Most overrated/underrated Bond film
#181
Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:00 AM
Yes, that's right. I just said that Thunderball is more exciting than Goldfinger even with all the underwater scenes. Sue me.
One of the more underrated films in the franchise is Tomorrow Never Dies. It always gets overshadowed by GoldenEye. Rightfully so in many ways, but I find Tomorrow Never Dies to be an enjoyable entry in the series and Pierce's most comfortable performance in the role. Considering the problems with the script not being finished in time for filming. Spottiswoode didn't do half bad creating a very watchable Bond film.
#182
Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:37 AM
#183
Posted 07 June 2012 - 09:43 AM
Unterrated: Licence to Kill
#184
Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:51 PM
I'd always been under the impression that Terrence Young did that deliberately. The scene between Connery & the helicopter was to have been an homage to Cary Grant & the biplane, as Cary Grant (along w/ James Mason) were originally approached to play the part in Dr. No.
#185
Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:09 PM
Underatted - Tomorrow Never Dies / Quantum of Solace
#186
Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:51 PM
Underrated: Quantum of Solace
#187
Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:08 PM
Underrated: Goldeneye
#188
Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:49 PM
#189
Posted 20 June 2012 - 05:09 PM
Goldfinger is the most overrated film in the franchise. I suppose that I might just feel that way because of the annoyance at seeing it top every "Best of Bond" list that's ever been compiled in the media. Aside from setting the blueprint for the Bond films that followed, it's not that great. It's a good film of course, but definitely overrated. A good chunk of the film is centered on Bond being a prisoner at Goldfinger's ranch. Nothing too exciting for the film that's supposed to be the best of all. That's not to say there aren't any classic elements (Goldfinger is a terrific villain and Oddjob is certainly iconic), but generally speaking, I find Thunderball to be more exciting and From Russia With Love to be the more intriguing story.
I heartily agree. I might add that I don't even like "GOLDFINGER".
#190
Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:57 AM
Too much goes wrong here from the shaky cam, super-quick editing to the lame (and unfunny) Elvis to the so un-Bondian moment of Craig callously dumping Mathis' body in the dumpster to make QOS the masterpiece film that its fans seem to do.
Underrated - Octopussy
Roger Moore is at the top of his game here in his penultimate 007 performance. He gives just the right amount of humor and seriousness (see his confrontation with Orlov on the train which is pitch perfect). The plot is top notch with good lines ("You have a nasty habit of surviving.") and a great deal of suspense. A very enjoyable film that doesn't get its just due.
#191
Posted 23 June 2012 - 12:29 PM
Overrated - Quantum Of Solace
Too much goes wrong here from the shaky cam, super-quick editing to the lame (and unfunny) Elvis to the so un-Bondian moment of Craig callously dumping Mathis' body in the dumpster to make QOS the masterpiece film that its fans seem to do.
C'mon, QoS is far from overrated !
It's an incredibly derided movie, which had a lot to live up to after CR and was severely let down by the writer's strike).
IMO much of the camerawork is superb. It's just the big set-pieces (boat chase and sky dive) where they lost all sense of geography. I think the opening car chase, roof chase, hotel room/balcony fight and climactic set-piece in the hotel are all pretty good action scenes. The stylised Opera confrontation is one of the best in the franchise (IMO).
I agree that Elvis was a malformed character. Perhaps the strike happened before this was addressed, but as things stand the concept of a henchman who serves purely as comic-relief backfired. An insight into his sadistic, bullying tendencies would've upped his presence sufficiently, making sense of his use to Greene. Also some development of his unspoken, but pretty obvious adoration/crush on Greene would've given him that 3-dimensionality that is too often absent in Bond-Henchmen.
Or perhaps Greene was Bi...! Some work on that could've yielded a more interesting and original relationship there. how would this have effected their interactions with Bond, whom they may have found attractive? Admittedly very tricky territory, but without the writer's strike perhaps it could've been tackled well by someone of Haggis' calibre. Ultimately though Elvis was a missed opportunity.
As for Craig callously dumping Mathis' body in the dumpster being un-Bondian!!! Have you read the books?
