossless versions of the iTunes tracks, there's nothing to add to the Casino Royale score that we don't already have.

[Gav]

This is incorrect, Im afraid.

Casual score fans seem to think that tracks on CD soundtrack cues are definitve and original. This is not true, short film cues are mixed into longer tracks especially for CD release. This makes listening easier. Soundtrack CDs are created to create a good listening experience, not to reflect the film's musical presentation. Take note in QoS for instance - "Time To Get Out" is actually two cues in the movie, but they are combined for the CD release. This mixing is NOT their original format, and they are only done this way to create a good solid opening for the album.

This 2CD of Casino Royale contains film versions of cues. In other words, these film versions have the music as heard in the film, how it was composed FOR the film and not remixed or edited for the commercial CD. The commercial disc has different instrumentation in a few of its tracks (notably African Rundown). This boot has the film versions of these cues. To date, these have not been released anywhere - not even the German bootleg.

It also has the two film versions of the theme song, as well as specially prepared tracks rescored for the US censored version of the film.

This 2CD is the definitive version of the score to date, beating the German pressing and every other boot I have seen. Until you have heard it, you cannot appreciate how different it is to other compilations.

Thanks to all.

[TheSaint]

When it seemed that it might cost more than initially planned, they pulled the plug and didn't transfer the tapes of TMWTGG. There was even a set of 24-track tapes for TSWLM which wasn't even checked out whether its the original score recording or the soundtrack re-recording. Then Lukas Kendall and his usual team produced each soundtrack in under a week time to make it to the strict deadline. They never ever checked for master tapes of MR, OP and AVTAK.

Oh. My. God!

We almost got an extended TMWTGG, the actual TSWLM, and maybe extra stuff on Moonraker? The injustice of it all!

[TGO]

This is incorrect, Im afraid.

Casual score fans seem to think that tracks on CD soundtrack cues are definitve and original. This is not true, short film cues are mixed into longer tracks especially for CD release. This makes listening easier. Soundtrack CDs are created to create a good listening experience, not to reflect the film's musical presentation. Take note in QoS for instance - "Time To Get Out" is actually two cues in the movie, but they are combined for the CD release. This mixing is NOT their original format, and they are only done this way to create a good solid opening for the album.

This 2CD of Casino Royale contains film versions of cues. In other words, these film versions have the music as heard in the film, how it was composed FOR the film and not remixed or edited for the commercial CD. The commercial disc has different instrumentation in a few of its tracks (notably African Rundown). This boot has the film versions of these cues. To date, these have not been released anywhere - not even the German bootleg.

It also has the two film versions of the theme song, as well as specially prepared tracks rescored for the US censored version of the film.

This 2CD is the definitive version of the score to date, beating the German pressing and every other boot I have seen. Until you have heard it, you cannot appreciate how different it is to other compilations.

Thanks to all.

Then how about the bloody proof? Post something on youtube or something.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

Gav, can you PM'd me the You My Name versions that you have, at least the YKMN (Main Title, Film Version) (3:18), please?

Edited by Mr. Arlington Beech, 11 November 2008 - 06:10 AM.

[Bonding for Today]

This is incorrect, Im afraid.

Casual score fans seem to think that tracks on CD soundtrack cues are definitve and original. This is not true, short film cues are mixed into longer tracks especially for CD release. This makes listening easier. Soundtrack CDs are created to create a good listening experience, not to reflect the film's musical presentation. Take note in QoS for instance - "Time To Get Out" is actually two cues in the movie, but they are combined for the CD release. This mixing is NOT their original format, and they are only done this way to create a good solid opening for the album.

This 2CD of Casino Royale contains film versions of cues. In other words, these film versions have the music as heard in the film, how it was composed FOR the film and not remixed or edited for the commercial CD. The commercial disc has different instrumentation in a few of its tracks (notably African Rundown). This boot has the film versions of these cues. To date, these have not been released anywhere - not even the German bootleg.

It also has the two film versions of the theme song, as well as specially prepared tracks rescored for the US censored version of the film.

This 2CD is the definitive version of the score to date, beating the German pressing and every other boot I have seen. Until you have heard it, you cannot appreciate how different it is to other compilations.

Thanks to all.

Then how about the bloody proof? Post something on youtube or something.

Yes, prove it please.

[noah]

This 2CD of Casino Royale contains film versions of cues. In other words, these film versions have the music as heard in the film, how it was composed FOR the film and not remixed or edited for the commercial CD. The commercial disc has different instrumentation in a few of its tracks (notably African Rundown). This boot has the film versions of these cues. To date, these have not been released anywhere - not even the German bootleg.

It also has the two film versions of the theme song, as well as specially prepared tracks rescored for the US censored version of the film.

This 2CD is the definitive version of the score to date, beating the German pressing and every other boot I have seen. Until you have heard it, you cannot appreciate how different it is to other compilations.

Hello to all. Have been checking this site out for months and only just got round to registering. Big thank you to all those who have posted samples & links to downloads etc. Regarding the 2CD version of "Casino Royale",if the version is the same as the 2 CD version I've got then it is indeed "definitive".