Bond often reflects that he expects to die a fairly anonymous death by around the age of 40 - few agents ever making beyond that and if so then being trapped behind a desk. Indeed, in the books there's a sense that his bravado, his lack of fear emanates from his acceptance of a short life expectancy (as alluded to in CR's conversation with M, in her apartment when he tells her not to worry about her misgivings after promoting him since Double-0's have a short life expectancy).
In the novel of CR there are conversations between Bond and Mathis about an agent's lengevity that are laden with the cynical realism on display in QoS' dumpster scene. This scene pays tribute to those sentiments in Fleming's CR very well; it doesn't pull it's punches to soften Bond up, it shows the realist, the double-0 forming.
If a government sanctioned killer can't be dispassionate (i.e. callus) when necessary, then he'll be no good at his job, as Bond tells Vesper over dinner after the poker game in CR. Perhaps it wasn't necessary for Bond to put Mathis' body in a dumpster, but it was a clear statement to himself, as it was to the audience, that Bond is changing, learning not to take things so personally, such as Vesper's death perhaps. This is what makes him Sardonic and provides motivation for the 'one-liners' so they're not just contrived 'one-liners', but are Bond's way of dealing with the horrible death and destruction - shrugging it off in what seems a heartless, callus fashion. Putting Mathis in a dumpster may seem callus, but it is a Sardonic action - just like one of his one-liners, a cruel, bad joke that Bond learns to utilise in order to keep at bay the madness and depression that might otherwise accompany such endless death.
He is accepting that this is his lot - to be in such a profession he must expect death, so best not to become too attached. Mathis saw it that way and so, now, does Bond. What more fitting way for the writer's to illustrate these hard lesson's - that It's a dirty job - than a dumpster?
Underrated - Octopussy
Roger Moore is at the top of his game here in his penultimate 007 performance. He gives just the right amount of humor and seriousness (see his confrontation with Orlov on the train which is pitch perfect). The plot is top notch with good lines ("You have a nasty habit of surviving.") and a great deal of suspense. A very enjoyable film that doesn't get its just due.
I agree that Octopussy is better than memory serves. However, it's far from perfect - including possibly the worst Bond moment in the whole franchise: Bond Tarzaning through the jungle on vines yelling a'la the famous ape-man.
The title track may have been 'All Time High', but this was Bond's 'All Time Low'...
Add to that Bond's credulity being ever more strained by the wonderful Roger Moore's un-Bondian age and it's sadly, but firmly trapped in the 'what a waste of Fleming material' category
If only Brocalli had taken a chance on James Brolin, who'd spent a night in a london hotel preparing to begin shooting Octopussy the following day, having been cast in the role (sourced from the DVD). However, Roger made a call to Brocalli that night and said he'd except the pay check (Moore had wanted 'More'). Even if Brolin hadn't worked in the role we'd now have a far more interesting chapter of Bond to look back on, akin to Lazenby's, rather than just Moore of the same dying format. IMO Brolin would've been pretty good: See Capricorn One (1977) and High Risk (1981).
Octopussy did have excellent villains in the shape of Louis Jordan's cold blooded aristocrat and Berkoff's war hungry military psychopath. The buzz-saw Sikh was pretty good too.
Edited by Odd Jobbies, 23 June 2012 - 12:39 PM.
#192
Posted 23 June 2012 - 12:52 PM
#193
Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:45 AM
We all know it's iconic and it's certainly a good Bond, but I really prefer DN, FRWL, TB, & YOLT over it.
Most Underrated: Die Another Day
The movie is pure fun up until the last 20 minutes when Bond and Jinx leave Iceland. Yeah, the CGI was atrocious and Halle Berry's character wasn't particularly well-writen. However, Brosnan is fully into the role and the action sequences (hovercrafts, Aston Martins, sword fights) are exciting without being too "out there" like some of the scenes in Moonraker.
#194
Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:16 AM
The movie is pure fun up until the last 20 minutes when Bond and Jinx leave Iceland.
Actually, I can't stand the Iceland sequence in DAD. I do enjoy the rest of the film.
#195
Posted 30 June 2012 - 05:11 PM
Most underrated: Tomorrow Never Dies - YOLT of the 90's, but not so OTT as its blueprints. Carver is actually a decent villain and even believable.
Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 30 June 2012 - 05:11 PM.
#196
Posted 01 July 2012 - 02:50 AM
As for TND, I don't know about underrated, but I do enjoy it - always have - possibly the best of the 90s Bonds (all three of them).
#197
Posted 01 July 2012 - 04:17 PM
Thought I still cannot fathom to this day, why The Man With The Golden Gun gets so much abuse, I'm amazed at how
the whistle annoys everybody, it's something I've never really paid a lot of attention to.
#198
Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:25 PM
#199
Posted 01 July 2012 - 09:44 PM
Oddly TMWTGG doesnt faze me neither. Octopussy is really the most inconsequential movie, nothing really stands out, good or bad. This by itself is sorta positive.
#200
Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:47 AM
#201
Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:26 PM
Edited by Golden Claw, 03 July 2012 - 06:26 PM.
#202
Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:34 PM
Most Underrated: Die Another Day, The action is well shot, It has the best pre-credits scene of any Bond film and the whole film has good entertainment value.
The only bad thing about the movie is Jinx and the theme song.
#203
Posted 01 August 2012 - 08:27 PM
Most underrated : both Daylights and On her Majesty's secret service.
#204
Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:08 PM
James Brolin wouldn't have fit. As Tom Mankiewicz pointed out, in the release of LALD, he said that the actor playing James Bond HAS to be British otherwise it simply wouldn't work. He compared it to having a British actor play the lead in a John Wayne movie.
#205
Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:12 PM
Isn't Daylight a Sylvester Stallone movie?Most overrated : Goldfinger. Most underrated : both Daylights and On her Majesty's secret service.
#206
Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:29 PM
Octopussy is just perfect for me, excellent score, fun movie, great characters, some of the best locations also.
Thought I still cannot fathom to this day, why The Man With The Golden Gun gets so much abuse, I'm amazed at how
the whistle annoys everybody, it's something I've never really paid a lot of attention to.
TMWTGG evokes mixed emotions.
Scaramanga is, in my opinion, one of the coolest of all the villains. The compromise for that prestige is having to put up with the midget. (if Nick Nack were to be some mysterious, vicious killer that no one saw but everyone feared, It might've added an element of sophisticated danger to the piece, instread of an oddity, freak show.)
The struggle of Andrea Anders is deep & compelling. You almost get the sense that she KNOWS she's doomed for drawing OO7 into Scaramanga's world. Whereas Mary Goodnight's presence as Bond's assistant makes his mission HARDER, not easier.
I think Lt. Hip was under utilized. If the writers were trying to tap into that "Tiger Tanaka" reationship. with Bond. I think they missed their mark.
The sight of JW Pepper in Bankok. just pi55ed me off. I felt that, although splendid in LALD as a nice offset to the villains (all of whome were black), Sherriff Pepper was as out of place in this film as a rhino in a ballet.
Although the film itself was timely & clever, I absolutely hate the title song (It's a close 2nd to Madonna's DAD rubbish).
#207
Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:34 PM
Underrated: Diamonds Are Forever: Entertaining plot, sexy Bond girl, funny dialogue, Great villain, some iconic scenes, great soundtrack, I admit I love everything about DAF.
#208
Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:50 PM
1. Goldfinger
2. Casino Royale
3. For Your Eyes Only
While GF and CR are excellent movies they are not the best of the bunch which is claimed by many critics and fans. GF is iconic but is outmatched by FRWL in terms of intrigue and espionage and by TB in terms of adopting the formula into an epic spectacle. TB also includes the femme fatale and feels more exotic and delivers a spectacular widescreen grandness. FYEO is very good and I like that it returns to a spy story but in some ways it has moments in which it feels too pedestrian in the same as Moonraker could feel too outlandish. A balance which I think is contrived in Octopussy.
UNDERRATED
- by the public
1. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
2. The Living Daylights
3. Licence to Kill
For the general public the Dalton/Lazenby adventures are almost rogue episodes. They are not aware of the sheer Flemingness of both actors who bring the spirit of the books to the screen as no other safe for the Connery/Terence Young entries. By forgetting them or, even worse, regarding them as inferior to the others because both actors had short careers in the role is ignorance in the most irritating way. Thankfully, most fans know how to appreciated Timothy and George.
- by fans
1. The World Is Not Enough
2. Octopussy
3. The Man with the Golden Gun
TWINE often gets a bad rap, for me it has splendid action and a good character driven story. Brosnan delivers a mature performance, Sophie Marceau is one of the best actresses to feature in a Bond movie and it shows, the flamboyant Zukovsky is back, and the Z8, Q's goodbye, the boat chase, even Arnold's score all contribute to what I consider to be Brosnan's second best outing. TMWTGG is a low-key detective story much in the same way as Dr. No. Though it has some silly parts the villain is so damn good and the girls are so ridiculously hot that I don't really mind some of the lesser moments. OP, as I said earlier, is in my mind a movie that finds the right balance between serious Cold War espionage and exotic fun.
#209
Posted 09 August 2012 - 07:07 AM
Overrated
1960s - Goldfinger. It's in everybody's "favourite Bond film" list, even people who have never seen a Bond film or critics who would be mortified if people knew they had seen a Bond film. It's got the iconic golden girl, the Aston Martin, the henchman with the hat, but once Bond has infiltrated Goldfinger's operation he has not very much to do but wait for the moment to undermine it.
1970s - The Spy Who Loved Me - it seemed an improvement on what went before but at times it seems like a Bond compilation album. The gadget laden car (GF), the ski stunt (OHMSS), the villain's HQ (YOLT), and so on. Given the number of writers who worked on it, might an opportunity to do something radical with Bond have been lost?
1980s - Never Say Never Again. Here I'm looking at the reaction to NSNA at that time. It's got the "real" Bond in it, Connery, so it must be brilliant. It wasn't.
1990s - GoldenEye - a sense of relief that Bond was back after six years, and that bungee stunt at the start, probably had audiences and critics alike more bowled over by it than they would if it had been part of the one-Bond-every-two-years cycle. It's very good but not outstanding.
2000s - Casino Royale - there's an argument for saying that CR is the most overrated of the lot. Nominated for BAFTA best film and so on. It is an outstanding Bond film though, but not perfect. Much of the action is front loaded, almost as if the film makers wanted to get the audience hooked before the Fleming story involving a card game gets going.
Underrated
1960s - OHMSS - its reputation improves year by year, but still shamefully underrated by those who believe that if Connery or Moore isn't in it, it can't be any good.
1970s - Live And Let Die - a film remembered these days more for its theme tune than anything else. Combines action, humour, some striking and disturbing imagery involving voodoo and a good opening performance by Roger Moore as Bond.
1980s- The Dalton films. In 1987, The Living Daylights was the best Bond in years, with Dalton lauded for his performance. Licence To Kill caused more controversy but Dalton and villain Robert Davi were both praised. Today? It's as if they had never happened - a two paragraph review of TLD in the Radio Times was cursorily dismissive, saying Dalton had "phoned in" his performance as Bond. How times have changed.
1990s - The World Is Not Enough - a flawed attempt to do something slightly different with Bond. The villains certainly are "different" - Elektra King, who is a either a coldly calculating bitch or mad as a loon (and if she is, did a kidnapping send her that way?), and a "typical Bond bad guy" who is doing it all for "love".
2000s - Quantum Of Solace - I didn't like the "shaky cam" bits either. But I wonder if, like OHMSS and the two Dalton films, it will be a rediscovered "classic" in years to come. There's some beautiful location shots, a villain's plot that seems more credible than most, and it contnues the development of Craig's Bond from raw Double-O to "Bond, James Bond"
Final point - I wonder where Skyfall will figure on this thread? A few months from now, we may know!
#210
Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:07 PM
TSWLM: Yes, it was very big and impressive looking, but way too silly, predictable and OTT.
Goldeneye: I never got the love for this one. Except for the two villains (Famke Janssen is one of the best EVER!) the plot was formulaic and some of the action scenes were too ridiculous to be believed. It didn't help that Pierce Brosnan spent most of his time mugging and winking at the camera.
Underrated:
Octopussy: Yes, it had......problems, but despite it being overly long and buried in a thick, gooey layer of camp, there was a solid spy story underneath it all.
LTK: First Bond movie I saw in the theater and it still stuck with me. Dalton was a near perfect personification of Fleming's character.
TWINE: Overlong, and very flawed, but an interesting attempt at something different.
QOS: Never got the overwhelming hate for this one. Good plot, good character moments. Nothing wrong with it that a little script polish and a tweak in editing couldn't fix.